Chess and One Pocket

[NH Steve]

One Pocket has often been described as like chess on a pool table, and indeed chess does seem to be a popular pastime among some One Pocket players -- Efren for example:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/747085/EfrenandCoreywebsized.jpg
Efren and Corey take a break from pool to play a little chess at the DCC last January. And I swear I overheard Corey hit Efren up for a spot of one rook as they headed for a place to set up the board :)

When I was at Hard Times Sacramento for their Summer Jamboree I got this photo of Santos also enjoying a Chess break from the pool action:
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-6/747085/Santosplayingchess.jpg

It's been a while since I played much chess, but it certainly is a game I have enjoyed in the past, and if I had more free time might take up again. IMO, the strategy aspect of chess goes way beyond the strategy of One Pocket, but none-the-less One Pocket does share the head-to-head combat of move and countermove that characterize chess much more than most pool games.

Does chess sharpen your One pocket game?
Does One Pocket sharpen your chess game?
How many of you One Pocket fans also do play chess?

[Pelican]

I think that anything that sharpens your mind is a benefit for any sport/game that requires thought. Chess and one pocket both require a good amount of thought process. The difference being that once the mind has analyzed the table and determined what is the best avenue of offense or defense the game of pool requires more physical skill to complete the process than simply moving a chess piece on the board. Maybe that is why I need to go back to playing chess instead of pool :(

[SactownTom]

Strategy, Patience and endurance are skills required to play both Chess and One Pocket. I can understand why both are played by pool players.

I played Chess for a long time and still enjoy a computer game now and then, I just hate losing to the computer so often.

Backgammon is also a popular pool player game at Hard Times.

[r0ttie1]

I think that anything that sharpens your mind is a benefit for any sport/game that requires thought. Chess and one pocket both require a good amount of thought process. The difference being that once the mind has analyzed the table and determined what is the best avenue of offense or defense the game of pool requires more physical skill to complete the process than simply moving a chess piece on the board. Maybe that is why I need to go back to playing chess instead of pool :(
Hehehe... I hear that :)

[Cowboy Dennis]

I thought I'd revive a good post about the similarities between chess & one-pocket. This puzzle was in the paper a few days ago and I didn't figure it out. It always helps to put the pieces on the board and I didn't do that.

White to move and force a draw. What would you do? This is the famous Reti's puzzle. Don't cheat by going to Google:mad: :D .

2015

[lll]

i cheated so i know the move:o
but what i would say in chess the beginning of the match is somewhat orchestrated by the masters
what i mean is for the first many move there are "openings" and responses that have famous chess players names attached
all the the masters know if you do this ill do that
its not till the middle and end game does the creativity ,imagination come in
in 1p every break is different and the imagination and creativity starts from the second shot of the match
jmho

pps a soft hijack attempt
who do you think answered the break the best of all the players who played this great game???
would you put the answer to the break as one of the most important shots of the game???(i would)

[Cowboy Dennis]

i cheated so i know the move:o
but what i would say in chess the beginning of the match is somewhat orchestrated by the masters
what i mean is for the first many move there are "openings" and responses that have famous chess players names attached
all the the masters know if you do this ill do that
its not till the middle and end game does the creativity ,imagination come in
in 1p every break is different and the imagination and creativity starts from the second shot of the match
jmho

pps a soft hijack attempt
who do you think answered the break the best of all the players who played this great game???
would you put the answer to the break as one of the most important shots of the game???(i would)
Jeez Larry, for all of your seeming differences with "you-know-who", neither one of you capitalize your "I's". Just sayin':eek: .

The response to the break in one-pocket is critical, it can set the tone for the game, for either player. If struck well, it's not even noticed, if poorly, it could sell out the game. Getting out of the break can be a 10 shot ordeal with monsters waiting for any misstep.

Dennis

[lll]

Jeez Larry, for all of your seeming differences with "you-know-who", neither one of you capitalize your "I's". Just sayin':eek: .


