Rule of thumb for one rail cross banks

[jack]

First, I have to say i'm glad people are here, and so quickly too...a big hello those I recognize from azbilliards...

So, onto my question:

Several good players I know have told me this--if I have an object ball on the oppoents side of the table, and my cue ball can't go straight into his pocket, I can't bank it into mine.....check out the layout to see what I mean...

START(
%Am8H4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ4R1%OJ5M0%Ph9L7%Qp2G1%Us1Z0%Vo4C6%Wm0I7
%Xh8L8%Yn8D6%Zn1G2%[p9H3%\r8H4%]r3H8%^n1I2%eB3a5
)END

Now, I've hit shots that this rule would say aren't possible.....usually with heavy inside english and a softer hit.

Is this rule well known or something they've just noticed? Are there any rules like this that help in situations? If you have a chance at a shot like this, how would you hit it?

Thanks!

[Lunchmoney]

First, I have to say i'm glad people are here, and so quickly too...a big hello those I recognize from azbilliards...

So, onto my question:

Several good players I know have told me this--if I have an object ball on the oppoents side of the table, and my cue ball can't go straight into his pocket, I can't bank it into mine.....check out the layout to see what I mean...

START(
%Am8H4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ4R1%OJ5M0%Ph9L7%Qp2G1%Us1Z0%Vo4C6%Wm0I7
%Xh8L8%Yn8D6%Zn1G2%[p9H3%\r8H4%]r3H8%^n1I2%eB3a5
)END

Now, I've hit shots that this rule would say aren't possible.....usually with heavy inside english and a softer hit.

Is this rule well known or something they've just noticed? Are there any rules like this that help in situations? If you have a chance at a shot like this, how would you hit it?

Thanks!
My one pocket mentor told me the same thing about the cue ball going into your opponents hole. If I am playing a weaker player, I would try to bank the shot using the method you described. Most of the time if you double kiss the ball it bounces out away from the pocket. If I am playing a stronger player I usually play it safe and knock the ball away from his hole. Try this, if the object ball is on the other side of the pocket, hit it as if you were going to bank it down to the other corner pocket at the far end of the table. Sometimes it will double kiss and go over to your side of the table and maybe in your hole. I saw Jersey Red do this shot a long time ago.

Lunchmoney

[jack]

My one pocket mentor told me the same thing about the cue ball going into your opponents hole. If I am playing a weaker player, I would try to bank the shot using the method you described. Most of the time if you double kiss the ball it bounces out away from the pocket. If I am playing a stronger player I usually play it safe and knock the ball away from his hole. Try this, if the object ball is on the other side of the pocket, hit it as if you were going to bank it down to the other corner pocket at the far end of the table. Sometimes it will double kiss and go over to your side of the table and maybe in your hole. I saw Jersey Red do this shot a long time ago.

Lunchmoney

Ok, I think I can imagine it...pretend you're one railing it down to the top left corner...it'll come off the rail, kiss off the cue, and go towards your pocket...

reminds me a little of a shot that a one pocket player i know from the VA area showed me...

START(
%As1G4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pp9K9%Ur4G6%Vs4G5%Wq8H2%Xq2K0
%Yq2D3%Zq8F4%[q5F0%\p8C5%]s0Z9%^r2G9
)END

skim off the ball, the cue hits the rail and comes back in time to hit the moving ball into your pocket...he hit this is a game for position on three more balls and the win...pretty slick...;-)

[Lunchmoney]

Ok, I think I can imagine it...pretend you're one railing it down to the top left corner...it'll come off the rail, kiss off the cue, and go towards your pocket...

reminds me a little of a shot that a one pocket player i know from the VA area showed me...

START(
%As1G4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pp9K9%Ur4G6%Vs4G5%Wq8H2%Xq2K0
%Yq2D3%Zq8F4%[q5F0%\p8C5%]s0Z9%^r2G9
)END

skim off the ball, the cue hits the rail and comes back in time to hit the moving ball into your pocket...he hit this is a game for position on three more balls and the win...pretty slick...;-)


You got it.

One question. All I see is a bunch of numbers and percent signs and the words start at the beginning and end at the finish. I know this is a description/picture of the shot but don't know how see it. Can you enlighten me? Thanks

Lunchmoney

[jack]

You got it.

