Adopt *new* Official One Pocket Rules

[onepocket]

Okay, let's try this again. Given the weak state of 'Official' One Pocket rules (including the BCA rules), since OnePocket.org was launched it has been a high priority here at OnePocket.org to develop more complete and accurate standardized rules for the game of One Pocket. If you have been visiting OnePocket.org for long you have certainly seen several discussion threads and polls on various rules topics. The Complete Rules page here at OnePocket.org reflects those discussions and polls:
http://onepocket.org/one_pocket_pool_rules.htm

A couple of months ago we conducted a poll to see whether to adopt these rules. However, at that time the rules failed to generate significant enough approval to warrant official adoption. I have since made additional small changes to the 'Official' OnePocket.org One Pocket Rules to reflect comments that came up last time and will now try again.

Please review the "Proposed Official Rules for One Pocket" (http://onepocket.org/one_pocket_pool_rules.htm)and register your vote! If you have visited the OnePocket.org rules page recently then you may need to refresh your screen to see the proposed final 12/20/04 updated version! (Sorry, the PDF version is not up to date at this time!)

If you do elect to vote 'No', please leave a comment here with your suggestions for how these rules should be improved -- that's the only way we can improve them!

[Troy]

Reference 9.3, "Spotting Balls Under a Handicap Situation".
I suggest that the player needing more than 8 balls place coins near their pocket to signify the correct number of balls "owed" to reach a "standard" game. As each ball is spotted, that player removes one coin.
This should reduce any arguement about the score.

Troy

[NH Steve]

Reference 9.3, "Spotting Balls Under a Handicap Situation".
I suggest that the player needing more than 8 balls place coins near their pocket to signify the correct number of balls "owed" to reach a "standard" game. As each ball is spotted, that player removes one coin.
This should reduce any arguement about the score.

Troy
That's exactly what is suggested on the One Pocket Handicaps page, I just didn't think it was necessary in the actual rules. Darn good practice, though!
http://onepocket.org/handicaps.htm

Looking at the Handicaps page, I can see that it ought to also describe some of the many more unusual handicaps -- besides just the standard ones listed now.


'Hit and the Pick' -- Meaning a spot of the break as well as the opportunity to pick up a ball of your choosing and put it in your scoring tray
'Hit and a move' -- The same as 'pick', except you don't get to keep the ball, it just gets spotted
'My front to your back' -- The stronger player takes a back corner pocket instead of one of the standard front pockets
'Scratches don't count' -- a strong handicap if the player receiving it knows how to take advantage in playing safe
'One Pocket to Five' -- Supposedly the way the game of One Pocket originated; the strong player gets only one pocket and the weak player gets all the others
'One Pocket to Three' -- Like One Pocket to five, except the weaker player gets all three pockets on the opposite side of the table
'One and Stop' -- the stronger player can only make one ball at a time, then must play safe
'X No Count' -- where the stronger player must run at least 'X' number of balls in the same inning or they don't count, they just spot back up


There's more, too, of course, but these jump to mind at the moment...

[hhilario]

Is it possible to make a vertical comparison of rules? I mean, seeing the actual play rules, the proposed one, BCAs, etc. compared point by point (where it applies).

[nah2ofounten]

I am not an experienced one pocket player, but I am an English major, a lawyer, and have a great love of pool. Based upon these, I feel it is important that the rules are stated as clearly as possible and leave as few questions as possible. Accomplishing this avoids opportunity for interpretation and disagreement. I have read the rules, and they are all clear and straightforward. BUT . . . My problem is the following wording of Rule 8 addressing frozen balls: "by pocketing the frozen ball, or by contacting either another ball or another cushion enroute to a legal shot."

What ball, cue ball or object ball, must contact "another ball or another cushion"?
If whatever ball is meant by the above contacts "another ball" do you also have to drive a rail?
What does "enroute to a legal shot" mean? It would seem to me that the goal is not the "process" of achieving a legal shot but rather the act of "accomplishing" a legal shot.

It may be that I do not have enough understanding of the game, maybe I am overthinking this, but I just wanted to offer this.

Finally, for the ease of application, wherever reference is made to General Rules or World General Rules, I would suggest that you insert the text of the referenced rule in the One Pocket Rules.

