What 2 Do, He Needs Two!!

[newfosgatesucks]

He needs two, I need a slew.
I asked the Pool God what should I do.
He answered me not, So my question to you...
What would YOU do???? By the way, DEAD STROKE FEELS GREAT!!!! Ill inspired me to practice today, and right after practice this came into play
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSN3QcYx4Rcxs2qQtFI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ@

[newfosgatesucks]

I noticed several on here cant or dont do cuetable. Heres a little help to reply to someone elses shot:

hit QUOTE to postreply, and copy the stuff in their post between(cuetable) and (/cuetable).

Then Start another window, and paste the jibberish into the address bar(where www.whatever site you want goes) And it will take you to cuetable. You can modify my cuetable that way.

After you change it to show your shot, click the URL little red doo-hickey near the headstring of the table, then come back to uno-pocketo.org

In your post, Hit <CONTROL + V> to paste. After you Paste, go around the jibberish and put (CUETABLE)jibberish(/CUETABLE) But use the funny shaped boxes next to the P button instead of the ( and ) symbols. This will post your cuetable in your reply...hope I helped someone...

[NH Steve]

...yeah, but which pocket is YOU?
Nevermind, I picked up your clue,
Pocket "B" looks like it will do.

Can I see the 8-ball? If so, I might two rail the eight as tight as I can to my own side, up around mid table, hoping to create a blocker between the cue ball and the one.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HWtj1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSN3QcYx4Rcxs1cWtj1cbxP1cWrk1cLCj4kbSN4kXKI2kLAY2qQtF&ZZ3uBfJ@

[newfosgatesucks]

Actually, it was Dead froze at 90 degrees to the rail - blocking the 8 - Im telling you, I MIGHT be on to a shot I call my own. If this is in Fred's book, like several of my other ones, I might just give up!!!

[vapros]

You're not willing to move the 1? You can't move it 5/8 of an inch and go to the side rail and up-table? You could roll it past the 8 and take a foul, but the spotted ball would be in the guy's range. Other than that, you would have to bend the rail enough to get away from the 1, just hard enough to reach the head rail, hopefully hitting one of those balls and avoiding a scratch.

You in fubble, man.

[Cowboy Dennis]

You could shoot the cueball into the side rail and try to hit the left side of the 11 or the right side of the 15. The worst thing that could happen is a scratch off the left side of the 15, but you would have to miss bad to do that. If you hit the rail between the 13 and 15 and don't hit a ball, you still have the one by your hole and he has to move it with a ball now on the spot for your foul. I would hit this with low right so if I missed all balls I would not sell out the ball on the spot.

[androd]

I noticed several on here cant or dont do cuetable. Heres a little help to reply to someone elses shot:

hit QUOTE to postreply, and copy the stuff in their post between(cuetable) and (/cuetable).

Then Start another window, and paste the jibberish into the address bar(where www.whatever site you want goes) And it will take you to cuetable. You can modify my cuetable that way.

After you change it to show your shot, click the URL little red doo-hickey near the headstring of the table, then come back to uno-pocketo.org

In your post, Hit <CONTROL + V> to paste. After you Paste, go around the jibberish and put (CUETABLE)jibberish(/CUETABLE) But use the funny shaped boxes next to the P button instead of the ( and ) symbols. This will post your cuetable in your reply...hope I helped someone... What 2 Do, He Needs Two!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He needs two, I need a slew.
I asked the Pool God what should I do.
He answered me not, So my question to you...
What would YOU do???? By the way, DEAD STROKE FEELS GREAT!!!! Ill inspired me to practice today, and right after practice this came into play

CueTable Help
What 2 Do, He Needs Two!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He needs two, I need a slew.
I asked the Pool God what should I do.
He answered me not, So my question to you...
What would YOU do???? By the way, DEAD STROKE FEELS GREAT!!!! Ill inspired me to practice today, and right after practice this came into play

CueTable Help
Sorry, playing around with your instructions. This is as far as I got."No fool like an old fool" rodney. PS; I've no idea what you shot ?

[ace]

He needs two, I need a slew.
I asked the Pool God what should I do.
He answered me not, So my question to you...
What would YOU do???? By the way, DEAD STROKE FEELS GREAT!!!! Ill inspired me to practice today, and right after practice this came into play
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSN3QcYx4Rcxs2qQtFI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ@

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSM3QcYx4Rcxs4kbSM4kcxD2kUWm2kbSC4kToU2qQtFI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ@[/CUETABLE@

[Artie Bodendorfer]

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSM3QcYx4Rcxs4kbSM4kcxD2kUWm2kbSC4kToU2qQtFI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ@[/CUETABLE@ Whats the score and whoes shot is it and what pocket do you have.

[ace]

I am assuming it is Newfosgates turn at the table and pocket "B" is his. The score is 6 to Newfosgate's 3.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I am assuming it is Newfosgates turn at the table and pocket "B" is his. The score is 5 to Newfosgate's 2.If he needs two balls the score can not be 5 to 2. Nuless he is getteing spotted a ball. Because the said he needs two balls in the post.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

If he needs two balls the score can not be 5 to 2. Nuless he is getteing spotted a ball. Because the said he needs two balls in the post. I see it were it said the score is 5 to 2. It pays to look.

[ace]

I see where the score should be 6 to Newfosgates 3 unless someone was getting some weight.

[ace]

I see it were it said the score is 5 to 2. It pays to look.
5 & 2 is what they need

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Whats the score and whoes shot is it and what pocket do you have. I would kick behind the 15 ball one rail if you can do that. IF not I mite bank the eleven ball to my pocket and try to run out. Bot a one rail kick behind the 15 is a great shot and if you freeze the cue ball on the rail he is in big trpouble. And If he gets the one out on his next shot you will get a bank on the elenen ball to win the game. But the one rail kick behind the 15 ball is a good shot and you might even make the 1 ball or the 15 ball and you get a chance to run out.

[ace]

I would kick behind the 15 ball one rail if you can do that. IF not I mite bank the eleven ball to my pocket and try to run out. Bot a one rail kick behind the 15 is a great shot and if you freeze the cue ball on the rail he is in big trpouble. And If he gets the one out on his next shot you will get a bank on the elenen ball to win the game. But the one rail kick behind the 15 ball is a good shot and you might even make the 1 ball or the 15 ball and you get a chance to run out.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSN3QcYx4Rcxs2jPhX2jcoA4jToP4jToP4jUFT4kbSN4kdOD2kNMm2kOje2kPpn2qQtFI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ@[@

Artie, Is this the shot you are refering to?

[philwelch]

If your pocket is B and you need 5, your opponent needs 2 why do anything crazy here. You have 2 balls near your hole if anything I would try to put him on the end rail. In the diagram I'm looking at it looks like you can't bank the eleven or even see the fifteen. I would take an intentional before I would try something crazy that might leave a cross corner bank and loss of game.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

If your pocket is B and you need 5, your opponent needs 2 why do anything crazy here. You have 2 balls near your hole if anything I would try to put him on the end rail. In the diagram I'm looking at it looks like you can't bank the eleven or even see the fifteen. I would take an intentional before I would try something crazy that might leave a cross corner bank and loss of game. If you cant hit the balls on the end rail then i would have to revaluate the shot. But by the line showeing the cue ball going to the end rail and back I thought you have room to kick at the 15 ball 3 rails. And send another ball by your pocket and make it eeven harder for my oponent. Or you mite even make the 1 ball or the 15 ball. But If I am froze to the one ball or I cant kick at the 15 ball or bank the 11 ball the whole picture changes. Only the man that put the diagram on her knowes if the cue ball is froze or if you can see enough of the 15 or 11 to shot it. And if I cant hit none of the balls I would go of the side rail ball and freeze him to the end rail. BUt my irst choice would be kicking at the 15 ball if that shot is avalable.

