Slice or Combinate ?

[One Pocket Ghost]

I had this situation when I was playing yesterday....it's not a moving shot choice, it's a shooting choice, and I guess it comes down to personal preferences/skills of combos vs. cutshots....

I had pocket A and I'm down 5 balls to 4....I just made a bank and left myself like the diagram shows....my question to myself was should I shoot the combo or the cut shot - the combo is pretty much dead-ahead on, but with a lot of space between the balls....I can get position shooting either shot - neither shot is too difficult - but, they are also both very missable....

Anyway, the result was, I finally chose the cut shot - probably because I hit thin cuts better than I do combos of a similar difficulty level....I missed it, but hit it decent....left it hanging in the jaws, with my opponent snookered on it by the 1 and 3 balls....

So which of the 2 shots would you guys have chose?


- Ghost


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGWX4COQU2ENUj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu@

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I had this situation when I was playing yesterday....it's not a moving shot choice, it's a shooting choice, and I guess it comes down to personal preferences/skills of combos vs. cutshots....

I had pocket A and I'm down 5 balls to 4....I just made a bank and left myself like the diagram shows....my question to myself was should I shoot the combo or the cut shot - the combo is pretty much dead-ahead on, but with a lot of space between the balls....I can get position shooting either shot - neither shot is too difficult - but, they are also both very missable....

Anyway, the result was, I finally chose the cut shot - probably because I hit thin cuts better than I do combos of a similar difficulty level....I missed it, but hit it decent....left it hanging in the jaws, with my opponent snookered on it by the 1 and 3 balls....

So which of the 2 shots would you guys have chose?


- Ghost


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGfO4COQU2EFti3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu@ I would shoot the 12 ball but if you are not going to play positon on the 3 ball then you are still shooting the combination. And if thats the caseyou are better off shooting the combination first because all your other shots will be easier. and you wont have to shot a tough cut shot on the 12 ball. the way the balls are laying I would shoot the combination because the balls will be open and its harder to sell out. Witch you can do shooting the 12 ball first. And the way the balls lay the combination looks easier to make then the cut shot.

[lll]

i would cut the 12 . its not just the disatance between the 1and 3 but also the distance of the 3 to the pocket. i would have more confidence in cutting the 12 and controlling the q. ghost if you left your opponent snookered behind the 1-3 then would you have had to shoot the combo next? if so you still ended up having to shoot the combo and maybe not quite on line as your first chance. i would have come alittle farthe across the table to snooker him with the 3 and be able to make the 3 if i made the 12. i dont think hed go for the bank of the 1 or 3 if i left the 12 in the pocket or very close.

[ace]

I would cut the 12 ball, hoping not to sell out a bank for the opponent.

[beatle]

combo and hit it so slowly

[fred bentivegna]

As weak as I am executing, I would probably bank the 5. Not the worst shot in the world.

the Beard

[androd]

I'd cut the 12 ball and try to make the 9 ball with the CB. Although I make combos pretty well, if you're planning to miss the combo is probably a little safer, hit softly.
Rod.

[fred bentivegna]

There are at least 14 ways to leave a bank off of either ball when you shoot the combo, no matter how easy you hit it.

the Beard

[Skin]

I'd cut the 12 ball and try to make the 9 ball with the CB. Although I make combos pretty well, if you're planning to miss the combo is probably a little safer, hit softly.
Rod.

Exactly what I was thinking, Rod. That will set me up for the 3 next and with the cb in the opening of the hole, I can get low on it to play position for the 1 after the 3.

The way the combo sits in the WEI, it looks like the cb and 1 must go in opposite directions in order to sink the 3. I could wind up, as a result, with a worse cut angle on the 1 than what's already there on the 12. Or even worse, leave him a makeable cut on the 1 if the 3 doesn't drop rather than a bank if I miss the cut.

Cutting the 12 is the shot, imho.

Skin

[vapros]

I would rather cut than combine, but I'm with the Beard. Pretty sure I would choose the 5 ball bank here. Even if you miss it, if you make a good effort I would not want to have to follow you. Your position looks good.

[wincardona]

The degree of difficulty seems about the same with either shot, but the combination is a much more rewarding shot. Most importantly, when shooting these type of shots all emphasis should be put on pocketing the shot, and missing is not an option. You have to eliminate all negative thoughts, when shooting shots of this importance, forget about leaving a return shot, concentrate soley on pocketing the shot. It's when you start thinking, what will happen if I miss? that will cost you sometimes more than you can afford. Remember try to make yourself feel positive before shooting any shot.

[Cowboy Dennis]

It's when you start thinking, what will happen if I miss?


Bill,

Your advice is usually spot on but this time I don't agree with you.Thinking "what will happen if I miss" is the essence of one-pocket, unless you are running open balls. Certainly not the case here.

I do not hit combos well. I liked banking the 5 ball as soon as I saw this layout, but mostly because I need 4 balls. If I needed 3 balls I would cut the 12 ball.

Dennis

[Artie Bodendorfer]

The degree of difficulty seems about the same with either shot, but the combination is a much more rewarding shot. Most importantly, when shooting these type of shots all emphasis should be put on pocketing the shot, and missing is not an option. You have to eliminate all negative thoughts, when shooting shots of this importance, forget about leaving a return shot, concentrate soley on pocketing the shot. It's when you start thinking, what will happen if I miss? that will cost you sometimes more than you can afford. Remember try to make yourself feel positive before shooting any shot. I like your first part with rewarding the shot. And it is way more rewarding and if you miss youe will leave nothing were thee other way you can give up two or 3 balls. I do not agree with your second part you can think as positive and go into the shot thinking 100% positive but it will not change what realy happines. And if you miss and you went into the shoot 100% positive the resulte is still thier and the truth is a negative out come and next time you are in the same position youre mind will tell you thier can be a big consequience if you miss. And your mind will remember. And the think positive is very good. But weather its Positive or Negative we have to face reality and see what can realy happen. And too much confidense or too much positive can be the down fall ove you loosing. To muck confodence or being to positve can hurt you more then thinking it out and being coutious and looking into reality what can happen and what are my choices. If you are 100% positive and confedent. And you dont prove to yourself that the positive and confedence is failure against you it will shatter and demoralize you and your positive attitude and your confedence will also become weeker. THe only way to look at it is look at both sides the positive and the negative and bad things can happen if you miss. But once you have made your decision then go all out and give it all you can to execuite the shot. And Billys attitude and him saying to be positive I reinforce. But you cannot eliminate what will happen if you do not execute the shot. And Billy has a very strong positive attitude. And thats what makes Billy a great gambler and those are hard people to beat because the have a positive attitude and the belive the will win because the belive the will make thier shots and belive that they can do whatever they belive. And it is 100% better to have a Positive attitude then a Negative attitude. And some people are always afraid and have a negative attitude. I Wrote this to help and show people about positive and negative attitude. And too much positive attitude is Bull S yourself and does not help you win. And being like this negitve attitude can end up for you excepting defeat. And they think that the are suppose to loose before they play. Like in a tournement. And when the play a good player in the tournement they concentrate on loosing and not looking bad. Instead ove playing to win. And doing whatever it might take to win and give you a chance. Everyone is human and every one has fear and dought in thier mind. Take the fear and dough and think about it as excitment instead ove fear and you will play better and enjoy the game more and you will feel stronger. Becuse its not fear its excitment. Inbrace it and feel it and then once you feel it then injoy the excitment. And then do what you have to do to win. And I would play and I would waht to get that feeling . So I could chalange my fear and dought. I hope next time you play and you are in a fear position think about what I said its not fear its excitment.

