Question on two rail banks.

[Eight & Out]

I have no problem making short rail and long rail banks.I make a large percentage of these banks but I would like to have a better percentage on two railers.Does anyone use systems to make these banks like the diamond system or some other system?What percentage of two railers would you say you make?

Pete

[jack]

I have no problem making short rail and long rail banks.I make a large percentage of these banks but I would like to have a better percentage on two railers.Does anyone use systems to make these banks like the diamond system or some other system?What percentage of two railers would you say you make?

Pete

what sort of two railers? there's the full table "hit into the corner" hit, which is what i assume you're talking about, or the double bank style....

two railers are hard for me given that the various angles you can go into them from can vary greatly and really affect where the shot goes...that being said, they're definitely useful and something i need to practice much more....

[Eight & Out]

Sorry , I meant into the long rail then short rail to my pocket.

[Chris Cass]

Sorry , I meant into the long rail then short rail to my pocket.

Would you be so kind to use the WEI table. I just have a hard time with picturing this. You mean?

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?,

C.C.~~ :confused:

[Eight & Out]

Chris, this is what I am talking about.
Thanks.
Pete

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[vapros]

I believe the two-rail banks, side rail first, are difficult for most people - they certainly are for me. (The one in your diagram would be super-tough, and would generally come up well short.) I don't know how practical it would be to apply the diamond system to these shots, and would expect the mirror-image table might be a greater help.

For me, it is usually a lag shot and if I get the object ball inside the first diamond on both rails in my neighborhood, I consider it successful. I have always tried to get a bit of holding english on the object ball, hoping to shorten the angle off the head rail, but lately it looks like that is a bass-ackwards approach, and running english works better, opening up the angle on the first rebound. That's not my official opinion just yet.

I have been hoping to see some input on this from some of the better players. How about it?

[NH Steve]

For me, it is usually a lag shot and if I get the object ball inside the first diamond on both rails in my neighborhood, I consider it successful. I have always tried to get a bit of holding english on the object ball, hoping to shorten the angle off the head rail, but lately it looks like that is a bass-ackwards approach, and running english works better, opening up the angle on the first rebound. That's not my official opinion just yet. I like the 'hold up' english too, because it helps the object ball go from starting positions quite a bit farther out towards the middle of the table. Either english works depending on the shot -- if you adjust for it! It can be confusing to visualize the correct english to 'hold up' the ball, because it doesn't really take until the ball goes into the short end cushion -- it just slides off the long rail at the typical two-railer approach angles.

I wouldn't play the shot illustrated by eight and out, because it would leave the cue on the wrong side of the rack. But put the cue ball and object ball here, and i would definitely like it:

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[Rod]

Not that I'm all that great but this shot isn't on, it will hit way short. Now you could hit deeper with inside and get closer but is it worth the risk? I mean the c/b is going to hit the 5 ball. You could use a little draw and hide the c/b between the 5 and 13 but I don't like that either, you might get in trouble.

Sometimes it's better depending on skill level to just pass. Possibly pocket the one in the side and follow whitey over to the top rail, via end rail first. I use the diamond system to a degree. If you don't know then just shoot the one ball with the cue making sure you don't use english. That will tell you where it will go. In a game if your not sure just pass rather than sell the farm on a one ball shot, besides in this case you don't want to make it anyway. If it was possible to get in the area and hide the c/b that is what you want. IMO of course. I don't see a great offensive move here.

Rod

[Chris Cass]

Chris, this is what I am talking about.
Thanks.
Pete

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Wow Pete,

That seems to be tough for me as well. I will say the diamond sys isn't the way to go most of the time. I'm leaning towards the Parallel system. Something like this

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It would make more sence. Oh, you must use running english in this system.

Regards,

C.C.

[Rod]

I posted a reply to this thread right after Vapros. It isn't there, so where did it go? If I click on my user name I can find the post but of course it isn't shown on this thread. Hey really I ain't smoking any of that funny stuff, lol just wandered where it went??? Is it shown on any of your computers? confused, but that could be normal

Rod

[laces]

I pray to the pool gods every night that someone will try and two rail a ball from that position.

[Eight & Out]

What's wrong with this shot?A little bit of high on the cue-ball it goes toward my oponents side rail and with pocket speed I either make the ball or it's close to my pocket.

Pete

[Troy]

You talking about this post Rod ???
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?postid=220#poststop
It's right after Vapros as you said... :)

Troy
I posted a reply to this thread right after Vapros. It isn't there, so where did it go? If I click on my user name I can find the post but of course it isn't shown on this thread. Hey really I ain't smoking any of that funny stuff, lol just wandered where it went??? Is it shown on any of your computers? confused, but that could be normal

Rod

[laces]

This shot just dosen't do you any good. There are a lot of things that could go wrong and a lot better options to move balls towards your hole. If you put that close to your hole I would just knock it away, and if you put it in the jaws I would just make it. You could also break up the cluster by my hole. And on top of that it is a tough shot with all of one ball to gain.

[NH Steve]

What's wrong with this shot?A little bit of high on the cue-ball it goes toward my oponents side rail and with pocket speed I either make the ball or it's close to my pocket.

PeteOn most tables, if the object ball is any farther over than about the foot spot, that two-railer won't go, unless you catch the point on the far end short rail. Catching that point is as Grady is fond of saying "Fraught with danger" (I probably spelled it wrong, oh well).

The shot off the foot spot generally requires a very good hit with significant transferred english to get enough 'hold-up' on the end rail to come near your pocket. That kind of hold up english does not permit "high on the cue-ball it goes toward my oponents side rail", IMO You don't get good transfer of english without hitting more of a center ball stroke...

[Rod]

You talking about this post Rod ???
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?postid=220#poststop
It's right after Vapros as you said... :)

Troy

Yep that's the one. However on my puter it isn't after his post. There are two boxes that say more replies below current depth. It only has one page. Before I logged in, it had two pages. Just odd and the only thread that has a slight problem. After I posted and did not see anything I thought I lost a marble, not real diffult sometimes but I don't need any help. LOL

Rod

[Pelican]

I feel that two railing an object ball is a very low percentage shot and would only use if it is free. I use it primarily to duck and move a ball nearer my pocket at the same time.

[onepocket926]

...I've always been a "bass akwards"....bank player.............probably due to my name...."Blind Paul"......and my not wanting to study the..."approved methods"....of banking....I'm sure due to my laziness....lol.....but in my defence it works for me...and I make a lot of multi-rail banks......"Railroad Tracks"....paralell lines...and I put just a smidge of outside english ....(how much depends on how the table rolls)......give it a try...when you practice next....what have ya got to loose.....lol...unless your bettin' against yourself...