Efren/Derby

[yobagua]

Last night Efren played a match game giving a local player 13 to 6 for some jellybeans. He showed why he is the best one pocket player alive today for the cabbage. He ran out from nowhere running 8's, 9's, and 10's. With his opponent needing one ball that sat in front of his hole. Where can you leave this guy? You put him frozen to a ball and he kicks out and puts balls in front of his hole and locks you up behind the ball in your hole. Or he masses and twirls an impossible ball right in the heart of his pocket. Leave him long and force him to shoot and he just drills it in. The guy he played was no dummy but he just kept shaking his head after Efren just got out of every trap and ran out.
Even Mika was sitting on the sidelines taking notes in his head with the look of an awe strucked child.
Efren was playing very fiercly and focused throughout as I guess he had to make his expenses for Louisville. I spoke to him and he said he will be playing Cliff. In probably a race set up. He said his people are working it out. He will just come to play. He will be traveling with Santos. I hope you guys who will be there will report back to us posters with results of the action. I was privelege to watch Wimpy match up and Ronnie Allen as well as Danny D. It was a great privilege to watch Efren.

[One Pocket Ghost]

Yoba, was this Efren session played at Hard Times in Bellflower ?.......and you're not going to miss going to Derby City again are you ? Ghost

[gulfportdoc]

I spoke to him and he said he will be playing Cliff. In probably a race set up. He said his people are working it out. He will just come to play. He will be traveling with Santos. .

Yobagua, thanks for the great report on the Magician. Did you mean that he and Cliff may match up in a private game at the DCC locale? Whever they play, I hope someone will report to us here at 1p.org!!

Doc

[yobagua]

Sorry Ghost I got to stay and work. I know Im going to regret it but I got to take care of my family. Thats why Im bummed out about the live telecast from BCN. The match did not take place at Hardtimes but in a popular spot in Santa Monica.
Efren and Cliff will play in a match game. From what I understand they played at last years Derby in a race to 8 and Efren gave him a ball and won in a close tough match. This one is going to be for a ton of Jelly beans.
Im still day dreaming about all those creative shots Efren made and how he got out of the traps. This guy attempts banks off the tips off the pocket! He caromed off an object ball and the CB went into another ball and banked that ball into his hole. He is a genius.

[gulfportdoc]

From what I understand they played at last years Derby in a race to 8 and Efren gave him a ball and won in a close tough match. .

I wonder if it was 9-8, 10-9, or what? I doubt if it would have been 8-7.

Doc

[hemicudas]

I wonder if it was 9-8, 10-9, or what? I doubt if it would have been 8-7.

Doc
That's a good point, Doc. How bout it, Yo, what was the one ball spot.

[NH Steve]

I posted this on one of the other forums after last year's DCC:

The best pool I saw was definitely watching Efren Reyes. After watching Efren for quite a few hours over the course of the week, I noticed that he seems to approach the table differently from other players (I’m not always real quick on the uptake :) ). Watching him look over the table when he is getting ready to shoot, he moves around a lot less than most players – often just standing still in one spot for quite a while, then maybe moving to another side of the table and standing there for a while; only rarely, and ever so briefly, does he bend down to take a closer look at anything. I wonder if it isn’t because he ‘thinks’ about the game differently than other players – almost as if while others are thinking hard solely with the cognitive part of their brain, Efren is using whole other parts of his brain to ‘feel’ out his options in his own primal ‘pool language’.

By the way, Efren was being shadowed by a reporter from the NY Times supposedly, supposedly doing some kind of feature on 'The Magician'.

I even had a chance to watch Efren play a little chess with Corey Deuell (with Corey hitting up Efren for a spot of rook -- naturally :) ), and I saw that same kind of focus playing chess as he played out potential moves in his mind, before he made his actual move on the board. No wonder he likes chess – and One Pocket!

One night Efren and Cliff Joyner matched up in a race to eight for a bundle, with Efren giving Cliff 8-7. They battled pretty evenly until about 6-6, when Efren pulled away for the win. Efren made a sweet long cross corner bank with just barely enough legs to reach his pocket for the final ball to close out the set. Naturally even if he had missed, he laid the cue ball right up on the head rail. The shot was something like this:

START(
%Cn8D8%Gq1Y4%Jr7X7%Or5D1%Pp2D1%QA8A9%RA5[4%UE3W1%Vn5C5%W]9Z7
%Xn3E1%Yr8I9%Zk0C3%[D5D4%\\8[1%eA4`9%f3%g7%_G1Z7%`E2X9%aD3W9
%bj2C9%cX9O8%dG9[3
)END

Here’s an old Efren Reyes story told to me by a player by the name of Willie Flieson from Chicago: “When Efren first came through Chicago, I made a Rotation game with him, and I really thought I had him. If at any time in the game, Efren failed to hit the lowest ball on the table, I won; if at any time I asked Efren what pocket he had made any ball, if he couldn’t name the pocket, I won; if at any time I asked Efren what the count was, if he couldn't say the score, I won. And, I only had to get 30 points. At that time, I was a pretty good player, but I couldn’t win. Whenever Efren couldn’t hit a ball directly, he wouldn’t kick at it, he’d masse around the balls to hit it. I didn’t have a chance.”