[wincardona]

Bill,

Your advice is usually spot on but this time I don't agree with you.Thinking "what will happen if I miss" is the essence of one-pocket, unless you are running open balls. Certainly not the case here.

I do not hit combos well. I liked banking the 5 ball as soon as I saw this layout, but mostly because I need 4 balls. If I needed 3 balls I would cut the 12 ball.

Dennis
I think you have misenterpreted my reasoning, I do understand that any shot can be missed no matter how simple it may appear. My point is, once you have evaluated a situation and choose an option you must then forget about the consequense if missed. After you have commited youself to a challenge, you will always do better if you feel good about what you are taking on. In this case lets say we choose to shoot the combination, I do understand the advantage and disadvantages this shot may produce before I shoot it, but ONCE I MAKE A DECISION I then forget about the consequense if I miss, and totally focus on the shot, and invision it in a positive way.

[Skin]

Hey guys. Here something I think is being missed about the combo. Even though Ghost said it is pretty much dead-ahead on, it is not perfectly dead ahead on, which means one or both the cb and 1 are going to take angles after the collisions. The way it is diagrammed, they go in opposite directions, which is very bad. They both would need to go in the same direction (either towards the hole or away) for a follow-up shot on the one.


Skin

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGOO4COQU2EFti3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFfY4Qcxu4UGOO4UMlH4UOax4WOQU4WdgA2kFfY4kFox4kOfq@

[wincardona]

I think you have misenterpreted my reasoning, I do understand that any shot can be missed no matter how simple it may appear. My point is, once you have evaluated a situation and choose an option you must then forget about the consequense if missed. After you have commited youself to a challenge, you will always do better if you feel good about what you are taking on. In this case lets say we choose to shoot the combination, I do understand the advantage and disadvantages this shot may produce before I shoot it, but ONCE I MAKE A DECISION I then forget about the consequense if I miss, and totally focus on the shot, and invision it in a positive way.

Everyone knows, or at least they should know that any time we take on a challenge, it's somewhat stressfull. Depending on how we view the challenge will determine how much stress we put on ourselves. Perception is reality. If we view a challenge like Artie say's and make it exciting opposed to fearing it, you will do better. In this instance I view the combination as the correct shot in my mind, before hand, that alone will lessen stress. I then focus on the positive, not what will happen if I miss, i've already understood that before I made my choice of options.

Whether your good or bad at shooting any type of shot, once you have made a commitment to shoot it, you will always do better if you view it in a positive way.

I hope I have cleared up how I view a challenge AFTER making a commitment

[One pocket Smitty]

Dennis, to answer your question. I would cut the 12. But I saw the bank on the 5 as the shot to shoot. I think its a much easier shot than either of the other two. Plus it puts another ball down by your hole. Smitty

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Everyone knows, or at least they should know that any time we take on a challenge, it's somewhat stressfull. Depending on how we view the challenge will determine how much stress we put on ourselves. Perception is reality. If we view a challenge like Artie say's and make it exciting opposed to fearing it, you will do better. In this instance I view the combination as the correct shot in my mind, before hand, that alone will lessen stress. I then focus on the positive, not what will happen if I miss, i've already inderstood that before I made my choice of options.

Whether your good or bad at shooting any type of shot, once you have made a commitment to shoot it, you will always do better if you view it in a positive way.

I hope I have cleared up how I view a challenge after making a commitment You have to think what will hapen if you miss. Or how else can you think ahead. You have to look at all posibilities. And if you only think positive then you cannot think ove the other side if you miss. Because if you think positive you are also thinking ahead positive for your next shot. But that is not looking at all posibilities. And we do have to look t what happines if we miss. We cannot eliminate that out ove the game. Because every shot would only be a positive shot. And the big qoistion is what if we make a mistake? And what if we make a mistake thinking positive what happines then?

[Artie Bodendorfer]

You have to think what will hapen if you miss. Or how else can you think ahead. You have to look at all posibilities. And if you only think positive then you cannot think ove the other side if you miss. Because if you think positive you are also thinking ahead positive for your next shot. But that is not looking at all posibilities. And we do have to look t what happines if we miss. We cannot eliminate that out ove the game. Because every shot would only be a positive shot. And the big qoistion is what if we make a mistake? And what if we make a mistake thinking positive what happines then? And these are replies you cant find the answers to in a book.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Hey guys. Here something I think is being missed about the combo. Even though Ghost said it is pretty much dead-ahead on, it is not perfectly dead ahead on, which means one or both the cb and 1 are going to take angles after the collisions. The way it is diagrammed, they go in opposite directions, which is very bad. They both would need to go in the same direction (either towards the hole or away) for a follow-up shot on the one.


Skin

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGOO4COQU2EFti3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFfY4Qcxu4UGOO4UMlH4UOax4WOQU4WdgA2kFfY4kFox4kOfq@


Skin,

I think that if you look at this layout the Ghost (oh I hate to say it) is closer to the correct results. If you hit the 1 ball the way you showed, it would not even hit the 3 ball. Jeez I hate it when the Ghost is right.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGOO4COQU2EFti3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFfY4Qcxu2REwM4UGOO4UMlH4UOaxzc4WOQU4WdgA2kFfY4kFox4kOfqzc4lcxu2leqm2mEwM4mLyK@

[Cowboy Dennis]

I think you have misenterpreted my reasoning, I do understand that any shot can be missed no matter how simple it may appear. My point is, once you have evaluated a situation and choose an option you must then forget about the consequense if missed. After you have commited youself to a challenge, you will always do better if you feel good about what you are taking on. In this case lets say we choose to shoot the combination, I do understand the advantage and disadvantages this shot may produce before I shoot it, but ONCE I MAKE A DECISION I then forget about the consequense if I miss, and totally focus on the shot, and invision it in a positive way.


Bill,

I do understand your position now. Once you are done thinking then go ahead and shoot. It is the most difficult thing in sports to do, stop thinking when you are performing. Thinking has no place in the actual performance of the task at hand, except beforehand.

Dennis

[wincardona]

You have to think what will hapen if you miss. Or how else can you think ahead. You have to look at all posibilities. And if you only think positive then you cannot think ove the other side if you miss. Because if you think positive you are also thinking ahead positive for your next shot. But that is not looking at all posibilities. And we do have to look t what happines if we miss. We cannot eliminate that out ove the game. Because every shot would only be a positive shot. And the big qoistion is what if we make a mistake? And what if we make a mistake thinking positive what happines then?
Artie, you're missing my point. After, and I am emphasising the word "after" the decision is made what shot to shoot, you will always do better thinking positive.

All the possibilities should be factored in before you make a decision which shot to shoot, AFTER you weigh up all the possibilities and finally decide on a particular shot, THEN you must view it in a positive way.

I don't understand why people are having a problem interpreting my reasoning. I'm not saying that you have to view the wrong shot and try to make it the right shot because you think you can do anything, that's not what i'm saying and I believe that is what you think.:confused:

[Skin]

Skin,

I think that if you look at this layout the Ghost (oh I hate to say it) is closer to the correct results. If you hit the 1 ball the way you showed, it would not even hit the 3 ball. Jeez I hate it when the Ghost is right.

