All Three or One at a Time?

[Cowboy Dennis]

The scenario, since I am tired of seeing the same damn layout every day, is one that I have posted before and still have not received a well thought out and reasonable response. Meaning anything outside the box.

It is this: You are giving up 9-8 and have not made a ball yet. You also owe a ball for a foul. Your opponent has 7 balls and it's your shot with 8 balls on the table. In the course of running balls in your pocket, you inadvertently pocket a ball in the side pocket. You run the seven balls on the table and now you and your opponent must decide how to spot up the balls that need to be spotted. It is still your shot.

The 15th ball is in the side pocket, you need one for the 9-8 spot, and you owe one for a foul.

How would you think they would spot up? Please leave out official rules or common house rules and think about which balls should spot up and when, why or how. Use common sense and experience to make your call.

Please don't just give the usual, lazy, "I don't want to think too hard about it" poolplayer answer. Give a reason why you would put up the balls in the order or manner that you would. I already know what non-thinking , lazy poolplayers would do, please be different.

Dennis

[SJDinPHX]

The scenario, since I am tired of seeing the same damn layout every day, is one that I have posted before and still have not received a well thought out and reasonable response. Meaning anything outside the box.

It is this: You are giving up 9-8 and have not made a ball yet. You also owe a ball for a foul. Your opponent has 7 balls and it's your shot with 8 balls on the table. In the course of running balls in your pocket, you inadvertently pocket a ball in the side pocket. You run the seven balls on the table and now you and your opponent must decide how to spot up the balls that need to be spotted. It is still your shot.

The 15th ball is in the side pocket, you need one for the 9-8 spot, and you owe one for a foul.

How would you think they would spot up? Please leave out official rules or common house rules and think about which balls should spot up and when, why or how. Use common sense and experience to make your call.

Please don't just give the usual, lazy, "I don't want to think too hard about it" poolplayer answer. Give a reason why you would put up the balls in the order or manner that you would. I already know what non-thinking , lazy poolplayers would do, please be different.

Dennis

I cannot understand why you would worry about such a scenario...The only person in the world you could possibly give 9/8, would be Quad, and you know you would steamroll him into accepting your rules...???? :rolleyes: :confused: :D :eek:

[Cowboy Dennis]

I cannot understand why you would worry about such a scenario...The only person in the world you could possibly give 9/8, would be Quad, and you know you would steamroll him into accepting your rules...???? :rolleyes: :confused: :D :eek:


Ducky,

The only reason that I care is that it came up one time and a bunch of us discussed it. The morons and imbeciles all agreed one way and one other person and I thought something else.

I'm playing "Quad" tomorrow and I think I'll get maybe half the cash to buy your booze. Unless he jacks the bet, which ain't too likely. Since I feel sorry for him I think I'll also play him "his fouls don't count". That should make it closer.

Dennis

[jazznpool]

The handicapped ball goes up now and it is still your shot, but if you pot the ball in any hole, including yours, your inning is over. The ball made in the side and the one owed for the foul are now spotted prior to the oppponent's shot and the game resumes. These factors must be considered during your shot selection of the aforementioned balls.

Martin




The scenario, since I am tired of seeing the same damn layout every day, is one that I have posted before and still have not received a well thought out and reasonable response. Meaning anything outside the box.

It is this: You are giving up 9-8 and have not made a ball yet. You also owe a ball for a foul. Your opponent has 7 balls and it's your shot with 8 balls on the table. In the course of running balls in your pocket, you inadvertently pocket a ball in the side pocket. You run the seven balls on the table and now you and your opponent must decide how to spot up the balls that need to be spotted. It is still your shot.

The 15th ball is in the side pocket, you need one for the 9-8 spot, and you owe one for a foul.

How would you think they would spot up? Please leave out official rules or common house rules and think about which balls should spot up and when, why or how. Use common sense and experience to make your call.