By the way, Efren consistently warmed up with a little casual rotation, and at one point he easily ran off a couple of racks and then walked away for his match without a miss. The consensus opinion seemed to be that the Philipine players did not play either one Pocket or Banks before they invaded over here.

The Chicago players also talked about how Efren wasn’t a great banker when he first came through Chicago – many players were beating him at banks. But after he stayed around a while, he had learned enough that he could hold his own, and the rest, as they say, is history :)

Other players talked about how when Efren first came to Philly, the top players were giving him something like 10-8 and beating him, but after just a few days the handicaps reversed, with Efren giving them 10-8.

Of course if you got tired of watching Efren, there were a dozed or so pretty good match ups going on either in the tournament room or the ‘practice room’ at all hours of the day or night (and I do mean all hours).

[yobagua]

Sometimes Efren will stand looking at the table or a shot for the longest time. You'd think, "its straight in Efren. What are you looking at?". I concluded that Efren looks at the whole table like a general looking at the battlefield. He is looking at the whole situation like you do in chess. Most of us just look at the shot. Like we are grunts looking at the immediate problem. Im trying to adjust to this kind of mental approach. My one hole game has seriously improved because of this.

On the other hand something remarkable did happen with Efren the other night. His opponent scratched and Efren had ball in hand, with a lot of open balls. Efren got down and missed straight in. Every one jumped up as if they had been goosed. "Efren misses too??? He's human like the rest of us!!!" Efren immediately put his stick down and went directly to the mens room. He realized he had to go and have a talk with the mirror. In the meantime his opponent needing 6 ran five and dogged his out ball straight in his hole. Efren coming back with a clear mind needing 3, cleanly banked in a long one and sliced cleanly his two out balls with a slow spin to hold up his rock. Ill bet watching Efren missing BinH from the kitchen is a real rare sight, indeed! I was there.

[One Pocket Ghost]

Well, I hate to be a dark cloud, instead of a ray of sunshine, but I feel obligated to my fellow forum members ( and any prospective sideline bettors ), and in the name of historical accuracy, to make a special report on the Efren/Cliff match last year in derby city. Along with Steve, I was also there watching the whole match, and a shot that happened in game 14 caused quite a lot of murmuring among the railbirds.....As Steve said, the score was 6 to 6, then Efren won the next game to go ahead 7 to 6.....Early in game 14 with the score something like 1 to 1, it's Cliff's shot and the cue ball is near the center of the table....2 or 3 balls are loose and the remaining 10 balls are still in a cluster around where they were originally racked....Cliff has no way to produce any offense with his shot, so he elects to just shoot a simple safety, softly cutting a ball that is on his side of the table near the side pocket and dropping the cue ball below the cluster to the bottom rail....It's a simple, basic, lag safety that any shortstop would execute 10 out of 10 times....Well, Cliff slices the object ball too thin, ( hitting it worse than my girlfriend would have ), sending the cue ball right into the stack and spreading out balls towards Efrens! pocket....Efren proceeds to run 6 or 7 balls, I forget exactly, and easily wins the game and the match, after this sell out by Cliff....A very anti-climactic, disappointing and thought-provoking ending to the match.

[Smorgass Bored]

Sure, Efren playing Cliff is entertaining, but for sheer excitement and suspense, you needed to see gulfportdoc dismantle Smorgass Bored at Grady's GCC tournament.... Oy-Vey ! (I haven't recovered YET)


(I can't believe that I got to mention Doc and I in the same sentence with EFREN & CLIFF)

[piglit]

Hi all- been enjoying the site for looong, finally got the motivation to register...

