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Shortstop
03-28-2009, 09:41 PM
Hello..Wish I Knew,How To Work The WEI..This Happened In A Game Today...Its My Shot..I Have A Ball Hanging By My Pocket And An Easy Cross-Corner Bank..I Shoot The Bank & Before That Ball GOES IN..I Accidentally Knock The Ball,At My Pocket,With The Cue,Out Of The Way...What Is The Ruling??
usblues
03-28-2009, 09:54 PM
foul.Ball gets spotted,opponents shot from wherever CB is,your other ball is also spotted unless you both agree to put back where it was....if I read you right....
Cowboy Dennis
03-28-2009, 10:03 PM
Hello..Wish I Knew,How To Work The WEI..This Happened In A Game Today...Its My Shot..I Have A Ball Hanging By My Pocket And An Easy Cross-Corner Bank..I Shoot The Bank & Before That Ball GOES IN..I Accidentally Knock The Ball,At My Pocket,With The Cue,Out Of The Way...What Is The Ruling??


There are rules on this site for almost any situation. Without looking at them, I'll tell you what I think. Usually only cueball fouls are counted in tournaments or gambling, so it's not a foul.

If you made the bank shot, I would not let you keep it as you cleared the way for it to go in. It may spot up in this situation.

The ball you moved from the jaws would sometimes be up to the opponent to leave where it is or replace it to it's previous position.

Like I said first, look up the rule. But if you were playing me you would spot the made bank and I would probably leave the object ball to where you moved it.

I'm sure someone will tell you the correct rule.
Shortstop
03-28-2009, 10:11 PM
You Both Read It Right..My Opponent Said..Because The Ball Was In The Way Of My Bank Shots Pocket & Because I Moved It..It Was A Scratch!!''..In Other Words..Spot The Bank I Made..Leave The Ball I Moved,Or Put It Back..Plus,I Owe A Ball
Cowboy Dennis
03-28-2009, 10:14 PM
You Both Read It Right..My Opponent Said..Because The Ball Was In The Way Of My Bank Shots Pocket & Because I Moved It..It Was A Scratch!!''..In Other Words..Spot The Bank I Made..Leave The Ball I Moved,Or Put It Back..Plus,I Owe A Ball


You definitely do NOT owe a ball for a foul. There was none.
Shortstop
03-28-2009, 10:16 PM
Thats What I Thought...Thanks
newfosgatesucks
03-29-2009, 08:14 AM
Actually, the general rules of pocket billiards apply, and any time a ball in play intersects paths, collides, or interacts with a ball that inadvertently touched by a player or his equipment, you have a foul.

Playing friendly, you might sleep a slight breach of this rule. Since this one affected the pocketing of a ball you should be punished to the fullest.

That said, your ball could have been restored, BUT it affected the path of a ball, therefore, if it was never fouled it would not have been wherever you would want to restore it. That means it goes on the spot. With the ball you owe.

If it had also touched the cueball AFTER the illegitimate outcome, you give up option of ball in hand.

THATS WHY I STOPPED USING BODY ENGLISH!!!!LOL
There are differing opinions on this, just as there are on push shots, 3-foul, etc.

Thats What I Thought...Thanks
Cowboy Dennis
03-29-2009, 09:51 AM
If it had also touched the cueball AFTER the illegitimate outcome, you give up option of ball in hand.

.


NFS,

You do realize that he's referring to a one-pocket game don't you?
NH Steve
03-29-2009, 10:42 AM
I'm hoping Sactown Tom replies :)

This reminds me of a similar story that Weenie Beenie told. He was bent over his opponent's pocket shooting when there was a ball hanging in the opponent's pocket (his opponent's game ball), when Beenie accidentally brushed the hanging ball into his opponent's pocket. They were playing these same rules, where the opponent has the choice of replacing the ball where it originally was, or leaving it where Beenie had bumped it. Since it was his opponent's game ball, naturally the opponent said he would leave it where it landed -- "Rack 'em up!"
gulfportdoc
03-29-2009, 11:01 AM
...What Is The Ruling??
According to onepocket.org rules, which in turn refer to World Standardized Rule 1.16.1, the shot is a foul, because accidentally moving the hanging ball affected the outcome of the shot:

"In short, if the accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul."