Please don't just give the usual, lazy, "I don't want to think too hard about it" poolplayer answer. Give a reason why you would put up the balls in the order or manner that you would. I already know what non-thinking , lazy poolplayers would do, please be different.

Dennis

[beatle]

after all the balls are gone, the balls owed from the nine to eight spot would get put up. then if you missed the others would all go up. if you made the spotted ball then the owed ball only goes up, after that ball is shot then the last one as that one only comes up after the end of the inning.,

[Cowboy Dennis]

The handicapped ball goes up now ,Martin


Would this be the ball for the 9-8?

[Cowboy Dennis]

after all the balls are gone, the balls owed from the nine to eight spot would get put up. then if you missed the others would all go up. if you made the spotted ball then the owed ball only goes up, after that ball is shot then the last one as that one only comes up after the end of the inning.,


But all of the balls are not gone, the 15th ball is in the side pocket. It needs to be put into play at some time. There is only one ball that needs to be put up for the 9-8 spot, not multiple balls. What if you didn't miss? Which balls or ball would be spotted next?

[jazznpool]

Yes. Another option is that since there are no more balls to make a legal shot, you'll have to take another foul. Now all 4 spot and its the opponents turn. What is the legal ruling?

Martin


Would this be the ball for the 9-8?

[Cowboy Dennis]

Yes. Another option is that since there are no more balls to make a legal shot, you'll have to take another foul. Now all 4 spot and its the opponents turn. What is the legal ruling?

Martin


So then you would not put up the 15th ball that is in the side pocket but you would have me spot a ball for the 9-8 spot?

[Cowboy Dennis]

Yes. Another option is that since there are no more balls to make a legal shot, you'll have to take another foul.
Martin


I guarantee you one thing, there will be a ball on the table to make a legal shot.

[beatle]

corrected post made easier to understand.


after all the balls are off the table, the ball owed from the nine to eight spot would get put up.
then if you missed, the others would all go up at once.,

if you made the spotted ball, then the owed ball only goes up,

after that ball is shot in, then spot the last one as that one being the one shot in the side pocket which only comes up after the end of the inning.,

[Cowboy Dennis]

corrected post made easier to understand.


after all the balls are off the table, the ball owed from the nine to eight spot would get put up.
then if you missed, the others would all go up at once.,

if you made the spotted ball, then the owed ball only goes up,

after that ball is shot in, then spot the last one as that one being the one shot in the side pocket which only comes up after the end of the inning.,


The 15th ball is in the side pocket. Are you saying that the ball for the 9-8 spot (which is not an owed ball by the way,it's part of the game), would be put up before the 15th ball? Why would you spot the 9-8 ball or the owed ball before the 15th ball is gone?

How could you possibly justify putting up the 9-8 ball or the owed ball before the 15th ball?

[Cowboy Dennis]

The handicapped ball goes up now and it is still your shot, but if you pot the ball in any hole, including yours, your inning is over.
Martin


So are you saying that even though I pocketed a ball in my hole my inning is over? How can that be if I still need two more balls? Why would my inning end after I pocketed one more ball?

[beatle]

because the ball shot in the side pocket is the ball that is specifically supposed to be put up after the inning is over. so in this case it is spotted after everything else is complete and you are entitled to keep shooting as your inning is intact.


but if you were playing me for money and shooting two would go up at once so the pocket would be blocked and then the last one so i would have a shot.

[Cowboy Dennis]

because the ball shot in the side pocket is the ball that is specifically supposed to be put up after the inning is over. so in this case it is spotted after everything else is complete and you are entitled to keep shooting as your inning is intact.


but if you were playing me for money and shooting two would go up at once so the pocket would be blocked and then the last one so i would have a shot.


beatle,

You need to make up your mind which way it should go and stick with it. It cannot be both ways.

My inning is not over until I miss or win. The question is which balls should be put up and when.

Dennis

[beatle]

sorry failure to communicate here so i will let it go.