[newfosgatesucks]

I meant to hit the top rail, and ticky behind the balls, I would have taken the scratch. i knew to play short, if I split the 2 balls I leave a shot. As it went, I caught ball-first and still hid my 2 balls. We Battled back and forth and It went good for me from here.

This shot is a variation on a trick shot I shoot often. You can kick directly at his hole with this shot if needed, 4 rails. The right spin takes on the 2nd long rail, and gets you back around his side by his hole. I have taken a scratch that way before to protect balls or position.

I know those not familiar with the shot will say it is no good. But really, what would you do?
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSN3QcYx4Rcxs4TbSN3phsX2hCST1hEWR1hFMR4kbSN4kcPx4kaCv4kXvV4kVRm4kQCl4kHDK4kAQI2kGtu2kaBC2kEnK2kEnf2kDIE2qbkOI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ2rHOF&ZZ1sCYFEnter_Text_Here&ZZ1uCUI@[@

[philwelch]

I meant to hit the top rail, and ticky behind the balls, I would have taken the scratch. i knew to play short, if I split the 2 balls I leave a shot. As it went, I caught ball-first and still hid my 2 balls. We Battled back and forth and It went good for me from here.

This shot is a variation on a trick shot I shoot often. You can kick directly at his hole with this shot if needed, 4 rails. The right spin takes on the 2nd long rail, and gets you back around his side by his hole. I have taken a scratch that way before to protect balls or position.

I know those not familiar with the shot will say it is no good. But really, what would you do?
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSN3QcYx4Rcxs4TbSN3phsX2hCST1hEWR1hFMR4kbSN4kcPx4kaCv4kXvV4kVRm4kQCl4kHDK4kAQI2kGtu2kaBC2kEnK2kEnf2kDIE2qbkOI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ2rHOF&ZZ1sCYFEnter_Text_Here&ZZ1uCUI@[@
On the contrary well I am familiar with that shot. Reverse draw off a rail will bend the cueball an drastically shorten the angle of the kick. If you didn't make contact with any ball I still like that shot because you leave your opponent long and he has to deal with those two balls near your hole.

[blackeee]

I meant to hit the top rail, and ticky behind the balls, I would have taken the scratch. i knew to play short, if I split the 2 balls I leave a shot. As it went, I caught ball-first and still hid my 2 balls. We Battled back and forth and It went good for me from here.

This shot is a variation on a trick shot I shoot often. You can kick directly at his hole with this shot if needed, 4 rails. The right spin takes on the 2nd long rail, and gets you back around his side by his hole. I have taken a scratch that way before to protect balls or position.

I know those not familiar with the shot will say it is no good. But really, what would you do?
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSN3QcYx4Rcxs4TbSN3phsX2hCST1hEWR1hFMR4kbSN4kcPx4kaCv4kXvV4kVRm4kQCl4kHDK4kAQI2kGtu2kaBC2kEnK2kEnf2kDIE2qbkOI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ2rHOF&ZZ1sCYFEnter_Text_Here&ZZ1uCUI@[@

Well I ain't taking no chances here with those 2 balls by my hole. I'm just getting to the end rail. If he trys to drop you in behind the one off the ball on the spot he might make a BIG mistake. I looked at this again and I think you made a good shot. I just think kicking 2 rails to the end rail leaves no chance to make any mistake. It looks to me like if he tries to come off the six and knock the one away, he will likely scratch, so I would leave him that option. If he gets away with it, well he jus made a good shot and he still hasn't won the game. Being behind 5-2 doesn't mean you're an automatic loser.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I meant to hit the top rail, and ticky behind the balls, I would have taken the scratch. i knew to play short, if I split the 2 balls I leave a shot. As it went, I caught ball-first and still hid my 2 balls. We Battled back and forth and It went good for me from here.

This shot is a variation on a trick shot I shoot often. You can kick directly at his hole with this shot if needed, 4 rails. The right spin takes on the 2nd long rail, and gets you back around his side by his hole. I have taken a scratch that way before to protect balls or position.

I know those not familiar with the shot will say it is no good. But really, what would you do?
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSN3QcYx4Rcxs4TbSN3phsX2hCST1hEWR1hFMR4kbSN4kcPx4kaCv4kXvV4kVRm4kQCl4kHDK4kAQI2kGtu2kaBC2kEnK2kEnf2kDIE2qbkOI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ2rHOF&ZZ1sCYFEnter_Text_Here&ZZ1uCUI@[@ A good shot woud be to kick the 13 ball one rail to your pocket. If you can do that. And the coe ball will get behind the eight ball. And if you leave him off the end rail he will kick the one ball out and be out of the trap. you have to make it harder for him so he cant do that.

[One Pocket Ghost]

I meant to hit the top rail, and ticky behind the balls, I would have taken the scratch. i knew to play short, if I split the 2 balls I leave a shot. As it went, I caught ball-first and still hid my 2 balls. We Battled back and forth and It went good for me from here.

This shot is a variation on a trick shot I shoot often. You can kick directly at his hole with this shot if needed, 4 rails. The right spin takes on the 2nd long rail, and gets you back around his side by his hole. I have taken a scratch that way before to protect balls or position.

I know those not familiar with the shot will say it is no good. But really, what would you do?
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSN3QcYx4Rcxs4TbSN3phsX2hCST1hEWR1hFMR4kbSN4kcPx4kaCv4kXvV4kVRm4kQCl4kHDK4kAQI2kGtu2kaBC2kEnK2kEnf2kDIE2qbkOI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ2rHOF&ZZ1sCYFEnter_Text_Here&ZZ1uCUI@[@


nfgs, The shot that you shot was the shot that I saw and liked after studying the table - imo, you picked the best shot.

- Ghost

[Artie Bodendorfer]

nfgs, The shot that you shot was the shot that I saw and liked after studying the table - imo, you picked the best shot.

- Ghost Can you kick at the 13 ball .Yes Or No . If you can thats a good shot. But you let him out of the trap with your shot. All he has to dp is kick one rail behind the one ball and he is out of the trap. And you need 5 balls. THat shot wont get it.

[One Pocket Ghost]

Can you kick at the 13 ball .Yes Or No.


No you can't, and you can't see the left side of the 8 ball either....that's what nfgs the original poster said.


But you let him out of the trap with your shot. All he has to dp is kick one
rail behind the one ball and he is out of the trap. And you need 5 balls. THat shot wont get it.


Let him out of the trap?..lol...He's not in a trap yet - I'm trying to put him in one........I'm talking about shooting it and getting a snooker behind the 13 ball so he can't get to the one ball - that shot does get it - although not easy to execute, I know......What else is there if you can't see any of the balls?

[Artie Bodendorfer]

No you can't, and you can't see the left side of the 8 ball either....that's what nfgs the original poster said.





Let him out of the trap?..lol...He's not in a trap yet - I'm trying to put him in one........I'm talking about shooting it and getting a snooker behind the 13 ball so he can't get to the one ball - that shot does get it - although not easy to execute, I know......What else is there if you can't see any of the balls? If the cue ball is froze to the one and the rail. Intead of shooting a trick shot. I would shoot the cue ball of the right side of the eight ball and freeze you to the end rail. ITs a better shot because you dont owe a ball and you have control of the shot. And he cant kick behind the oneball at a easy angle and get the one out easy and if I freeze him to the rail he will have a harder shot because of the angle.