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGOO4COQU2EFti3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFfY4Qcxu2REwM4UGOO4UMlH4UOaxzc4WOQU4WdgA2kFfY4kFox4kOfqzc4lcxu2leqm2mEwM4mLyK@

I guess I understand that diagram, Dennis. Not sure. The point is that if the cb and 1 are angling off in opposite directions (on are REAL table :) ), you're going to potentially wind up with no follow-up shot. I won't shoot the combo as it lays on the WEI. But I am not quibbling...well, not much anyway. :cool:

Skin

[wincardona]

Bill,

I do understand your position now. Once you are done thinking then go ahead and shoot. It is the most difficult thing in sports to do, stop thinking when you are performing. Thinking has no place in the actual performance of the task at hand, except beforehand.

Dennis
Thank you.

[One Pocket Ghost]

The 5 ball was just an arbitrary ball in this situation and not a viable shot choice so consequently I didn't bother to take the time to position it as it actually was in my game....I have reajusted it's location to where it actually was, in this new/correct layout, so anybody who picked the bank shot option, make another choice now >>>



http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGWX4COQU2ENUj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu@



- Ghost


PS, And skin, as I first said, and as Dennis and Billy have visualized it, the combo was just a hair off of dead on....and if shot, the 1 ball would have followed a tangent line about the way that Dennis 'weied' it.

[wincardona]

Exactly what I was thinking, Rod. That will set me up for the 3 next and with the cb in the opening of the hole, I can get low on it to play position for the 1 after the 3.

The way the combo sits in the WEI, it looks like the cb and 1 must go in opposite directions in order to sink the 3. I could wind up, as a result, with a worse cut angle on the 1 than what's already there on the 12. Or even worse, leave him a makeable cut on the 1 if the 3 doesn't drop rather than a bank if I miss the cut.

Cutting the 12 is the shot, imho.

Skin
Skin, if you read his problem accurately, you will see that the combo is fairly straight, and you can play position on the next ball comfortably.

[CaliRed]

All the possibilities should be factored in before you make a decision which shot to shoot, AFTER you weigh up all the possibilities and finally decide on a particular shot, THEN you must view it in a positive way.

I don't understand why people are having a problem interpreting my reasoning. I'm not saying that you have to view the wrong shot and try to make it the right shot because you think you can do anything, that's not what i'm saying and I believe that is what you think.:confused:

I would shoot the cut shot too, while the banking the 5 will move another ball down near my pocket, I feel more comfortable cutting the ball.

I understand fully what your saying, Billy. After you have decided what ball your going to shoot, you've thought about where you want to leave the cueball, you've weighed the pros and cons of what shot and the consequences of it, after everything has been decided, THEN put your total focus on executing what you have decided. It doesn't do any good to continue thinking about if you miss and what happens if this happens and all that. Forget about everything else except making the ball and getting the shape you want. That should be the picture in your mind, of you doing that. This is something that every person should do in any sport, it's just alot harder to do then it sounds.

[One Pocket Ghost]

I think you have misenterpreted my reasoning, I do understand that any shot can be missed no matter how simple it may appear. My point is, once you have evaluated a situation and choose an option you must then forget about the consequense if missed. After you have commited youself to a challenge, you will always do better if you feel good about what you are taking on. In this case lets say we choose to shoot the combination, I do understand the advantage and disadvantages this shot may produce before I shoot it, but ONCE I MAKE A DECISION I then forget about the consequense if I miss, and totally focus on the shot, and invision it in a positive way.



Billy.......This is the same thought process that I use and that I believe strongly in also....and I always teach/stress this focused manner of thinking when I give a One Pocket lesson.


- Ghost

[wincardona]

As weak as I am executing, I would probably bank the 5. Not the worst shot in the world.

the Beard

Freddie, you are an extremely intellegent person, why can't you understand that the question is what shot would you shoot between the 12 ball or the combination. I know banks is your best game, but give us a break.:rolleyes:

[wincardona]

I would shoot the cut shot too, while the banking the 5 will move another ball down near my pocket, I feel more comfortable cutting the ball.

I understand fully what your saying, Billy. After you have decided what ball your going to shoot, you've thought about where you want to leave the cueball, you've weighed the pros and cons of what shot and the consequences of it, after everything has been decided, THEN put your total focus on executing what you have decided. It doesn't do any good to continue thinking about if you miss and what happens if this happens and all that. Forget about everything else except making the ball and getting the shape you want. That should be the picture in your mind, of you doing that. This is something that every person should do in any sport, it's just alot harder to do then it sounds.

You are 100% correct, that it is very hard to do, but if you are aware of the right thing to do, and the way you should handle it in regard to evaluating, choosing, and then concentrating on your decision, and then try to put that into practice, you will develope a better understanding of it, and it will be easier for you to do the next time and so on. We can make ouselves comfortable with just about anything, if we believe in it and PRACTICE it, time and time again.

[wincardona]

Billy.......This is the same thought process that I use and that I believe strongly in also....and I always teach/stress this focused manner of thinking when I give a One Pocket lesson.


- Ghost
What took you so long to rescue me, I would of been there for you in a much shorter amount of time. Anyways I appreciate your endorsement and feel much better.:cool:

[Cowboy Dennis]

and I always teach/stress this focused manner of thinking when I give a One Pocket lesson.
- Ghost


Hey Ghosty,

How much do you charge for lessons? I think I may need some.

Dennis

[Cowboy Dennis]

make another choice now >>>

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGfO4COQU2EMfj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu@
- Ghost
.


O.K. I pick this one.:D

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGfO4COQU2EMfj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu2YMfj4Ycpt2kFOY2kNdV2kQfm2kaDq1kbXp1kTNX2uDCN@

[One Pocket Ghost]

What took you so long to rescue me, I would of been there for you in a much shorter amount of time. Anyways I appreciate your endorsement and feel much better.:cool:



Sorry for the delay Billy - been out all day and just got home, that's what took me so long....Don't forget, I'm not quite as old as the rest of you old farts yet, so I still get out of the old computer chair and go out and do things....:rolleyes:....:D....:cool:


- Ghost

[lll]

billy their is no question once you beleive in your shot you must BELEIVE

[One Pocket Ghost]

Hey Ghosty,

How much do you charge for lessons? I think I may need some.

Dennis



Dennis.......Here's how I'll answer that, and then you can try and guess the prices....:D....

My hourly rate for One Pocket lessons is approx. 1/15th of the hourly rate that my 'nurse' Keiko charges for her services....:eek:....:D....;)


- Ghost <--------Giving One Pocket lessons to help the U.S.A.'s Economic Stimulus.....:cool:

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Sorry for the delay Billy - been out all day and just got home, that's what took me so long....Don't forget, I'm not quite as old as the rest of you old farts yet, so I still get out of the old computer chair and go out and do things....:rolleyes:....:D....:cool:


- Ghost You can feel poitive before every shot. But you have to learn to hadle the pressure. Thinking positive will not work. And you will feel the pressure you cannot make it go away. Because you and youre mind knowes its a crushel shot that will win you the game or loose the game. If you learn to excepte the fear and the pressure then and only then can you handle the fear and the pressure.You have to learn to handle pressure and stress and thinking positive will not get it done. I have tought myself what to do and how to handle the pressure when it comes. You can not make it go away NOBODY. You have to face it and chalange it and if you can get youself to enjoy it and learn to handle it you will be OK. If not you will always be sressed afraid and fear. Just watch the great players in a stress and fear situation and you will see who is afraid and who handels it better then the other player. And some players go through all kinds ove changes. Because the dont no how to handle fear pressure and stress. And other people rise to the ocation. And Efren and Buddy Hall are two ove the good ones that handle it good. And I wont mention any names about players that fall apart under pressure.You either learn to handle it or fear it for the rest ove your life. Its something you have to learn. And some players love to play when the pressure is on them and it makes them strong and powerfull when they executie and perform under fear presure and stress. Telling youself that you will exicute and make the shot is positive. But will being positive be strong enough to get you through the pressure situation.