One question. All I see is a bunch of numbers and percent signs and the words start at the beginning and end at the finish. I know this is a description/picture of the shot but don't know how see it. Can you enlighten me? Thanks

Lunchmoney

definitely.....this is one of the best things i've seen recently for showing a shot....highlight the text, everything from start through end, then scroll to the top of the page......you'll see a link "need to show a shot?"
click on that, then click on the paste icon on that page...click ok twice and you'll see the shot that someone's setup....pretty cool stuff...
let me know if you figure it out....

[Eight & Out]

The rule I know is if you can't shoot the cue ball directly into the pocket you will double kiss it.I can usually avoid it with high inside english and slow speed.

Pete

[hemicudas]

The rule I know is if you can't shoot the cue ball directly into the pocket you will double kiss it.I can usually avoid it with high inside english and slow speed.

Pete

You can also slide draw the cb with outside english, holding the object ball as opposed to throwing it with inside english, depending on which way you need to go with the cb.

[Lunchmoney]

You can also slide draw the cb with outside english, holding the object ball as opposed to throwing it with inside english, depending on which way you need to go with the cb.


You hit the nail on the head $Bill. I pefer that way to lots of inside english and a slow hit. My success rate is higher with draw.

$Bill, have you noticed something about this forum so far? No bad mouthing of anyone and no negativity. Every post is either informative or humorous or both and they are all very positive. Maybe some good natured ribbing now and then but that is it. Does that say something about one pocket players? Keeping in mind you do have to think while you play the game.........

Lunchmoney

[hemicudas]

You hit the nail on the head $Bill. I pefer that way to lots of inside english and a slow hit. My success rate is higher with draw.

$Bill, have you noticed something about this forum so far? No bad mouthing of anyone and no negativity. Every post is either informative or humorous or both and they are all very positive. Maybe some good natured ribbing now and then but that is it. Does that say something about one pocket players? Keeping in mind you do have to think while you play the game.........

Lunchmoney

Totally agree Lunchmoney. It has been a pleasure to be here thus far.

[vapros]

Here is a variation on the rule of thumb mentioned at the start of this thread:
When the cue ball and the object ball are lined up straight in (or almost straight in) on any of the four corner pockets, there is the danger of a second collision in any bank shot to your pocket. This includes one, two and three rail banks.
This is not to say you must pass up all these shots. As mentioned earlier, you can have a measure of control through use of follow, draw, running english, holding english and even speed. But the danger is always there and should not be ignored, and you will encounter such patterns one or more times in nearly every one-pocket game you play.
Watch the good players play these shots. They deal with this situation routinely, and seldom are surprised by a second kiss. However, especially in close quarters, there are certain patterns that they do not even attempt to beat. You must learn what you can and cannot do in banking, and on each different table.

[Chris Cass]

You can also slide draw the cb with outside english, holding the object ball as opposed to throwing it with inside english, depending on which way you need to go with the cb.

This is my specialty. I'm about 80% or more favorite to make this ball. I make it like you describe Hemi.

START(
%AF2Z3%JI7^7%Pi8Q5%UD1E1%VE4[2%WC9V1%XF3Y5%YO5D5%ZC3T9%[q9W4
%\P2C6%]G4Y6%^h9Q7%eC1b1
)END

LOL This is fun,

C.C.

[Chris Cass]

Here is a variation on the rule of thumb mentioned at the start of this thread:
When the cue ball and the object ball are lined up straight in (or almost straight in) on any of the four corner pockets, there is the danger of a second collision in any bank shot to your pocket. This includes one, two and three rail banks.
This is not to say you must pass up all these shots. As mentioned earlier, you can have a measure of control through use of follow, draw, running english, holding english and even speed. But the danger is always there and should not be ignored, and you will encounter such patterns one or more times in nearly every one-pocket game you play.
Watch the good players play these shots. They deal with this situation routinely, and seldom are surprised by a second kiss. However, especially in close quarters, there are certain patterns that they do not even attempt to beat. You must learn what you can and cannot do in banking, and on each different table.

