how frequent are break and runs?

[kyle]

I'm new to one pocket, I've played maybe 15 games (with the only person I could talk into playing). Since I've never seen anyone of calibur (or at all) play before I was wondering how often a top player gets out off the break.

[NH Steve]

I'm new to one pocket, I've played maybe 15 games (with the only person I could talk into playing). Since I've never seen anyone of calibur (or at all) play before I was wondering how often a top player gets out off the break.
Although the guy that breaks wins games at about a 6 to 4 statistical clip over the non-breaking player, I would venture a guess that if you are talking only about each player's very first inning at the table, it might actually be more common for the non-breaking player to run eight and out off the other player's break than for the breaker to immediately go eight and out -- 'cuz the breaker has to both pocket a ball on the break, and then go on to run the 8 and out, while the other guy just needs a bank or a leaked ball or a dead one to get started -- which together are more common than making a ball on the break!!

Just to pocket a ball on the break might happen I'd guess about 1 in 30 to 50 games or so -- but it seems to run in streaks, depending on the table and how they are racking and breaking. There's one Accu-stats tape (Pagulyan vs Parica at Grady's 2000 event in Maine) where IIRC Alex makes a ball on the break 3 out of 4 breaks, and Parica makes one once as well. (Still that match went hill-hill and came down to Parica making the slightest of mistakes while leading in the final game!)

[yobagua]

Which leads to the question. Do you actually try to pocket a ball on the break or concentrate on playing a good safe with the cue ball ending up on the long rail. I know guys who focus on making a ball only therefore letting their CB loose. It works sometimes on a forgivable table and other times it just lets your opponent see too much of your side of the table with the CB.

[Troy]

I've run 8 and out from the break once or maybe twice in about 6 years.
On my break I shoot for the safe and make a ball maybe once every 10 breaks if I'm lucky.

Troy

[NH Steve]

Which leads to the question. Do you actually try to pocket a ball on the break or concentrate on playing a good safe with the cue ball ending up on the long rail. I know guys who focus on making a ball only therefore letting their CB loose. It works sometimes on a forgivable table and other times it just lets your opponent see too much of your side of the table with the CB.
I'm with you on this one -- if I'm really trying to make a ball on the break, I change my break a little (going for a little thinner hit on the head ball, and maybe just a touch lighter hit).

Hey, if any of you all know a special technique for breaking that maximizes your chance to make the corner ball without compromising the safety of your break, I'm all ears :) :)

[SactownTom]

The only time I've seen a ball made on the break (more often than 1 in 30-50 breaks) is on NEW cloth.

I don't know of any Secrets, but, the tighter the last 5 balls are, the better the chances of making a ball move towards your hole.

How many times have you tried the 2nd and 3rd ball break? I practiced this break for about 2 months and then went back to the 1st and 2nd ball.

The results of the 2nd and 3rd ball seemed at first to be somewhat interesting. The Cue ball did go closer to the opponent's hole, but it also kept the wing ball from going that way also. I used the same inside english as you would for the 1st and 2nd ball hit. The cue ball also came out away from the side rail further then the traditional break.

Just some thougths.

[Keith McCready]

Hey, if any of you all know a special technique for breaking that maximizes your chance to make the corner ball without compromising the safety of your break, I'm all ears :) :)

I agree with SactownTom about making a ball on the break more often with new felt.

Another thing that I've had pretty good results with, once I get the speed of the table down, is the kick break. The only time I do it is on my own money because my backer's heart can't take it. :eek:

I hit the cue-ball into the rail with a little pinch of a downward draw left-hand english (if I am breaking for the right-hand pocket). I aim in between the the two diamonds, and the cue-ball will reverse back off the rail and hit the second or third ball in the stack and bury itself in the pack. The key to this break is mastering the speed.

There are times when I do make a ball on the break when I hit it good. Once you get the speed down, if you don't pocket a ball on the break, three or four balls will roll towards your hole, and then your opponent will be pushing up daisies, without a shot. He will have to kick his way out to get out of it or take a scratch. :p

[suki]

How odd I would come home and read this thread about running out in one pocket and the times you make a ball on the break. The following is what happened today while practicing with my good friend who is an excellent one pocket player.
I broke and made a ball on the break but could only get one more ball, my opponent made two balls when I left him a bank. We traded safes then he found a combo to make a ball and he proceeded to run out.
The next game was his break and he made a ball on the break and proceeded to run out. Since we are just practicing we always see how many we can run so he proceeded to keep running the balls. Now keep in mind I have a ball near my hole on the end rail and there is a ball up table on his side about 12 inches from the end rail. Well he runs out the next seven balls for a total of 21 in a row. How did he make the ball by my hole? He kicked behind it, cut it in and the cue ball went up table and got behind the last ball for a tough cut to make in his hole. He cut it in along the rail getting by the side titty which can be difficult at times.
The story is not over.
For the hell of it he broke again to see what would happen. I gave him a perfect rack, he broke and lo and behold he made one on the break again.
He gets a shot agian makes a ball but the only shot he has is a thin cut and let the cue ball hit the back and hope for a shot or try to hit two balls to the right and break those two up. Well with all the razzing and excitement he over cut the ball and missed.
So 23 balls in a row in a one pocket game. I am no youngster and I have never seen that many in a row before. That would be a record to me.
It was amazing.
There were two witnesses to this feat.
The cloth was about 3 months old. Good shape

[kyle]

Which leads to the question. Do you actually try to pocket a ball on the break or concentrate on playing a good safe with the cue ball ending up on the long rail. I know guys who focus on making a ball only therefore letting their CB loose. It works sometimes on a forgivable table and other times it just lets your opponent see too much of your side of the table with the CB.
The times I've have played I've used a safe break but a few times I managed to pocket a ball. I use the second ball skimming the apex. So far I think most of my breaks have worked out pretty good besides a couple of scratches(into opponents pocket) that ended up pretty safe anyways.

[lfigueroa]

I'm with you on this one -- if I'm really trying to make a ball on the break, I change my break a little (going for a little thinner hit on the head ball, and maybe just a touch lighter hit).

Hey, if any of you all know a special technique for breaking that maximizes your chance to make the corner ball without compromising the safety of your break, I'm all ears :) :)

On an Accu-Stats 2003 DCC tape, Dee Adkins vs. Scotty Frost, Adkins uses a new break he said he learned from Cory Duel. He puts the cue ball on the string, one diamond out from the side and hits the second ball vs. grazing the first ball. He said he makes a lot of balls on the break this a way and does in fact make one during the match. I played around with it after watching the tape and it does seem to move the corner ball towards the pocket better than the conventional break. When the balls are racking well and I'm feeling jiggy with it, I'll use it. But I recommend playing around with it in practice before using it in a “live fire” situation.

[RileysDad]

One of the Accustat tapes with Alex Pagulan has each player making a ball on the break in 4 or 5 consegutive games. Most amazing.

And even these top players, on new cloth, didn't run all the way out more than once in a match.

A run of 8 right off the break is REALLY hard and I don't think I have ever seen it happen.

I would agree the the player who shoots second has a much greater change of running 8 and out than the breaking player.

Cheers,

RD