[One Pocket Ghost]

If the cue ball is froze to the one and the rail. Intead of shooting a trick shot. I would shoot the cue ball of the right side of the eight ball and freeze you to the end rail. ITs a better shot because you dont owe a ball and you have control of the shot. And he cant kick behind the oneball at a easy angle and get the one out easy and if I freeze him to the rail he will have a harder shot because of the angle.


Look again....looks to me that if you hit the right side of the 8 ball like you said, you probably scratch in the side pocket, or hit the point of the pocket.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Look again....looks to me that if you hit the right side of the 8 ball like you said, you probably scratch in the side pocket, or hit the point of the pocket. yYou can clear it with no problem.Any one else want to reply. Thats what you have to do to learn. I say that it will clear easy by were the eight ball is. Away from the rail and twords the back part of the pocket is what I see. What do other players see?

[Artie Bodendorfer]

yYou can clear it with no problem.Any one else want to reply. Thats what you have to do to learn. I say that it will clear easy by were the eight ball is. Away from the rail and twords the back part of the pocket is what I see. What do other players see? THe cue ball will be past the side pocket when it gets back to the rail.

[One Pocket Ghost]

yYou can clear it with no problem.Any one else want to reply. Thats what you have to do to learn. I say that it will clear easy by were the eight ball is. Away from the rail and twords the back part of the pocket is what I see. What do other players see?


Ok, we can't tell for sure from the computer table, so let me ask you this.....Let's just say that you couldn't shoot off of the 8 - then what would you shoot ?

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Ok, we can't tell for sure from the computer table, so let me ask you this.....Let's just say that you couldn't shoot off of the 8 - then what would you shoot ? Good quistion and thier are very few choices. I would shoot like a macy and hit the one ball barly touch it and put you on the end rail . By the 15 ball. Its a very sipel shot and easy to execute and if I hit the 15 ball full you will be froze on the end rail. And you wont owe a ball for a scratch. And with the shot you are going to shot it will be harder to control and if you dont hit a ball to the rail you spot up a ball and a good player might shoot at the spot shot and hit the other balls and run two and out. If you shoot my shot you will see its the correct shot. I am not giving you Bs. But trying to help your game. Just shoot it like a half macey and the cue ball will curve real easy to the 15 ball. Because the cue ball will hook or curve what ever you want to call it. Shoot it and after 4 or 5 shots you will have it down. It is by farr the best and easyist and best shoot to shoot. Let me no what you think. I no what I am telling you is correct and the correct shot. And if you shoot it you will be amazed how simple it is.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Good quistion and thier are very few choices. I would shoot like a macy and hit the one ball barly touch it and put you on the end rail . By the 15 ball. Its a very sipel shot and easy to execute and if I hit the 15 ball full you will be froze on the end rail. And you wont owe a ball for a scratch. And with the shot you are going to shot it will be harder to control and if you dont hit a ball to the rail you spot up a ball and a good player might shoot at the spot shot and hit the other balls and run two and out. If you shoot my shot you will see its the correct shot. I am not giving you Bs. But trying to help your game. Just shoot it like a half macey and the cue ball will curve real easy to the 15 ball. Because the cue ball will hook or curve what ever you want to call it. Shoot it and after 4 or 5 shots you will have it down. It is by farr the best and easyist and best shoot to shoot. Let me no what you think. I no what I am telling you is correct and the correct shot. And if you shoot it you will be amazed how simple it is. That shot is so good I could get payed for it. I shouldnt give it out but I like one pocket players. So take it as a gift. AS Bugs Bunny said thats all folks.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

That shot is so good I could get payed for it. I shouldnt give it out but I like one pocket players. So take it as a gift. AS Bugs Bunny said thats all folks.Goast I didnt her no more from you what do you think of that easy simple shot. I think its the best. All you have to do is elevate the cue stick like a jump shot and hit the ball thin and the cue ball will curve right to the 11 or 13 or even the 15 ball. Isnt that a great shot. I wish some one would shot it and show the path of the cue ball and what happines. ITs realy a great shot and can be used in a lot of other positions were you can use the same shot. See if someone shoots it and sets it up. Its as easy as 1 2 3 Its amazing what you can learn if you are willing to try.

[One Pocket Ghost]

That shot is so good I could get payed for it. I shouldnt give it out but I like one pocket players. So take it as a gift. AS Bugs Bunny said thats all folks.


So good you could get paid for it ?.....I don't even like the shot - your opponent is just going to clear out your 1 and 6 ball on his next shot and then you lost all of your power...don't forget, you have to look ahead and think what your opponents going to do next...lol

I'm still shooting the 'cue ball into the rail shot'...at least that way I have a chance to snooker/trap him and create a very strong position for myself - your shot gets me nothing but surrender.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

So good you could get paid for it ?.....I don't even like the shot - your opponent is just going to clear out your 1 and 6 ball on his next shot and then you lost all of your power...don't forget, you have to look ahead and think what your opponents going to do next...lol

I'm still shooting the 'cue ball into the rail shot'...at least that way I have a chance to snooker/trap him and create a very strong position for myself - your shot gets me nothing but surrender. Are you in disneyland or what. And thaks for telling me about the next shot. I didnt no you were so will schooled in one pocket. I will tell you what you like your shot and I love my shot. And I will give you 2 to 1 witch is the better shot. The real odds I make my shot a out price over yopuers. And are you willing to bet on what you say. Or is it just words. I will let any 3 or 5 players shoot both shots and I will give you two to one the pick my shot over yopures in a game. And you can keep practicing youre shot and it might never work. And as far af locking some one up the have a betterchance doing that on my shot then youes. And its a hundred times easyer. What player or person do you want to shot both shots. Pick any player you want. And you are helping your opponent with the ball on the spot incase you dont no that. And you are giving him a perfect shot to kick out the one ball. And you tell me how you are going to knock the 1 and 6 out of my pocket. You must be able to perform magic. Show he how you are going to loch up the cue ball so I cant kick the one out. I recomened you learn a little more that will help your game. And the bet is still open. And you couldnt but a gun to my head to shot your shot. THat what you call suicide.

[One Pocket Ghost]

I will tell you what you like your shot and I love my shot.


Right, so I have no more interest in debating this - We'll just keep our own opinions...


I didnt no you were so will schooled in one pocket.



Yeah, as a matter of fact I am...but you don't know my game or my knowledge, and obviously you have no interest in taking it into account when discussing shot choices...I've been playing One Pocket for 35 years and teaching it, and I know the game inside and out.

And just for the record, (although I hate writing this and risk losing my action with SJDick and John Henderson at the DCC, lol ), I'm no champion player and never was, but I guess I can play a little....Several years ago at one of the Legends of One Pocket tournaments, I beat Grady 4 to 0 to reach the money rounds - Doc Herbert, owner of Chris's Billiards, who I flew down to the tournament with, sweated that match....I then beat Danny Harriman in the next round.

- Ghost

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Right, so I have no more interest in debating this - We'll just keep our own opinions...






Yeah, as a matter of fact I am...but you don't know my game or my knowledge, and obviously you have no interest in taking it into account when discussing shot choices...I've been playing One Pocket for 35 years and teaching it, and I know the game inside and out.

And just for the record, (although I hate writing this and risk losing my action with SJDick and John Henderson at the DCC, lol ), I'm no champion player and never was, but I guess I can play a little....Several years ago at one of the Legends of One Pocket tournaments, I beat Grady 4 to 0 to reach the money rounds - Doc Herbert, owner of Chris's Billiards, who I flew down to the tournament with, sweated that match....I then beat Danny Harriman in the next round.