[Cowboy Dennis]

My hourly rate for One Pocket lessons is approx. 1/15th of the hourly rate that my 'nurse' Keiko charges for her services....:eek:....:D....;)
:


With the cost of "medical" care being so high, I figure that she charges between $200 & $300 per hour for her services. So let's see, that means that you charge $13.33 to $20 per hour. It's a good thing you don't give lessons for a living Ghosty.

[vapros]

This is a very good discussion to have when addressing a shot at your pocket, like the the combination we have today. You think positive and proceed to hit it the best you can. But should that same attitude prevail when you are in deep trouble and the best shot you can find stinks? Can we hit such a shot with a positive attitude, too? :confused:

[One Pocket Ghost]

With the cost of "medical" care being so high, I figure that she charges between $200 & $300 per hour for her services. So let's see, that means that you charge $13.33 to $20 per hour. It's a good thing you don't give lessons for a living Ghosty.



Dennis......You had better go back and look at Keiko's picture again, as you have insulted her, and you have very severely underestimated what she has to offer....Keiko's not a 40 yr. old, working at an airport area massage parlors....:rolleyes:....for $200 & $300 per hour, all you could get from her is a 'chat' with her over the phone.....:cool:


- Brother-Man, Ghost......:D

[Cowboy Dennis]

Dennis......You had better go back and look at Keiko's picture again, as you have insulted her, and you have very severely underestimated what she has to offer....Keiko's not a 40 yr. old, working at an airport area massage parlors....:rolleyes:....for $200 & $300 per hour, all you could get from her is a 'chat' with her over the phone.....:cool:


- Brother-Man, Ghost......:D


Ghosty,

Since you are intimately familiar with the vice cops...er, uh, I mean the health professionals, I suppose that you would know the going rates for that type of service.

P.S. Why would someone pay to talk to a women on a phone? I've always tried to get them off of the phone.

Dennis

[gulfportdoc]

The combination is insanely difficult to make. Koehler said something in one of his books on the physics of pool, that shooting a combination where the two OBs are a foot apart, and the forward ball is a foot from the hole, has the same difficultly as shooting a cueball straight into a corner pocket-- from 300 feet away!!:eek:

I'd either cut the 12; bank the 5 with inside; or even 3-rail the 10 with follow-- before I'd shoot the combination.

Doc

[One Pocket Ghost]

O.K. I pick this one.:D

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGfO4COQU2EMfj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu2YMfj4Ycpt2kFOY2kNdV2kQfm2kaDq1kbXp1kTNX2uDCN@



Yeah, well, after you shoot that bank and miss, your opponent will be shooting the 1 ball in and running out....:rolleyes:....:cool:


- Cutter

[Skin]

This is a very good discussion to have when addressing a shot at your pocket, like the the combination we have today. You think positive and proceed to hit it the best you can. But should that same attitude prevail when you are in deep trouble and the best shot you can find stinks? Can we hit such a shot with a positive attitude, too? :confused:

vapros, I think that is a very good question. I don't know how to answer it, though, because I don't think in those terms when I play. It takes way too much energy. I select and plan with a healthy dose of intuition and execute with instinct (my subconscious mind). In between I simply tell myself, "Don't choke". There is a minimum of "thinking". Anything more usually turns out to be me brain-f'ing myself.

That doesn't mean my way is the right way for anybody except me. Ted Williams ws extremely analytical about hitting and was great. He wrote a book titled The Science of Hitting where he explained all his theories and techniques. Stan Musial was great also. When he was asked to explain hitting he replied, "You wait for a strike, then you knock the shit out of it." :D

Skin

[Artie Bodendorfer]

The combination is insanely difficult to make. Koehler said something in one of his books on the physics of pool, that shooting a combination where the two OBs are a foot apart, and the forward ball is a foot from the hole, has the same difficultly as shooting a cueball straight into a corner pocket-- from 300 feet away!!:eek:

I'd either cut the 12; bank the 5 with inside; or even 3-rail the 10 with follow-- before I'd shoot the combination.

Doc Her is a good one dont nobody delite it. Every shot is a combination the cue ball and the object ball. Or havant you herd that before.

[philwelch]

I had this situation when I was playing yesterday....it's not a moving shot choice, it's a shooting choice, and I guess it comes down to personal preferences/skills of combos vs. cutshots....

I had pocket A and I'm down 5 balls to 4....I just made a bank and left myself like the diagram shows....my question to myself was should I shoot the combo or the cut shot - the combo is pretty much dead-ahead on, but with a lot of space between the balls....I can get position shooting either shot - neither shot is too difficult - but, they are also both very missable....

Anyway, the result was, I finally chose the cut shot - probably because I hit thin cuts better than I do combos of a similar difficulty level....I missed it, but hit it decent....left it hanging in the jaws, with my opponent snookered on it by the 1 and 3 balls....

So which of the 2 shots would you guys have chose?


- Ghost


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGfO4COQU2EMfj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu@
Cut shot no question.

[philwelch]

Everyone knows, or at least they should know that any time we take on a challenge, it's somewhat stressfull. Depending on how we view the challenge will determine how much stress we put on ourselves. Perception is reality. If we view a challenge like Artie say's and make it exciting opposed to fearing it, you will do better. In this instance I view the combination as the correct shot in my mind, before hand, that alone will lessen stress. I then focus on the positive, not what will happen if I miss, i've already understood that before I made my choice of options.

Whether your good or bad at shooting any type of shot, once you have made a commitment to shoot it, you will always do better if you view it in a positive way.

I hope I have cleared up how I view a challenge AFTER making a commitment
I agree 100% Bill! Negative thoughts lead to negative results.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

vapros, I think that is a very good question. I don't know how to answer it, though, because I don't think in those terms when I play. It takes way too much energy. I select and plan with a healthy dose of intuition and execute with instinct (my subconscious mind). In between I simply tell myself, "Don't choke". There is a minimum of "thinking". Anything more usually turns out to be me brain-f'ing myself.

That doesn't mean my way is the right way for anybody except me. Ted Williams ws extremely analytical about hitting and was great. He wrote a book titled The Science of Hitting where he explained all his theories and techniques. Stan Musial was great also. When he was asked to explain hitting he replied, "You wait for a strike, then you knock the shit out of it." :D

Skin Very good qouistion. And what if the session is over and you lost. What happines to a positive attitude. Will get him next time. If you no what you are doing and what you have to do to do it. That will give you confedence. And this is the most important part. No matter what anybody says. If you can handle whatever comes your way. THen thier is nothing to fear. Fear comes from not knowing what will happen. And if we can handel whatever happines then the fear no longer controles YOU.

[gbru]

What took you so long to rescue me, I would of been there for you in a much shorter amount of time. Anyways I appreciate your endorsement and feel much better.:cool:


Billy....thanks a lot for your elaboration on the thinking process......Those are excellent points that you make and I for one need to be reminded about that part of my game from time to time.

Often times during partner games or friendly games others will remind me that I'm jumping up or not following thru enough but rarely does someone remind you to not be thinking while you are shooting.....Probably has to do with they can't read minds.....but that is what's great about these discussions.