Dennis
honestly dennis:rolleyes: im not sure who "you know who" is:confused:
you can pm me with the answer

[SJDinPHX]

i cheated so i know the move:o
but what i would say in chess the beginning of the match is somewhat orchestrated by the masters
what i mean is for the first many move there are "openings" and responses that have famous chess players names attached
all the the masters know if you do this ill do that
its not till the middle and end game does the creativity ,imagination come in
in 1p every break is different and the imagination and creativity starts from the second shot of the match
jmho

pps a soft hijack attempt
who do you think answered the break the best of all the players who played this great game???
would you put the answer to the break as one of the most important shots of the game???(i would)

I agree Larry...It is probably the most important single shot in most games. Let me say this, being as one of our illustrious members is AWOL..I can let out the brag a little..;)

Back in the day, when we were both playing near our best...RA and I, matched up with Weenie Beanie, (hard to believe, but I put up 7/8ths. of the cash)...The game was, the Bean gets 9/7,...break about...The game also required that I break for RA every time it was his break...Also, when Beanie broke, I had to shoot the next shot...No coaching allowed...RA played all the rest of the game...Bean was his own partner...He won about 1 game out of 20, for serious, escalating $$$.

He wasn't aware, that my "get out of the break", was as at least as good, as RA's...Ronnie tried to give me 9/7 one time, and he got all the breaks...It was the biggest score I ever made off him...He burned up 3 different stake horses...:p {And that was before I had really learned many of the finer points of one pocket...:cool:)

PS..Larry, if you don't know who Dennis is refering too...well, shame on you...its your favorite poster...Sun-e-1 !..:D

[vapros]

Getting back to Steve's original questions here - I believe that the only real similarity is that both games require one to think and analyze the playing field. One pocket does not allow the planning and execution of a campaign of several moves because the field changes with every stroke, and sometimes it changes dramatically. No such surprises in chess.

This is not to say that many players are not attracted to both games, but it's because they enjoy the mental challenges of both. Beyond that, I don't think the games are at all alike. JMHO

I've been resting up for the last two weeks, as a guy put eight big screws in my lower back on 12-6, and it has slowed me down some. I don't know when I will get to play again, but I have been cleared to talk about it as much as I want. :eek:

[Cowboy Dennis]

I agree Larry...It is probably the most important single shot in most games. Let me say this, being as one of our illustrious members is AWOL..I can let out the brag a little..;)



Come one, come all & join the BHOF:D

2017

[SJDinPHX]

Getting back to Steve's original questions here - I believe that the only real similarity is that both games require one to think and analyze the playing field. One pocket does not allow the planning and execution of a campaign of several moves because the field changes with every stroke, and sometimes it changes dramatically. No such surprises in chess.

This is not to say that many players are not attracted to both games, but it's because they enjoy the mental challenges of both. Beyond that, I don't think the games are at all alike. JMHO

I've been resting up for the last two weeks, as a guy put eight big screws in my lower back on 12-6, and it has slowed me down some. I don't know when I will get to play again, but I have been cleared to talk about it as much as I want. :eek:

Hope you're feeling OK Bill, I know that has to be a slow healing process...Kathy went through a similar thing 10 years ago...Triple disc fusion C-4-5 and 6, with screws and stuff (doubt if she could have gotten through an airport scanner these days)...Its no fun, but you're a tough ol' bird...Happy Holidays to ya..:)

[SJDinPHX]

Come one, come all & join the BHOF:D

2017

Dear Braggart Breath,

There is no way I could overcome "you know who", in a poll, (or voting situation)...If I bragged, continually, uncontested,...for the next millenium..:rolleyes:

El Duck <---does this mean I am at least nominated..:D

PS..Trying to entice him back to defend his crown...Its just no challenge trading barbs with a "demented apparition", and a "retarded snowblower operator"..:eek:

[Skin]

I played Chess for a long time and still enjoy a computer game now and then, I just hate losing to the computer so often.


