Makin' Mistakes

[Cowboy Dennis]

When I saw the Ronnie Allen vs Danny DiLiberto match in 1988, the thing that struck me the most was the missed shots. I know RA was past his prime and it was terribly humid in there. But I felt better about my own game when I realized that we all miss. But Ronnie and Danny almost always shot the correct shot. You can still do that all of the time.

I've just finished watching "Strawberry" Brooks vs Joyner from 1995. It was nice to see Brooks play. I had never seen him before. It looked like he was going to win 4 games in a row the way the match started.

I know Cliff was still in the process of getting better. But some of the shots that they both chose to shoot were strange to say the least. I guess as long human beings aren't perfect, they will shoot the wrong shots.

I suppose we will still stumble over the correct shot or not see a great opportunity from time to time. It's nice to see great player's shotmaking abilities, but still know that they sometimes misthink, just like the rest of us.

Then I made the mistake of putting in the Daulton vs Deuel match from 2000. I almost took the dvd out of the player and frisbeed it into the backyard when Deuel open broke the first game. I know he was a nine-ball player at the time but I hope his break has gotten more serious. Still, he scratched three times in the game and Daulton still lost it. And Daulton shot what we call "the correct shot" all of the time.

One-pocket is a strange game. A guy open breaks, scratches 3 times in the game, shoots the wrong shot 30% of the time, and still wins. Against a solid player who shoots the right shots. I guess we can all feel better about our games.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

When I saw the Ronnie Allen vs Danny DiLiberto match in 1988, the thing that struck me the most was the missed shots. I know RA was past his prime and it was terribly humid in there. But I felt better about my own game when I realized that we all miss. But Ronnie and Danny almost always shot the correct shot. You can still do that all of the time.

I've just finished watching "Strawberry" Brooks vs Joyner from 1995. It was nice to see Brooks play. I had never seen him before. It looked like he was going to win 4 games in a row the way the match started.

I know Cliff was still in the process of getting better. But some of the shots that they both chose to shoot were strange to say the least. I guess as long human beings aren't perfect, they will shoot the wrong shots.

I suppose we will still stumble over the correct shot or not see a great opportunity from time to time. It's nice to see great player's shotmaking abilities, but still know that they sometimes misthink, just like the rest of us.

Then I made the mistake of putting in the Daulton vs Deuel match from 2000. I almost took the dvd out of the player and frisbeed it into the backyard when Deuel open broke the first game. I know he was a nine-ball player at the time but I hope his break has gotten more serious. Still, he scratched three times in the game and Daulton still lost it. And Daulton shot what we call "the correct shot" all of the time.

One-pocket is a strange game. A guy open breaks, scratches 3 times in the game, shoots the wrong shot 30% of the time, and still wins. Against a solid player who shoots the right shots. I guess we can all feel better about our games. Sobody always wins because thier is a winner in every game. And the reason people shoot the wrong shots is because the dont no the wright shot. And I have not seen a player yet that shoots the wright shots. And If you are not qualified and realy no what the right shot is. How can you Judge what the wright shot is or isnt. The one thing thats 100% nobody playes perfect. BUt you can reach Exelence. And play some games mistake free. When I wright this I am refering to the great players. But thats only if the no how to play that way. Do you no anybody that playes one pocket that way. I dont.

[gulfportdoc]

When I saw the Ronnie Allen vs Danny DiLiberto match in 1988, the thing that struck me the most was the missed shots. I know RA was past his prime and it was terribly humid in there. But I felt better about my own game when I realized that we all miss. But Ronnie and Danny almost always shot the correct shot. You can still do that all of the time.
Perhaps you were there in person to watch the match. It was a great one. I've watched it several times on DVD, and following each viewing I've walked away thinking what an excellent shot maker Diliberto was.

I think Jay Helfert edited out a lot of the "dry" periods in the match. As a matter of fact, sometimes it felt as if it were a highlight reel!

However, on the first day, with those wet playing conditions, I don't think either one of them missed any more frequently than any other top player would have. On the second day it had dried out, and balls were flying in from all over the place.

Even though the score was close, it was obvious to me that RA was the superior 1P player. His abilities had already been a little dulled from years of substance use, and he was quite overweight. In fact Jay commented recently that this was probably RA's last great performance.

Diliberto looked fantastic: slim, tanned, and in shape. He too is a great player, but a shade under RA. Despite Danny's bluster, deep down I don't think he really believed he could beat RA. He had a chance, though. He stayed right with RA for 5 sets!

Doc

[Cowboy Dennis]

Perhaps you were there in person to watch the match. It was a great one. I've watched it several times on DVD, and following each viewing I've walked away thinking what an excellent shot maker Diliberto was.

I think Jay Helfert edited out a lot of the "dry" periods in the match. As a matter of fact, sometimes it felt as if it were a highlight reel!

However, on the first day, with those wet playing conditions, I don't think either one of them missed any more frequently than any other top player would have. On the second day it had dried out, and balls were flying in from all over the place.

Even though the score was close, it was obvious to me that RA was the superior 1P player. His abilities had already been a little dulled from years of substance use, and he was quite overweight. In fact Jay commented recently that this was probably RA's last great performance.

Diliberto looked fantastic: slim, tanned, and in shape. He too is a great player, but a shade under RA. Despite Danny's bluster, deep down I don't think he really believed he could beat RA. He had a chance, though. He stayed right with RA for 5 sets!

Doc


Doc,

I did not mean to imply that I was there for that match. I got the VHS set when it came out. Yes, they both played better as the match progressed, and they stopped sweating so much. The thing they impressed me with was their selection of the correct shot. They both seemed to always know what the shot was and how to hit it correctly. 21 years ago I was still learning to play the game better. I learned a lot from both of them. I have the complete match on tape. If you ever want to see it again in it's entirety just pm me.

Dennis

[SJDinPHX]

When I saw the Ronnie Allen vs Danny DiLiberto match in 1988, the thing that struck me the most was the missed shots. I know RA was past his prime and it was terribly humid in there. But I felt better about my own game when I realized that we all miss. But Ronnie and Danny almost always shot the correct shot. You can still do that all of the time.

I've just finished watching "Strawberry" Brooks vs Joyner from 1995. It was nice to see Brooks play. I had never seen him before. It looked like he was going to win 4 games in a row the way the match started.

I know Cliff was still in the process of getting better. But some of the shots that they both chose to shoot were strange to say the least. I guess as long human beings aren't perfect, they will shoot the wrong shots.

I suppose we will still stumble over the correct shot or not see a great opportunity from time to time. It's nice to see great player's shotmaking abilities, but still know that they sometimes misthink, just like the rest of us.

Then I made the mistake of putting in the Daulton vs Deuel match from 2000. I almost took the dvd out of the player and frisbeed it into the backyard when Deuel open broke the first game. I know he was a nine-ball player at the time but I hope his break has gotten more serious. Still, he scratched three times in the game and Daulton still lost it. And Daulton shot what we call "the correct shot" all of the time.

One-pocket is a strange game. A guy open breaks, scratches 3 times in the game, shoots the wrong shot 30% of the time, and still wins. Against a solid player who shoots the right shots. I guess we can all feel better about our games.

Dennis,

The same thing happened at the DCC 1P final this year. the best player does not always win, no matter how many "wrong shots" his opponent shoots.
That is just the nature of "short race" tournament play.
In a long session for the cash, the cream will, almost always, rise to the top.

Dick <---was often skimmed milk.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Dennis,

The same thing happened at the DCC 1P final this year. the best player does not always win, no matter how many "wrong shots" his opponent shoots.
That is just the nature of "short race" tournament play.
In a long session for the cash, the cream will, almost always, rise to the top.

Dick <---was often skimmed milk.


Dick,

You are correct about long sessions for the cash. This match went the full 7 games and Cory open-broke all 4 of his breaks. In game 7, he made a ball in Shannon's pocket but left him safe. Shannon played a safety and Cory ran 8 & out. But this was 9 years ago. I doubt that Deuel breaks like that now. Especially for cash. Nobody would stake him like that.

DGPDD

[gulfportdoc]

That break shot has been covered at length on older threads. Most of the guys lambasted Duell for using that break. Corey doesn't use that break any more. He stated that the only reason he used it against Shannon was that --since he knew very little about 1P then, and that he could not trade moves with Shannon-- he had to try to put himself in position to run 8 and out. It was the only way he could win.