[suki]

Okay, let's try this again. Given the weak state of 'Official' One Pocket rules (including the BCA rules), since OnePocket.org was launched it has been a high priority here at OnePocket.org to develop more complete and accurate standardized rules for the game of One Pocket. If you have been visiting OnePocket.org for long you have certainly seen several discussion threads and polls on various rules topics. The Complete Rules page here at OnePocket.org reflects those discussions and polls:
http://onepocket.org/one_pocket_pool_rules.htm

A couple of months ago we conducted a poll to see whether to adopt these rules. However, at that time the rules failed to generate significant enough approval to warrant official adoption. I have since made additional small changes to the 'Official' OnePocket.org One Pocket Rules to reflect comments that came up last time and will now try again.

Please review the "Proposed Official Rules for One Pocket" (http://onepocket.org/one_pocket_pool_rules.htm)and register your vote! If you have visited the OnePocket.org rules page recently then you may need to refresh your screen to see the proposed final 12/20/04 updated version! (Sorry, the PDF version is not up to date at this time!)

If you do elect to vote 'No', please leave a comment here with your suggestions for how these rules should be improved -- that's the only way we can improve them!
Can you clairify rule 6, under fouls. You state disturbing of a ball is not a foul. What about disturbing 2 or more balls at once which happens quite often when using a bridge to reach a shot. I know Chet Ito of California Billiards has a rule in his montly tournament that if you disturb 2 or more balls it is a foul. I know the rule about the path. Maybe that rule should be clarified. Thanks

[NH Steve]

Can you clairify rule 6, under fouls. You state disturbing of a ball is not a foul. What about disturbing 2 or more balls at once which happens quite often when using a bridge to reach a shot. I know Chet Ito of California Billiards has a rule in his montly tournament that if you disturb 2 or more balls it is a foul. I know the rule about the path. Maybe that rule should be clarified. ThanksIn my opinion that falls more under general rules than specific One Pocket rules, which is why the One Pocket rule doesn't go into the specific details -- they are already covered in the General Rules. Below is the World Standard Rule regarding 'cue ball fouls only' -- and I notice it doesn't mention anything about moving two balls, although I have heard that interpretation as well. However, we're only taking on re-writing the One Pocket rules, not the general rules here...

From the WPA web site:
1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY

When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball) with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot. It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls.

At the non-shooting player's option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul.

It is still a foul to make any contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a shot.

[NH Steve]

I am not an experienced one pocket player, but I am an English major, a lawyer, and have a great love of pool. Based upon these, I feel it is important that the rules are stated as clearly as possible and leave as few questions as possible. Accomplishing this avoids opportunity for interpretation and disagreement. I have read the rules, and they are all clear and straightforward. BUT . . . My problem is the following wording of Rule 8 addressing frozen balls: "by pocketing the frozen ball, or by contacting either another ball or another cushion enroute to a legal shot."

What ball, cue ball or object ball, must contact "another ball or another cushion"?

If whatever ball is meant by the above contacts "another ball" do you also have to drive a rail?
What does "enroute to a legal shot" mean? It would seem to me that the goal is not the "process" of achieving a legal shot but rather the act of "accomplishing" a legal shot.

It may be that I do not have enough understanding of the game, maybe I am overthinking this, but I just wanted to offer this.

Finally, for the ease of application, wherever reference is made to General Rules or World General Rules, I would suggest that you insert the text of the referenced rule in the One Pocket Rules."What ball, cue ball or object ball?" Neither the cue ball or object ball is specified because either one could work, as long as the shot goes on to meet general legal shot requirements...

The phrase "enroute to a legal shot" is intended to refer to the usual requirements of contacting an object ball, then a rail for a legal shot. Rule number 8 does not waive the usual standard requirements, it is just intended to clarify a special situation that is very uncommon in other pool games, but fairly common in One Pocket.

As far as inserting the General Rules, I hope that isn't necessary because these proposed One Pocket rules are already fairly long, and the General Rules are already available elsewhere...

[Smorgass Bored]

I'm curious why 100 people have viewed this thread and only 6 have voted. What's up ?

[NH Steve]

I'm curious why 100 people have viewed this thread and only 6 have voted. What's up ?
Good question.
Maybe they're waiting for you to weigh in :)
Or they are leaving the voting to the 'tournament directors'

I haven't voted on the rules because I was so involved in writing them...
I would like to consider abstention equivalent to tacit approval :)
Of course I would prefer that members actually vote.

[NH Steve]

I am not an experienced one pocket player, but I am an English major, a lawyer, and have a great love of pool. Based upon these, I feel it is important that the rules are stated as clearly as possible and leave as few questions as possible. Accomplishing this avoids opportunity for interpretation and disagreement. I have read the rules, and they are all clear and straightforward. BUT . . . My problem is the following wording of Rule 8 addressing frozen balls: "by pocketing the frozen ball, or by contacting either another ball or another cushion enroute to a legal shot."