[Cowboy Dennis]

sorry failure to communicate here so i will let it go.


That seems like a good idea.

[One pocket Smitty]

My thinking even if its wrong is after you pocket all the balls on the table, then bring all of the owed balls and the one made in the wrong pocket up at the same time and your still shooting.---Smitty

[lll]

9.2Any penalty balls owed by the shooter, or balls pocketed in a neutral pocket, are to be spotted at the end of the shooter’s inning. However, if a player runs off all the balls on the table without reaching a winning score, then all such balls are spotted immediately (all at once, not one ball at a time), and the shooter continues their inning. At no other time in One Pocket are balls spotted during any shooter’s ongoing inning.
9.3 In the event of a handicapped game with the combined winning ball count needed by the two players or teams totals greater than sixteen at the start of the game, then the player going to the longer count must spot the first ball or balls they score, immediately at the end of the first inning in which they score, as necessary to bring the combined winning ball count back down to sixteen, at which point the game continues in standard fashion
so 2 balls come up the one in the side pocket and the one owed. after you made those the ball for the 9-8 spot comes up .
before looking this up i would have thought all 3 came up at once like smitty

[NH Steve]

I think spotting up all three balls at once and continuing the inning is the way to go if you have three balls to put up. If there is going to be more than one ball spotting up, to spot the first ball by itself is way too much of an advantage to the shooter.

[vapros]

9.2 deals with all the balls owed by penalty or pocketed in a neutral pocket, indicating that two balls should be spotted after the table is cleared, and the shooter continues. It muddies the water with the phrase 'at no other time' which says the third ball cannot come up with the others.

9.3 amends 9.2 to deal with the third ball needed in this particular match, but specifies the end of the inning, and goes on to mention 'standard fashion' without saying what it means. Clarification is needed in the rules, but I doubt the shooter would ever have to give up the table before missing or getting the balls he needs. And the opponent is sure to be unhappy if the shooter gets to win the game by making a single ball on the spot.

I believe that 9.3 should be changed to handle these situations once and for all. It should simply say that all such balls, and beyond, are to be regarded as penalty balls, handled by 9.2. It does not take much imagination to see them as penalty balls. That's really what they are. :rolleyes:

[Cowboy Dennis]

Next January I'll just call this my "Annual Waste of Time" thread. But I'll keep looking for a fresh outlook from someone who wants to think:eek: about it.

[androd]

Next January I'll just call this my "Annual Waste of Time" thread. But I'll keep looking for a fresh outlook from someone who wants to think:eek: about it.

The shooter shouldn't be penalized because a ball went in the side. When the table is cleared the 15 ball should spot. If it's made the other two balls that are owed, (9/8 Ball is an owed ball, as is the foul) should be spotted together and the shooter allowed to shoot again, as he hasn't missed.
Rod.
PS, Before everyone starts, Dennis asked for an opinion, this is mine. I know the rules don't agree with this, but I think the rules are stupid.

[lll]

Next January I'll just call this my "Annual Waste of Time" thread. But I'll keep looking for a fresh outlook from someone who wants to think:eek: about it.
thinking about it heres what i think. see next post

[lll]

The shooter shouldn't be penalized because a ball went in the side. When the table is cleared the 15 ball should spot. If it's made the other two balls that are owed, (9/8 Ball is an owed ball, as is the foul) should be spotted together and the shooter allowed to shoot again, as he hasn't missed.
Rod.
PS, Before everyone starts, Dennis asked for an opinion, this is mine. I know the rules don't agree with this, but I think the rules are stupid.
i agree with Rod. (i dont know how to put 2 quotes in a post). all the balls from the rack are gone except the 15 went in the side pocket so that one comes up. when you shoot that one in now all the balls are gone but its still your turn at the table. the ball owed and the 9-8 spot ball get spotted and you keep shooting

[Tennessee Joe6]

My opinion: When all the balls are gone the the 9-8 ball should spot because the inning continues. If the shooter makes that ball, then the ball in the side pocket and the foul should be spotted and the shooter continues hi/her inning.