What broke me up was Shannon's reaction to the Corey's "smack-em" break. He was not only shocked, but he then became angry-- almost as if Corey had disrespected him. I think it actually caused him to lose a game or two.:D

Corey has since learned more about 1P, although I doubt that he'll ever like the game enough to where he'd take the time to improve his game. At least until he gets older, and his 9-ball ability starts to fade.

Doc

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Doc,

I did not mean to imply that I was there for that match. I got the VHS set when it came out. Yes, they both played better as the match progressed, and they stopped sweating so much. The thing they impressed me with was their selection of the correct shot. They both seemed to always know what the shot was and how to hit it correctly. 21 years ago I was still learning to play the game better. I learned a lot from both of them. I have the complete match on tape. If you ever want to see it again in it's entirety just pm me.

DennisHow can you tell If the playeris Shooting the correct SHOT??????

[Cowboy Dennis]

That break shot has been covered at length on older threads. Most of the guys lambasted Duell for using that break. Corey doesn't use that break any more. He stated that the only reason he used it against Shannon was that --since he knew very little about 1P then, and that he could not trade moves with Shannon-- he had to try to put himself in position to run 8 and out. It was the only way he could win.





Doc


Doc,

I've been thinking about this ever since you wrote it. The simple genius of Deuel breaking like this because he knew he couldn't move with Dalton is the sort of thinking that is required of one-pocket players. And I am not saying this because he won. For him to realize his limitations and play to his strengths was a stroke of genius, in my opinion.

And it definitely messed with Daulton's head. 99 times out of 100, Daulton wins that match. Just not on that day.

[gulfportdoc]

Doc,

I've been thinking about this ever since you wrote it. The simple genius of Deuel breaking like this because he knew he couldn't move with Dalton is the sort of thinking that is required of one-pocket players. And I am not saying this because he won. For him to realize his limitations and play to his strengths was a stroke of genius, in my opinion.

And it definitely messed with Daulton's head. 99 times out of 100, Daulton wins that match. Just not on that day.
That was my thinking exactly. Several of the guys were outraged with the brashness of Corey's move, though...:D Deuel has a head on his shoulders, and is a very savvy player. Wasn't he the guy who came up with the soft break in 9 or 10 ball?

He hasn't got much of the limelight lately, due to Shane and others; but he's the type of guy who will use his brain and move on to something else when his game starts to go south. Maybe before then...:cool:

Doc

[One Pocket Ghost]

That break shot has been covered at length on older threads. Most of the guys lambasted Duell for using that break. Corey doesn't use that break any more. He stated that the only reason he used it against Shannon was that --since he knew very little about 1P then, and that he could not trade moves with Shannon-- he had to try to put himself in position to run 8 and out. It was the only way he could win.

What broke me up was Shannon's reaction to the Corey's "smack-em" break. He was not only shocked, but he then became angry-- almost as if Corey had disrespected him. I think it actually caused him to lose a game or two.:D

Corey has since learned more about 1P, although I doubt that he'll ever like the game enough to where he'd take the time to improve his game. At least until he gets older, and his 9-ball ability starts to fade.

Doc



Sorry Doc........Can't let you bring Corey's asinine one pocket break up again, without posting my 'case winning' rebuttal....:cool:....



Doc my friend, with all due respect, I have to strongly disagree with you that there was any valid reason whatsoever for Corey to use that break....

I don't care what Corey said about having to run 8 and out to win - that was just bs - either for future matching up purposes, or to indulge his ego = to invent this break and use it on the center stage-accustats table for all to see and marvel at...:rolleyes:....And realize, Corey wasn't playing a top mover here, like Hopkins or Cooney for example, that would be a different story - this was Shannon, and Shannon's greatest strength isn't moving - it's shooting and banking....

....and also, Corey was NO One Pocket neophyte at that time.

#1. If you just watch the dvd in question, the proof is right there in front of your eyes = AFTER THE BREAK COREY MOVES JUST AS GOOD AS SHANNON FOR THE WHOLE MATCH.

#2. And....Just 3 months after this tournament, usng the normal one pocket break, Corey CAME IN THIRD out of 400 players in the One Pocket at the DCC ! - beating top one pocket players along the way !.....You think maybe he learned the game and how to move in those 3 months ?.....uhh, no.

- Ghost

[Cowboy Dennis]

Ghost,

I don't know the full particulars of Daulton and Deuel the way that you and Doc do. But I just re-watched the first game and kept track of "right shots" and "wrong shots" for Deuel. Not counting the break, or running balls in his pocket I've got Deuel down for about 17 right shots and 5 wrong shots. Including 3 scratches in a pocket. I'm not going to watch and evaluate the rest of the games (7), but that is also about the way I remember the match. Deuel shooting the "wrong" shot about 20% to 30% of the time.

This shot that I've posted is from that first game. Daulton had 7 balls and Deuel had 5 balls, and had just scratched. Daulton had ball in hand and needed one ball and elected to do this. He was shooting at pocket 'A'. I think I may have cut the 10 towards my hole if I needed one. Not to make it, just to get it over there. Shannon was playing scared and was a little jumpy for some reason. And he only needed one ball.


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa1PQcb3Qcxt4eCCa4eBEp2eaXa2eXeP1kQcb4kDxN4kGrj4kbpu4kTvN@

[One Pocket Ghost]

Ghost,

Daulton had ball in hand and needed one ball and elected to do this. He was shooting at pocket 'A'. I think I may have cut the 10 towards my hole if I needed one. Not to make it, just to get it over there.


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa1PQcb3Qcxt4eCCa4eBEp2eaXa2eXeP1kQcb4kDxN4kGrj4kbpu4kTvN@


Well, multi-rail gofer that I am...you know I'm banking that 10 ball 4 rails right into my hole = game over.....:cool:

- Ghost <<<----------- Really wouldn't shoot all of these gofer shots - just laying down a 'tendencies spread' for guys like Dick and John H. to fall for.....;)

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Well, multi-rail gofer that I am...you know I'm banking that 10 ball 4 rails right into my hole = game over.....:cool:

- Ghost <<<----------- Really wouldn't shoot all of these gofer shots - just laying down a 'tendencies spread' for guys like Dick and John H. to fall for.....;) I can teach everyone one of the strongest shots in one pocket from her. I will waite before I give the answer and see if anyone comes up with the answer. Lets her all your answers. And then you will her mein . And if someone comes up with the answer and tells me WHY You get first price. But I will realy be surprised if someone comes up with the answer. I will give you a little clue you can also use it on other one pocket shots and it is very important.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I can teach everyone one of the strongest shots in one pocket from her. I will waite before I give the answer and see if anyone comes up with the answer. Lets her all your answers. And then you will her mein . And if someone comes up with the answer and tells me WHY You get first price. But I will realy be surprised if someone comes up with the answer. I will give you a little clue you can also use it on other one pocket shots and it is very important. This is a important shot more important then players realize. See if you no or can find the answer. If someone comes up with it I will tell you the truth. I will not miss lead you.

[Cowboy Dennis]

For a truckload of Miller Lite, I say this.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa2PJBc3Qcxt4dDNY3dMWj3dXWg2kJBc4kEkK4kbQv4kFMj4kEfg@

[wincardona]

This is a important shot more important then players realize. See if you no or can find the answer. If someone comes up with it I will tell you the truth. I will not miss lead you.

My shot is to shoot the combination bank on the nine. I would position the cue ball about a diamond and a quarter on the head string and apply a half a tip of inside english. The 2 ball should end up to the right of the 10 ball and the 9 ball will give you very good action towards your hole. Cue ball should end up near the center of the head rail. That's my shot and I love it.
Actually you can shoot the shot from where the cue ball is shown.

[Cowboy Dennis]

My shot is to shoot the combination bank on the nine. I would position the cue ball about a diamond and a quarter on the head string and apply a half a tip of inside english. The 2 ball should end up to the right of the 10 ball and the 9 ball will give you very good action towards your hole. Cue ball should end up near the center of the head rail. That's my shot and I love it.
Actually you can shoot the shot from where the cue ball is shown.


wincardona,

You only need one ball and you would move two balls that don't go in his hole? I know I did the same but a truckload of beer may rest on this.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa2PJBc3Qcxt4VATV4VAkV3VDHp4dDNY4dbPt3dRsV2kJBc3kCPS3kGSl2kHxd@

[lll]

my first shot would be to cut the ten and leave the q down table. if the 9 is alittle below the 2, i 2 rail the 2 with stun and alittle left to get the 2 to my hole and leave him froze on the 9.