That is the first time I've heard that advice in some time.

On the shot selection I feel more confident on cutting the 12 and sending the cue ball into the 9 ball and hopefully kissing off it for shape on the 3 ball.


Thanks again.....george

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Billy....thanks a lot for your elaboration on the thinking process......Those are excellent points that you make and I for one need to be reminded about that part of my game from time to time.

Often times during partner games or friendly games others will remind me that I'm jumping up or not following thru enough but rarely does someone remind you to not be thinking while you are shooting.....Probably has to do with they can't read minds.....but that is what's great about these discussions.

That is the first time I've heard that advice in some time.

On the shot selection I feel more confident on cutting the 12 and sending the cue ball into the 9 ball and hopefully kissing off it for shape on the 3 ball.


Thanks again.....george I havant herd yet what the odds are on the combination. Its sweeping the nation.

[blackeee]

I had this situation when I was playing yesterday....it's not a moving shot choice, it's a shooting choice, and I guess it comes down to personal preferences/skills of combos vs. cutshots....

I had pocket A and I'm down 5 balls to 4....I just made a bank and left myself like the diagram shows....my question to myself was should I shoot the combo or the cut shot - the combo is pretty much dead-ahead on, but with a lot of space between the balls....I can get position shooting either shot - neither shot is too difficult - but, they are also both very missable....

Anyway, the result was, I finally chose the cut shot - probably because I hit thin cuts better than I do combos of a similar difficulty level....I missed it, but hit it decent....left it hanging in the jaws, with my opponent snookered on it by the 1 and 3 balls....

So which of the 2 shots would you guys have chose?


- Ghost


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGfO4COQU2EMfj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu@

The only combo I can make is a hanger. So I shoot the cut.

[androd]

I agree 100% Bill! Negative thoughts lead to negative results.

This is absolutely correct. Although us weaker players still do it sometimes.
Rod.

[One Pocket Ghost]

Oh yeah, let me add this....

The sweators watched me deliberate on the two shot-choices for a minute....then I decided on the cut, and didn't make it, as I said earlier....immediately one of the sweators pipes up with..."ya shoulda shot the combination"....

Don't we all just love the, 'was never wrong/missed from the rail' type of railbirds/sweators in the pool room....:rolleyes:....:mad:


- Ghost

[Skin]

Oh yeah, let me add this....

The sweators watched me deliberate on the two shot-choices for a minute....then I decided on the cut, and didn't make it, as I said earlier....immediately one of the sweators pipes up with..."ya were supposed to shoot the combination"....

Don't we all just love the, 'was never wrong/missed from the rail' type of railbirds/sweators in the pool room....:rolleyes:....:mad:


- Ghost

Yes, well there is a saying that goes something like, "I have a plentitude of advisors, would that I had as many benefactors." Tell 'em that and I guarantee they won't say anything else...because they will think you are weird. ;)

Skin

[Artie Bodendorfer]

This is absolutely correct. Although us weaker players still do it sometimes.
Rod. Tell that story to the guy that lost 30 bets in a row. Think popsitive that will help him. Thats like a guy that lost 30football bets in a row. And then someone tells him why dont you bet basketball. And the guy repies what do I know about basketball. And thinking positive for a looser will not help. It sounds good but it does not change anything.

[wincardona]

Bill,

I do understand your position now. Once you are done thinking then go ahead and shoot. It is the most difficult thing in sports to do, stop thinking when you are performing. Thinking has no place in the actual performance of the task at hand, except beforehand.

Dennis
That's funny, I just read a quote that said " Don't shoot in the thinking position, and don't think in the shooting position":cool:

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Tell that story to the guy that lost 30 bets in a row. Think popsitive that will help him. Thats like a guy that lost 30football bets in a row. And then someone tells him why dont you bet basketball. And the guy repies what do I know about basketball. And thinking positive for a looser will not help. It sounds good but it does not change anything. I havant herd no odds on the combanation. It must be imposable.How does 2 to one sound? And the cut shot is even money. And not leaving a shot on the combination are 25 to one. And leaving a shot with the cut shot is 13 to 10. Witch shot do you like know. And how about your next shot? You might have to shoot the combination. But nobody talks about it. I guss its bad to ask qouistions if nobody answers them. I guess silence is golden.

[Skin]

I havant herd no odds on the combanation. It must be imposable.How does 2 to one sound? And the cut shot is even money. And not leaving a shot on the combination are 25 to one. And leaving a shot with the cut shot is 13 to 10. Witch shot do you like know. And how about your next shot? You might have to shoot the combination. But nobody talks about it. I guss its bad to ask qouistions if nobody answers them. I guess silence is golden.

Artie, there is no way to know what the best shot is unless you see the balls on a real table. Ghost has already moved the 5 ball since starting the thread and did not begin by showing how the shots (slice or combo) would turn out position-wise on a real table. Without any of that, you might as well pick numbers from a black bag to set the odds. It is useless trying to figuire any of it out, IMHO.

Skin

[One Pocket Ghost]

Ghosty,

Since you are intimately familiar with the vice cops...er, uh, I mean the health professionals, I suppose that you would know the going rates for that type of service.

Dennis



Dennis.......The only way I know anything about certain types of 'rates'....is from what the degenerate bachelors at the pool room have told me....;)


- The Innocent Ghost

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Artie, there is no way to know what the best shot is unless you see the balls on a real table. Ghost has already moved the 5 ball since starting the thread and did not begin by showing how the shots (slice or combo) would turn out position-wise on a real table. Without any of that, you might as well pick numbers from a black bag to set the odds. It is useless trying to figuire any of it out, IMHO.

Skin You can see by the angles what can be done. And I would take two to one and bet I run tree balls in one pocket from this position. The cobination is probably a three to two bet to make a ball. But to run 3 balls from the combination. The way its laying I would not take two to one. All odds are made up odds. Thats what people do when they play each other. Odds is only a price that will get two way action it does not mean its a good price or who will win. Its a betting price so people will bet both ways. Anther words I would but up a price on the cut shot I would take 6 to 5 that he misses the shot and I would give you even moneyif he makes it. And if I have ten people betting on the shot both ways I will get all the money.Thier is a lot you can do with odds. And that is one ove my specialies .But you can make odds on anything. Because the prices are not solied and you can manouver off the ods. But thats all together another Ballgame.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Yeah, well, after you shoot that bank and miss, your opponent will be shooting the 1 ball in and running out....:rolleyes:....:cool:


- Cutter


Ghosty, the guys I would shoot the 5 against couldn't run out of a room full of doors. You have to let 'em think they have a chance.:)

[gulfportdoc]

The degree of difficulty seems about the same with either shot, but the combination is a much more rewarding shot. Most importantly, when shooting these type of shots all emphasis should be put on pocketing the shot, and missing is not an option. You have to eliminate all negative thoughts, when shooting shots of this importance, forget about leaving a return shot, concentrate soley on pocketing the shot. It's when you start thinking, what will happen if I miss? that will cost you sometimes more than you can afford. Remember try to make yourself feel positive before shooting any shot.
Billy, I agree with your psychological advice. But you're wrong about the two shots being of equal difficulty. The combination is far more difficult than is the cut shot, under normal playing conditions.

In Galveston I'll lay you $20-$5 that you can't make that combination. And you can take the bet 5 times in a row. I might even give the same bet to Bodendorfer.