Reminds me of this popular saying during the early days of the computer: "My computer slaughtered me at chess. But it was no match at kick boxing." :D

I think one-pocket is more like Chinese checkers than chess anyway.

Skin

[Cowboy Dennis]

One Pocket has often been described as like chess on a pool table, and indeed chess does seem to be a popular pastime among some One Pocket players -- Efren for example:

IMO, the strategy aspect of chess goes way beyond the strategy of One Pocket, but none-the-less One Pocket does share the head-to-head combat of move and counter move that characterize chess much more than most pool games.

Does chess sharpen your One pocket game?Yes


Does One Pocket sharpen your chess game?They both teach you the value of patience & thinking deeply. Analyzing positions & layouts gets your mind into the game and keeps it there.


How many of you One Pocket fans also do play chess? At least one:D


It's probably more accurate to say that chess is to checkers as one-pocket is to 9-Ball.

Playing one-pocket you can see what you will leave your opponent and how he will respond most times.

In chess, you can also see the leave but you don't know how he'll respond most times, unless you play each other a lot.

Playing a total stranger who is your equal, neither game is predictable. There are as many styles in chess as in one-pocket. Some play learned and rehearsed openings from books. I prefer the Ruy Lopez when doing this. Some lead with P-K4 and go from there, no matter what. Some mix it up. Here are several types of chess players:

1. Conservative & take no chances.

2. Flashy & daring.

3. Scared & nitty.

4. Not scared but foolish.

5. Risk-taking when needed, safe at other times.

6. The gunfighter, he goes toe to toe and move to move with you until one of you drops.

7. Plays hard to a certain point then gives up.

8. Better than me. Not too hard, I'm average but love the game. Been playing it since I was 10 or so.

I have a book of Bobby Fischers best games and you wouldn't believe how he had good players beat 15 moves before the game ended. He'd force them to bend to his will and with no other options, he'd win. He was that great against some of the best players ever. He said that his favorite moment in a game was not checkmate but the moment that his opponent saw he was going to lose and gave up. It's every bit a war just like one-pocket. After a 4 hour match with an equal you will be tired, drained, worn out, beaten down if you lost, ecstatic if you won.

Dennis

[Cowboy Dennis]

El Duck <---does this mean I am at least nominated..:D
Just don't forget the oft-repeated warning:Heavy is the head that wears the crown:cool:

[SJDinPHX]

Just don't forget the oft-repeated warning:Heavy is the head that wears the crown:cool:

I prefer; "To the victor, go the spoils"...Or, as Jerry Lee Lewis said, when confronted... "You expect me to check the I.D. on every barefoot, runaway hillbilly I come acrosss...she looked at least 16 to me"...:p :p :p

[Artie Bodendorfer]

Jeez Larry, for all of your seeming differences with "you-know-who", neither one of you capitalize your "I's". Just sayin':eek: .

The response to the break in one-pocket is critical, it can set the tone for the game, for either player. If struck well, it's not even noticed, if poorly, it could sell out the game. Getting out of the break can be a 10 shot ordeal with monsters waiting for any misstep.

Dennis
I liked giving up the breack to the best players. For balls. Ronnie loved the breack. He didnt think any player would give it too him.

But I offered it too him and he loved the game. He just couldnt get a backer. And I had race track Phil with me and he had 50 thousand dollaers cash on him. But Ronnie couldnt get a backer.

I mean he reay like it. But I had no problem giving up the breack too a champion. I dont no ove any other player that would give up the breack too the top 3 players. They all wanted the breack.

If you no howe too realy play the game the breack shouldnt scare you. But if a player doesnt no howe too play. Then players like Ronnie Bugs Jersey Red .

Will destroy the other player because they will run out so many times you will get dizzie. And just too play a regular game off one pocket the players getting the breack will win.

Ehat they are figuring is that they will get the first shot and that is worth more then two balls too them. But is you can nuturalize them getting the first shot then it will be a different game.