Hi ya vapros,

You bring up some interesting points. I don't know if you've ever played polish pool but I have twice. The object is to make the lowest # ball in a rack of 9 and make it by caroming off the cb. So, basically your shooting the 0ne ball and making it off the cb.

That brings me to your point. Many of these shots are dead scratches in order to make them. It's like geometry and basically if you think about it? All pool shots are nothing but tangent lines. What we pool players do is, create our own tangent lines. These shots that are dead double hits are good. We can count on them when we need them and manitpulate them to our advantage with english, speed follow and draw.

BTW, Grady states the same in his video. Knowing that you uderstand what to do and when. Grady says and I've found out is very true. That if the cb doesn't clear the corner pocket clean? The double kiss is 100% unless you use reverse, adjusting speed. Critical where you transfer the power of the shot to the ob instead of the cb. Good stuff. Glad to see you again V.

Regards,

C.C.

[Pelican]

skim off the ball, the cue hits the rail and comes back in time to hit the moving ball into your pocket...he hit this is a game for position on three more balls and the win...pretty slick...;-)

Grady showed us this one when we went up to get the table. Really nice shot.

[jack]

You can also slide draw the cb with outside english, holding the object ball as opposed to throwing it with inside english, depending on which way you need to go with the cb.

interesting....i'm imagining it now, and would have thought that it'd pull the cue into the path of the object ball.....

when you say slide draw, again, i can imagine it, but could you describe it? I would guess its pretty much what it sounds like...sliding the cueball into your object ball with a low-outside hit?

thanks!

[Lunchmoney]

definitely.....this is one of the best things i've seen recently for showing a shot....highlight the text, everything from start through end, then scroll to the top of the page......you'll see a link "need to show a shot?"
click on that, then click on the paste icon on that page...click ok twice and you'll see the shot that someone's setup....pretty cool stuff...
let me know if you figure it out....


Jack,

Thanks for the info, I figured it out, works great. :D I had figured it out a couple of weeks ago and reviewing old threads I was reminded to let you know if I was able to see the shots. Thanks again

Lunchmoney

[hemicudas]

interesting....i'm imagining it now, and would have thought that it'd pull the cue into the path of the object ball.....

when you say slide draw, again, i can imagine it, but could you describe it? I would guess its pretty much what it sounds like...sliding the cueball into your object ball with a low-outside hit?

thanks!I don't know if I can discribe it any further than slide the cb, Jack. When you slide the cb with hard english, in or our, you get more english on the object ball because the cb stays in contact with the object ball longer and the cb reacts stronger off the rail. Hard slide english can be used to double kiss an object ball, allmost frozen to the rail and throw that ball 6-8 inches in either direction. If that object ball is within 6" of a corner pocket, you can pocket that ball using hard slide english. Obviously, the closer the ball is to the pocket, the easier it is to do. There are players that play the 5 ball over me that don't know how to use slide english properly, Jack.

[Pelican]

Does that say something about one pocket players? Keeping in mind you do have to think while you play the game.........

Lunchmoney

:eek: Oh no!! THINK!!! I knew I was forgetting something :D

[Pelican]

I don't know if I can discribe it any further than slide the cb.

$Bill, next time we be somewhere at the same time, ya know, kinda like in the same place together, hows bout demonstrate this here slide english. Heck, I had hard enough time with regular ole 9th grade english. :(

Thanks my friend, Pel

[Troy]

I guess I'm not the only one that shoots these shots, eh... :) :)

This is my specialty. I'm about 80% or more favorite to make this ball. I make it like you describe Hemi.

START(
%AF2Z3%JI7^7%Pi8Q5%UD1E1%VE4[2%WC9V1%XF3Y5%YO5D5%ZC3T9%[q9W4
%\P2C6%]G4Y6%^h9Q7%eC1b1
)END

LOL This is fun,

C.C.

[Pelican]

I guess I'm not the only one that shoots these shots, eh... :) :)

I have a collision at the intersection of the green and yellow lines about 90% of the time. What do i need to do?

[Troy]

Without seeing just how you shoot it, I'd guess either a thinner hit on the OB or more outside english (in this instance, right), maybe a combination of both.