[wincardona]

wincardona,

You only need one ball and you would move two balls that don't go in his hole? I know I did the same but a truckload of beer may rest on this.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa2PJBc3Qcxt4VATV4VAkV3VDHp4dDNY4dbPt3dRsV2kJBc3kCPS3kGSl2kHxd@

For anyone that doesn't like the way this shot looks, obviously hasn't tried it. As far as shooting two balls that don't go into my opponents hole, is overated, there still in play . After shooting this shot your opponent will not have a return shot, if executed properly. This shot requires very little skills to execute, and as a bonus it happens to be on. I will shoot this shot with ANYONE that chooses another shot, And if anyone that plays my speed wants to choose another shot against this one, I will give them 50% of their money back in a five ahead freeze out. I appoligize for being so challenging, but what would you do if you had the NUTS?:) :) :) :) :)

By the way your path of the cue ball after cotacting the 2 ball is not natural, the cue ball should hit the bottom cusion, then the side cusion, and then naturally (with a little left english)go toward the center of the head rail. Nothing bad can happen to you if executed the way described.

[Cowboy Dennis]

By the way your path of the cue ball after cotacting the 2 ball is not natural, the cue ball should hit the bottom cusion, then the side cusion, and then naturally (with a little left english)go toward the center of the head rail. Nothing bad can happen to you if executed the way described.


wincardona,

In your first post you said hit it with inside. In this post you say hit it with left. Which are both the same. How is the cueball going to the side rail? You have lost me.

Dennis

[wincardona]

wincardona,

In your first post you said hit it with inside. In this post you say hit it with left. Which are both the same. How is the cueball going to the side rail? You have lost me.

Dennis
Cowboy, after contacting the right side of the 2 ball the cue ball will hit the bottom cusion , then the side cusion about 18 inches before the side pocket, then it will travel toward the center of the end rail.

You are probably striking the 2 ball too thinly, try hitting the 2 ball with a fuller hit. Experiment with the hit untill you develope a feel for the shot, then get back with me.

By the way the distance between the 2 ball and the 9 ball, the way I see it is only about 1/8 of an inch at most, correct?

[Cowboy Dennis]

Cowboy, after contacting the right side of the 2 ball the cue ball will hit the bottom cusion , then the side cusion about 18 inches before the side pocket, then it will travel toward the center of the end rail.

You are probably striking the 2 ball too thinly, try hitting the 2 ball with a fuller hit. Experiment with the hit untill you develope a feel for the shot, then get back with me.


More like this I guess? The 2 and 9 did look to be very close but not touching. An eigth of an inch sounds about right.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa2PJBc3Qcxt4VATV4VAkV3VDHp4dDNY4dbPt3dRsV2kJBc3kBqK3kLpj3kapB2kEWG@

[wincardona]

More like this I guess? The 2 and 9 did look to be very close but not touching. An eigth of an inch sounds about right.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa2PJBc3Qcxt4VATV4VAkV3VDHp4dDNY4dbPt3dRsV2kJBc3kBqK3kLpj3kapB2kEWG@

Exactly, you can move the cue ball 3 or 4 inches to the left for your starting position, you may develope a better feel for the shot from that position. Quite often the 9 ball will contact the 2 ball and send the 2 ball toward your pocket, but keep in mind the cue ball is the important part of this shot. The 9 and the 2 will take care of themselves.:cool: :cool:

[wincardona]

Exactly, you can move the cue ball 3 or 4 inches to the left for your starting position, you may develope a better feel for the shot from that position. Quite often the 9 ball will contact the 2 ball and send the 2 ball toward your pocket, but keep in mind the cue ball is the important part of this shot. The 9 and the 2 will take care of themselves.:cool: :cool:
After contact the 9 ball will throw at least an inch down from where it is aiming, creating an angle toward your pocket. This shot is a no brainer.

[gulfportdoc]

This shot that I've posted is from that first game. Daulton had 7 balls and Deuel had 5 balls, and had just scratched. Daulton had ball in hand and needed one ball and elected to do this. He was shooting at pocket 'A'. I think I may have cut the 10 towards my hole if I needed one. Not to make it, just to get it over there. Shannon was playing scared and was a little jumpy for some reason. And he only needed one ball.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa1PQcb3Qcxt4eCCa4eBEp2eaXa2eXeP1kQcb4kDxN4kGrj4kbpu4kTvN@
Actually, that's a pretty good shot from Shannon, especially if he left the CB behind the 2 & 9-balls, to where Corey couldn't see the 10-ball uptable. Since Corey needs all three, he knows Corey is going to have to open up all the balls, which gives Shannon lots of opportunities. I don't remember who won that game, but Shannon was a huge favorite from that position.

I can't tell if the 4-railer on the 9-ball is on or not. If so, a guy could shoot it 4 rails and try to stick the CB on the 2-ball. If the 9 winds up near pocket A, then the game is pretty much over.

I like Billy's shot too. Billy, why do you think it's better to leave the CB in the middle of the head rail, rather than leaving it more towards the corner pocket on B's side?

Doc

[Cowboy Dennis]

I don't remember who won that game, but Shannon was a huge favorite from that position.



Doc


Doc,

After leading the game 7-2 for a while, Daulton lost the game.

[vapros]

This is mo' betta, fellas. This is why I lurk here. :D :D

[wincardona]

Actually, that's a pretty good shot from Shannon, especially if he left the CB behind the 2 & 9-balls, to where Corey couldn't see the 10-ball uptable. Since Corey needs all three, he knows Corey is going to have to open up all the balls, which gives Shannon lots of opportunities. I don't remember who won that game, but Shannon was a huge favorite from that position.

I can't tell if the 4-railer on the 9-ball is on or not. If so, a guy could shoot it 4 rails and try to stick the CB on the 2-ball. If the 9 winds up near pocket A, then the game is pretty much over.

I like Billy's shot too. Billy, why do you think it's better to leave the CB in the middle of the head rail, rather than leaving it more towards the corner pocket on B's side?

Doc

Doc, it's easier for your opponent to play a safe, and controll the cue ball when you reposition it toward the B side of the table. It's also easier for him to kick to the side rail in front of your pocket and play safe behind a ball that ends up near your pocket. And it's also easier for him to move balls away from your pocket and leave the cue ball from where he removes the problem ball. It's just a much more difficult position for your opponent to deal with. Position the balls and experiment with the two positions.

[Skin]

My shot. I won't vouch for the precison of the WEI lines but here is generally how it goes.

Use high right and the cb will delay after hitting the 9 and then take off again to strike the 2 (which is nudged out a bit by the 9) at the correct angle to make it, following it down to the rail - good in case the speed or the angle of the strike is a bit off. You just have to make sure the 9 takes the 10 uptable. The shot is dead, though, if you set up on it right.

Skin

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa1PKoa3Qcxt4VATV3VcIt4dDNY4dAfK3dEOj2daTe4eCCa4eDQk1eavp1kKoa4kCoF4kBaR3kQnk@

I see that Dennis said above in the thread that the 2 and 9 are separated. My shot is not on unless they are frozen. I need some WEI eyes to see these WEI tables properly.

There still might be a good angle to make the 2 from with them not frozen. If it is there, I think the 2 to win the game is the shot. Why not just go for the win if he has just handed it to you with bih and the shot is on?

[SJDinPHX]

I am in total agrreement with Billy's shot here. It is the least risky, and the most rewarding from that spot. I would have shot it within 2 seconds of Duell spotting his owed ball.

Center on the rail is better than player B's side of the table Doc, makes the removal of the 9 ball he's faced with much more awkward.

To lose the game from there, Shannon had to have been in a brain dead coma. Of course, there is one "master mover" who has not commited yet. :eek:

[SJDinPHX]

I see that Dennis said above in the thread that the 2 and 9 are separated. My shot is not on unless they are frozen. I need some WEI eyes to see these WEI tables properly.

There still might be a good angle to make the 2 from with them not frozen. If it is there, I think the 2 to win the game is the shot. Why not just go for the win if he has just handed it to you with bih and the shot is on?