- Ghost I no you and I no how you play. And I no you improved and learned a lot since then. But that shot rases my suspetion. And I agree with you 100% you have your opinion and I have mien. And thats the wat it is. But I am being honest with you I do not understand your shot. And why you would shoot two railes when you can go one rail. And do you use no english or what english do you use. And yopu have the wrong guy when you tell me you are a teacher. That does no qualifie you in my book. Anyone can be a teacher? But what you no and do is what showes who you are. Just like some people the say the wrote 5 books but what does that mean. If the correct stuff and the corect ilistations and whats in the book is worth learning. Or dose the book have what 200 other books have the same thing and say the same thing. And thier are lots of books out thier like that. And people challange me and say how meny books do I have out thier. And I say none and to them that means you dont no anything because you havant wrote any books. BUt some people dont wright books and keep thier knowledge to them self. And the are the ones that realy no. And if you look it up its not the best players wrighting the books. Even though some of the books are wrote by the best players. And some of the most knowlegable players. But most books all say the same thing.

[NH Steve]

I meant to hit the top rail, and ticky behind the balls, I would have taken the scratch. i knew to play short, if I split the 2 balls I leave a shot. As it went, I caught ball-first and still hid my 2 balls. We Battled back and forth and It went good for me from here.

This shot is a variation on a trick shot I shoot often. You can kick directly at his hole with this shot if needed, 4 rails. The right spin takes on the 2nd long rail, and gets you back around his side by his hole. I have taken a scratch that way before to protect balls or position.

I know those not familiar with the shot will say it is no good. But really, what would you do?
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AXpN4FRdV1HXjG1KAFp2MCST2OPhX4PbSN3QcYx4Rcxs4TbSN3phsX2hCST1hEWR1hFMR4kbSN4kcPx4kaCv4kXvV4kVRm4kQCl4kHDK4kAQI2kGtu2kaBC2kEnK2kEnf2kDIE2qbkOI_need_5,_he_needs_&two.__I_REALLY_dont_wnat_to_foul,_he_may_pop_the_1-6_to_his_hole___being_I_cant_get_out_even_if_he_misses.__And_I_REALLY_&don't_want_him_to_move_them_away.__What_would_you_do???&ZZ2rHOF&ZZ1sCYFEnter_Text_Here&ZZ1uCUI@[@
I set this up today and the cue ball went pretty much exactly the way you drew it. Nice thinking!

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I set this up today and the cue ball went pretty much exactly the way you drew it. Nice thinking! The shot your shootin is a trick shot. And how meny shots do you think you will need to do what you said? THats for anyone else that wats to answer too. And I will ask you did you shot my shot. And draw a diagram how easy it is and you can end up jacked up over a ball. or you can get locked up behind the 11 ball. But those are all miracles if the happen. And you will not have control of the shot you shoot. And in a game you only get one shot and one chance. So you better make that one shot count. I dont no why you would want to shoot a trick shot instead of a controled shot. And If you scratch yopu will leave the pther player a shot. Did anyone shoot my shot yet? Freddy get on your table and shoot both shots and you will see my shot is like shooting a ball thats hanging in the pocket. If you teach people teach them the wright way. All you do Freddy is jack up like you are going to jump the cue ball off the table. And barly hit the one ball and use left hand english. THe one ball will bairrly move less then a inch. And you try to hit the 13 ball and go behind the elenen. Hit the cue ball with a nice easy touch. And it will go twords the 11 ball. Shoot it a few times tell yoou get the feel of it. The other shot I shot you cannot control it and its a bad shot. I recomend that you do not shoot it in a game. Unless you want to loose. But shoot it and if you have any quistions. You can reply and let other people no how you feel about the shot. Or do you like the trick shot better.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

The shot your shootin is a trick shot. And how meny shots do you think you will need to do what you said? THats for anyone else that wats to answer too. And I will ask you did you shot my shot. And draw a diagram how easy it is and you can end up jacked up over a ball. or you can get locked up behind the 11 ball. But those are all miracles if the happen. And you will not have control of the shot you shoot. And in a game you only get one shot and one chance. So you better make that one shot count. I dont no why you would want to shoot a trick shot instead of a controled shot. And If you scratch yopu will leave the pther player a shot. Did anyone shoot my shot yet? Freddy get on your table and shoot both shots and you will see my shot is like shooting a ball thats hanging in the pocket. If you teach people teach them the wright way. All you do Freddy is jack up like you are going to jump the cue ball off the table. And barly hit the one ball and use left hand english. THe one ball will bairrly move less then a inch. And you try to hit the 13 ball and go behind the elenen. Hit the cue ball with a nice easy touch. And it will go twords the 11 ball. Shoot it a few times tell yoou get the feel of it. The other shot I shot you cannot control it and its a bad shot. I recomend that you do not shoot it in a game. Unless you want to loose. But shoot it and if you have any quistions. You can reply and let other people no how you feel about the shot. Or do you like the trick shot better. I should have told Billy to shoot it too and see what shot he would shoot. Its all about learning.

[NH Steve]

I set the cue ball frozen to the rail, and the 1-ball frozen to the cue ball, 90 degrees to the cushion. From there you need a trick shot, lol. It went pretty much right where the diagram shows the first three times I hit it.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I set the cue ball frozen to the rail, and the 1-ball frozen to the cue ball, 90 degrees to the cushion. From there you need a trick shot, lol. It went pretty much right where the diagram shows the first three times I hit it. You shot the cueball into the rail and were did the cue ball go. Because in his qoite he says he locks you up behind a ball. I am a none beliver. Did you shot my shot? And Just for the records did you get the cue babb behind any of the balls. And how meny times did you scratch. And how meny times did the cue ball get away from you. Your saying that you can get the cue ball were it showes in the diagram? And how does he get the cue ball behind the object ball to lock up his opponent. I am just asking quistions. Because I am confused and it doesnt make sense. Unless their is more to the shot then what I see. And the cue ball nevar got away from you shooting into the rail? You can control the cueball to were it showes it in the diagram?

[Artie Bodendorfer]

You shot the cueball into the rail and were did the cue ball go. Because in his qoite he says he locks you up behind a ball. I am a none beliver. Did you shot my shot? And Just for the records did you get the cue babb behind any of the balls. And how meny times did you scratch. And how meny times did the cue ball get away from you. Your saying that you can get the cue ball were it showes in the diagram? And how does he get the cue ball behind the object ball to lock up his opponent. I am just asking quistions. Because I am confused and it doesnt make sense. Unless their is more to the shot then what I see. And the cue ball nevar got away from you shooting into the rail? You can control the cueball to were it showes it in the diagram? You are going to shoot the cue ball into the rail and hit the side rail and hit behind the 13 ball and lock me up behind the 11 ball Is that correct. How meny shots would it take you to do all of that?

[ace]

I agree with Artie.

[newfosgatesucks]

The cushion smashes in a tad, and the cueball goes past the ball since you kick way long. You shorten the cueball up with draw and right, Which actually makes control easier, since all you really have 2 do is get uptable here.

IF you foul, he's bad on the spot shot and in a bad spot...If you hit the balls here and he can see the balls in your hole, he;s in a bad spot....

But if you hit 'em, get a rail, and hook him....He will pull up the next game!!!
I agree with Artie.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

The cushion smashes in a tad, and the cueball goes past the ball since you kick way long. You shorten the cueball up with draw and right, Which actually makes control easier, since all you really have 2 do is get uptable here.

IF you foul, he's bad on the spot shot and in a bad spot...If you hit the balls here and he can see the balls in your hole, he;s in a bad spot....

