Eddie Taylor vs. Bugs Rucker

[gulfportdoc]

Lately we've been hearing on this site what a great banker Bugs was. Of the guys that have seen both him and Eddie Taylor, who do you think was the greater? I can't imagine anyone ever beating Taylor's record of 57 (or was it 37?) straight banks without a miss! He's been generally regarded as the all-time greatest banker.

Doc

[OldHasBeen]

Lately we've been hearing on this site what a great banker Bugs was. Of the guys that have seen both him and Eddie Taylor, who do you think was the greater? I can't imagine anyone ever beating Taylor's record of 57 (or was it 37?) straight banks without a miss! He's been generally regarded as the all-time greatest banker.

Doc

I'D HAVE TO GO WITH EDDIE!

TY & GL

[hemicudas]

I'D HAVE TO GO WITH EDDIE!

TY & GL
Bugs shot an educational banks video at Jim's Rack & Cue in Shorewood, IL where I lived at the time. I had talked to Bugs many times before but that is the only time I mentioned the best. He told me that Eddie Taylor was the greatest banker ever and that Eddie had taught him how to bank. I don't think he was just being humble, I think he really meant it.

[titanic jerry]

All my life I heard about Eddie Taylor making 37 banks in a row. I do not mean to take anything away from Mosconi's 526 or even make a comparison, as they are two different games.

They are both pretty impressive records to sayb the least.

I have never heard how or when Eddie did it. Did he bank the 15th ball and re-rack banking one of the corner balls or did he make the 14th ball and bank it breaking up the rack to continue the run.

I saw Eddie Taylor play in San Francisco in 1961, I lost to Mosconi in an exhibition 150 - 13 in San Leandro, CA in 1962. Two legends----what a lucky person I have been.

Anyone have any details on that bank pool run?

At my age now 3 banks in a row is a big deal!!!!!!!


Titanic Jerry

[gulfportdoc]

All my life I heard about Eddie Taylor making 37 banks in a row. I do not mean to take anything away from Mosconi's 526 or even make a comparison, as they are two different games.

They are both pretty impressive records to sayb the least.

I have never heard how or when Eddie did it. Did he bank the 15th ball and re-rack banking one of the corner balls or did he make the 14th ball and bank it breaking up the rack to continue the run.


Jerry, I've seen an article on that. If I'm not mistaken it was Eddie explaining the sequence of how it was done. I can't recall the site source. If I remember correctly, it was in competition-- presumably 15 ball banks. He ran out a rack on his inning, then broke and ran several more. I'll have to do a Google search on it. If Jewett wasn't on vacation we could ask him. Anyone else know the actual story?

Doc

[NH Steve]

Jerry, I've seen an article on that. If I'm not mistaken it was Eddie explaining the sequence of how it was done. I can't recall the site source. If I remember correctly, it was in competition-- presumably 15 ball banks. He ran out a rack on his inning, then broke and ran several more. I'll have to do a Google search on it. If Jewett wasn't on vacation we could ask him. Anyone else know the actual story?

DocI think I have it somewhere -- maybe in Tom Shaw's Legends of the Road story. I'll post it if I can find it. I believe he was playing full rack banks for something like a few dollars a ball -- fairly small money -- when he ran out most of one rack, than ran a full rack of fifteen, then ran most of the next rack before missing. They must have been playing that the player that made the last ball broke the next rack.

One thing that is kind of neat about the One Pocket race-to-a-ball-count format that Hard Times used for their recent mini events (a race to 15 in that case) is that it means a player can achieve high runs. I guess Parica ran all fifteen twice and somebody else did once at their event.

Maybe that's a good idea for Banks too (not a new idea).

[gulfportdoc]

I think I have it somewhere -- maybe in Tom Shaw's Legends of the Road story. I'll post it if I can find it. I believe he was playing full rack banks for something like a few dollars a ball -- fairly small money -- when he ran out most of one rack, than ran a full rack of fifteen, then ran most of the next rack before missing. They must have been playing that the player that made the last ball broke the next rack.


By all means, post the source, Steve. I've tried to find it, but so far, no cigar. Driving me nuts! I even combed his 2 part interview with you, but the subject doesn't come up... :(

Doc

[piggybank04]

thats a good idea, Steve......when i play banks,i like to play 9 ball banks,with a race to 25.that way,the better player almost always wins......... :)

[vagabond]

It was nearly 40 years ago in Ashville, NC in a gambling game for fish heads.
Eddie banked 10 in the first game,15 in the next game and 12 in the third game.This is direct from horse`s mouth.
I have seen both. Eddie,no doubt,banks better than Bugs.
Vagabond

[fred bentivegna]

I have an interview on VHS tape --somewhere-- where Taylor describes personally what happened. I must go through a bunch of tapes to find it. Taylor and Bugs were 2 different eras. When Bugs became a champion Taylor was on the way down with cataract eyes. My personal opinion was Taylor was a shade better. Bugs' claim that he learned from Taylor was not true. Bugs was just being deferential to Taylor. A far as I know, they only played once and that was one-pocket in Wash. DC. Taylor used less english than Bugs. He also had a near-perfect stroke (he had a tiny slip-stroke, only 1 or 2 inches) that would give him the edge on longer shots, that's why I give him the nod. However, I seen Bugs give Artie Bodendorfer 10 to 6 at bank pool, for $500 a game and win! When he tried 9 to 5 Artie won. With Taylor out of the picture Bugs was near undefeated for 20 years ( Tony Fargo beat him in SC playing for $200 a game. Later, in Chicago for $500 a game Fargo was crushed.).
the Beard