Skin,

He has "BIH behind the string". Spot shots are not gimmies are they ? Especially in close quarters. Would you smoke it or slow roll it ? Either way, if you miss, it could be your last shot.
The shot Shannon shot, would be a distant second choice (for me) behind Billy's shot.

[Cowboy Dennis]

This layout is from the same game, several shots later. Deuel still needs three and it's his shot. He banked the 4 and made it and then was faced with a choice of shooting the 9 or the 10 ball. I'm not sure what I would do there myself. I've shown what he did in this layout. There are 4 pages.

Would you shoot the 9 or the 10 after making the 4 ball?

P.S. I'm showing these shots from seeing them on my t.v. screen. They are very close to where the balls were.

Dick, just saw your comment to Skin. There was no spot shot available. Daulton probably was happy for that as he had just missed one a few shots previous to my original layout. And with no chance to sellout also.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2DIWI4IATY2JKbg3PRBq2XIWI2XGrl4XdOp3kRBq2kJLt2kOKj2kabv2kQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH2eKbg2eKSr4eRlh4eYlS2kQDH2kLxU2kOrm2kakG2kVKh@4DdOp4IATY4JYlS2PVKh@

[androd]

This layout is from the same game, several shots later. Deuel still needs three and it's his shot. He banked the 4 and made it and then was faced with a choice of shooting the 9 or the 10 ball. I'm not sure what I would do there myself. I've shown what he did in this layout. There are 4 pages.

Would you shoot the 9 or the 10 after making the 4 ball?

P.S. I'm showing these shots from seeing them on my t.v. screen. They are very close to where the balls were.

Dick, just saw your comment to Skin. There was no spot shot available. Daulton probably was happy for that as he had just missed one a few shots previous to my original layout. And with no chance to sellout also.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2DIWI4IATY2JKbg3PRBq2XIWI2XGrl4XdOp3kRBq2kJLt2kOKj2kabv2kQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH2eKbg2eKSr4eRlh4eYlS2kQDH2kLxU2kOrm2kakG2kVKh@4DdOp4IATY4JYlS2PVKh@

I always try to get in the one hole when possible, although I'm thinking Daulton didn't get the 10 ball very close.
Rod. <--- woulda had the 10 close on the WEI table.

[lll]

This layout is from the same game, several shots later. Deuel still needs three and it's his shot. He banked the 4 and made it and then was faced with a choice of shooting the 9 or the 10 ball. I'm not sure what I would do there myself. I've shown what he did in this layout. There are 4 pages.

Would you shoot the 9 or the 10 after making the 4 ball?

P.S. I'm showing these shots from seeing them on my t.v. screen. They are very close to where the balls were.

Dick, just saw your comment to Skin. There was no spot shot available. Daulton probably was happy for that as he had just missed one a few shots previous to my original layout. And with no chance to sellout also.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@2DIWI4IATY2JKbg3PRBq2XIWI2XGrl4XdOp3kRBq2kJLt2kOKj2kabv2kQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH@4DdOp4IATY2JKbg2PQDH2eKbg2eKSr4eRlh4eYlS2kQDH2kLxU2kOrm2kakG2kVKh@4DdOp4IATY4JYlS2PVKh@ shoot the ten next.

[wincardona]

I always try to get in the one hole when possible, although I'm thinking Daulton didn't get the 10 ball very close.
Rod. <--- woulda had the 10 close on the WEI table.

This is a very close decision for just about any player, whether to bank the ten or shoot the nine. It's clear if your betting that you WILL run out from here, you bank the ten, reason being that in order to run out you need to bank the ten in either case.So you should bank it now when you have a perfect look at it, and from a distance that is not intimidating. But that's not the situation your confronted with is it? No, so what do you do? This is a very close call especially for a top player, because a top player will pocket the nine at least 3 out of 4 times, when a lesser player may only pocket the nine 2 out of 4 times. And like Rodney said, he likes to get into the one hole.If I were a player that would pocket the nine 2 out of 4 times or less, I would bank the ten. And as a top player, well depending on how I was feeling at that time would be what I would base my decision off of. Top players can win more games than lesser players when they need 2 balls to their opponents one. So they would be more inclined to bank the 10, especially if they feel that they will hit it good enough to either pocket the ball or hang it.
But for a top player it's a close call.:confused:

Oh, by the way if you bank the 10 you must hit it with pocket speed, because if missed you don't want to leave a return shot.

[androd]

This is a very close decision for just about any player, whether to bank the ten or shoot the nine. It's clear if your betting that you WILL run out from here, you bank the ten, reason being that in order to run out you need to bank the ten in either case.So you should bank it now when you have a perfect look at it, and from a distance that is not intimidating. But that's not the situation your confronted with is it? No, so what do you do? This is a very close call especially for a top player, because a top player will pocket the nine at least 3 out of 4 times, when a lesser player may only pocket the nine 2 out of 4 times. And like Rodney said, he likes to get into the one hole.If I were a player that would pocket the nine 2 out of 4 times or less, I would bank the ten. And as a top player, well depending on how I was feeling at that time would be what I would base my decision off of. Top players can win more games than lesser players when they need 2 balls to their opponents one. So they would be more inclined to bank the 10, especially if they feel that they will hit it good enough to either pocket the ball or hang it.
But for a top player it's a close call.:confused:

Oh, by the way if you bank the 10 you must hit it with pocket speed, because if missed you don't want to leave a return shot.

Yes I agree, I was amazed how far Daulton missed the bank. When you page thru the layout Dennis put up, it shows where the bank on the 10 ball ended.
Rod. <--- has pocket speed if not much else.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Yes I agree, I was amazed how far Daulton missed the bank. When you page thru the layout Dennis put up, it shows where the bank on the 10 ball ended.
Rod. <--- has pocket speed if not much else.


Rod,

It was Deuel's turn at the table. He made the first bank but then missed the other as I showed. He needed all three and won the game anyway.

P.S. Are we all going to be seeing some curvy shots from you soon?



Dennis.

[androd]

Rod,

It was Deuel's turn at the table. He made the first bank but then missed the other as I showed. He needed all three and won the game anyway.

P.S. Are we all going to be seeing some curvy shots from you soon?



Dennis.

OOPS, Well I don't know how he missed it that far either, but if he wasn't playing one pocket at that time, maybe pocket speed got in his way.
Rod. < ---i'm thinking about curving one, now that I know how, thanks.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Of course, there is one "master mover" who has not commited yet. :eek:


What is it that makes you think he should be committed? I'm waiting on another truckload of Miller Lite, but I think wincardona's shot is the nuts.

[gulfportdoc]

Top players can win more games than lesser players when they need 2 balls to their opponents one. So they would be more inclined to bank the 10, especially if they feel that they will hit it good enough to either pocket the ball or hang it.
But for a top player it's a close call.:confused:
You're probably right about it being a close call for top players. But for the vast majority of 1P players, the shot is the 9-ball. It's laying at almost a perfect 1/2 ball hit, which brings the CB back to roughly the same position in which it began. Then a pocket speed shot on the 10-ball becomes much easier with the 9 gone. And the shooter misses it, the opponent would probably have no offensive shot, nor even a strong safety.

Doc

[wincardona]

You're probably right about it being a close call for top players. But for the vast majority of 1P players, the shot is the 9-ball. It's laying at almost a perfect 1/2 ball hit, which brings the CB back to roughly the same position in which it began. Then a pocket speed shot on the 10-ball becomes much easier with the 9 gone. And the shooter misses it, the opponent would probably have no offensive shot, nor even a strong safety.

Doc

Doc, if the hit is easy and the cue ball returns to the approx same position that you shoot the 9 from than there is no decision for the top player, he must shoot the 9. But the way I see the shot, inside english must be applied to get back to the same position, making the pocketing of the ball more difficult, and also the speed of the shot. Keep in mind if you shoot the 9 and over cut it, the speed will be a sell out. There was a reason why the pro who was confronted with this choice banked the 10.

[wincardona]

Doc, if the hit is easy and the cue ball returns to the approx same position that you shoot the 9 from than there is no decision for the top player, he must shoot the 9. But the way I see the shot, inside english must be applied to get back to the same position, making the pocketing of the ball more difficult, and also the speed of the shot. Keep in mind if you shoot the 9 and over cut it, the speed will be a sell out. There was a reason why the pro who was confronted with this choice banked the 10.