But if you hit 'em, get a rail, and hook him....He will pull up the next game!!! I no the shot real well it comes up in three cushion billiards. Thats were the shot is used. I dont her to meny people repliying on this shot. And I do not see how you can control the cue ball and shot. And if you that shot you will help your opponent. And he is in a bad position already. And to frezze him to the end rail makes it worse for him. Can anyone show the path of the cue ball on my shot and the resulte what will happen? This shot is very important for learning. And its good to have different opinions. But you have to learn the easeast and best percentage shot ror each shot. And that shot will play different on different tables. And you need to remember in a tournament or gambling you only get ONE chance. I love this shot for a example it would even be good on tap. Did you shoot it yet Freddy. On your table?

[wincardona]

The shot your shootin is a trick shot. And how meny shots do you think you will need to do what you said? THats for anyone else that wats to answer too. And I will ask you did you shot my shot. And draw a diagram how easy it is and you can end up jacked up over a ball. or you can get locked up behind the 11 ball. But those are all miracles if the happen. And you will not have control of the shot you shoot. And in a game you only get one shot and one chance. So you better make that one shot count. I dont no why you would want to shoot a trick shot instead of a controled shot. And If you scratch yopu will leave the pther player a shot. Did anyone shoot my shot yet? Freddy get on your table and shoot both shots and you will see my shot is like shooting a ball thats hanging in the pocket. If you teach people teach them the wright way. All you do Freddy is jack up like you are going to jump the cue ball off the table. And barly hit the one ball and use left hand english. THe one ball will bairrly move less then a inch. And you try to hit the 13 ball and go behind the elenen. Hit the cue ball with a nice easy touch. And it will go twords the 11 ball. Shoot it a few times tell yoou get the feel of it. The other shot I shot you cannot control it and its a bad shot. I recomend that you do not shoot it in a game. Unless you want to loose. But shoot it and if you have any quistions. You can reply and let other people no how you feel about the shot. Or do you like the trick shot better.

Lets all try to get along, keep in mind we are all trying to learn, and this situation isn't black and white. In this situation I would lean, keep in mind, lean toward the kick shot because it gives me about a 15% chance of falling behind the eleven ball, and if I can execute that shot I can get back in the game. If i'm not able to fall behind the eleven ball the one ball is left in a position where if my opponent tries to do something special to remove it there's no guarantee he will succeed, giving me another chance to get back in the game. If I fail to hit a ball with the kick the spotted ball may be an advantage for me, depending on how my opponent chooses to deal with the position.If the score was even or close I would shoot Artie's shot hands down, for the reasons he mentioned. That's my answer and it was a close decision.

[philwelch]

[QUOTE=wincardona]Lets all try to get along, keep in mind we are all trying to learn, and this situation isn't black and white. In this situation I would lean, keep in mind, lean toward the kick shot because it gives me about a 15% chance of falling behind the eleven ball, and if I can execute that shot I can get back in the game. If i'm not able to fall behind the eleven ball the one ball is left in a position where if my opponent tries to do something special to remove it there's no guarantee he will succeed, giving me another chance to get back in the game. If I fail to hit a ball with the kick the spotted ball may be an advantage for me, depending on how my opponent chooses to deal with the position.If the score was even or close I would shoot Artie's shot hands down, for the reasons he mentioned. That's my answer and it was a close decision.[/QUOTE
I agree Bill, get the cueball to the end rail with the hopes of hooking your opponent but if you don't hook him he can still be in a bit of trouble considering he has to remove two balls that are favorable to you.

[fred bentivegna]

I no the shot real well it comes up in three cushion billiards. Thats were the shot is used. I dont her to meny people repliying on this shot. And I do not see how you can control the cue ball and shot. And if you that shot you will help your opponent. And he is in a bad position already. And to frezze him to the end rail makes it worse for him. Can anyone show the path of the cue ball on my shot and the resulte what will happen? This shot is very important for learning. And its good to have different opinions. But you have to learn the easeast and best percentage shot ror each shot. And that shot will play different on different tables. And you need to remember in a tournament or gambling you only get ONE chance. I love this shot for a example it would even be good on tap. Did you shoot it yet Freddy. On your table?


Yes, I shot your masse'. I executed it every time, four in a row without owing a ball. I tried the other shot and it didnt work the first five times I tried it. Finally, I got the hang of it and was able to execute it 3 or 4 times in a row. But each time I still owed a ball. It's obvious that the money shot is the masse.

the Beard

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Yes, I shot your masse'. I executed it every time, four in a row without owing a ball. I tried the other shot and it didnt work the first five times I tried it. Finally, I got the hang of it and was able to execute it 3 or 4 times in a row. But each time I still owed a ball. It's obvious that the money shot is the masse.

the BeardThank you Billy not because you choose my shot. But because you explained it and shot it and you have a lot of credibility with the pool world. And to me the way you explained it is great and in a game you dont get to go to the table next to you and get 4 or 5 practice shots.You get one shot and if you make a mistake its all over.I am glad you shot the shot. And you are a great player. And if a beginner shoots that shot he will have a way harder time shooting it then you. And thats why we should shoot the easier shots. Just like if thier is a real hard shot and you are a medium shooer. I would tell you not to shoot it. But Great shooters like You or Efren or Johnny Archer or Gab Owens or Cliff Or Scott It would be ok for them to shoot it. Because of thier execution level. And the are use to shooting hard shots. And the belive the can make any shot. And the massay
shot is a simple shot very simple. And some player who are not good shooters. Might even foul the shot shooting it into the rail. Why would you shoot it into the rail. When all you have to do is jack up and make it a hanger. But its still everybodys chooice. I try to show you the correct and easyeast shot to shot in the position in the diagram. Thanks again Billy for taking the time to explain it and I hope it will help people with thier onepocket game. KEEP LEARNING AND SOON YOU WILL NO A LOT.

[wincardona]

Yes, I shot your masse'. I executed it every time, four in a row without owing a ball. I tried the other shot and it didnt work the first five times I tried it. Finally, I got the hang of it and was able to execute it 3 or 4 times in a row. But each time I still owed a ball. It's obvious that the money shot is the masse.

the Beard

Fred, if we are discussing which of the two shots is the easies't shot to execute, that's a no brainer, the masse shot is. But the objective is which shot offers you the best chance of winning the game and to me the kick shot does because with the kick shot you keep the pressure on your opponent and force him to perform. Also what I didn't mention with the masse shot is that once the one ball is moved and the cueball repositioned (on the upper right side of the table)the safety is an easier shot to execute.There comes a time in games particularly when trailing that gamblig is a fair trade off, and in this instance considering the score and the way the balls are positioned leads me to believe that the gamble is a fair trade off.

[SJDinPHX]

Yes, I shot your masse'. I executed it every time, four in a row without owing a ball. I tried the other shot and it didnt work the first five times I tried it. Finally, I got the hang of it and was able to execute it 3 or 4 times in a row. But each time I still owed a ball. It's obvious that the money shot is the masse.

the Beard

The shot I see, as simplest to execute, find your angle, and depressing the rail slightly, just lagging up to the 11 or 13 ball.
You may get him over a ball, froze on the rail, or if you're lucky maybe even a hook.
If he wants to bet the game, shooting the ball you spot up from there, I say let him go. You also may NOT be spotting a ball.
My second choice would be NFGS shot. I would not be uncomfortable with it at all, however the liklihood of a hook is pure luck.
The masse many seem to like, would be my 3rd choice, and I masse fairly well.
Masse's are OK when your shooting with a little zip on the cue ball. NOT so easy if you're trying to do it lag speed. JMHO.

Dick <----likes K.I.S.S.