[fred bentivegna]

I found the tape! Taylor was being interviewed by Grady Mathews. Present was Weenie Beenie, Corn Bread Red and George Rude. Taylor said he was playing a particular game whereby you had to bank all the balls off the table. They were playing for $2 a ball. On Taylor's shot there were 12 balls left on the table, which he banked. He broke them wide open, made one, which allowed him to shoot again. He banked off all 15. His opponent broke the next game, didnt make any and Taylor banked 10 more. This is pretty close to VAGABOND'S account.
the Beard

[gulfportdoc]

He also had a near-perfect stroke (he had a tiny slip-stroke, only 1 or 2 inches) that would give him the edge on longer shots, that's why I give him the nod.
Thanks for the info, Freddy. I'd be interested to hear the story from the taped interview, if you can find it. Did Taylor use a forward or backward slipstroke? In other words did he let the cue slide 1-2 inches as he swung forward to hit the CB, or did he let it slip at the end of his backstroke?

Thanks,

Doc

[fred bentivegna]

Taylor had the same type of slip stroke as Mosconi and Irving Crane. His backhand slipped backwards an inch or two before he brought the stick forward. It's a great stroke for straight-pool. Mosconi, Taylor and Crane all looked a lot alike in their stroke. For whatever reason the slip-stroke is basically passe'.
the Beard

[Grady]

Accu-stats has that tape. It's about 25 minutes long. Also Alfie Taylor put out a tape that's a couple of hours long, starring Eddie. I do not know how to obtain that.

[Grady]

I dug up my Eddie Taylor tape, produced and directed by Alfie Taylor. It's two hours and five minutes long. No phone number but address is:
1996 Scenic Publications, Inc., PO Box 4768, Aspen, Co., 81611. Good luck, Grady

[gulfportdoc]

Taylor had the same type of slip stroke as Mosconi and Irving Crane. His backhand slipped backwards an inch or two before he brought the stick forward. It's a great stroke for straight-pool. Mosconi, Taylor and Crane all looked a lot alike in their stroke. For whatever reason the slip-stroke is basically passe'.
the Beard
Funny-- I watched Mosconi play once in '62, and Crane several times later, but I never noticed their slip strokes. I probably wouldn't have noticed it in those days though.

Later I used a slipstroke in 3C billiards, patterned after Alan Gilbert's. It was a fairly slow backward slip. I think it helped because it caused a split second pause before the forward stroke into the CB. When I got back to pool however, it seemed to hurt my accuracy; so I had to re-train myself not to use it. I've certainly seen some great players who used one, though.

Doc

[fred bentivegna]

The most beautiful slip-stroke, in my opinion, was used by Alton "Baby-Face" Whitlow of Detroit. It was fast moving, with a lot of dips, and about 6 inches long -- not a good stroke to try to fool somebody with. I landed on him once when I was a kid, he tried stalling on me. I took one look at that stroke and knew right away that I was in over my head. Where normally I would play until I was broke, in this instance I only played a few more games before I packed it in. The longest slip was by the Rooster, Corn Bread Red. On those long, hard, money balls, Red would slip it back about a foot before he smoked the ball into the hole. I tried slipping for awhile, but I could only beat eggs with it.
the Beard

[OldHasBeen]

Cornbread had a hugh "Slip Stroke" as I remember. Also. Gordon Guy (the best One Pocket player here in St. Louis for years) said he learned his stroke from Rags in D.C.

TY & GL

Ps. Sorry Freddie, I just noticed your posting about Red.

[SactownTom]

Gary Speath (Cincinnati Bank and 1Pkt player 80s and 90s) and his dad (Joey Speath, Johnson City tournament player) both had slip strokes.

I had been told that I had incorporated a slip stroke into some of my longer shots when I was playing a lot of 14.1 in the 70s and 80s. I never thought much about it and whatever the reasons I was using it, faded away and I've not used it for a long time.

[TulsaJohnny]

Well, I am new to this site and I'm fairly young. I have met Eddie Taylor but have not had occasion to speak to him about this. I just discovered this site yesterday so please forgive me for posting so many items without being a regular.
I have to preface this by saying that I believe that Taylor's 37 banks must be the record for the game of banks as he played it. However the only record higher than that was supposedly made by Frank Taberski. In Billiards Magazine ( I own a bunch of old copies from the early 1900s) there is a transcript of Taberski's interview he made on the radio speaking about his career highlights. In this article he states that he made (and I'm going by memory on this) 42 banks in a row. HOWEVER, he did not say ANYTHING ELSE about what if any game he was playing. He did a lot of exhibition tours and it is my belief that if he really did this it was just done in setting up exhibition shots. This 42 shot record was not refuted by Billiards Magazine at the time and, as historian Charlie Ursitti will tell you, this magazine had an excellent track record of using historical data. It had several columns and many guest columnists that discussed records, etc. Although I don't believe this "record" was made at bank pool per se, I have to mention it in case anyone out there knows Frank Taberski Jr. and can ask him about this. Bank pool was RARELY mentioned in the 17 years of the mag that I own and I did not read of a single match or tourney back then. Because of this I don't believe he made 42 banks in any match and it is inconceivable that it was in his specialty of straights. Can anyone ask Eddie Taylor if he has heard about this record????? Anyone know Taberski Jr.? As previously stated I believe the game record of 37 stands. I think taylor could have rained hundreds in a row if he was setting up exhibition shots as Taberski must have done! I scoured through the 6 years of the mag I don't own at the library of congress last year and still saw no further mention of bank records or matches -Johnny