Doc, am I mistaken that a weaker player will and should bank the 10 from this position? My reason for believing this is, a weaker player will sell out much more than a top player shooting the 9. And also the bank on the 10 isn't that much more difficult of a shot, it seems to be straight in with very little chance of selling out if missed. I would like to hear from some B and C players on which shot they prefer.

[Skin]

Doc, am I mistaken that a weaker player will and should bank the 10 from this position? My reason for believing this is, a weaker player will sell out much more than a top player shooting the 9. And also the bank on the 10 isn't that much more difficult of a shot, it seems to be straight in with very little chance of selling out if missed. I would like to hear from some B and C players on which shot they prefer.


I would shoot the 10 because I like the position to continue the run coming off that shot better than the position coming off the 9. And I like moving the 10 off the easy bank line into his pocket.

Skin <-- an "I" (Incomplete) player

[lll]

i prefer the ten because it "lays right" , the cue ball is closer, should be able to play it pocket speed and get shape on the nine, and i like these type of bank shots. taking the ten ball bank away from my opponent is another reason. last i put 2 balls into play for me

[gulfportdoc]

Doc, if the hit is easy and the cue ball returns to the approx same position that you shoot the 9 from than there is no decision for the top player, he must shoot the 9. But the way I see the shot, inside english must be applied to get back to the same position, making the pocketing of the ball more difficult, and also the speed of the shot. Keep in mind if you shoot the 9 and over cut it, the speed will be a sell out. There was a reason why the pro who was confronted with this choice banked the 10.
Yes, and the pro (Corey Deuel) missed the 10-ball bank. The 9-ball would have been a hanger for him. Then he would have had the same shot on the 10-ball, only needing one ball.

I'm a mediocre player. Yet I would make that 9-ball shot 3 or 4 times out of 5. The CB can be brought right back up table with no english for the next shot. The 10-ball bank I'd make only 1 time out of 5. The selection would be easy for me.

The larger question would be: would the probable miss on the opening 10-ball bank be worth it when considering the strategic advantage that resulted? Maybe so.

Doc

[gulfportdoc]

I can teach everyone one of the strongest shots in one pocket from her. I will waite before I give the answer and see if anyone comes up with the answer. Lets her all your answers. And then you will her mein . And if someone comes up with the answer and tells me WHY You get first price. But I will realy be surprised if someone comes up with the answer. I will give you a little clue you can also use it on other one pocket shots and it is very important.
Artie, did you forget your promise to let us know about the strong shot you had in mind here? I'd like to see it.

Doc

[NH Steve]

Doc, am I mistaken that a weaker player will and should bank the 10 from this position? My reason for believing this is, a weaker player will sell out much more than a top player shooting the 9. And also the bank on the 10 isn't that much more difficult of a shot, it seems to be straight in with very little chance of selling out if missed. I would like to hear from some B and C players on which shot they prefer.
I put myself in the "B" class, and I would definitely be looking at the bank (as long as it is off the rail enough not to offer the risk of a double kiss). Those damn spot shots -- you cannot just roll them safely, because you leave a total duck of a cross-corner if you miss! Spot shots are not "free" unless you can make them real consistently, even after the usual half hour of bunting and ducking that seems to always precede them :D

[Cowboy Dennis]

To me, the shot would be a 50/50 decision. The thing that would sway me to banking the 10 would be that I had just hit the 4 good and made it, and the 10 is on just about the same line. And the 10 was plenty off the rail. I did not realize how close I put it until after I posted the layout. My mistake there.

[gulfportdoc]

Some of y'all need to practice your spot shots.:D Eddie Robin told me that a guy can't be a good one-pocket player unless he can make spot shots something like 90% of the time.

Doc

[SJDinPHX]

Some of y'all need to practice your spot shots.:D Eddie Robin told me that a guy can't be a good one-pocket player unless he can make spot shots something like 90% of the time.

Doc

Doc,

Very questionable reference there. Nice guy that Eddie was, and with all he contributed to our game, he would be a severe underdog to make 50% of HIS spot shots.
So you may be quoting a guy who just dreads spot shots. Whats your point ? ;)

Dick <---on the other hand, has NEVER, ever missed a spot shot.

PS... I do not believe in Lie Detectors. :eek:

[lll]

based on who is calling themselves b players i am probably c ( maybe b knowledge)

[Cowboy Dennis]

Some of y'all need to practice your spot shots.:D Eddie Robin told me that a guy can't be a good one-pocket player unless he can make spot shots something like 90% of the time.

Doc


Doc,

If Eddie Robin was talking about spot shots with BIH behind the line, I'd say he was low with only 90%.

It's not fear of missing the 9 that would make me probably shoot the 10. It's that I need it to win anyway and since I'm in the neighborhood, well. I figure why play position on the same ball twice. Especially when, if I make it, I'll be looking at the same angle on the 9 anyway.

Still, I don't think anybody could be faulted for taking either shot that they chose. But if my opponent was shooting, I'd rather see him shooting the 9. He just rolled in the 4 from the same type position and then doesn't want to shoot another one? That goes in my file.

[lll]

Doc,

If Eddie Robin was talking about spot shots with BIH behind the line, I'd say he was low with only 90%.

It's not fear of missing the 9 that would make me probably shoot the 10. It's that I need it to win anyway and since I'm in the neighborhood, well. I figure why play position on the same ball twice. Especially when, if I make it, I'll be looking at the same angle on the 9 anyway.

Still, I don't think anybody could be faulted for taking either shot that they chose. But if my opponent was shooting, I'd rather see him shooting the 9. He just rolled in the 4 from the same type position and then doesn't want to shoot another one? That goes in my file. dennis, the last 2 lines and the point you make are very important to me. watch what your opponent passes up to learn his preferences and know later what shots to leave.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie, did you forget your promise to let us know about the strong shot you had in mind here? I'd like to see it.

Doc Could you put the diagram back up so I can Explain it correctly. Because its hard to explain with out the diagram.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Could you put the diagram back up so I can Explain it correctly. Because its hard to explain with out the diagram.


This is the original layout Artie. Daulton had ball-in-hand. He had pocket A.

He needed one ball to win the game.



http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa1PADd3Qcxt@

[Artie Bodendorfer]

This is the original layout Artie. Daulton had ball-in-hand. He had pocket A.

He needed one ball to win the game.



http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa1PADd3Qcxt@ Ok Her We Go It Would be a lot better and a lot stronger with ony two balls. And I will Tell you what I would do to make it as hard as posable for my opponent. And Like I said this is not a very good angle to start out with . If I could do what you do with you illustations it would be great. But I cant do what you do. So I will explain it were you will be asble to show everyone what I mean. In this situation I would but the 9 ball two ball and cue ball on the same line or track. So he cant shoot the nine ball two rails to pocket b and keep all three balls in play. But because of the ten ball being thier he will shoot the 10 ball and play safe. BUt you acomplished geting the three ball out of play were he can bank a ball and have a easy run out on the three balls. BUt I will give you a perfect exampel. If the cue ball was more to the left of were it is and their are only two balls on the table. And You need one ball. I would shoot the nine ball twords the end rail. Were the two ball and nine ball and cue ball froze on the rail in the same line And to play safe from that position is very hard to play safe without giving up a shot. Set the balls up and if its not the way the balls should be I will tell you. Playing one pocke having the two object balls and cue ball in the same line will force your opponent to make a mistake. And thats what You have to try to do. And If you have a ball on the first dimond a half a dimond away from the side rail and the other object ball by the second dimond andin line with the second ball and cue ballfroze to the end table. you are in a great position. Any time you can get all the two balls and the cue ball in the same line. Your Opponent has big problems. And Even when you play safe and shoot the cue ball down the end rail. If you can put the two balls and cue ball in the same line he has serious problems. And It works great. I have used it my whole life and I have never seen anyone else try to do it. If it happened to turn out that way for them it was a accedent. Because I could tell by other situations that the could do that and the turned it down and shot a different shot. Becuse the didnt no. And I am sure some players will reply and say. I do that to. But if I ask them and set up the situation. The would not have given the correct answer and why. I hope the shot wins you a tournement. Because you will see players stating to use it know that its out. Enjoy it it will win you many games.

[Cowboy Dennis]

BUt I will give you a perfect exampel. If the cue ball was more to the left of were it is and their are only two balls on the table. And You need one ball. I would shoot the nine ball twords the .