PS Freddy, you didn't owe a ball because you were shaving the 1 ball and hitting the end rail...but where did your cue ball (and the 1 ball for that matter) wind up ? I'll bet rarely within an inch of the end rail as my shot will most of the time. ;)

PS (Parting Shot) The Ghost made me do this. I don't even like WEI table games.....:eek:

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Fred, if we are discussing which of the two shots is the easies't shot to execute, that's a no brainer, the masse shot is. But the objective is which shot offers you the best chance of winning the game and to me the kick shot does because with the kick shot you keep the pressure on your opponent and force him to perform. Also what I didn't mention with the masse shot is that once the one ball is moved and the cueball repositioned (on the upper right side of the table)the safety is an easier shot to execute.There comes a time in games particularly when trailing that you have to gamble, and in this instance considering the score and the way the balls are positioned leads me to believe that the gamble is a fair trade off. If a player would shoot the shoot into the rail shot you would loose me as a backer. And I would think yopu were dumping me. Did you shoot both shots. And what happened. And what are you trying to do with the cue ball on the shot trying to kick in to the rail first. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO WITH THE CUE BALL SHOOTING INTO THE RAIL? CAN SOME ONE SHOW BOTH DIAGRAMS ON THE TABLE LAYOUT? AND THE PATH OF THE CUE BALL AND YOU WILL SEE IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE SHOOTING INTO A RAIL WHEN ITS NOT NESSASARY. AND I WISH I COULD BE THIER IN PERSON WHEN YOU SHOT IT THAT WAY. AND NEXT TIME I SEE YOU WHENEVER THAT WILL BE. I WILL BRING UP THE SHOT AND YOU CAN SHOW ME AND SHOOT IT AND EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO AND WHY YOPU ARE SHOOTING INTO THE RAIL WHEN YOU DONT HAVE TOO. I guess you would ratter kick at a ball then shoot at it straight too? BUt thats ok thanks for your opinion. I no I would love to have to great equal players shooting from both positions and we bet even money. Maybe some one wants to play Billy from thier with equal ability in both positions and play it 5 times. I dont no if Billy would win. BUt I sure would love to bet on him. Freddy the other shot does not offer you the best chance of winning. Why would you even say that. Can you explain why the other shot has a better chance of winning. Can you show a diagram of what you mean. I think its way stronger the other way. And you can even jack the player up over a ball. Shoot it 15 times and you will see only good things can happen. And I shot it the other way and I have no control of the cue ball or were its going but general direction. Its LIke a pook and hope shot. Thats not for me.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

If a player would shoot the shoot into the rail shot you would loose me as a backer. And I would think yopu were dumping me. Did you shoot both shots. And what happened. And what are you trying to do with the cue ball on the shot trying to kick in to the rail first. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO WITH THE CUE BALL SHOOTING INTO THE RAIL? CAN SOME ONE SHOW BOTH DIAGRAMS ON THE TABLE LAYOUT? AND THE PATH OF THE CUE BALL AND YOU WILL SEE IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE SHOOTING INTO A RAIL WHEN ITS NOT NESSASARY. AND I WISH I COULD BE THIER IN PERSON WHEN YOU SHOT IT THAT WAY. AND NEXT TIME I SEE YOU WHENEVER THAT WILL BE. I WILL BRING UP THE SHOT AND YOU CAN SHOW ME AND SHOOT IT AND EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO AND WHY YOPU ARE SHOOTING INTO THE RAIL WHEN YOU DONT HAVE TOO. I guess you would ratter kick at a ball then shoot at it straight too? BUt thats ok thanks for your opinion. I no I would love to have to great equal players shooting from both positions and we bet even money. Maybe some one wants to play Billy from thier with equal ability in both positions and play it 5 times. I dont no if Billy would win. BUt I sure would love to bet on him. Freddy the other shot does not offer you the best chance of winning. Why would you even say that. Can you explain why the other shot has a better chance of winning. Can you show a diagram of what you mean. I think its way stronger the other way. And you can even jack the player up over a ball. Shoot it 15 times and you will see only good things can happen. And I shot it the other way and I have no control of the cue ball or were its going but general direction. Its LIke a pook and hope shot. Thats not for me. You have to be realistic or the learners will be confuessed.

[One Pocket Ghost]

if we are discussing which of the two shots is the easies't shot to execute, that's a no brainer, the masse shot is. But the objective is which shot offers you the best chance of winning the game and to me the kick shot does because with the kick shot you keep the pressure on your opponent and force him to perform. Also what I didn't mention with the masse shot is that once the one ball is moved and the cueball repositioned (on the upper right side of the table)the safety is an easier shot to execute.There comes a time in games particularly when trailing that gamblig is a fair trade off, and in this instance considering the score and the way the balls are positioned leads me to believe that the gamble is a fair trade off.


Billy, those were exactly my considered thoughts when making this same choice yesterday - thanks for wording it that way....

....And SJDick, your shot is the other shot that I would also choose, before I would shoot Artie's masse shot....

....And here's a bad thing about the masse shot that hasn't been said - Having to hit the cueball hard enough to reach the bottom rail, it would be awfully hard to feather the one thin enough to not move it sideways an inch or two, taking it away from the front of your pocket.....And Artie calls this the simplest shot here for the average player to choose and execute, as he says, in one try in the heat of battle - uh uh, in that scenario, SJDick's shot is the easiest/simplest shot to execute of the three shots.

- Ghost

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Billy, those were exactly my considered thoughts when making this same choice yesterday - thanks for wording it that way....

....And SJDick, your shot is the other shot that I would also choose, before I would shoot Artie's masse shot....

....And here's a bad thing about the masse shot that hasn't been said - Having to hit the cueball hard enough to reach the bottom rail, it would be awfully hard to feather the one thin enough to not move it sideways an inch or two, taking it away from the front of your pocket.....And Artie calls this the simplest shot here for the average player to choose and execute, as he says, in one try in the heat of battle - uh uh, in that scenario, SJDick's shot is the easiest/simplest shot to execute of the three shots.

- Ghost Dicks shot is way better then the trick shot and it is very slose to what I am shooting. And its not a macy shot its a Jacked up curve on the cue ball. And the ball ardly moves. And you can shoot it sometimes and not move a inch or a half a inch. And the reason I shot it off the one ball was to help me if I dont hit a ball I will not owe and have to spot a ball. And that is why I shot it the way I did. And that is my reason. And Dicks shot is ok and it will almost take the same direction as my shot and its a good shot and its ok to shoot it that way. But I would never shoot it the other way.And I would like to ask Billy why would it be a better chance to win the game shooting it the other way? How do you keep pressure on your opponent better shooting the other way? Were is the cue ball going to go when you shot that shot? And do you want to give a good player a hot to run two and out and clear your pocket on the shot. I dont. But I am very interested were you want the cue ball to go? And You and Freddy both shot the shot 4 times and it didnt work. And I am sure you have been in simular positions. And the only shot I would shoot is my shot and Dicks shot. Witch is looking for the same resulte that he is. Excepte I want to eliminate the sratch If I miss the balls on the end rail. The other shot. Is not realistic. Why would you kick to rails intead off one rail like Dick said. Its insaine.