Troy
I have a collision at the intersection of the green and yellow lines about 90% of the time. What do i need to do?

[hemicudas]

Without seeing just how you shoot it, I'd guess either a thinner hit on the OB or more outside english (in this instance, right), maybe a combination of both.

TroyJust for the record Troy, Going for the cross corner in that spot is NOT the right shot. From the way it is set up you have to kick the ball out and over to your side of the table, I think. All I'm saying is it can be made and how to shoot it. Grady might be the favorite to make the cross corner but I don't think so. In fact, I don't think he would shoot it either, from that angle.

From this angle, I would go for it. Drawing your cb with low outside english, going in front of the 1 ball. The outside english on the cb puts inside on the 1 ball, holding it. If I am in stroke, I am the favorite to make the ball. This shot, Grady is ALLWAYS the favorite to make it. I think all it comes down to is whether you can beat the kiss or not.

START(
%AF2Y5%B[9]1%C[5]1%D[6\6%E[2\5%F[7\8%G[8\8%H[6]1%I[4]1%J[6\3
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%YC7D1%ZE2[2%[E7Z6%\E8Z2%]G4X4%^U6R5%eC5b6%_r8U5%`g3N6%aT2C4
)END

[Troy]

Maybe so Hemi. I'd have to see it on the table to be sure. I was looking at CC's "picture" and now yours and I just might go for it either way. There are slight differences to the two leaves according to the WEI pic. The thin/thick hit on the OB and the amount of outside (right) juice depends on just where the OB and the CB are located.

Troy...~~~ Isn't that good at the WEI table (or the real table for that matter...) :)
Just for the record Troy, Going for the cross corner in that spot is NOT the right shot. From the way it is set up you have to kick the ball out and over to your side of the table, I think. All I'm saying is it can be made and how to shoot it. Grady might be the favorite to make the cross corner but I don't think so. In fact, I don't think he would shoot it either, from that angle.

From this angle, I would go for it. Drawing your cb with low outside english, going in front of the 1 ball. The outside english on the cb puts inside on the 1 ball, holding it. If I am in stroke, I am the favorite to make the ball. This shot, Grady is ALLWAYS the favorite to make it. I think all it comes down to is whether you can beat the kiss or not.

START(
%AF2Y5%B[9]1%C[5]1%D[6\6%E[2\5%F[7\8%G[8\8%H[6]1%I[4]1%J[6\3
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%YC7D1%ZE2[2%[E7Z6%\E8Z2%]G4X4%^U6R5%eC5b6%_r8U5%`g3N6%aT2C4
)END

[NH Steve]

From where you have the balls, Hemi, if I can, I try to avoid the scratch in the side 'A', and in the corner 'B' using tons of low right english, like this:

START(
%AF2Y5%B[9]1%C[5]1%D[6\6%E[2\5%F[7\8%G[8\8%H[6]1%I[4]1%J[6\3
%K[4]0%L[3\8%M[4]4%N[4\9%O[8]5%PV2R3%QZ5A6%Rs2Z9%UQ2D3%VC2T4
%WC8U6%XE7X5%YC7D1%ZE2[2%[E7Z6%\E8Z2%]G4X4%^U6R5%eC5b6%_r8U5
%`h6Z1%aR4C8
)END

If the cue ball is farther over so it is a thinner cut and I can't be assured of ending up on the safe side of the far corner pocket, then that side and the corner become huge with low outside english. If I play the shot from there, I use high right instead, and plan to fall beyond the side pocket. High right seems to work just as well at throwing the ball towards your hole as low right, without as much chance for scratching:

START(
%AF4Y9%B[9]1%C[5]1%D[6\6%E[2\5%F[7\8%G[8\8%H[6]1%I[4]1%J[6\3
%K[4]0%L[3\8%M[4]4%N[4\9%O[8]5%Pe0P7%QZ5A6%Rs2Z9%Uc2D1%VC8W5
%WD4X5%XE8Y0%YC7D1%ZE2[2%[E5Z7%\E5Z5%]G5Y2%^c6Q1%eC6`7%_j7Q8
%`r7J8%ad6D0
)END

[hemicudas]

From where you have the balls, Hemi, if I can, I try to avoid the scratch in the side 'A', and in the corner 'B' using tons of low right english, like this:

START(
%AF2Y5%B[9]1%C[5]1%D[6\6%E[2\5%F[7\8%G[8\8%H[6]1%I[4]1%J[6\3
%K[4]0%L[3\8%M[4]4%N[4\9%O[8]5%PV2R3%QZ5A6%Rs2Z9%UQ2D3%VC2T4
%WC8U6%XE7X5%YC7D1%ZE2[2%[E7Z6%\E8Z2%]G4X4%^U6R5%eC5b6%_r8U5
%`h6Z1%aR4C8
)END

If the cue ball is farther over so it is a thinner cut and I can't be assured of ending up on the safe side of the far corner pocket, then that side and the corner become huge with low outside english. If I play the shot from there, I use high right instead, and plan to fall beyond the side pocket. High right seems to work just as well at throwing the ball towards your hole as low right, without as much chance for scratching:

START(
%AF4Y9%B[9]1%C[5]1%D[6\6%E[2\5%F[7\8%G[8\8%H[6]1%I[4]1%J[6\3
%K[4]0%L[3\8%M[4]4%N[4\9%O[8]5%Pe0P7%QZ5A6%Rs2Z9%Uc2D1%VC8W5
%WD4X5%XE8Y0%YC7D1%ZE2[2%[E5Z7%\E5Z5%]G5Y2%^c6Q1%eC6`7%_j7Q8
%`r7J8%ad6D0
)END
Sorry Steve but I can't go for that shot either. I have to kick it out and onto my side of the table, side pocket or above.

[Chris Cass]

First, I have to say i'm glad people are here, and so quickly too...a big hello those I recognize from azbilliards...

So, onto my question:

Several good players I know have told me this--if I have an object ball on the oppoents side of the table, and my cue ball can't go straight into his pocket, I can't bank it into mine.....check out the layout to see what I mean...

START(
%Am8H4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ4R1%OJ5M0%Ph9L7%Qp2G1%Us1Z0%Vo4C6%Wm0I7
%Xh8L8%Yn8D6%Zn1G2%[p9H3%\r8H4%]r3H8%^n1I2%eB3a5
)END

Now, I've hit shots that this rule would say aren't possible.....usually with heavy inside english and a softer hit.

Is this rule well known or something they've just noticed? Are there any rules like this that help in situations? If you have a chance at a shot like this, how would you hit it?

Thanks!

Hi Jack,

I fancy Cuda' reply as a way of doing it. Also, eight and out has another popular way of making the ball or getting it to your hole anyway. The rule of thumb I got from Grady. However, the rule of thumb is not a neg way of thinking of it. Turn that around and you can count on the double kiss to get you out of trouble too.

I use the double kiss with consistancy. It's the nuts in many situations just to wait for a better shot without the possible sell-out. There's one more rule of thumb noone has mentioned here. That is, "There's no worse feeling a One Pocket player can have, than selling out." Even losing isn't that bad. LOL

Here's another that Grady mentions in one of his tapes. If the ob is near or frozen to the rail after the first diamond and you kick at it. It's a sell-out a majority of the time. I notice this to be true. Anything less than the diamond is ok but be aware, you have to still hit it good. It looks like this.

START(
%AD0V2%BJ0U5%CI7O2%DL7N1%EL2U5%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JL0M0
%KL2V8%LJ7L7%MO5W8%ON6L7%PH8L2%QA9B0%UF1Z4%VH4M0%YD2X2%ZE3[2
%eB8a0
)END

This is the max limit and your pocket is "A". I'm still a little wet behind the ears where One Pocket is concerned. I only played it for a yr.

Regards,

C.C.

[jack]

Hi Jack,

I fancy Cuda' reply as a way of doing it. Also, eight and out has another popular way of making the ball or getting it to your hole anyway. The rule of thumb I got from Grady. However, the rule of thumb is not a neg way of thinking of it. Turn that around and you can count on the double kiss to get you out of trouble too.