My reasoning is this: if there was not ball in the side pocket and no foul to spot---that is how the game would continue. The 9-8 ball would be spotted.

[jazznpool]

Dennis, you're venturing into an extreme area of the game, one that seldom, if ever, occurs. This stuff isn't that interesting to me. Where I play, there are more basic rule issues that tend to occur. During the monthly Hardtimes L.A. tournaments we play no more than 5 in the kitchen. The spotting of balls in that situation leads to some interesting lapses and discoveries!

Martin


So are you saying that even though I pocketed a ball in my hole my inning is over? How can that be if I still need two more balls? Why would my inning end after I pocketed one more ball?

[Cowboy Dennis]

The shooter shouldn't be penalized because a ball went in the side. When the table is cleared the 15 ball should spot.


Rod,

I agree with this part of your thinking. The 15th ball should definitely be put up after the other 14 are spoken for.

Dennis

[Cowboy Dennis]

During the monthly Hardtimes L.A. tournaments we play no more than 5 in the kitchen. Martin


Martin,

What does this mean?

Dennis

[NH Steve]

Martin,

What does this mean?

Dennis
It must be one of the "speed up" rules -- if a certain number of balls (it sounds like 5) get up in the kitchen, all five spot, or something like that. To speed up the game. I wonder if that kicks in in the very beginning of every game, or it only comes up if a certain time has elapsed or what...

[Cowboy Dennis]

It must be one of the "speed up" rules -- if a certain number of balls (it sounds like 5) get up in the kitchen, all five spot, or something like that. To speed up the game. I wonder if that kicks in in the very beginning of every game, or it only comes up if a certain time has elapsed or what...


That sounds kind of O.K. for a weekend tournament I guess. The Varners and Fuscos of the world would hate it I suppose.

[jazznpool]

No more than 4 balls inside the headstring. 5th ball (or more) closest to the headstring is spotted. If a player snoozes on the spotted ball, it does not spot during the inning, but at the end of it. This is a form of "Grady's Rules." It is meant to speed up play and prevent an uptable marathon.

Martin


Martin,

What does this mean?

Dennis

[treeMan]

I think you can't differentiate between the ball in the side, the ball owed because of the foul, or the ball owed because of the spot. In this case, and unfortunately for the shooter, there is no way to spin it to spot balls in some kind of order other than all at the same time.

It is simple and correct - all balls owed, no matter their origin, should spot at the same time imho.

tree

[Cowboy Dennis]

I think you can't differentiate between the ball in the side, the ball owed because of the foul, or the ball owed because of the spot. In this case, and unfortunately for the shooter, there is no way to spin it to spot balls in some kind of order other than all at the same time.

It is simple and correct - all balls owed, no matter their origin, should spot at the same time imho.

tree


Actually you can differentiate between THESE balls. The ball for the 9-8 is NOT an owed ball. It simply needs to be put up because there are not 16 balls on the table.

The ball in the side pocket is NOT an owed ball, it should be put up before any others. All 15 balls should be gone before any others are put on the spot.

The only "owed" ball is the one for the foul.

Dennis

[Cowboy Dennis]

No more than 4 balls inside the headstring. 5th ball (or more) closest to the headstring is spotted. If a player snoozes on the spotted ball, it does not spot during the inning, but at the end of it. This is a form of "Grady's Rules." It is meant to speed up play and prevent an uptable marathon.

Martin


This seems like a great idea to prevent a long, uptable game. I like it.

[NH Steve]

I think you can't differentiate between the ball in the side, the ball owed because of the foul, or the ball owed because of the spot. In this case, and unfortunately for the shooter, there is no way to spin it to spot balls in some kind of order other than all at the same time.

