What's The Correct Play?

[sappo]

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ATxl4Easr4FLpl4JUDV4PLhT3Qcpx4Rdvx@Here's a position i was in today. I have pocket A and i need 2 balls. My opponent plays about 2 balls better than me. He is a very good banker and he kicks very well. It is my turn. I lost this game because i failed to execute properly the shot i selected. I would like to hear from our members the shot that they would choose and their reasoning for selecting that shot. By the way the 6 ball and the 1 ball are frozen and the cue ball does pass the 6 ball to the 1 ball.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ATxl4Easr4FLpl4JUDV4PLhT3Qcpx4Rdvx@Here's a position i was in today. I have pocket A and i need 2 balls. My opponent plays about 2 balls better than me. He is a very good banker and he kicks very well. It is my turn. I lost this game because i failed to execute properly the shot i selected. I would like to hear from our members the shot that they would choose and their reasoning for selecting that shot. By the way the 6 ball and the 1 ball are frozen and the cue ball does pass the 6 ball to the 1 ball. If you need two balls and that must mean he needs 3 balls. Is that correct? I would bank the 5 ball and kick the cue ball over to my side of the table. And I might even get a cut shot on the ten ball to win the game. And if the ten ball goes to my side of the table I wouldleave the ten their and shoot the 6 ball to my side of the table and leave the cue ball froze a dimond and a half by pocket b and I hope he kicks at his one ball and makes it or i WILL MAKE IT FOR HIM AND LEAVE HIM ON THE RAIL FROZE. aND HE WILL LEAVE ME A SHOT SHOOTING AT ONE OF THE BALLS ON MY SIDE OF THE TABLE. But youre first shot is the key. And I would bank the 5 ball and kick the 10 ball to my side of the table and leave the cue ball were the ten is and shoot the 6 ball away from his pocket andleave the cue ball one dimond and a half froze on his side of the table by pocket b. And I would be in great shape to win unless he needs one ball than I would reevaluate the whole pattern.

[wincardona]

If you need two balls and that must mean he needs 3 balls. Is that correct? I would bank the 5 ball and kick the cue ball over to my side of the table. And I might even get a cut shot on the ten ball to win the game. And if the ten ball goes to my side of the table I wouldleave the ten their and shoot the 6 ball to my side of the table and leave the cue ball froze a dimond and a half by pocket b and I hope he kicks at his one ball and makes it or i WILL MAKE IT FOR HIM AND LEAVE HIM ON THE RAIL FROZE. aND HE WILL LEAVE ME A SHOT SHOOTING AT ONE OF THE BALLS ON MY SIDE OF THE TABLE. But youre first shot is the key. And I would bank the 5 ball and kick the 10 ball to my side of the table and leave the cue ball were the ten is and shoot the 6 ball away from his pocket andleave the cue ball one dimond and a half froze on his side of the table by pocket b. And I would be in great shape to win unless he needs one ball than I would reevaluate the whole pattern.
That's fine providing the angle he has on the five is natural to kick the ten. What if the angle sends him around the ten, than what do you do?

[wincardona]

That's fine providing the angle he has on the five is natural to kick the ten. What if the angle sends him around the ten, than what do you do?
If i'm the weaker player and the angle I have in regard to banking the five sends me around the ten I would two rail the one possibly into the five and draw the cue ball into or near the six. That shot must be hit with the speed to controll the one ball,repositioning it on my side of the table,which would give me a better position and the first move.

[SJDinPHX]

If i'm the weaker player and the angle I have in regard to banking the five sends me around the ten I would two rail the one possibly into the five and draw the cue ball into or near the six. That shot must be hit with the speed to controll the one ball,repositioning it on my side of the table,which would give me a better position and the first move.