[wincardona]

Dicks shot is way better then the trick shot and it is very slose to what I am shooting. And its not a macy shot its a Jacked up curve on the cue ball. And the ball ardly moves. And you can shoot it sometimes and not move a inch or a half a inch. And the reason I shot it off the one ball was to help me if I dont hit a ball I will not owe and have to spot a ball. And that is why I shot it the way I did. And that is my reason. And Dicks shot is ok and it will almost take the same direction as my shot and its a good shot and its ok to shoot it that way. But I would never shoot it the other way.And I would like to ask Billy why would it be a better chance to win the game shooting it the other way? How do you keep pressure on your opponent better shooting the other way? Were is the cue ball going to go when you shot that shot? And do you want to give a good player a hot to run two and out and clear your pocket on the shot. I dont. But I am very interested were you want the cue ball to go? And You and Freddy both shot the shot 4 times and it didnt work. And I am sure you have been in simular positions. And the only shot I would shoot is my shot and Dicks shot. Witch is looking for the same resulte that he is. Excepte I want to eliminate the sratch If I miss the balls on the end rail. The other shot. Is not realistic. Why would you kick to rails intead off one rail like Dick said. Its insaine.
Artie, what I dont like about your shot is your moving the one ball, I feel that leaving the one ball where it is, regardless if you shoot Dick's shot or the kick shot your forcing your opponent to perform on his next shot. Keep in mind that the shooter needs 5 balls to his opponents 2. He has the superior position why not try to keep it, instead of weakening it? The kick shot is not as bad as you make it out to be, and as far as leaving your opponent a shot at the spotted ball, great I want him to shoot it, then he's gambling with the lead.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie, what I dont like about your shot is your moving the one ball, I feel that leaving the one ball where it is, regardless if you shoot Dick's shot or the kick shot your forcing your opponent to perform on his next shot. Keep in mind that the shooter needs 5 balls to his opponents 2. He has the superior position why not try to keep it, instead of weakening it? The kick shot is not as bad as you make it out to be, and as far as leaving your opponent a shot at the spotted ball, great I want him to shoot it, then he's gambling with the lead. Billy you hardley move the ball at all. And Dicks way the ball does not move at all. You keep talking about the next shot the next shot the player will be on deffense and the only way you let him on offense is to give him a shot. He is going to be on deffense no mater what unless you give him a shot. And even me moving the one ball closer to the other ball will make it harder for the next shot then just kicking the one out witch will be easy to do from the position of the other shot. And Can you tell me were you want the cue ball to end up kicking at the balls two rails. Were is the cue ball going to end up.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie, what I dont like about your shot is your moving the one ball, I feel that leaving the one ball where it is, regardless if you shoot Dick's shot or the kick shot your forcing your opponent to perform on his next shot. Keep in mind that the shooter needs 5 balls to his opponents 2. He has the superior position why not try to keep it, instead of weakening it? The kick shot is not as bad as you make it out to be, and as far as leaving your opponent a shot at the spotted ball, great I want him to shoot it, then he's gambling with the lead. Why would you want to give him a winning shot and clear your pocket.

[fred bentivegna]

The shot I see, as simplest to execute, find your angle, and depressing the rail slightly, just lagging up to the 11 or 13 ball.
You may get him over a ball, froze on the rail, or if you're lucky maybe even a hook.
If he wants to bet the game, shooting the ball you spot up from there, I say let him go. You also may NOT be spotting a ball.
My second choice would be NFGS shot. I would not be uncomfortable with it at all, however the liklihood of a hook is pure luck.
The masse many seem to like, would be my 3rd choice, and I masse fairly well.
Masse's are OK when your shooting with a little zip on the cue ball. NOT so easy if you're trying to do it lag speed. JMHO.

Dick <----likes K.I.S.S.

PS Freddy, you didn't owe a ball because you were shaving the 1 ball and hitting the end rail...but where did your cue ball (and the 1 ball for that matter) wind up ? I'll bet rarely within an inch of the end rail as my shot will most of the time. ;)

PS (Parting Shot) The Ghost made me do this. I don't even like WEI table games.....:eek:

This is the last thing I want to say about this because I hate the WEI table also. But to me the 1/2 masse was a hanger. The one ball didnt move 1/2 inch. I didnt scratch, and the cue ball, if not dead on the rail ended up very close, and I could probably do it almost every time.

the Beard

I quit on this shot, it'll come up every leap year.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

This is the last thing I want to say about this because I hate the WEI table also. But to me the 1/2 masse was a hanger. The one ball didnt move 1/2 inch. I didnt scratch, and the cue ball, if not dead on the rail ended up very close, and I could probably do it almost every time.

the Beard

I quit on this shot, it'll come up every leap year. You said it perfect and thats how it needs to be clearified not for you or Billy or Grady. But it is very important to the beginners and learners. That the learn and that the aswer does not stay up in the air. Its very important for someone learning that the understand what the easeast and best choice is before you go on to the next shot. The good players can make thier own decisiond. But a beginner needs to be shown and explained thourghly so he is not in dought. Like when the diagram first started. And I am a ferm beliver you cannot go knowing abcd and jump to making words without knowing the whole alphabit.
Learning good control shots will help you win. And leave the trick shots for the trick shooter. You want to learn a solid control game. And shots that you can execute. You do not want to gamble on shots unless you have to. THanks for comming back down to earth.Very Good

[Artie Bodendorfer]

You said it perfect and thats how it needs to be clearified not for you or Billy or Grady. But it is very important to the beginners and learners. That the learn and that the aswer does not stay up in the air. Its very important for someone learning that the understand what the easeast and best choice is before you go on to the next shot. The good players can make thier own decisiond. But a beginner needs to be shown and explained thourghly so he is not in dought. Like when the diagram first started. And I am a ferm beliver you cannot go knowing abcd and jump to making words without knowing the whole alphabit.
Learning good control shots will help you win. And leave the trick shots for the trick shooter. You want to learn a solid control game. And shots that you can execute. You do not want to gamble on shots unless you have to. THanks for comming back down to earth.Very Good Your wright the shot will show up in every leap year. BUt with youre luck it will show up in your next game.

[Cowboy Dennis]

The shot I see, as simplest to execute, find your angle, and depressing the rail slightly, just lagging up to the 11 or 13 ball.
You may get him over a ball, froze on the rail, or if you're lucky maybe even a hook.
If he wants to bet the game, shooting the ball you spot up from there, I say let him go. You also may NOT be spotting a ball.
My second choice would be NFGS shot. I would not be uncomfortable with it at all, however the liklihood of a hook is pure luck.
The masse many seem to like, would be my 3rd choice, and I masse fairly well.
Masse's are OK when your shooting with a little zip on the cue ball. NOT so easy if you're trying to do it lag speed. JMHO.

Dick <----likes K.I.S.S.

PS Freddy, you didn't owe a ball because you were shaving the 1 ball and hitting the end rail...but where did your cue ball (and the 1 ball for that matter) wind up ? I'll bet rarely within an inch of the end rail as my shot will most of the time. ;)

PS (Parting Shot) The Ghost made me do this. I don't even like WEI table games.....:eek:
It only took 2 days for someone to say what I said in the 3rd or 4th reply to this question. I must be getting better. Thanks Dr. Jack.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

It only took 2 days for someone to say what I said in the 3rd or 4th reply to this question. I must be getting better. Thanks Dr. Jack. Everybody Masays good but yet you want to shoot the other shot. Maybe you will take a two to one shot at even moeny. Let me ask you one quistion. Were is the cue ball going to go when you are kicking two rails?
I hope you can give a good answer. I am realy curious. were you want the cue ball to go? Thats all I want to no. And by the way I am glad you gave your opinion. THats important that shows you want to contribute.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Everybody Masays good but yet you want to shoot the other shot. Maybe you will take a two to one shot at even moeny. Let me ask you one quistion. Were is the cue ball going to go when you are kicking two rails?
I hope you can give a good answer. I am realy curious. were you want the cue ball to go? Thats all I want to no. And by the way I am glad you gave your opinion. THats important that shows you want to contribute.
Artie, read the 4th reply to this post and you will see where I want the cueball to go. It is not a masse' shot. Hit it with low right and spin it a little. I still like my shot better than anything I've read here for the last two days. I also am practiced at shooting into a rail like this and knowing where the rock is going. I'll still take my chances on what I said in my first reply.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie, read the 4th reply to this post and you will see where I want the cueball to go. It is not a masse' shot. Hit it with low right and spin it a little. I still like my shot better than anything I've read here for the last two days. I also am practiced at shooting into a rail like this and knowing where the rock is going. I'll still take my chances on what I said in my first reply. Sice you no were the rock is going could you tell me were its going to go?