Artie,

He has CUEBALL IN HAND. Anywhere behind the line. Tell me what you want to do and I'll post it for you.

Dennis

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie,

He has CUEBALL IN HAND. Anywhere behind the line. Tell me what you want to do and I'll post it for you.

Dennis Ok Dennis her we go. Maybe I should have wrote it in German. But that wouldnt have been any better. The 2 ball is on the spot. the nine ball is a half a ball to the 2 ball straight accross. The cue ball is about three quaters to the left of were it is on the table. The two ball does not move the nineball you shoot if front of the two ball in the middle of the pocket. A half of a dimond to the right of the two ball and the cue ball ends up on the rail to the left off the two ball froze. All three balls are at the same angle were the player cannot hit see the nine ball. That is the key off the whole shot. Thier is no ten ball on the table. This shot comes up meny times. When you leave you opponent on the end rail and the two balls are in line with each other he cannot move the ball thats in front of the other ball. Unlees he tryies a silly kick shot. This shot will win you a buntch of games. ANd I even use it when my opponent has a ball a dimond away from his pocket. I take away his good shot and give him a combination. And then Leave him on the end rail to get out of the trap.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Ok Dennis her we go. Maybe I should have wrote it in German. But that wouldnt have been any better. The 2 ball is on the spot. the nine ball is a half a ball to the 2 ball straight accross. The cue ball is about three quaters to the left of were it is on the table. The two ball does not move the nineball you shoot if front of the two ball in the middle of the pocket. A half of a dimond to the right of the two ball and the cue ball ends up on the rail to the left off the two ball froze. All three balls are at the same angle were the player cannot hit see the nine ball. That is the key off the whole shot. Thier is no ten ball on the table. This shot comes up meny times. When you leave you opponent on the end rail and the two balls are in line with each other he cannot move the ball thats in front of the other ball. Unlees he tryies a silly kick shot. This shot will win you a buntch of games. ANd I even use it when my opponent has a ball a dimond away from his pocket. I take away his good shot and give him a combination. And then Leave him on the end rail to get out of the trap.


Artie,

I don't know if it makes a difference but the 9 is not straight across from the 2. It's a little below it. I'll try to figure out the layout that you want and then I'll post it.



Artie, is this the shot that you are referring to? Or close to it?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BHXK4IDNY3PRli3Qcxt4VATV3VDYk3VHXK1kTmd4kBaG3kbAr3kRli@

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie,

I don't know if it makes a difference but the 9 is not straight across from the 2. It's a little below it. I'll try to figure out the layout that you want and then I'll post it.

Dennis The nine ball is Ok were it is. Anywere around the two ball on the left of the two ball is good. It can even be far apart. But the resulte has to be for all 3 balls being in the same angle.

[Cowboy Dennis]

The nine ball is Ok were it is. Anywere around the two ball on the left of the two ball is good. It can even be far apart. But the resulte has to be for all 3 balls being in the same angle.


Like this Artie?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BHXK4IDNY3PRli3Qcxt4VATV3VDYk3VHXK1kTmd4kBaG3kbAr3kRli@

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Like this Artie?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BHXK4IDNY3PRli3Qcxt4VATV3VDYk3VHXK1kTmd4kBaG3kbAr3kRli@ I have pocket A and Its My Shot. And The Cue Ball is A half a dimond from the nine ball. I shoot the Nine ball to the right side of the two ball. And The Cue Ball Is A Half of a Dimond to the left of the two ball froze on the rail. In Line With the two object balls. The Cue ball is to the left of the two ball. This showes the cue ball to the right of the two ball. When you shoot the nine ball you bank it Like You Are Going to bank it to thhe first dimond thats the angle. And The Two ball blocks you from hitting the nine ball. ANd All You Are Doing Is Rolling the nine ball bast the two ball and leaving all three balls at the same angle. Once we get it correct. Thier will be other great spots to shot this shot . And I will tell you when it comes up.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I have pocket A and Its My Shot. And The Cue Ball is A half a dimond from the nine ball. I shoot the Nine ball to the right side of the two ball. And The Cue Ball Is A Half of a Dimond to the left of the two ball froze on the rail. In Line With the two object balls. The Cue ball is to the left of the two ball. This showes the cue ball to the right of the two ball. When you shoot the nine ball you bank it Like You Are Going to bank it to thhe first dimond thats the angle. And The Two ball blocks you from hitting the nine ball. ANd All You Are Doing Is Rolling the nine ball bast the two ball and leaving all three balls at the same angle. Once we get it correct. Thier will be other great spots to shot this shot . And I will tell you when it comes up. You have the correct alinment of the three balls. All you have to do is change it to the other side. And But the nineball going twords the other end of the table. Just roll the nine ball past the two ball and have the same aliment of the three balls.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

You have the correct alinment of the three balls. All you have to do is change it to the other side. And But the nineball going twords the other end of the table. Just roll the nine ball past the two ball and have the same aliment of the three balls. And Start with the cue ball only a quater or a half a dimomd to the left.

[Cowboy Dennis]

I have pocket A and Its My Shot. And The Cue Ball is A half a dimond from the nine ball. I shoot the Nine ball to the right side of the two ball. And The Cue Ball Is A Half of a Dimond to the left of the two ball froze on the rail. In Line With the two object balls. The Cue ball is to the left of the two ball. This showes the cue ball to the right of the two ball. When you shoot the nine ball you bank it Like You Are Going to bank it to thhe first dimond thats the angle. And The Two ball blocks you from hitting the nine ball. ANd All You Are Doing Is Rolling the nine ball bast the two ball and leaving all three balls at the same angle. Once we get it correct. Thier will be other great spots to shot this shot . And I will tell you when it comes up.


Artie,

Tell me if this is closer to what you want.



http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV3IOeX4PUnj3Qcxt4dDNY3dIOj3dOeX2kPme4kEcJ4kbQl4kUnj@

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie,

Tell me if this is closer to what you want.



http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV3IOeX4PUnj3Qcxt4dDNY3dIOj3dOeX2kPme4kEcJ4kbQl4kUnj@ Thats A lote Better. But The Cue Ball Should be only a half a dimond from the center of the table. And the nine ball is ca clooser angele to the two ball. And The Nine ball about another dimond further up the table. But we are a lot closer. And What You have now would be a hard place to play safe from. But When You see the different positions and longer distance . You will realy learn to love the strength of this shot. If You get the three balls correct. You will get a free shot. It realy puts your opponent in a tough spot. And Its Even worse for a weeker player.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Thats A lote Better. But The Cue Ball Should be only a half a dimond from the center of the table. And the nine ball is ca clooser angele to the two ball. And The Nine ball about another dimond further up the table. But we are a lot closer. And What You have now would be a hard place to play safe from. But When You see the different positions and longer distance . You will realy learn to love the strength of this shot. If You get the three balls correct. You will get a free shot. It realy puts your opponent in a tough spot. And Its Even worse for a weeker player.


Artie,

How's this?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY2PHud3Qcxt4dDNY3dBUk2dKlB2kHud4kEkK4kbRE4kLhi@

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie,

How's this?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY2PHud3Qcxt4dDNY3dBUk2dKlB2kHud4kEkK4kbRE4kLhi@ That would be the correct way to shoot it from were the Cue ball is att. But The Cue Ball Is on the other side of the table. About a half a dimond to the left of the two ball. I think the next one. Will Hit The jack pot.

[Cowboy Dennis]

That would be the correct way to shoot it from were the Cue ball is att. But The Cue Ball Is on the other side of the table. About a half a dimond to the left of the two ball. I think the next one. Will Hit The jack pot.


This ought to do it then. Let me know.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY1PIDc3Qcxt4dDNY3dBEl2dKle1kIDc4kELI4kMGi@

[Artie Bodendorfer]

This ought to do it then. Let me know.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY1PIDc3Qcxt4dDNY3dBEl2dKle1kIDc4kELI4kMGi@ Thats Gin. And you can even but the cue ball ilittle bit closer twords the two ball. But Thats it . And when you see it yand remember it you will see the situation to use it when it comes up. The Red light will come on. Thanks For Giving your time and patience. You will make a good one pocket player. Because anybody that doesnt give up what the are doing tell the get it correct. Has the correct mentale attitude. I hope your hard work pays of for the players who want to learn. Its Ok for some of you other people on the site to thank Dennis for doing this. He didnt have to do it he did it because he wanted to.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Thats Gin. And you can even but the cue ball ilittle bit closer twords the two ball. But Thats it . And when you see it yand remember it you will see the situation to use it when it comes up. The Red light will come on. Thanks For Giving your time and patience. You will make a good one pocket player. Because anybody that doesnt give up what the are doing tell the get it correct. Has the correct mentale attitude. I hope your hard work pays of for the players who want to learn. Its Ok for some of you other people on the site to thank Dennis for doing this. He didnt have to do it he did it because he wanted to.