I said "I quit" !!!! I'm still steaming over my last bad game. Now we have to factor in players skills too ? :eek: (just kidding sappo)

"Real Balls Dick"

[Fast Lenny]

I would be conservative and bank the 5 to my side and put the rock behind the 1 ball. :cool:

[NH Steve]

I would be conservative and bank the 5 to my side and put the rock behind the 1 ball. :cool:
If the table is a tough table, or if I was feeling uncomfortable with banking the 5 to make it, then your simple safety would be my choice also. If the pockets are at all generous, I would surely shoot the 5, becuase this is a super sweet banking angle. A decent banker, on a table they are comfortable on (betting something they are comfortable with :) ) ought to make that cross corner a pretty high percentage of the time -- I'm thinking maybe 80% or more. Having the 10 in the natural path to bump the back of it with the cue ball makes it the bank a very attractive option.

I would say these are the two best options -- conservative or aggressive based on how the table is playing and how you are feeling about the intangible game factors.

[gbru]

If the table is a tough table, or if I was feeling uncomfortable with banking the 5 to make it, then your simple safety would be my choice also. If the pockets are at all generous, I would surely shoot the 5, becuase this is a super sweet banking angle. A decent banker, on a table they are comfortable on (betting something they are comfortable with :) ) ought to make that cross corner a pretty high percentage of the time -- I'm thinking maybe 80% or more. Having the 10 in the natural path to bump the back of it with the cue ball makes it the bank a very attractive option.

I would say these are the two best options -- conservative or aggressive based on how the table is playing and how you are feeling about the intangible game factors.



I set the shot up on my Diamond table which is very generous with 4 5/8" pockets. I was succesful 5 times at banking the 5 ball. Only 1 out of 5 shots did I get a bad carom off the 10 which sent the cue ball to the middle of the table.

On tighter pockets I would send the 5 to my side and stick the cue behind the 1 ball. I tried that 4 times and really liked the results because he now had a very difficult time defending aginst the 5 on my side. Especially being jam frozen to the 1 ball.

[wincardona]

If the table is a tough table, or if I was feeling uncomfortable with banking the 5 to make it, then your simple safety would be my choice also. If the pockets are at all generous, I would surely shoot the 5, becuase this is a super sweet banking angle. A decent banker, on a table they are comfortable on (betting something they are comfortable with :) ) ought to make that cross corner a pretty high percentage of the time -- I'm thinking maybe 80% or more. Having the 10 in the natural path to bump the back of it with the cue ball makes it the bank a very attractive option.

I would say these are the two best options -- conservative or aggressive based on how the table is playing and how you are feeling about the intangible game factors.

Lets assume that the angle on the five ball bank sends you around the ten ball,being the weaker player you're really gambling banking the five. Banking the five to your side of the table and repositioning the cue ball behind the one is a very good option,providing there is enough room between the five and the corner pocket to controll the cue ball. Option three banking the one ball two cushions off the five is also a very good option,and it also carries a chance of pocketing the one ball and winning the game. If the five and the one ball are positioned a certain way ,winning from there is a possibility.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I set the shot up on my Diamond table which is very generous with 4 5/8" pockets. I was succesful 5 times at banking the 5 ball. Only 1 out of 5 shots did I get a bad carom off the 10 which sent the cue ball to the middle of the table.

On tighter pockets I would send the 5 to my side and stick the cue behind the 1 ball. I tried that 4 times and really liked the results because he now had a very difficult time defending aginst the 5 on my side. Especially being jam frozen to the 1 ball. Nobody has said how many balls does his opponent need? And if you shoot the 5 ball across and but him behind the 1 ball. You give him a good bank on the 10 ball and he can leave you on the end rail and if he makes the 10 ball then he will have a crose corner bank on the 5 ball and he will have all three balls by his pocket. How do you like it know. And if he doesnt make the 10 ball on a bank and leaves it by his pocket. his opponent will be shooting at a give up shoot the length of the table and if he misses its a dead sell out. Banking the 5 is the correct shot no matter how tough the pockets. And if you hit the ten ball foll in the face you will have a free bank on the ten ball and leaving the cue ball down the end rail. And if you hit the back side of the ten you should end up with a cut shot it you make the 5 ball.