So the banked ball spots up, along with a ball for the foul.

What's interesting is what happens to the moved ball? The rule seems to say that if the match is refereed, then the referee would restore the hanging ball to its original position. However in a non-refereed match, the opponent gets to decide whether to leave the ball in its new position, or to restore it to where was.

In this case, I'll guess that the opponent would opt to leave the previously hanging ball in its new position...:D

Doc
SactownTom
03-29-2009, 08:08 PM
Knocking a ball into your pocket on your bank shot, affected the outcome of the bank. Foul.

The banked ball going into your pocket on the foul, spots backup

A ball owed for the foul spots

This would mean that the foul would bring up 3 balls, two to be spotted and one that would either be restored or spotted.

If the question is to restore or spot:

The ball that was knocked in has to be spotted. No decision to the non-shooting player. Citing the rule that all balls pocketed illegally are spotted.

I don't particularly like this as the shooting players seems to be over penalized for accidentally moving the ball into the pocket. Yet the non-shooting player may be celebrating his fortunes.

What if the ball in the pocket that was accidentally knocked in was the game ball. Would you restore that ball or spot it?

I would like to hear more discussion on this particular situation. The rules seem to cover it, but too much weight in either direction is not in the spirit of the game IMO.
Cowboy Dennis
03-29-2009, 08:24 PM
Knocking a ball into your pocket on your bank shot, affected the outcome of the bank. Foul.



.


Not to argue with your decision Tom, and I'm sure the ruling would still be the same, but he did not knock the ball into his pocket, he knocked it away. It still affected the outcome of the bank however.
SactownTom
03-29-2009, 08:50 PM
That would make the ruling easier.

Non shooting player can either have it restored or keep it in place. I guess that would make the call a no-brainer

Not to argue with your decision Tom, and I'm sure the ruling would still be the same, but he did not knock the ball into his pocket, he knocked it away. It still affected the outcome of the bank however.
skunkboy
03-30-2009, 08:59 AM
That would make the ruling easier.

Non shooting player can either have it restored or keep it in place. I guess that would make the call a no-brainer

gulfportdoc also referred to this rule. I have to say that this is one rule that really gets my goat:( :mad: . If I accidentally move a ball, fine, I might loose my turn, but why does the opponent get any choice as to where the moved OB goes???!!!:eek::confused: You should be required to restore it back to as near as possible to its original location...there should be no choice.

Well, that's how I feel about that.;)

With regard to this example...I agree with the ruling as finally discussed...Foul, two balls spotted and the moved OB needs to be replaced where it was.

L8R...Ken
SactownTom
03-30-2009, 01:48 PM
I know as a ref and/or TD you are not suppose to let prior experiences influence your decisions.

But, if the shooter has a reputation of 'puttin' on moves' during play, can his past subconsciously influence your decision. I know I have had to deal with this among some players and it is very difficult to maintain the fairness to someone you might think is trying to make a move.

'Biting my tongue' can cause bleeding.
newfosgatesucks
03-30-2009, 03:49 PM
That would make the ruling easier.

Non shooting player can either have it restored or keep it in place. I guess that would make the call a no-brainer


You Cannot restore the ball, because it was in an interfering path with a moving ball. It gets spotted. You can only restore a ball if it didnt interfere with an executed foul, to my knowledge.....
SactownTom
03-30-2009, 05:51 PM
Please read section 6 of the One Pocket.org rules. It isn't as easy as some might think.

If you have any questions please post them here.

You Cannot restore the ball, because it was in an interfering path with a moving ball. It gets spotted. You can only restore a ball if it didnt interfere with an executed foul, to my knowledge.....
gulfportdoc
03-30-2009, 08:37 PM
You Cannot restore the ball, because it was in an interfering path with a moving ball. It gets spotted. You can only restore a ball if it didnt interfere with an executed foul, to my knowledge.....
Yeah, check the rules, NFG. The ball hanging in the pocket must be restored because the player accidentally knocked it away.

Doc