I use the double kiss with consistancy. It's the nuts in many situations just to wait for a better shot without the possible sell-out. There's one more rule of thumb noone has mentioned here. That is, "There's no worse feeling a One Pocket player can have, than selling out." Even losing isn't that bad. LOL

Here's another that Grady mentions in one of his tapes. If the ob is near or frozen to the rail after the first diamond and you kick at it. It's a sell-out a majority of the time. I notice this to be true. Anything less than the diamond is ok but be aware, you have to still hit it good. It looks like this.

START(
%AD0V2%BJ0U5%CI7O2%DL7N1%EL2U5%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JL0M0
%KL2V8%LJ7L7%MO5W8%ON6L7%PH8L2%QA9B0%UF1Z4%VH4M0%YD2X2%ZE3[2
%eB8a0
)END

This is the max limit and your pocket is "A". I'm still a little wet behind the ears where One Pocket is concerned. I only played it for a yr.

Regards,

C.C.

thanks chris, i'll have give some of these a try tonight...i still can't seem to get the feel for cuda's...seems like even with a lot of low and left the the cue will drift right over in the path of the object ball...

[hemicudas]

thanks chris, i'll have give some of these a try tonight...i still can't seem to get the feel for cuda's...seems like even with a lot of low and left the the cue will drift right over in the path of the object ball...
Jack, the shot takes outside slide draw english. Outside, in this case, is Right english, not Left. The CB is going to end up in the middle of the table rather than going farther up to the top corner, as I drew it.

[Chris Cass]

Hi ya Cuda,

Seems Jack doesn't really know the first rule of thumb yet. :D In time it'll all come clear.

Regards,

C.C.~~hope you got the card I sent? I swear I mailed it.

[jack]

Hi ya Cuda,

Seems Jack doesn't really know the first rule of thumb yet. :D In time it'll all come clear.

Regards,

C.C.~~hope you got the card I sent? I swear I mailed it.


Hahaha...whoops, I forgot the shot was lined up top right corner...ok, bottom right makes more sense...will give it a go tonight...

btw, something ronnie said in his interview...about trying to move balls, not a ball, hitting into the stack, etc...i've been trying to do that more recently, and seeing it his interview really reminded me...well, last night was a perfect example...and there're few shots that feel as good as a kick into a rack, breaking it up, and pocketing a ball that your opponent never even saw...

/wish i was playing right now........*sigh*

[hemicudas]

Hahaha...whoops, I forgot the shot was lined up top right corner...ok, bottom right makes more sense...will give it a go tonight...

btw, something ronnie said in his interview...about trying to move balls, not a ball, hitting into the stack, etc...i've been trying to do that more recently, and seeing it his interview really reminded me...well, last night was a perfect example...and there're few shots that feel as good as a kick into a rack, breaking it up, and pocketing a ball that your opponent never even saw...

/wish i was playing right now........*sigh*

Ain't it Da Truth.

[Chris Cass]

thanks chris, i'll have give some of these a try tonight...i still can't seem to get the feel for cuda's...seems like even with a lot of low and left the the cue will drift right over in the path of the object ball...

Hi Jack,

Let me walk you through the first rule of thumb as Grady talks about in his videos. The first rule of thumb is, if the cb doesn't "Pass" the ob "Clear" to the corner pocket, they'll be a double kiss. This is undisputable. Looks like this,

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%AG2F3%DL4^2%IK9_1%PJ8K1%YD3D5%ZJ7J9%eC3a4

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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Note: the english normally used.

Now, in order to make the cb pass without the double kiss. We have to change something. What Cuda is telling you is that it's possible to "drag" the cb across the ob and create a stall in the speed of the cb. This is done by using outside english. In this case outside is Left english. Looks like this,

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Hope this helps. BTW, don't feel like this is over your head. It's just a learning process we all have to go through. Try getting a hold of some of Grady' tapes. Maybe Jack Koehler' book on One Pocket. It's worth the investment in yourself. BTW, the first rule of thumb is a bit advanced imho. The first rule of thumb is really knowing what to look for in the rack. That is the beginning after all. LOL

Take care rookie, :p

C.C.~~I have one yr in and I'm still a rookie too. :D

[jack]

Hi Jack,
...
Now, in order to make the cb pass without the double kiss. We have to change something. What Cuda is telling you is that it's possible to "drag" the cb across the ob and create a stall in the speed of the cb. This is done by using outside english. In this case outside is Left english....