[sappo]

Thanks to everyone for their quick replies. just a few points: Artie you are correct my opponent did need 3 balls. The pockets are somewhat receptive, not too wide but surely not real tight. My 1st choice was to bank the 5 and run he cb into the 10 but i felt my percent to execute that shot wasnt that good that i shouldnt risk the game on that shot. i choose to bank the 5 to my side and try to stick the cb ontop of the 1 ball. unfortunately i hit the shot a little soft and i let him see the 5 ball which he quickly banked in and was out from there. Billy, i didnt look at banking the 1 ball into the 5 ball and drawing back to the freeze him. i like that because at my skill level i think i could do that well and i also like that im clearing 2 balls from his pocket area. Thanks again for all your imput. Sappo

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Lets assume that the angle on the five ball bank sends you around the ten ball,being the weaker player you're really gambling banking the five. Banking the five to your side of the table and repositioning the cue ball behind the one is a very good option,providing there is enough room between the five and the corner pocket to controll the cue ball. Option three banking the one ball two cushions off the five is also a very good option,and it also carries a chance of pocketing the one ball and winning the game. If the five and the one ball are positioned a certain way ,winning from there is a possibility. If you have a control problem with shooting the 5 ball accross the table and putting the cue ball behind the one ball . I would recomend you dont shoot no other shoots. Practice that shoot you didnt execute and shoot it 50 times tell you got it down and understand what you have to do to but the cue ball behind the one ball. You must learn to execute that shot before you go any further. That is a mmust learn shot in one pocket. So shoot it 50 times and let me no when you got it down pat. And then you can practice some of the other shote players have said and given you. But thats your pool lession for the day, Correct youre mistake tell you can execute it 10 times in a row. And then you will have learnd. And dont get discouraged. Belive in youself.

[wincardona]

Nobody has said how many balls does his opponent need? And if you shoot the 5 ball across and but him behind the 1 ball. You give him a good bank on the 10 ball and he can leave you on the end rail and if he makes the 10 ball then he will have a crose corner bank on the 5 ball and he will have all three balls by his pocket. How do you like it know. And if he doesnt make the 10 ball on a bank and leaves it by his pocket. his opponent will be shooting at a give up shoot the length of the table and if he misses its a dead sell out. Banking the 5 is the correct shot no matter how tough the pockets. And if you hit the ten ball foll in the face you will have a free bank on the ten ball and leaving the cue ball down the end rail. And if you hit the back side of the ten you should end up with a cut shot it you make the 5 ball.
Artie, if the angle on the five ball bank sends you into the back of the ten ball,or the side of the ten ball it's a no brainer,bank the five.But keep in mind that the player at the table is a weaker player that may not have a very good feel of the cue ball if he wants to consider banking the five as one of his options.Option 2 banking the five on his side of the table positioning the cue ball behind the one ball is really not the correct shot for the reasons that you described,especially if you are the weaker player that may not have the ability and the confidence to shoot the five after your opponent banks the ten ball.Option 3 two rail the one under and off the five is the best option for several reasons.#1 You will not give the better player a bank on the ten ball #2 you will be moving two balls from his side of the table #3 he will not have an agressive move with his shot,meaning that you will have yet another chance to improve your position when you come back to the table. and finally #4 you have a chance to pocket the one ball off the five.

[gbru]

Nobody has said how many balls does his opponent need? And if you shoot the 5 ball across and but him behind the 1 ball. You give him a good bank on the 10 ball and he can leave you on the end rail and if he makes the 10 ball then he will have a crose corner bank on the 5 ball and he will have all three balls by his pocket. How do you like it know. And if he doesnt make the 10 ball on a bank and leaves it by his pocket. his opponent will be shooting at a give up shoot the length of the table and if he misses its a dead sell out. Banking the 5 is the correct shot no matter how tough the pockets. And if you hit the ten ball foll in the face you will have a free bank on the ten ball and leaving the cue ball down the end rail. And if you hit the back side of the ten you should end up with a cut shot it you make the 5 ball.