Artie,

I now know the shot you were referencing. Thanks for being patient and explaining it. You do realize that the 10 ball was on the table for this shot. Would this change your thinking?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa1PFqc3Qcxt4dDNY3dCSl2dPcL1kFqc4kEcK4kMnd@

Dennis

[Cowboy Dennis]

This type of shot does come up quite often. Here's the most frequent example that I can think of.

You have pocket 'A' and need one or two balls.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BUSh4KPmK4PFMR4QdGu3VUSh3VapR1VApe4kFMR3kRpj2kagy2kUNN@

[Artie Bodendorfer]

This type of shot does come up quite often. Here's the most frequent example that I can think of.

You have pocket 'A' and need one or two balls.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BUSh4KPmK4PFMR4QdGu3VUSh3VapR1VApe4kFMR3kRpj2kagy2kUNN@ Very good Dennis You have the right Idea. You dont want to shoot the two ball to the rail. One More thing you dont want the balls to be real close to each other either. Because he can shot them both to his side of the table. And You could leave him a good kiss shot to his pocket. But if you work with it and you can but a ball inbetween the first two dimonds and the second ball in be tween the center of the table and the cue ball on the end rail . You will not get away with out leaving a shot. If all 3 balls are in the same aliment. You can use this theory in many situations. I will show you spots to use it as other situations come up.

[wincardona]

Artie,

I now know the shot you were referencing. Thanks for being patient and explaining it. You do realize that the 10 ball was on the table for this shot. Would this change your thinking?

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa1PFqc3Qcxt4dDNY3dCSl2dPcL1kFqc4kEcK4kMnd@

Dennis

With the shooter needing one ball, regardless if there are 2 or three balls left, you will win more games by banking the 9 ball toward your pocket.The reason is that after you bank the nine ball toward yor pocket your opponent will not have a shot to put you in trouble. Matter of fact he will be looking to get out of trouble, if he can. So consequently he will try to move balls up table, needing all the remaining balls. If he even has an opportunity to shoot another shot, which is no guarantee.

[Cowboy Dennis]

With the shooter needing one ball, regardless if there are 2 or three balls left, you will win more games by banking the 9 ball toward your pocket.The reason is that after you bank the nine ball toward yor pocket your opponent will not have a shot to put you in trouble. Matter of fact he will be looking to get out of trouble, if he can. So consequently he will try to move balls up table, needing all the remaining balls. If he even has an opportunity to shoot another shot, which is no guarantee.


Bill,

I understand that, but Artie said to suppose the 10 wasn't there. So I set up the WEI to show the 10 not being there for him so he could demonstrate his shot. I only inserted it back into the layout after his last post and he may not have seen it.

Dennis

[Artie Bodendorfer]

With the shooter needing one ball, regardless if there are 2 or three balls left, you will win more games by banking the 9 ball toward your pocket.The reason is that after you bank the nine ball toward yor pocket your opponent will not have a shot to put you in trouble. Matter of fact he will be looking to get out of trouble, if he can. So consequently he will try to move balls up table, needing all the remaining balls. If he even has an opportunity to shoot another shot, which is no guarantee. You can do the same thing with the nine ball and the cue ball. And the ten ball does not hurt you and if you can shoot the nine ball and leave the cue ball closer to the ten it could get worse for youe opponent. And he cant bank the ten ball. And he cant hit the nine ball and thier is very little he can do on his shot. But the shot is played to show the players that you want to get the three balls in line and thier is very little your opponent can do. Without giving up a shot. THat is whwt I wanted to bring out. And you can but two balls in the same line and the cue ball down the end rail . And its a Brutel place to be. I wis I could set up some situations and show how tough it realy gets. But I cant do what Dennis does. So I wont be able to do it . UNtill it comes up and I willPoint it out. Thats why you always have to know were and why you are shooting the object ball were you are shooting the ball. And why you are shooting the cue ball were you are shooting the cue ball not just about her or general direction. KNow why you are doing what you are doing??????

[wincardona]

Bill,

I understand that, but Artie said to suppose the 10 wasn't there. So I set up the WEI to show the 10 not being there for him so he could demonstrate his shot. I only inserted it back into the layout after his last post and he may not have seen it.

Dennis

Dennis I would bank the nine quicker if the 10 ball wasn't there, reason is, that to play to win you must make one ball, why not try now? If someone can explain to me why they wouldn't take a free shot to win from this position, i'll listen to them. Like I said i'll play the bank against anyone, especially if there were only 2 balls left.

[wincardona]

You can do the same thing with the nine ball and the cue ball. And the ten ball does not hurt you and if you can shoot the nine ball and leave the cue ball closer to the ten it could get worse for youe opponent. And he cant bank the ten ball. And he cant hit the nine ball and thier is very little he can do on his shot. But the shot is played to show the players that you want to get the three balls in line and thier is very little your opponent can do. Without giving up a shot. THat is whwt I wanted to bring out. And you can but two balls in the same line and the cue ball down the end rail . And its a Brutel place to be. I wis I could set up some situations and show how tough it realy gets. But I cant do what Dennis does. So I wont be able to do it . UNtill it comes up and I willPoint it out. Thats why you always have to know were and why you are shooting the object ball were you are shooting the ball. And why you are shooting the cue ball were you are shooting the cue ball not just about her or general direction. KNow why you are doing what you are doing??????

Artie, i'm not trying to argue your point, i'm saying from the position referenced I would't hesitate to bank the 9 ball. The goal is to beat your opponent to the shot, and you have an excellent one with no risk, and you will remain in complete controll of the table regardless of how it turns out. Plus you can win with the shot.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Dennis I would bank the nine quicker if the 10 ball wasn't there, reason is, that to play to win you must make one ball, why not try now? If someone can explain to me why they wouldn't take a free shot to win from this position, i'll listen to them. Like I said i'll play the bank against anyone, especially if there were only 2 balls left.



Bill,

After you pointed that shot out I ended up liking it. My first point was that I thought Daulton shot kind of scared by banking the 10 back uptable when he could have knocked something towards his hole. But he did need only one. At first glance, I would at least have cut the 10 toward my hole. But I do like your shot better.

And do not forget, this was 9 years ago. They are both better players now.

Dennis

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Bill,

I understand that, but Artie said to suppose the 10 wasn't there. So I set up the WEI to show the 10 not being there for him so he could demonstrate his shot. I only inserted it back into the layout after his last post and he may not have seen it.

Dennis I dont see a shot with no risk even if you double bank the nine ball. or shoot to make the two ball. If you miss needing one ball and your opponent needs all three balls the balls are going to be all thier. And If a avarage player shoots it or someone who realy doesnt know the shot its easy to make a mistake. Why Give your opponent a chance to win. When you are in position to control the balls.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I dont see a shot with no risk even if you double bank the nine ball. or shoot to make the two ball. If you miss needing one ball and your opponent needs all three balls the balls are going to be all thier. And If a avarage player shoots it or someone who realy doesnt know the shot its easy to make a mistake. Why Give your opponent a chance to win. When you are in position to control the balls. And the shot I brought up can be used in many situations. And Nobody does it. Not even Scott Gab Efrein Cliff Or Shanon. THe Dont do it because the dont know it. And Thats just one shot.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I dont see a shot with no risk even if you double bank the nine ball. or shoot to make the two ball. If you miss needing one ball and your opponent needs all three balls the balls are going to be all thier. And If a avarage player shoots it or someone who realy doesnt know the shot its easy to make a mistake. Why Give your opponent a chance to win. When you are in position to control the balls. I dont want to put you on the spot Billy But do you do that. You can answer this qouistion any way you want to.

[Cowboy Dennis]

I dont see a shot with no risk even if you double bank the nine ball. or shoot to make the two ball. If you miss needing one ball and your opponent needs all three balls the balls are going to be all thier. And If a avarage player shoots it or someone who realy doesnt know the shot its easy to make a mistake. Why Give your opponent a chance to win. When you are in position to control the balls.