It is simple and correct - all balls owed, no matter their origin, should spot at the same time imho.

treeI agree with this. That is what the OnePocket.org rules intend, so if it is not clear, that is something we should amend.

[lll]

first of all i agree with rods thinking. 15 ball up first .if made next 2 together.
however if i wanted to make an argument for all 3 it would be this........ if the shooter missed on the last ball on the table then all 3 balls would get spotted at once .correct? so why should it be different if he clears all balls? this up for discussion only.
ill repeat i think rods reasoning is spot on,
the rules say in my interpretation 2 balls would get spotted (the 15 and the owed ball) and if they were made the 9-8 ball would be spotted. see post #19.
so dennis is it 1, 2, or 3 balls that get spotted?

[fred bentivegna]

No more than 4 balls inside the headstring. 5th ball (or more) closest to the headstring is spotted. If a player snoozes on the spotted ball, it does not spot during the inning, but at the end of it. This is a form of "Grady's Rules." It is meant to speed up play and prevent an uptable marathon.

Martin

Jazzman, dem's my trademarked rules. Grady was respectful enough to ask me if he could use a form of them in one of his tournaments and I obliged.

Beard

[lll]

now that you have a few days off tell us your thinking on this one

[Cowboy Dennis]

now that you have a few days off tell us your thinking on this one


Next January, I promise:) , but only if you don't quote the rules to me which I specifically requested that people not do.

[SJDinPHX]

Actually you can differentiate between THESE balls. The ball for the 9-8 is NOT an owed ball. It simply needs to be put up because there are not 16 balls on the table.

The ball in the side pocket is NOT an owed ball, it should be put up before any others. All 15 balls should be gone before any others are put on the spot.

The only "owed" ball is the one for the foul.

Dennis

DSTPBreath,

Nice wasting your few remaining brain cells, on something that may come up every third millenium.
Shouldn't you be searching your porn stash for football wagers ?..:confused: ;) :D

[jazznpool]

Hey no disrespect Freddy. I'll refer to them from now on as Freddy's Rules. I prefer playing this way, actually. There is more to think and strategize about and it enlivens what might otherwise become a cowardly uptable game.

Martin



Jazzman, dem's my trademarked rules. Grady was respectful enough to ask me if he could use a form of them in one of his tournaments and I obliged.

Beard

[SJDinPHX]

Hey no disrespect Freddy. I'll refer to them from now on as Freddy's Rules. I prefer playing this way, actually. There is more to think and strategize about and it enlivens what might otherwise become a boring, cowardly uptable game.

Martin

Careful Martin, you may touch a nerve or two there...But "cowardly" (and boring) is a very apt description of the way SOME people prefer to play the game of 1P. (think Varner, Fusco, AB, etc.)

But, when you encounter such guy's...they leave you little choice but to play the game "their" way...Unless of course, you just shoot their nuts off !...:D

PS..I added "boring" to your quote, with which I'm sure you will concur. But the bottom line is...ya gotta play to win !

[lll]

Next January, I promise:) , but only if you don't quote the rules to me which I specifically requested that people not do.
you know most here dont follow directions:p . we have mentally masturbated this one to death. lets get the final oohhh ahhh and here your take and bury this thread. just my humble opinion:D

[jazznpool]

I'm with you on that one SJD. You're almost forced into playing that style of game once it starts unless you can break out of it somehow. I had a guy stalling for time in a tournament not long ago with that appproach and I was able to win the game and tie the set with super aggressive play than I am normally not comfortable with.

Martin




Careful Martin, you may touch a nerve or two there...But "cowardly" (and boring) is a very apt description of the way SOME people prefer to play the game of 1P. (think Varner, Fusco, AB, etc.)

But, when you encounter such guy's...they leave you little choice but to play the game "their" way...Unless of course, you just shoot their nuts off !...:D

PS..I added "boring" to your quote, with which I'm sure you will concur. But the bottom line is...ya gotta play to win !