Exactly Artie! I set it up again and the 10 ball definately becomes a threat for a bank. The first time I set it up I had put the 10 a little closer to the rail than the diagram (by mistake). Being closer to the rail makes banking the 10 more difficult because of the kiss.

When set up exactly like the diagram I concur the 5 bank, cue into the 10 is the shot.

A 1/2 inch here and there makes a big difference!

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Exactly Artie! I set it up again and the 10 ball definately becomes a threat for a bank. The first time I set it up I had put the 10 a little closer to the rail than the diagram (by mistake). Being closer to the rail makes banking the 10 more difficult because of the kiss.

When set up exactly like the diagram I concur the 5 bank, cue into the 10 is the shot.

A 1/2 inch here and there makes a big difference! Practice and learning will teach you all the things you want to no.

[wincardona]

Artie, if the angle on the five ball bank sends you into the back of the ten ball,or the side of the ten ball it's a no brainer,bank the five.But keep in mind that the player at the table is a weaker player that may not have a very good feel of the cue ball if he wants to consider banking the five as one of his options.Option 2 banking the five on his side of the table positioning the cue ball behind the one ball is really not the correct shot for the reasons that you described,especially if you are the weaker player that may not have the ability and the confidence to shoot the five after your opponent banks the ten ball.Option 3 two rail the one under and off the five is the best option for several reasons.#1 You will not give the better player a bank on the ten ball #2 you will be moving two balls from his side of the table #3 he will not have an agressive move with his shot,meaning that you will have yet another chance to improve your position when you come back to the table. and finally #4 you have a chance to pocket the one ball off the five.
By the way we haven't heard anything from "no balls Dick" in regard to this shot.

[gbru]

Artie, if the angle on the five ball bank sends you into the back of the ten ball,or the side of the ten ball it's a no brainer,bank the five.But keep in mind that the player at the table is a weaker player that may not have a very good feel of the cue ball if he wants to consider banking the five as one of his options.Option 2 banking the five on his side of the table positioning the cue ball behind the one ball is really not the correct shot for the reasons that you described,especially if you are the weaker player that may not have the ability and the confidence to shoot the five after your opponent banks the ten ball.Option 3 two rail the one under and off the five is the best option for several reasons.#1 You will not give the better player a bank on the ten ball #2 you will be moving two balls from his side of the table #3 he will not have an agressive move with his shot,meaning that you will have yet another chance to improve your position when you come back to the table. and finally #4 you have a chance to pocket the one ball off the five.


Billy.......I tried your shot banking the 1 into the 5 a couple of times with not too good results. The angle into the 1 just seems to be too flat to be able to kiss the 5 ball and stick the cue behind the 6. If the cue was a little further away from the 6 I think the shot would work a lot better.

My feel is a little weaker on those shots than you and some of the more seasoned players.

[SJDinPHX]

By the way we haven't heard anything from "no balls Dick" in regard to this shot.

Yes you have. See post 5 this thread, and last page on the other shot. Geez Billy, do I have to show you everything. :D

Quitter Dick

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Billy.......I tried your shot banking the 1 into the 5 a couple of times with not too good results. The angle into the 1 just seems to be too flat to be able to kiss the 5 ball and stick the cue behind the 6. If the cue was a little further away from the 6 I think the shot would work a lot better.

My feel is a little weaker on those shots than you and some of the more seasoned players. Keep shooting it and practicing it dont give up tell you learn it. Teach yourself stong positive reinforcment. And dont worry so much about the five ball get the cueball in the correct position. Keep doing it and let me no when you feel comftrable with the shoot and you will learn to execute the shot. Keep practicing. If I told you that I would give you 1 thousand dollares to learn it. Do you think you would learn to do it? I think you would learn to do it plus you would do it a lot quicker. Because giveing people rewords for them to learn somethingGives them incent tive. But you need to give youseft that incentive because you want to learn and become a good player.That should be your incentive and reward.

[wincardona]

Billy.......I tried your shot banking the 1 into the 5 a couple of times with not too good results. The angle into the 1 just seems to be too flat to be able to kiss the 5 ball and stick the cue behind the 6. If the cue was a little further away from the 6 I think the shot would work a lot better.