And if the great player breacks the balls good then it can get real tough. So my advice is if you dont realy no the game dont give up the breack. It will also were you down. Because you will always start out on deffense.

I won because off my knowledge and I had great control off the cue ball and the object ball.

And you only get that from playing a lot and if you are not in stroke and cant make a ball. Then nothing will save you or help you.

[gulfportdoc]

I've been resting up for the last two weeks, as a guy put eight big screws in my lower back on 12-6, and it has slowed me down some. I don't know when I will get to play again, but I have been cleared to talk about it as much as I want. :eek:
Vapros, here's hoping you have a speedy recovery. BTW, I hope the guy who put 8 screws in your back was a surgeon!

Bad jokes aside, make sure you do all the follow up physical therapy and exercises. Natural movement is the key to proper healing. Hang in there!

Doc

[twister]

It's probably more accurate to say that chess is to checkers as one-pocket is to 9-Ball.


I'm not sure chess really improves your one pocket or vice-versa, but this analogy speaks to the main idea here: that one pocket is the 'chess' of pool games. I wouldn't be surprised to see that some one pocket players are good chess players, sometimes just because they're fierce competitors and as we all know, one pocket players are just naturally more intelligent than 9-ball players. :D

Seriously though, one pocket does require a good sense of spatial reasoning; the ability to quickly analyze the whole table and see how a specific ball might be key to the match, although it doesn't look like it, is often the difference between winning and losing. In terms of spatial reasoning skills and seeing many moves ahead, there is another game that goes way beyond chess in this: Go. Here's a link to it on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_%28game%29

There are many, many mathematicians who are passionate Go players, and their skill in the game is often considered to be linked to their amazing level of spatial reasoning and the ability to 'see ahead.' Go also allows plenty of opportunity for the application of theorems and mathematical analysis during a game, which of course keeps it interesting to mathematicians. The fact that it's a game or a puzzle also makes it attractive to mathematicians, as the fact that chess is a game to compete at probably makes it attractive to those who like to compete (and gamble) on just about anything. I wonder if anyone has ever seen a Go board at DCC? Probably only a matter of time.

[sunnyone]

mr. vapros ... happy healing!

a guy i know -- he knows less about one-pocket than i do, and i know almost nada -- has a theory that ties in golf (golf with clubs and funny clothes) with one-pocket.

since i know almost nothing about golf, i thought ... perfect! two ignorant yokels may as well advance an equation to this board of wisdom.

the bf thinks that the second shot in golf, on one of those holes where you're supposed to make it in five hits, is similar to the response shot after the one-pocket break.

he says that second shot in golf, on that kind of hole, often determines the degree of success.

i'm not claiming that he is right ... how smart can he be in not yet mouthing the 'm' word to me?

golfing is my life,

sunny

[lll]

Getting back to Steve's original questions here - I believe that the only real similarity is that both games require one to think and analyze the playing field. One pocket does not allow the planning and execution of a campaign of several moves because the field changes with every stroke, and sometimes it changes dramatically. No such surprises in chess.

This is not to say that many players are not attracted to both games, but it's because they enjoy the mental challenges of both. Beyond that, I don't think the games are at all alike. JMHO

I've been resting up for the last two weeks, as a guy put eight big screws in my lower back on 12-6, and it has slowed me down some. I don't know when I will get to play again, but I have been cleared to talk about it as much as I want. :eek:
gee vapros sorry to here you got screwed for christmas:eek: :D
seriously ,bill wish you a merry christmas ,happy and HEALTHY new year.

[gulfportdoc]

the bf thinks that the second shot in golf, on one of those holes where you're supposed to make it in five hits, is similar to the response shot after the one-pocket break.

he says that second shot in golf, on that kind of hole, often determines the degree of success.
Your friend made a good comparison re the second shot. The big difference between the two games is that in golf, you have no direct connection with what you want your opponent(s) to do, nor he over you. It's a completely different process to achieve the score, with each player playing independently of each other.

Doc