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  • Learning to play Bank pool question

    Howdy All;

    Been playin for a while now, my Banking has always been sort of hap-hazard
    at best. Have invested in the books and DVDs of The Beard and some other
    Banking related educational materials from others. Each claims to be the better
    of the batch. Each also ... well y'all know the routine.

    I tend to be more of a visual learner but the books make for a solid form of
    reinforcement and handier to tote around for me. That and a lot of practice.

    So, I guess what I want to ask is what was the AHH-HA moment when y'all
    realized it all came together and the puzzle pieces fell into place.

    Thanks for your thoughts and surmises.

    hank
    Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

  • #2
    Originally posted by hankh View Post
    Howdy All;

    Been playin for a while now, my Banking has always been sort of hap-hazard
    at best. Have invested in the books and DVDs of The Beard and some other
    Banking related educational materials from others. Each claims to be the better
    of the batch. Each also ... well y'all know the routine.

    I tend to be more of a visual learner but the books make for a solid form of
    reinforcement and handier to tote around for me. That and a lot of practice.

    So, I guess what I want to ask is what was the AHH-HA moment when y'all
    realized it all came together and the puzzle pieces fell into place.

    Thanks for your thoughts and surmises.

    hank
    When i'm banking best, for me its when i'm focused on more precise hits on the object ball. I tend to get lazy just shooting at the angle or a spot. But when i really focus on hitting it more exact i make more shots. If you notice the top players all bank good and thats because they just hit everything with more precision. JMO John

    Comment


    • #3
      If you are having trouble seeing the angle then first try aiming straight at the object ball, and this might pop the angle out for you, then aim at to contact the ob on that angle.
      This worked for me when I was having trouble picking up the angle. But usually you just see the angle once the banks start clicking for you, if not try this little tip.
      Hope this helps! Whitey
      Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 03-04-2019, 01:23 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        crabbcatjohn & Dennis "Whitey" Young, Howdy;

        Thanks fellas for your responses. Whitey, you mentioned " you just see the
        angle once the banks start clicking for you " this is basically what I'm asking is
        what was it that made the connection for you that turned on the light over your
        head (like in a cartoon), and things started 'clicking'?

        Thanks for taking the time to reply fellas.

        hank
        Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

        Comment


        • #5
          I would have to say recognition of the different banks. The beard called them hangers. Once you see them it makes the game easier. You still have to execute them but recognition is the key.

          To excel at the game you really have to have both the pocketing of the bank and the ability to control whitey at the same time. Brumback does exactly that.

          If you get the chance to watch spaeth, bugs, or Busty play bank on dvd you will see what I mean. Have fun, banking is an art form of pool.

          B
          Execution of the shot, some days I have it some days I don't...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by hankh View Post
            crabbcatjohn & Dennis "Whitey" Young, Howdy;

            Thanks fellas for your responses. Whitey, you mentioned " you just see the
            angle once the banks start clicking for you " this is basically what I'm asking is
            what was it that made the connection for you that turned on the light over your
            head (like in a cartoon), and things started 'clicking'?

            Thanks for taking the time to reply fellas.

            hank
            Hank, for me I could always bank, from day one. Played banks everyday, I mean it was fun, especially on my table that did not reverse coming off the 2nd rail on cross side/corner banks, or double straight backs or double back banks, they were every bit as easy as a single rail bank cross side/corner, or single full table banks. Today in banks you do not see hardly any of these banks, for they are very difficult with todays cushions.

            But I stop playing for decades, and when I started up again, I never really practiced banking, but joining OP I started hitting a few, and could not see them, so I used that trick of aiming directly at the ob and that seemed to make the angle pop out, and I started making some banks again.

            But to answer your question, I feel I had a back ground in banks, this plus actually practicing some banks, and letting go of my thoughts and relying on my instincts, then I started seeing the banks again. I still go back to aiming first directly at the ob if I feel I am not picking up the angle, and sure enough I was off, and sometimes I double check by using the diamonds. But you will have to practice just banks, 1 hr. a day is enough to make a champion! Practice should bring about seeing the banks, but you will have to do it everyday, because it is not like when we were young and pick up stuff easily and retain it.