My feel is a little weaker on those shots than you and some of the more seasoned players.

Sometimes it's hard to get a good feel on how balls are positioned on the wei layout,but you do grasp the concept of the shot. Nevertheless keep in mind what Artie is emphasing and that is to concentrate on controlling the cue ball which ever shot you choose.

[sappo]

Keep shooting it and practicing it dont give up tell you learn it. Teach yourself stong positive reinforcment. And dont worry so much about the five ball get the cueball in the correct position. Keep doing it and let me no when you feel comftrable with the shoot and you will learn to execute the shot. Keep practicing. If I told you that I would give you 1 thousand dollares to learn it. Do you think you would learn to do it? I think you would learn to do it plus you would do it a lot quicker. Because giveing people rewords for them to learn somethingGives them incent tive. But you need to give youseft that incentive because you want to learn and become a good player.That should be your incentive and reward.
Hi Artie,i worked hard on that shot today and i feel confident i can hide the cue ball 80-85% of the time. ill get better at it as the week goes on. hey about that thousand dollars....... thanks Sappo

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Keep shooting it and practicing it dont give up tell you learn it. Teach yourself stong positive reinforcment. And dont worry so much about the five ball get the cueball in the correct position. Keep doing it and let me no when you feel comftrable with the shoot and you will learn to execute the shot. Keep practicing. If I told you that I would give you 1 thousand dollares to learn it. Do you think you would learn to do it? I think you would learn to do it plus you would do it a lot quicker. Because giveing people rewords for them to learn somethingGives them incent tive. But you need to give youseft that incentive because you want to learn and become a good player.That should be your incentive and reward.
Hi Artie,i worked hard on that shot today and i feel confident i can hide the cue ball 80-85% of the time. ill get better at it as the week goes on. hey about that thousand dollars....... thanks Sappo Keep practicing and you will do it as good as the champions and better.Stick and stay and make it pay. Its you against the game.

[newfosgatesucks]

I'm torn between you and Artie's choices. In the real world I would need a look at the 5 to decide. If the 5 doesnt lay, I go with your shot. If the 5 lays for the tick on the ten I say its the strongest move. It REALLY depends on the cloths age, whether the curve happens just before or right on the ten....
I would be conservative and bank the 5 to my side and put the rock behind the 1 ball. :cool:

[blackeee]

I'm torn between you and Artie's choices. In the real world I would need a look at the 5 to decide. If the 5 doesnt lay, I go with your shot. If the 5 lays for the tick on the ten I say its the strongest move. It REALLY depends on the cloths age, whether the curve happens just before or right on the ten....

You should like Billys shot Jr. I put it on you the othe day.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

You should like Billys shot Jr. I put it on you the othe day. The best way to learn shoot both ways and see what works best for yopu. Or play someone from that position and see what happines. DOt just pick My shot or the other persons shot play booth shots and see whats the best way for you. You can play both players shots. I would shoot my shot if I needed one ball or all 4 balls or 2 balls or three balls that is the best shot to win the game needing 1 or 4 balls.

[onepocket926]

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ATxl4Easr4FLpl4JUDV4PLhT3Qcpx4Rdvx@Here's a position i was in today. I have pocket A and i need 2 balls. My opponent plays about 2 balls better than me. He is a very good banker and he kicks very well. It is my turn. I lost this game because i failed to execute properly the shot i selected. I would like to hear from our members the shot that they would choose and their reasoning for selecting that shot. By the way the 6 ball and the 1 ball are frozen and the cue ball does pass the 6 ball to the 1 ball.


...lol...I'm to much of a simpleton I guess.....oh yeah...and I always go for it...been my downfall for....45 years...but when I do get out from ...nowhere....you should see 'em cry....lol......I think I'd drive the 5 ball into the wood on that side rail with inside english...stop whitey.....the 5 ball ...jumps the cue ball...double reverse banks....ya make the 6...game over...problem solved.....

PS
....I think I've made that out......lol...