<snip>nah2founten, I like your statement: "I have read the rules, and they are all clear and straightforward." :) That is definitely the goal. The situation that this rule addresses looks like a variation of this:
START(
%AN7O5%BD2I1%CN4D8%DL7N1%EE0M4%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JG7D5
%KJ8I8%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OF8F6%PC8M7%QA8[3%RA7A8
)END

These often come up pinched in and frozen after a series of progressively delicate safeties played by nudging the cue ball between the five ball (in the diagram) and the bottom rail. As long as there is air between either the five and the cue ball or the rail and the cue ball, a slight nudge into the five, along with the slight carom into the rail that follows, is the standard safety -- all done ever so gently so that an escape route under the five ball doesn't open up.

The player with pocket A is in a very difficult trap, but if he can force player B to open up 'air' under the 5 ball, then he can escape by playing a safety off the 2 or the 15.

Player B meanwhile is hoping that player A will be forced to flush out the cue ball -- allowing him to clean up!

If you can come up with wording that you think clarifies this, we would naturally be interested!

[nah2ofounten]

How about "either frozen ball"? When you use "the" it indicates that you are referring to a particular one.

[nah2ofounten]

Hell, now I have confused myself. Here is what I meant:

"by pocketing the frozen ball, or by eiher frozen ball contacting a cushion or causing another ball to contact a cushion."

Does this work?

[ajrack]

Most rules.. in most games .. are in a state of flux.. most of the time. Why not start with these rules then "adjust" as we continue?

*special rules note* the phrases "touch a ball" and 'disturb a ball' mean something different..I use the phrase "disturb a ball" in the tourneys that I run..it is usually easy to see a ball "move" but the "touch" is hard to see for those casual spectators and opponents...

In my larger payoff tourneys>>> I "ALWAYS" have REFEREES!!!

[hhilario]

Is it possible to make a vertical comparison of rules? I mean, seeing the actual play rules, the proposed one, BCAs, etc. compared point by point (where it applies).

Ok, I did my own crossrule check and found something missing. At which point, during the break, does the player select a pocket?

In point 2.1 the rules says: "The breaking player selects their own pocket, and in subsequent games, either player is free to change their pocket selection on their own break." BCA's say:"SELECTION OF POCKETS - Prior to the opening break shot, the starting player chooses one of the corner pockets on the foot end of the table as a target pocket; the opponent then has the other foot end corner as a target pocket." Also, Texas Express stablish the same thing: selecting the pocket prior the break.

Is it implied that breaking from a side of the table assigns the shooter the opposite end corner pocket?

Please, bring me some light.

[NH Steve]

Ok, I did my own crossrule check and found something missing. At which point, during the break, does the player select a pocket?

In point 2.1 the rules says: "The breaking player selects their own pocket, and in subsequent games, either player is free to change their pocket selection on their own break." BCA's say:"SELECTION OF POCKETS - Prior to the opening break shot, the starting player chooses one of the corner pockets on the foot end of the table as a target pocket; the opponent then has the other foot end corner as a target pocket." Also, Texas Express stablish the same thing: selecting the pocket prior the break.

Is it implied that breaking from a side of the table assigns the shooter the opposite end corner pocket?

Please, bring me some light.
As regular One Pocket players, we probably just took that for granted! As it stands, Rule 2.1 coupled with Rule 1 "Object of the Game" might already make it clear enough anyway.
Quote from Rule 1 "Object of the Game":
One Pocket is a game for two players or two teams, where each player or team can only score into one of the two corner pockets on the foot end of the table, while the other player or team can only score into the other corner pocket at the foot end of the table.

However, It might be clearer on its own if 2.1 read something like:

Prior to breaking, the breaking player selects one of the corner pockets on the foot end of the table as their own, thus the opponent is assigned the other corner pocket by default. In subsequent games, the breaking player is free to change their pocket selection on their own break.

If you all think that would be better, I will go ahead and make the change. Any comments?

As far as your question about " Is it implied that breaking from a side of the table assigns the shooter the opposite end corner pocket?"
Yes, as long as the breaking player employs the standard opening break, their pocket choice is generally accepted as "implied". If they plan on a rail first break, or otherwise unusual break, they best make their choice clear first however!

[hhilario]

Yep, I think making that clear will help the rules grow old and stable.