Artie,

Bill is talking about this shot. Not double-banking the 9-ball.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa2PHeb3Qcxt4VATV3VEFy4dDNY4dbYM3dNcq2kHeb3kCPS3kKbk3kagc2kDhk2kBUF@

[wincardona]

I dont want to put you on the spot Billy But do you do that. You can answer this qouistion any way you want to.

Artie, look at post #24 and you'll see what i'm talking about. This shot is nothing more than a roll shot, and the only thing that you need to controll is the speed. Nothing, absolutely nothing can go wrong with this shot. Set it up and try it.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

More like this I guess? The 2 and 9 did look to be very close but not touching. An eigth of an inch sounds about right.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4BATV4IDNY4JCCa2PJBc3Qcxt4VATV4VAkV3VDHp4dDNY4dbPt3dRsV2kJBc3kBqK3kLpj3kapB2kEWG@ I dont know why you want to leave all the balls down the table needing one ball. And the cue ball is on the other side of the two ball. On this diagram. And the two ball will not go were the diagram is showing. If you cut the two ball to bank the nine ball. THe nine ball could even go in the pocket. But were the cue ball is you will give a player a cut shot on the two ball. and he will shot it and try to run 3 and out. I would not shoot that shot from were the cue ball is. I would bank the nine ball on my side up the table and lock him up behind the ten ball. I dont like to give my opponent all those choices.I will Manover to get the balls in safty. And then play one ball one pocket. But agressive shooters play agressive shots.

[wincardona]

I dont know why you want to leave all the balls down the table needing one ball. And the cue ball is on the other side of the two ball. On this diagram. And the two ball will not go were the diagram is showing. If you cut the two ball to bank the nine ball. THe nine ball could even go in the pocket. But were the cue ball is you will give a player a cut shot on the two ball. and he will shot it and try to run 3 and out. I would not shoot that shot from were the cue ball is. I would bank the nine ball on my side up the table and lock him up behind the ten ball. I dont like to give my opponent all those choices.I will Manover to get the balls in safty. And then play one ball one pocket. But agressive shooters play agressive shots.

Artie, your not seeing this shot the way it's supposed to be executed. After contacting the 2 ball the 2 ball ends up on or near the bottom cushion every time. You never leave your opponent a shot on the 2 ball. If your opponent even gets back to the table he will be looking to knock balls up table for you, even if he has that opportunity. You will have complete controll of the game. Set it up and shoot it.

[wincardona]

Artie, your not seeing this shot the way it's supposed to be executed. After contacting the 2 ball the 2 ball ends up on or near the bottom cushion every time. You never leave your opponent a shot on the 2 ball. If your opponent even gets back to the table he will be looking to knock balls up table for you, even if he has that opportunity. You will have complete controll of the game. Set it up and shoot it.

The way the shot should be hit is this way. You shoot to hit the 2 ball and try to pocket it in your opponents pocket. Of coarse the 9 ball precludes you of doing that, but that's the type of hit it requires. Set the shot up and shoot it a few times.

[wincardona]

The way the shot should be hit is this way. You shoot to hit the 2 ball and try to pocket it in your opponents pocket. Of coarse the 9 ball precludes you of doing that, but that's the type of hit it requires. Set the shot up and shoot it a few times.

Artie, playing onepocket I will bring the second ball down table, even if I only need one, if the situation calls for it.Sometimes taking a ball or balls out of play might not be your best shot.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie, playing onepocket I will bring the second ball down table, even if I only need one, if the situation calls for it.Sometimes taking a ball or balls out of play might not be your best shot. I shot the shot and if you hit the ball thin the way the path of the cue ball showes the two ball does not go down to the bottom rail. And The cue ball starts on the other side off the table that I replied too. Look were I replied and you will see you cant even shoot your shot.

[wincardona]

I shot the shot and if you hit the ball thin the way the path of the cue ball showes the two ball does not go down to the bottom rail. And The cue ball starts on the other side off the table that I replied too. Look were I replied and you will see you cant even shoot your shot.

Artie, of coarse if you hit the 2 ball thinly you will not get much movement with the 2 ball, but that's not the way to hit the shot. It's a 1/2 ball hit, the way I described it in post #90. I have shot this shot at least 15 times, and every time I shot it I was able to controll both the cue ball and the 2 ball. And every time I shot it the 9 ball went toward my pocket. I know you can do the same.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie, of coarse if you hit the 2 ball thinly you will not get much movement with the 2 ball, but that's not the way to hit the shot. It's a 1/2 ball hit, the way I described it in post #90. I have shot this shot at least 15 times, and every time I shot it I was able to controll both the cue ball and the 2 ball. And every time I shot it the 9 ball went toward my pocket. I know you can do the same. I agree with everything you say excepte were the two ball will go. And you are also right I can not shoot my shot from the angle the cue ball is. Thats Why I said shot the nine ball to your side of the table. And lock the cue ball up behind the ten ball. Thats what I would shot needing one ball. If I needen 3 balls I would shoot your shot. But thats because off were the cue ball is.

[wincardona]

I agree with everything you say excepte were the two ball will go. And you are also right I can not shoot my shot from the angle the cue ball is. Thats Why I said shot the nine ball to your side of the table. And lock the cue ball up behind the ten ball. Thats what I would shot needing one ball. If I needen 3 balls I would shoot your shot. But thats because off were the cue ball is.
Artie, if you don't shoot my shot you don't like icecream. I know you like to torture your opponent, but give me a break.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie, if you don't shoot my shot you don't like icecream. I know you like to torture your opponent, but give me a break. Im Diabetick. Idont like ice cream. But I will take Fialay Munion. Thats what Fat Boys Sheff serves the pool players. It is obvious we have different shot selections. But thats what makes one pocket.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Im Diabetick. Idont like ice cream. But I will take Fialay Munion. Thats what Fat Boys Sheff serves the pool players. It is obvious we have different shot selections. But thats what makes one pocket. Billys Shot is a good shot. And If i need all three balls its a good shot. And I would shoot it needing 3 balls. And keeping all three balls down the bottom of the table. I was just Messing with you Billy The two ball will go just like in the diagram. And Next time I see you I will buy you a Ice Cream. If you buy me a Falay Munion. You got the best of that again. Ice Cream IS good for your stroke.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Billys Shot is a good shot. And If i need all three balls its a good shot. And I would shoot it needing 3 balls. And keeping all three balls down the bottom of the table. I was just Messing with you Billy The two ball will go just like in the diagram. And Next time I see you I will buy you a Ice Cream. If you buy me a Falay Munion. You got the best of that again. Ice Cream IS good for your stroke. If you come up with a good shot I will acknowlege it. And That Is wgat I just did. Not to confuse anyone learning. And Thier are different choices and shots according to the score. And you ability.

[wincardona]

If you come up with a good shot I will acknowlege it. And That Is wgat I just did. Not to confuse anyone learning. And Thier are different choices and shots according to the score. And you ability.
You're starting to give a little, you would shoot it needing 3 balls, what if you needed 2 balls or 1 ball? At least you would shoot the right shot 1/3 of the time, that's not all bad.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

You're starting to give a little, you would shoot it needing 3 balls, what if you needed 2 balls or 1 ball? At least you would shoot the right shot 1/3 of the time, that's not all bad. If I needed three or two balls I would shoot it because I would be the underdog. And I would want to keep the balls up table. If I needed one ball and I am the favorite I would not shoot the shot. And if the cueball is on the other side off the table you could not shoot the shot.

[wincardona]

If I needed three or two balls I would shoot it because I would be the underdog. And I would want to keep the balls up table. If I needed one ball and I am the favorite I would not shoot the shot. And if the cueball is on the other side off the table you could not shoot the shot.
Artie, you have ball in hand behind the head string, that's the situation. It's your shot, good luck, and i'm not mad at ya for puttin the Chicago squeeze down.:( :( :( :eek:

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie, you have ball in hand behind the head string, that's the situation. It's your shot, good luck, and i'm not mad at ya for puttin the Chicago squeeze down.:( :( :( :eek: Its Got Nothing To Do with Squezzing. I just dont want the player to run out on one shoot. If I can breack the game down. Its Not Called the SQuezze. ITs called Locking up the Game. Isn't it a little bit eary in the year for the killer bees to be out?