I may have to set the identical shot up in a different spot on the table, because --knowing you two thieves-- you'd probably spend hours practicing that shot, just for bragging rights.:rolleyes:

Doc

[jrhendy]

Ghosty, the guys I would shoot the 5 against couldn't run out of a room full of doors. You have to let 'em think they have a chance.:)

That's the only kind of guys Ghosty plays Dennis.

Whoops! He challenged me to play in Galveston. I may have my game overated.

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Billy, I agree with your psychological advice. But you're wrong about the two shots being of equal difficulty. The combination is far more difficult than is the cut shot, under normal playing conditions.

In Galveston I'll lay you $20-$5 that you can't make that combination. And you can take the bet 5 times in a row. I might even give the same bet to Bodendorfer.

I may have to set the identical shot up in a different spot on the table, because --knowing you two thieves-- you'd probably spend hours practicing that shot, just for bragging rights.:rolleyes:

Doc I would take your bet at 4 to 1 but we have to bet a little higher and playing the shot 5 times in a rowis Ok too. The amount is the only problem. You are a nice guy and I dont think you should be looking to gamble because you will get eaten alive. And gambling is noy your racket. Billy and I have been gambling our whole life do you realy think that you want to go up
against that. My advice is dont gamble unless you want to loose your money. And you dont know enough to win. Youre a real nice guy stay a nice guy and dont get like the nice guys that finish last. But If you want to bet you will have to showe me that you are serious . And bet something this is not kindergarden. And betting that cheap is like not betting at all. I understand you are trying to back up your point. But you are better off not betting. I have read a lot ove your replies. And take my word you should not be looking to gamble. Unless you want someone to take advantage ove you. But if you belive in what you wrote then raise the bet and we will see what will happen. The best place for your money is in your pocket.

[wincardona]

Billy, I agree with your psychological advice. But you're wrong about the two shots being of equal difficulty. The combination is far more difficult than is the cut shot, under normal playing conditions.

In Galveston I'll lay you $20-$5 that you can't make that combination. And you can take the bet 5 times in a row. I might even give the same bet to Bodendorfer.

I may have to set the identical shot up in a different spot on the table, because --knowing you two thieves-- you'd probably spend hours practicing that shot, just for bragging rights.:rolleyes:

Doc

Doc, i'm hoping you remember all our challenges, because I want to live up to my billing of a thief, and relieve you of your money.

It was The Ghost that originally said that neither shot was that difficult, so he's the one that you should be laying $20 to $5. But if you prefer that I take your money, I have no problem with that. :cool:

[wincardona]

I would take your bet at 4 to 1 but we have to bet a little higher and playing the shot 5 times in a rowis Ok too. The amount is the only problem. You are a nice guy and I dont think you should be looking to gamble because you will get eaten alive. And gambling is noy your racket. Billy and I have been gambling our whole life do you realy think that you want to go up
against that. My advice is dont gamble unless you want to loose your money. And you dont know enough to win. Youre a real nice guy stay a nice guy and dont get like the nice guys that finish last. But If you want to bet you will have to showe me that you are serious . And bet something this is not kindergarden. And betting that cheap is like not betting at all. I understand you are trying to back up your point. But you are better off not betting. I have read a lot ove your replies. And take my word you should not be looking to gamble. Unless you want someone to take advantage ove you. But if you belive in what you wrote then raise the bet and we will see what will happen. The best place for your money is in your pocket.

I disagree with you Artie, I think Art (Doc) has an excellent understanding of gambling and should be relieved of his money (no matter how much or little )if he likes his side. Maybe he has our game underrated, and then maybe not.:confused:

[wincardona]

Billy, I agree with your psychological advice. But you're wrong about the two shots being of equal difficulty. The combination is far more difficult than is the cut shot, under normal playing conditions.

In Galveston I'll lay you $20-$5 that you can't make that combination. And you can take the bet 5 times in a row. I might even give the same bet to Bodendorfer.

I may have to set the identical shot up in a different spot on the table, because --knowing you two thieves-- you'd probably spend hours practicing that shot, just for bragging rights.:rolleyes:

Doc


I have another prop for you Doc, i'll take 4 shots to make the combo for a bet, than i'll take 3 shots for another bet. $20 a bet is fine, but we have to do it every day your in Galveston, that way breakfeast will be on you.:cool: :p :cool:

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Doc, i'm hoping you remember all our challenges, because I want to live up to my billing of a thief, and relieve you of your money.

It was The Ghost that originally said that neither shot was that difficult, so he's the one that you should be laying $20 to $5. But if you prefer that I take your money, I have no problem with that. :cool: Because sombody beats you out ove your money does not make them a thief. It means that you dont know what you are doing and want to get beat. And because you give your money away. Is because you want to loose and you want to show that you have gamble. And no body robs you or forces your decision. If you want to give your money away thats your decision. And if you want someonr to take advantage ove you in a game or bet you have no chance. its all you. And you want to get beat. Or WHY else would you go for a game you have no chance. And then cry and say he robbed me. You wanted it to happen. And you let it happen. And you are responsable for what you did. And you should apolagize calling Billy a Thief. Thats a low blow and showes no class. I dont care what you call me or say about me. I understand why people say things like that. And I know why people loose thier money. And then cry Wolf. The want people to know they got robbed and the put the plaim on the other personfor taking advantage ove them. But you wanted someone to take advantage ove you . Why else would you make a bet not knoweing what ypu are doing.And calling someone a thief is not very becomming from a classy guy like you. Its a suckers beef.

[androd]

Doc, In the layout I choose the cut shot.
I'll try the combo 9 times and see if I can make it twice.(or more)
Rod. <---getting to be a coattail puller in my old age.

[One Pocket Ghost]

It was The Ghost that originally said that neither shot was that difficult, so he's the one that you should be laying $20 to $5. But if you prefer that I take your money, I have no problem with that. :cool:



Billy.......If you take my fish, please don't forget my snap.....:D


- Ghost


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGWX4COQU2ENUj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu@

[wincardona]

That's the only kind of guys Ghosty plays Dennis.

Whoops! He challenged me to play in Galveston. I may have my game overated.

John I hope our partner game is still on, only because i'm being staked, and I want to see Artie squirm when I shoot all my wrong shots. For me, playing mistake free onepocket has always been a problem.

I got some bad news for you John, Artie staked me about 12 years ago and I won. Could history repeat itself ?

Another thing that I noticed is that your playing and gambling with the Filipino's, preparing youself for other games, that's pretty smart. Kinda like going into the ring with Mike Tyson to sparr, and then later taking on a real fight with Pee Wee Herman.:)

[wincardona]

Because sombody beats you out ove your money does not make them a thief. It means that you dont know what you are doing and want to get beat. And because you give your money away. Is because you want to loose and you want to show that you have gamble. And no body robs you or forces your decision. If you want to give your money away thats your decision. And if you want someonr to take advantage ove you in a game or bet you have no chance. its all you. And you want to get beat. Or WHY else would you go for a game you have no chance. And then cry and say he robbed me. You wanted it to happen. And you let it happen. And you are responsable for what you did. And you should apolagize calling Billy a Thief. Thats a low blow and showes no class. I dont care what you call me or say about me. I understand why people say things like that. And I know why people loose thier money. And then cry Wolf. The want people to know they got robbed and the put the plaim on the other personfor taking advantage ove them. But you wanted someone to take advantage ove you . Why else would you make a bet not knoweing what ypu are doing.And calling someone a thief is not very becomming from a classy guy like you. Its a suckers beef.
Artie, he didn't mean it that way, he was just playin, at least with me. ( I think):D

[wincardona]

Billy.......If you take my fish, please don't forget my snap.....:D


- Ghost


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGfO4COQU2EMfj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu@
That goes without saying, but more importantly, keep coming with these props, no tellin how much money we can extract from these guy's.:cool:

[jrhendy]

John I hope our partner game is still on, only because i'm being staked, and I want to see Artie squirm when I shoot all my wrong shots. For me, playing mistake free onepocket has always been a problem.