[Cowboy Dennis]

Sice you no were the rock is going could you tell me were its going to go?
It's going to hit the 11 on the left side, hopefully, and nothing lost if it does not. Failing that, it will hit the head rail and with the right hand spin, it with end up near his side rail and leave no shot and a ball on the spot. Or it will hit the 15 on the right side and leave him on the head rail needing to move the one ball from my hole. I've got all three scenarios covered and am relatively happy with any of the outcomes. That's why I replied the same thing in the fourth post on this topic. Read it.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

It's going to hit the 11 on the left side, hopefully, and nothing lost if it does not. Failing that, it will hit the head rail and with the right hand spin, it with end up near his side rail and leave no shot and a ball on the spot. Or it will hit the 15 on the right side and leave him on the head rail needing to move the one ball from my hole. I've got all three scenarios covered and am relatively happy with any of the outcomes. That's why I replied the same thing in the fourth post on this topic. Read it. You are shooting one rail like Dick is that correct or was Dicks shot your shot. I said one rail is ok its almost the same shot and we are both looking for the same result. If you are saying kicking it one rail to the 11 and 13. I have shot it a bunch of times and my best shot was locking him up behind the11 ball. And my second best shot was freezing him on top of the 13 ball mostly all the shot ended up 6 inches from the rail or by the 15 ball or froze to the 15 ball. If thats your shot thats ok. Thier is nothing wrong with your shot. BUt iF we both need a ball I would make my shot the favorite over all the other shots. And both players needing a ball my shot is better because if you dont hit a ball. You dont have to spot up a ball. And why give your opponent a shot if you dont have to? I dont want to give a good shooter a shot especialy when I have him on deffense. And if he shoots the shot he can make it and he has balls by youir pocket to not scratch. But like I said thier is nthing wrong with youe shot. If you are shooting a one rail shot. And with out the ball on the spot he only has one choice to play safe.

[Cowboy Dennis]

You are shooting one rail like Dick is that correct or was Dicks shot your shot. I said one rail is ok its almost the same shot and we are both looking for the same result. If you are saying kicking it one rail to the 11 and 13. I have shot it a bunch of times and my best shot was locking him up behind the11 ball. And my second best shot was freezing him on top of the 13 ball mostly all the shot ended up 6 inches from the rail or by the 15 ball or froze to the 15 ball. If thats your shot thats ok. Thier is nothing wrong with your shot. BUt iF we both need a ball I would make my shot the favorite over all the other shots. And both players needing a ball my shot is better because if you dont hit a ball. You dont have to spot up a ball. And why give your opponent a shot if you dont have to? I dont want to give a good shooter a shot especialy when I have him on deffense. And if he shoots the shot he can make it and he has balls by youir pocket to not scratch. But like I said thier is nthing wrong with youe shot. If you are shooting a one rail shot. And with out the ball on the spot he only has one choice to play safe.
Yes Artie, I am kicking one rail to hit the 11. The left side of the 11. Or the rail between the 11 and 15. Or the right side of the 15. All three work for me but I would rather not foul. But if I do, he shoots from the side rail with a ball on the spot and the 1 ball by my hole. I am not worried about 'locking him up' behind any balls from here. That's insane to even contemplate. I'll hopefully put him 9 1/2 feet from the one ball and let the chips fall where they may.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Yes Artie, I am kicking one rail to hit the 11. The left side of the 11. Or the rail between the 11 and 15. Or the right side of the 15. All three work for me but I would rather not foul. But if I do, he shoots from the side rail with a ball on the spot and the 1 ball by my hole. I am not worried about 'locking him up' behind any balls from here. That's insane to even contemplate. I'll hopefully put him 9 1/2 feet from the one ball and let the chips fall where they may.Ok Whatever I said about your shot I take it back. I missunderstood I thought you were going two rails into the 11 and 13. Your shot works and its ok. But with a strong player you do not want to give him a shot. Especialy that little rascal Efren. And thats why I would shot my shot. I dont want no Paricas or Efrens of scott Frost or Cliff or Gab shooting at anything and we do not change the position of the ballsshooting of the one ball it will barley move. And you can aim the cue ball twords the eight ball and because its froce it will still move a hair. And by scratching you are making the game almost even because of the position of the balls. Can you see that? The player needing 5 balls will almost be the favorite because of the position of the balls and he is a favorite to get the first shot. BUt if you make a good hit and dont scratch you are still a decent favorite.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Ok Whatever I said about your shot I take it back. I missunderstood I thought you were going two rails into the 11 and 13. Your shot works and its ok. But with a strong player you do not want to give him a shot. Especialy that little rascal Efren. And thats why I would shot my shot. I dont want no Paricas or Efrens of scott Frost or Cliff or Gab shooting at anything and we do not change the position of the ballsshooting of the one ball it will barley move. And you can aim the cue ball twords the eight ball and because its froce it will still move a hair. And by scratching you are making the game almost even because of the position of the balls. Can you see that? The player needing 5 balls will almost be the favorite because of the position of the balls and he is a favorite to get the first shot. BUt if you make a good hit and dont scratch you are still a decent favorite.
Artie, you are right about not leaving great players good shots, but most of us are not playing great players. There's nothing wrong with your shot either, I'm just very comfortable shooting into a rail. I have practiced it many hundreds of times from various positions and feel that if I cannot execute it here, then I deserve to lose anyway. Sooner or later we have to stop talking about it and shoot the shot.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie, you are right about not leaving great players good shots, but most of us are not playing great players. There's nothing wrong with your shot either, I'm just very comfortable shooting into a rail. I have practiced it many hundreds of times from various positions and feel that if I cannot execute it here, then I deserve to lose anyway. Sooner or later we have to stop talking about it and shoot the shot. THe person needing 5 balls in this positon is not a very big favorite. I make the game a lot closer then the SCORE. Because of the position of the balls and the player needing 5 balls should get the first shot.

[Cowboy Dennis]

THe person needing 5 balls in this positon is not a very big favorite. I make the game a lot closer then the SCORE. Because of the position of the balls and the player needing 5 balls should get the first shot.
Correct. The game looks even from here. Or close to it.

[SJDinPHX]

You could shoot the cueball into the side rail and try to hit the left side of the 11 or the right side of the 15. The worst thing that could happen is a scratch off the left side of the 15, but you would have to miss bad to do that. If you hit the rail between the 13 and 15 and don't hit a ball, you still have the one by your hole and he has to move it with a ball now on the spot for your foul. I would hit this with low right so if I missed all balls I would not sell out the ball on the spot.

Cowboy,

Missed your shot in post #6. but it does differ from mine in that I am shooting it lag speed, no spin needed, trying to hit either ball or freeze the cue ball on the end rail. Your shot is good too, just a little harder to judge the speed if you're headed for the 15 ball.
I could care less if he has a shot at the spotted ball. (IF I don't get a rail) He'd be crazy to go for it needing only two balls.

Dick <----is ready for a new challenge. ( in about 2 years ) :eek:

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Cowboy,

Missed your shot in post #6. but it does differ from mine in that I am shooting it lag speed, no spin needed, trying to hit either ball or freeze the cue ball.
I could care less if he has a shot at the six. He'd be crazy to go for it needing only two balls.

Dick Both of your shots are good tanks for narowing it down.Thie is a good way for the finish. Unless some one else showes up and we will go into the third day. But we will see tomarrow morning because some of these players need thier sleep for the greatest tournament of the year.