[Cowboy Dennis]

you know most here dont follow directions:p . we have mentally masturbated this one to death. lets get the final oohhh ahhh and here your take and bury this thread. just my humble opinion:D


Actually, the only person that actually did think about it was Rod. See you next January.

Dennis

[treeMan]

Actually you can differentiate between THESE balls. The ball for the 9-8 is NOT an owed ball. It simply needs to be put up because there are not 16 balls on the table.

The ball in the side pocket is NOT an owed ball, it should be put up before any others. All 15 balls should be gone before any others are put on the spot.

The only "owed" ball is the one for the foul.

Dennis

That sounds like semantics to me. How about we call them "balls that must be spotted", rather than owed balls? "Balls that must be spotted" should get spotted at the first chance: end of inning OR no more balls on the table.

but good luck if you get them spotted one at a time - even I can run a few with that drill :)

tree

[Cowboy Dennis]

That sounds like semantics to me. How about we call them "balls that must be spotted", rather than owed balls? "Balls that must be spotted" should get spotted at the first chance: end of inning OR no more balls on the table.

but good luck if you get them spotted one at a time - even I can run a few with that drill :)

tree


tree,

I'm not trying to change the world or any rules, I just asked people to think about it. As long as you responded I'd like to ask you something: You say it sounds like my position is "semantics". I called the balls what they were, you called them "balls that must be spotted" after first calling them "owed balls", that sounds like somebody wanting to place the balls in his category. That is semantics. The balls need to be spotted for different reasons, this to me dictates when they should be spotted.

I've never spotted a ball owed for a foul until my inning ended (and never will) or I made all of my game balls.

My inning is not over yet as I have not missed. I do believe that the 15th ball should be put up at this time (by itself) as I should not be spotting up any other balls before all 15 balls are accounted for. I really don't understand how anyone could dispute that.

Again, I don't wish to change the rules or the world. I really couldn't care less what anybodys rules are. Gambling rules are all that matter to me anyway and those don't mean much to me either as I don't gamble that much nowadays.

As the Duck pointed out, this only comes up once every third millenium and he should know, he's been there for the past three:) .

I just like to get a read on what everybody thinks about this every now & then. It's sometimes interesting and one day I may actually get someone to spend five minutes thinking about it before they post a reply or quote the rules.

Thanks for your response.

Dennis

[lll]

tree,

I'm not trying to change the world or any rules, I just asked people to think about it. As long as you responded I'd like to ask you something: You say it sounds like my position is "semantics". I called the balls what they were, you called them "balls that must be spotted" after first calling them "owed balls", that sounds like somebody wanting to place the balls in his category. That is semantics. The balls need to be spotted for different reasons, this to me dictates when they should be spotted.

I've never spotted a ball owed for a foul until my inning ended (and never will) or I made all of my game balls.

My inning is not over yet as I have not missed. I do believe that the 15th ball should be put up at this time (by itself) as I should not be spotting up any other balls before all 15 balls are accounted for. I really don't understand how anyone could dispute that.

Again, I don't wish to change the rules or the world. I really couldn't care less what anybodys rules are. Gambling rules are all that matter to me anyway and those don't mean much to me either as I don't gamble that much nowadays.

As the Duck pointed out, this only comes up once every third millenium and he should know, he's been there for the past three:) .

I just like to get a read on what everybody thinks about this every now & then. It's sometimes interesting and one day I may actually get someone to spend five minutes thinking about it before they post a reply or quote the rules.

Thanks for your response.

Dennis
dennis first of all i appreciate that you did not make us wait a year before telling us your thoughts. :) i agree the 15 should be spotted before any others since you have cleared the table of all balls before you should put up your oher balls. if you make the 15 the other 2 balls should be spotted . imho

[treeMan]

Dennis,

I tried to capture the essence of what these balls constitute, owed balls or balls that need to be spotted. To me, categorizing them in separate groups is using semantics to make them seem factually different, whereas they are still just balls that must be spotted.