I got some bad news for you John, Artie staked me about 12 years ago and I won. Could history repeat itself ?

Another thing that I noticed is that your playing and gambling with the Filipino's, preparing youself for other games, that's pretty smart. Kinda like going into the ring with Mike Tyson to sparr, and then later taking on a real fight with Pee Wee Herman.:)

Yes, our game is still on if I don't blow too much to The Ghost first. Maybe I'll play him after our game.

The only thing I learned, after resting in my chair and watching Santos run balls, was the new tight 4" pockets are not as tight for the Filipino's.

I also received a severe tongue lashing from RA for losing race track $$.

[One Pocket Ghost]

Yes, our game is still on if I don't blow too much to The Ghost first. Maybe I'll play him after our game.

The only thing I learned, after resting in my chair and watching Santos run balls, was the new tight 4" pockets are not as tight for the Filipino's.

I also received a severe tongue lashing from RA for losing race track $$.



John.......You ducked my question from 2 days ago where I asked you how you played Santos....I guess you didn't want to snitch yourself off...but hey, you could have at least lied, just for entertainment value....:D


- Ghost

PS, The Ghost has a few friends up there around Sacramento, Tom, George Michaels, etc....maybe I'll make a call to find out how you played....:)

[SJDinPHX]

Yes, our game is still on if I don't blow too much to The Ghost first. Maybe I'll play him after our game.

The only thing I learned, after resting in my chair and watching Santos run balls, was the new tight 4" pockets are not as tight for the Filipino's.

I also received a severe tongue lashing from RA for losing race track $$.

Let me guess. You went against his superior handicapping skills, and bet on a nag thats still running...as opposed to his SURE winner..:rolleyes:
How could you have been so naive John ? (I suppose his pick came in, and paid $42.50)

[wincardona]

Yes, our game is still on if I don't blow too much to The Ghost first. Maybe I'll play him after our game.

The only thing I learned, after resting in my chair and watching Santos run balls, was the new tight 4" pockets are not as tight for the Filipino's.

I also received a severe tongue lashing from RA for losing race track $$.

I remember about 20 years ago, I think it was around that time ( memory problems) that I was playing Reyes about 3 to 4 times a week. We played 9 ball, and mostly onepocket, but playing Reyes was a great experience, and I benefited in many ways, mainly the confidence I developed to play anyone else in the world without the fear of who they were. In spite of being 45 years old and coming off of a hiatus. Shortly after that I went to Reno to play in the Reno Open at the Sands Hotel. Earl Strickland beat me in the finals of that tournament, but I played well, had him 5-0 race to 9 and only shot one more time and lost 9 to 5. But what I did remember then, was that I felt that I was the favorite no matter who I played and that's the way I performed.:cool: So if I hear of you playing the Filipino's anymore you have to give up a ball.:p

[jrhendy]

Let me guess. You went against his superior handicapping skills, and bet on a nag thats still running...as opposed to his SURE winner..:rolleyes:
How could you have been so naive John ? (I suppose his pick came in, and paid $42.50)

We JUST MISSED a big score, but the odds are with us and we will certainly get them next time.

Actually, we played in the Chuck Markulis Memorial 9 Ball Tournament at Hard Times. I drew Raphael Martinez for my first match (Who ended up winning the tournament) and Ronnie drew a guy who came in 5th/6th. The guy couldn't play though and just got lucky.

91 players and a good tournament. Raphael 1st, Santos 2nd & Parica 3rd. Funny how those lucky guys always end up on top.

[KindlyOleUncleDave]

The 5 ball was just an arbitrary ball in this situation and not a viable shot choice so consequently I didn't bother to take the time to position it as it actually was in my game....I have reajusted it's location to where it actually was, in this new/correct layout, so anybody who picked the bank shot option, make another choice now >>>



http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGWX4COQU2ENUj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu@



- Ghost


PS, And skin, as I first said, and as Dennis and Billy have visualized it, the combo was just a hair off of dead on....and if shot, the 1 ball would have followed a tangent line about the way that Dennis 'weied' it.

If one is attempting to elicit valid shot selection opinions from a knowledgeable group, why would they place "an arbitrary ball" (which they describe as not being in the position it occupied in the game being represented) on the table? Ball positions, having the importance that they do in this game, ESPECIALLY at 5-4, ..... ooooops ... have to stop now before I question someone's medication levels.....

12, 10, 3, 1, 5 .... end of problem

[SJDinPHX]

Artie, he didn't mean it that way, he was just playin, at least with me. ( I think):D


Which way...... ????

[One Pocket Ghost]

If one is attempting to elicit valid shot selection opinions from a knowledgeable group, why would they place "an arbitrary ball" (which they describe as not being in the position it occupied in the game being represented) on the table? Ball positions, having the importance that they do in this game, ESPECIALLY at 5-4,



KOUDave.......Just for you, cuz I know it's important to you, I'm going to more clearly define the relevance of that 5 ball that you're obsessed with....:rolleyes:...

The 5 ball is actually...semi-arbitrary, to this discourse....:D.....:cool:


- Ghost

[Cowboy Dennis]

If one is attempting to elicit valid shot selection opinions from a knowledgeable group, why would they place "an arbitrary ball" (which they describe as not being in the position it occupied in the game being represented) on the table? Ball positions, having the importance that they do in this game, ESPECIALLY at 5-4, ..... ooooops ... have to stop now before I question someone's medication levels.....

12, 10, 3, 1, 5 .... end of problem


KOUD,

The Ghost, prankster that he is, loves getting SJD all upset by moving balls around AFTER he has has made his shot selection. Arbitrary balls, extra balls, wrong ball counts, mislabeled pockets, it's all just part of the plan to frustrate Dick. Here is an actual representation of the WEI layout that the Ghost should have posted.

P.S. Why are shooting at the bottom pocket. You should have known that the correct pocket is the top one.

P.S.S. Some moron had also laid his cue on the table right before the shot. Ghosty had to shoot around it.

Dennis

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGWX4COQU3IbEF1JOCj4LUyU2PFOY3QcQs2SDjN4TCCd2phpA1qKxNTHE_10_BALL'S_ACTUAL_LOCATION.&MAYBE.&ZZ2rQtIWHAT_5_BALL_ARE_YOU_REFERRING_TO_KOUD?&ZZ3saAdTHE_9_BALL_MAY_OR_MAY_NOT_HAVE_BEEN_HERE.&ZZ2tTKnTHERE_WAS_ALSO_A_PIECE_OF_CHALK_BLOCKING_THE_CUEBALLS_PATH._I_FORGOT_TO_MENTION_IT.&ZZ@

[gulfportdoc]

And calling someone a thief is not very becomming from a classy guy like you.
Artie-- Thank you for the compliment. The "thieves" reference was obviously intended as a friendly jest. Billy got it, you took offense. That's life. When we meet, I have a hunch you'll see that I'm not as much of a sap as you might think I am; and that I'll find out that you're not as much of a bonehead as I might think you are.