Want another example that Efren doesn't thing like the rest of the pool world? He did the following in Glen Burnie, MD (8 years ago, or so). Most of us would shoot the 8 in and bank the 1, yes:
START(
%AM2Y3%HG2M3%PO3S9%WH1N9%XO0S9%YN4O3%ZC5N7%[C9N3%\G0M7

)END

But not Efren. On multiple occasions, he just shot the 8, went 2rails and bumped the 1 out to shoot it straight in!:
START(
%AK9Y3%HF6K2%PL6P4%WG3L3%XL3P2%YC3O8%ZF4K7%[J1Z7%\B8P2%]K6Z6
%^J5[3
)END
leaving:
START(
%AL8T8%PP7Y4

)END

And for a further glimpse into the mind- I asked him why he didn't just play the bank, he said, "oh, straight in is more easy for me". :eek: YEEEOOOWWW! :eek:

-piga

[gulfportdoc]

Sure, Efren playing Cliff is entertaining, but for sheer excitement and suspense, you needed to see gulfportdoc dismantle Smorgass Bored at Grady's GCC tournament.... Oy-Vey ! (I haven't recovered YET)


(I can't believe that I got to mention Doc and I in the same sentence with EFREN & CLIFF)

Well, actually that should be "...Doc and me", but you may have a point about that match. JoeyA remarked that it was one of the most incredible come-backs he'd ever heard of; and I know personally that it will be a contest for both of us to look back at time and time again, so as to recapture the excitment of it all... :cool:

[Jimmy Caruso]

That's a good point, Doc. How bout it, Yo, what was the one ball spot.
It was 8 to 7. I have this from several persons who saw it firsthand. Unfortunately I missed it! It's hard to believe as well as Cliff played throughout the rest of the tournament. I even saw him walk away with 7K playing ring nine ball at $800 a man.

[OldHasBeen]

I watched the entire match between Efren & Cliff. I was totally amazed by Efren's playing. I only hope someone has it on tape. Believe me, he is playing a different level of One Pocket than anyone else. He shoots, thinks & moves at a much higher level than anyone.
Now remember. I've seen some of the BEST play One Pocket since Johnston City and "On The Road" for over 20 years.
I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS LEVEL OF ONE POCKET!

TY & GL

[gulfportdoc]

I watched the entire match between Efren & Cliff. I was totally amazed by Efren's playing. I only hope someone has it on tape. Believe me, he is playing a different level of One Pocket than anyone else. He shoots, thinks & moves at a much higher level than anyone.


Ty, several have suggested Cliff's game was off during his contest with Efren. Do you think Cliff would have had a chance against Efren if Cliff's game was on, or do you believe that Efren's play was so overpowering that the 8-7 spot would be considered too small at any time? I understand Efren beat Cliff last year with the same spot, although less one-sidedly.

Doc

[OldHasBeen]

The spots not too small - The talent is too large. Like I said - He is playing an all together different game at a much higher level. It's wierd.

TY & GL

[One pocket Smitty]

It's my understanding that last year Efren was giving 8-6 and won that too. Cliff said Efren was the only player he feared.---Smitty

[yobagua]

As I said in my original post. Efren was playing so flawless the day before he left for Louisville. I thought there is no one who can beat him now. He was playing a friend of mine 13/6. Efren was making all his banks and making moves that were perfect. He got out of every trap and just left you scratching your head going "is there anyplace I can leave this guy?" I dont care if you had a ball in your hole. He would get out.

[gulfportdoc]

The spots not too small - The talent is too large. Like I said - He is playing an all together different game at a much higher level. It's wierd.

TY & GL

I understand what you mean. They used to say that about Jack Nicklaus in his prime. But anyone can be matched up. How do you think Efren and Cliff would have to play to be on equal footing? 8-6? 9-6? 10-7? Just curious.

Doc

[OldHasBeen]

I think The only way for Cliff to play Efren would be;

1st - Who ever is losing money, breaks.

2nd - Cliff starts with 4 games on the wire going to 11 for a large amount of K's. The spoting of games on the wire doesen't effect the losing of individule games lost and every time they are even in games won, they lag for the next break.

3rd - They must post and agree to play at least 3 sets this way and Cliff's games on the wire would be adjusted (by one) according to how the last set came out.

AND MOST IMPORTANT - I GET A FRONT ROW SEAT.

TY & GL

[Jimmy Caruso]

That's a pretty healthy spot! I know that Efren made it look easy in Louisville, but this spot anticipates Efren playing his very best game, which is what he did in Louisville. With this spot, I think Cliff would eat him for breakfast, if Efren wasn't at the top of his game. As uneven as it seemed in Louisville, Cliff, in my opinion, is a much better player than that event showed. I think a slower, progressive spot would be a better way to go. Say, 9-7, then maybe 10-7 or 8-7, depending on the outcome over a reasonable number of games or sessions. If in the final analysis Efren dominates at 10-7, for example, then he would be undisputed champion in terms that all one pocket players will be able to readily understand.