In any case that's how I see it. Thanks for your responses too, I always appreciate your posts.

tree

p.s. now throw in a sleeper ball of your opponents in there and that will really open a can of worms!

[Cowboy Dennis]

p.s. now throw in a sleeper ball of your opponents in there and that will really open a can of worms!


Hey, no fair. Start your own thread if you want to ask ridiculous questions:) .

[vapros]

CD, I think you are a little out of line here. You noted that Rod was the only one who gave this thing any serious thought. I believe you were saying that his thinking was closest to your own. How does that make it best?

Can you recall helping to dust off other posters for a similar attitude? Don't blow us off for not falling into your line. You don't really want to be like ol' What's-his-name, do you? :eek: :confused:

[Cowboy Dennis]

CD, I think you are a little out of line here. You noted that Rod was the only one who gave this thing any serious thought. I believe you were saying that his thinking was closest to your own. How does that make it best?

Can you recall helping to dust off other posters for a similar attitude? Don't blow us off for not falling into your line. You don't really want to be like ol' What's-his-name, do you? :eek: :confused:


V-Man,

Like I originally posted, I was looking for anyone to give their reasons for their opinions. I'm not sure that anybody has done that yet. I don't recall right now that anyone has, and I don't feel like looking.

I do not care at all if anyone ever agrees with me, but I wish at least one person would give a reason why they think the way they do. Please tell me why I am wrong. I have given my reasons. My ass is hanging out there for all to see.

I also absolutely never expect more than one or two people, at most, ever to agree with me. That would make me normal.

I am not blowing anyone off for not agreeing with me, and I will not blow them off next year when I post the same question either. (this is the second time for this question).

P.S. If I ever became like "ol' what's his name" I would kill myself. Don't be confused, you may be giving this too much thought...or not enough:) .

Dennis

[vapros]

Good enough, but why can't all balls scheduled to come up be considered penalty balls and handled according to the written rules? If you play me 11 to eight, the extra balls certainly qualify as penalties for you to overcome. When the shooter clears the table, spot 'em all up and finish the game. Is the question here primarily about the one in the side pocket? Since the rules are not specific about it, logic requires that it be spotted with the others. An inning can't have more than one end, can it?

Be well.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Good enough, but why can't all balls scheduled to come up be considered penalty balls and handled according to the written rules? If you play me 11 to eight, the extra balls certainly qualify as penalties for you to overcome. When the shooter clears the table, spot 'em all up and finish the game. Is the question here primarily about the one in the side pocket? Since the rules are not specific about it, logic requires that it be spotted with the others. An inning can't have more than one end, can it?

Be well.


V-Man,

I certainly hope that you realize that I know that nobody will probably ever agree with me and that this is just an exercise in thinking and/or futility. Following that line of thought I will answer your queries, one at a time.

1. All balls scheduled to come up cannot be considered penalty balls because they are not penalty balls. They are a part of the game just as surely as if we were playing 8 to 8. If there were 18 balls on the table(to start) you would not call my 9th, 10th, and 11th balls "penalty balls", so you cannot do it here.

2. The question here is not primarily about the one in the side-pocket, actually it's clear to me that that ball should be put up alone before any others are spotted.

3. I'm not interested in any rules. I have asked people to think about why they would do what they would do and post it. Nobody has done both that I recall.

4. To you, logic requires one thing, to me it requires something else altogether.

5. Not knowing the rules of when an inning ends I would think that an inning ends when a player misses or wins the game. To my recollection those are the only times that an inning has ended for me. If I am forgetting something, I certainly hope that somebody will point it out to me.

6. Anybody can convince me that I'm wrong with a well thought out line of reasoning which I think I've offered and have not yet got in return.