I'm half German. We'll eat some wiener schnitzel and potato pancakes, and then we'll be uber buds for life.

Doc

[vapros]

I don't care what anybody says. This here's funny. :D :p

[jrhendy]

John.......You ducked my question from 2 days ago where I asked you how you played Santos....I guess you didn't want to snitch yourself off...but hey, you could have at least lied, just for entertainment value....:D


- Ghost

PS, The Ghost has a few friends up there around Sacramento, Tom, George Michaels, etc....maybe I'll make a call to find out how you played....:)

Ghost, I played him 9/7, 8/6 race to four for $300. I had just won a smaller bet and put the Henderson parlay system into effect. He beat me 4/1 and I think I would need 9/6 to have a chance of winning.

If I feel like playing I will often take the worst of it. Everybody knows I don't drive down there to sit on the bench.

It makes me a sucker in many peoples eyes, but that's the way I have been doing it all my life and I'm not changing now.

I do get lucky and book a winner once and a while. Hope you will be one of them in Galveston.

[gulfportdoc]

I have another prop for you Doc, i'll take 4 shots to make the combo for a bet, than i'll take 3 shots for another bet. $20 a bet is fine, but we have to do it every day your in Galveston, that way breakfeast will be on you.:cool: :p :cool:
It turns out that I'm glad you didn't take my original prop. I went to the poolroom today to try it out. It took me 5 attempts to make it. But then I had 3 guys try the shot. The first guy, a name player, missed it, and didn't shoot it again. He felt that 3-1 on the dough was about right. Then another good player stepped up and snapped it in on the first try. He tried it a few more times, but couldn't make it again. The 3rd guy was an average player. Surprisingly he made it 3 out of 5 attempts!

I think the shot plays slightly easier than I imagined, because the OB is approx. only 1-1/2 diamonds in length away from the pocket. I suppose if the shot were backed away 6-8", it would be much more difficult. BTW, I made the cut shot on the first attempt. It's a far easier shot.

So-- in order to not be a complete squelcher, I'll still bet you dinner that you can't make the combo in 3 tries. If you lose, I promise not to order steak and lobster.:cool:

Doc

[One Pocket Ghost]

Ghost, I played him 9/7, 8/6 race to four for $300. I had just won a smaller bet and put the Henderson parlay system into effect. He beat me 4/1 and I think I would need 9/6 to have a chance of winning.





Yep....like what I said in that other post...that I hoped you didn't take any less than 10-7.


- Ghosty

[SJDinPHX]

Ghost, I played him 9/7, 8/6 race to four for $300. I had just won a smaller bet and put the Henderson parlay system into effect. He beat me 4/1 and I think I would need 9/6 to have a chance of winning.

If I feel like playing I will often take the worst of it. Everybody knows I don't drive down there to sit on the bench.

It makes me a sucker in many peoples eyes, but that's the way I have been doing it all my life and I'm not changing now.

I do get lucky and book a winner once and a while. Hope you will be one of them in Galveston.

If my math is correct John, that would mean we would only need about 9/7... from the Ghrost and Doc, in a partner game...Sound about right ?
(mum pool of course)

[gulfportdoc]

If my math is correct John, that would mean we would only need about 9/7... from the Ghrost and Doc, in a partner game...Sound about right ?
(mum pool of course)
I'd be happy to play with Ghost as my partner anytime. But since Ghost plays at least two balls better than I, y'all would have to figure that into the mix. I suspect we'd have to GET 9-7, or better.

Since Ghost has played Hendy, if he likes the game, I'm in. On the other hand, Henderson is an animal. When he starts talking $1000 per game, I start looking for the exit. I've never played for more than $50 a game.

Doc

[chopstick]

There are more bad things that can happen shooting the 12 than there are good things. There are more good things that can happen shooting the combo and few if any bad things. Both shots are about equal difficulty. I like the 5 as well.

Me being naturally devious, I would probably make the 9 and leave him frozen on one of the points of the side pocket. If he wants to go for it from there, I would be happy to sit in the chair and say good shot.


http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGWX4COQU2ENUj3IbEF1JbRJ4LUyU2PFOY4Qcxu2kFOY4kURE4kblu3kanb4kWUJ@

[KindlyOleUncleDave]

KOUD,

The Ghost, prankster that he is, loves getting SJD all upset by moving balls around AFTER he has has made his shot selection. Arbitrary balls, extra balls, wrong ball counts, mislabeled pockets, it's all just part of the plan to frustrate Dick. Here is an actual representation of the WEI layout that the Ghost should have posted.

P.S. Why are shooting at the bottom pocket. You should have known that the correct pocket is the top one.

P.S.S. Some moron had also laid his cue on the table right before the shot. Ghosty had to shoot around it.

Dennis

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AGWX4COQU3IbEF1JOCj4LUyU2PFOY3QcQs2SDjN4TCCd2phpA1qKxNTHE_10_BALL'S_ACTUAL_LOCATION.&MAYBE.&ZZ2rQtIWHAT_5_BALL_ARE_YOU_REFERRING_TO_KOUD?&ZZ3saAdTHE_9_BALL_MAY_OR_MAY_NOT_HAVE_BEEN_HERE.&ZZ2tTKnTHERE_WAS_ALSO_A_PIECE_OF_CHALK_BLOCKING_THE_CUEBALLS_PATH._I_FORGOT_TO_MENTION_IT.&ZZ@

For explaining the whole enchilada with such disarming satire. I decided, last year, to become more civil in my pocket billiard related activities and so could not give the situation the 'attention' which I thought it so richly deserved. Up until the not too distant past this episode would have caused me great anguish (as I stood on top of the table and screamed at the imagined offender) but no longer for I am changed. Forgive my umbrage, Ghosty, please ... a long ago buddy once wisely advised against my arguing with folks such as yourself.

Gee ... this moral high ground feels GOOD. And the fields of fire are outstanding! And my groveling has nothing to do with my money being in Ghost's pocket.

[One Pocket Ghost]

Up until the not too distant past this episode would have caused me great anguish (as I stood on top of the table and screamed at the imagined offender) but no longer for I am changed. Forgive my umbrage, Ghosty, please ...


Valium is your friend....;)



a long ago buddy once wisely advised against my arguing with folks such as yourself.



Uuh....and what kind of folks is that, exactly?...:rolleyes:....not sure I really want an answer....:D....:o



Gee ... this moral high ground feels GOOD.


What high moral ground?....:rolleyes:


- Ghost

[jrhendy]

If my math is correct John, that would mean we would only need about 9/7... from the Ghrost and Doc, in a partner game...Sound about right ?
(mum pool of course)

IF we allow coaching I think we could lower the spot to 9/7, 8/7 and would have them screaming at each other after two or three games.

[KindlyOleUncleDave]

Valium is your friend....;)

Uuh....and what kind of folks is that, exactly?...:rolleyes:....not sure I really want an answer....:D....:o

What high moral ground?....:rolleyes:


- Ghost

Valium was never MY friend .... nor even an interest ... now, Juan Valdez and HIS crowd, the cousins and such ... they had it goin' ......

What kind of folks ...... come on ....you know ......

That moral high ground which gives one clear fields of fire. Rarely does one have all three. You are not a military buff I see ....

[One Pocket Ghost]

That moral high ground which gives one clear fields of fire.



Dave......That's a good line - I like it.




You are not a military buff I see


Actually, I partially am....particularly the Vietnam War....have read about 20 books about it, including all of the major ones.


- Ghost