I can see how that'd work...i would think it'd be important to get enough left on it to get the cue ball out of the way and not too much draw...will have to spend some time developing a feel for it...

from what i've heard, it seems that it'd be a waste getting jack koehlers book...for now i'll study Shots, Moves, and Strategies until i can afford a copy of Winning One Pocket...

thx,
jack

[Chris Cass]

I can see how that'd work...i would think it'd be important to get enough left on it to get the cue ball out of the way and not too much draw...will have to spend some time developing a feel for it...

from what i've heard, it seems that it'd be a waste getting jack koehlers book...for now i'll study Shots, Moves, and Strategies until i can afford a copy of Winning One Pocket...

thx,
jack

Hi Jack,

I don't think any material on the game is a waist of your time. I think whatever books you choose is well worth your time. Nothing can replace experience but this material is from experience and helps the learning curve. I haven't read Jack K.' book but can tell you he knows his stuff. This double kiss rule is merely the cross side;/ cross over bank in reality. This I've learned from experience myself.

So many one pocket shots, banks, 9 ball and other games al inner-twine with eachother. When I came up it was 14.1 and one has to just use our imagination to see and understand how these shots are able to be done. That's the enjoyment I get from all the games. I'll put myself in a particular game mode to solve many problems during the game. When playing straight pool I'll think of the safety as if I'm playing one pocket. It's much easier to play it that way. Same with 9 ball.

Take care Jack and no matter what the read is, it's always going to bennifit you. You can always help out a friend too. When your done, you could always send them the gift of knowledge.

Regards,

C.C. ~~was sent Joe Tuckers Racking Secrets. Great for 9, 10, straight and 8 ball but I don't agree with his One Pocket break. still, a welcome gift even if it's for a little while. I got it down and that's all I need. :)

[jack]

Hi Jack,

I don't think any material on the game is a waist of your time. I think whatever books you choose is well worth your time. Nothing can replace experience but this material is from experience and helps the learning curve. I haven't read Jack K.' book but can tell you he knows his stuff. This double kiss rule is merely the cross side;/ cross over bank in reality. This I've learned from experience myself.

So many one pocket shots, banks, 9 ball and other games al inner-twine with eachother. When I came up it was 14.1 and one has to just use our imagination to see and understand how these shots are able to be done. That's the enjoyment I get from all the games. I'll put myself in a particular game mode to solve many problems during the game. When playing straight pool I'll think of the safety as if I'm playing one pocket. It's much easier to play it that way. Same with 9 ball.

Take care Jack and no matter what the read is, it's always going to bennifit you. You can always help out a friend too. When your done, you could always send them the gift of knowledge.

Regards,

C.C. ~~was sent Joe Tuckers Racking Secrets. Great for 9, 10, straight and 8 ball but I don't agree with his One Pocket break. still, a welcome gift even if it's for a little while. I got it down and that's all I need. :)


So I finally tried it..first couple times I hit it badly...but, once i realized that you almost want to cut it straight to the rail, i started nailing them...amazing how physics works, isn't it? :-)

Btw, i looked around for Racking Secrets and couldn't find any...is it another one of those out of print books that're classics but hard to find? (like Eddie Robin's books)....

[Woody_968]

I don't think any material on the game is a waist of your time.

Well put CC. I can say I have read many books that were so overlaping of other material that I only got one knew idea or concept from the whole book. But many times that one knew nugget of knowledge is well worth any money or time invested.

[longhair]

Hey, everybody!

When I saw Jack's diagram, I thought of Hemicuda's way out, draw outside spin. I don't think the inside and soft path will beat the kiss as the bank is drawn. There are some banks where neither will work, and this might be one. However, you can stretch the low right version a lot by elevating to shoot it. This takes speed off of the object ball and gives the cueball more time, as well as lengthening the angle the cueball will take coming off of the rail.

Does anyone know a "rule of thumb" to describe which kisses can be avoided with inside, which with outside, and which ones can't be beat? I do this by feel, and while that is effective for me, it's not very helpful to anyone else.

This forum is great! What an amazing learning opportunity. Many thanks to all those involved.
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