Dennis

[lll]

Q: when would you spot a ball pocketed in a neutral pocket?
A: when you miss or all balls are off the table.
Q when would you spot an owed ball?
A: when you miss or all balls are off the table
Q: when would you spot balls that have to come up because of the spot?
A: when you miss or all balls are off the table.
thus all 3 should be spotted!!!!!
i can see the argument that until the 15 is pocketed in a pocket that counts "all 15 balls are not "off the table" in a way. so i could see the reasoning to spot the 15 alone and then spot the other balls after the 15 was made.
i do not agree the balls should come up one at a time since owed balls and balls needing spotting come up after all balls are off the table or you miss. i beleive you have satisfied the part that all balls are off the table.imho

[vapros]

Okay, what we have here is a failure to c'mmun'cate. Neither illegal nor politically incorrect. We don't agree on this, but then we are not required to agree, anyway. Be well. Over and out. :)

[androd]

Is the question here primarily about the one in the side pocket? Since the rules are not specific about it, logic requires that it be spotted with the others. An inning can't have more than one end, can it?

Be well.
The reason the 15 ball should be spotted alone is that the shooter hasn't missed and the 15 ball isn't an owed ball, but part of an ongoing inning.
After the 15 ball is spotted and shot, spot 1 ball for every coin by the shooters pocket.
Rod. <---this seems logical to me.
Be well

[SJDinPHX]

The reason the 15 ball should be spotted alone is that the shooter hasn't missed and the 15 ball isn't an owed ball, but part of an on going inning.
After the 15 ball is spotted and made, spot 1 ball for every coin by the shooters pocket.
Rod.

I think either a coin flip, arm wrestling, or a fat lip...should be part of the decision making process !! :rolleyes:

[lll]

I think either a coin flip, arm wrestling, or a fat lip...should be part of the decision making process !!
we can always count on you to make a constructive, educational comment:p :D :eek: :rolleyes: :)

[lll]

Q: when would you spot a ball pocketed in a neutral pocket?
A: when you miss or all balls are off the table.
Q when would you spot an owed ball?
A: when you miss or all balls are off the table
Q: when would you spot balls that have to come up because of the spot?
A: when you miss or all balls are off the table.
thus all 3 should be spotted!!!!!
i can see the argument that until the 15 is pocketed in a pocket that counts "all 15 balls are not "off the table" in a way. so i could see the reasoning to spot the 15 alone and then spot the other balls after the 15 was made.
i do not agree the balls should come up one at a time since owed balls and balls needing spotting come up after all balls are off the table or you miss. i beleive you have satisfied the part that all balls are off the table.imho
dennis please respond to this. thanks larry:)

[Cowboy Dennis]

dennis please respond to this. thanks larry:)


Larry,

I would but you answered all of your own questions. If I continue this thread people will start to think that I'm losing it, ala the Duck.

P.S. I think that at least two of your answers are incorrect. If you want to talk more about it, pm me.

Deenis

[jay helfert]

9.2Any penalty balls owed by the shooter, or balls pocketed in a neutral pocket, are to be spotted at the end of the shooter’s inning. However, if a player runs off all the balls on the table without reaching a winning score, then all such balls are spotted immediately (all at once, not one ball at a time), and the shooter continues their inning. At no other time in One Pocket are balls spotted during any shooter’s ongoing inning.
9.3 In the event of a handicapped game with the combined winning ball count needed by the two players or teams totals greater than sixteen at the start of the game, then the player going to the longer count must spot the first ball or balls they score, immediately at the end of the first inning in which they score, as necessary to bring the combined winning ball count back down to sixteen, at which point the game continues in standard fashion
so 2 balls come up the one in the side pocket and the one owed. after you made those the ball for the 9-8 spot comes up .
before looking this up i would have thought all 3 came up at once like smitty

This looks correct except I would add one thing. After you have spotted the two balls and competed your inning, the owed (or handicap) ball will spot up. You do not wait until the two balls are down. Thanks