            I think english on the cb can tremendously effect the shot also. Also the cue tip hardness has a lot of effect on banking! Know your banks, know the english, know your cue tip! There are so many different cushions out there, wow. Cushions today are highly sensitive to everything for they tend to reverse a lot, or they can throw a lot. They grab the ball more, create more spin, and add spin the more rails you play the bank, that is why the diamond system is different today than yesteryear. Speed of the shot effects the rebound tremendously on these cushions today.

            The old GC's banked well, unless the cushions played soft. Whitey
            Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 03-06-2019, 05:37 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              wgcp, Howdy;

              Originally posted by wgcp View Post
              I would have to say recognition of the different banks. The beard called them hangers. Once you see them it makes the game easier. You still have to execute them but recognition is the key.

              To excel at the game you really have to have both the pocketing of the bank and the ability to control whitey at the same time. Brumback does exactly that.

              If you get the chance to watch spaeth, bugs, or Busty play bank on dvd you will see what I mean. Have fun, banking is an art form of pool.

              B
              Thanks for your thoughts, truly. I do realize that recognition is a big step in
              the process and repetition (wash, rinse, repeat), go hand-in-hand to accomplishing
              that part of the learning curve. Right now that curve is looking like a 60* angle.
              Which is better then a 90* angle but I know it will flatten out more with practice.

              Again, thanks for your thoughts and time to respond.

              hank
              Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

              Comment


              • #8
                Whitey, Howdy;

                Originally posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
                Hank, for me I could always bank, from day one. Played banks everyday, I mean it was fun, especially on my table that did not reverse coming off the 2nd rail on cross side/corner banks, or double straight backs or double back banks, they were every bit as easy as a single rail bank cross side/corner, or single full table banks. Today in banks you do not see hardly any of these banks, for they are very difficult with todays cushions.

                But I stop playing for decades, and when I started up again, I never really practiced banking, but joining OP I started hitting a few, and could not see them, so I used that trick of aiming directly at the ob and that seemed to make the angle pop out, and I started making some banks again.

                But to answer your question, I feel I had a back ground in banks, this plus actually practicing some banks, and letting go of my thoughts and relying on my instincts, then I started seeing the banks again. I still go back to aiming first directly at the ob if I feel I am not picking up the angle, and sure enough I was off, and sometimes I double check by using the diamonds. But you will have to practice just banks, 1 hr. a day is enough to make a champion! Practice should bring about seeing the banks, but you will have to do it everyday, because it is not like when we were young and pick up stuff easily and retain it.

                I think english on the cb can tremendously effect the shot also. Also the cue tip hardness has a lot of effect on banking! Know your banks, know the english, know your cue tip! There are so many different cushions out there, wow. Cushions today are highly sensitive to everything for they tend to reverse a lot, or they can throw a lot. They grab the ball more, create more spin, and add spin the more rails you play the bank, that is why the diamond system is different today than yesteryear. Speed of the shot effects the rebound tremendously on these cushions today.

                The old GC's banked well, unless the cushions played soft. Whitey
                Like you I've had a few times when there was no pool for several years then
                spent some time to regain some of the skills and feel again.
                As I mentioned in the post before this one, I need to go through the process
                of recognition and work on the basics. Repetition is the key to muscle memory,
                and for the brain (what's left of it), to recognize the shots/angles. There ain't
                no easy way to learn it just put in the time and wash, rinse & repeat.

                Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience.
                Greatly appreciated it is.

                hank
                Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hank,
                  If you haven't already done so, go down the prior bank forum threads to 'Learning to Bank by Bugs'. I felt this was very well done, and like you, in re-learning banks, I use some of his methods for it made me realize some things.
                  One important aspect to be aware of, is that on many of his banks you'll notice he uses the same speed. This is important because speed has a great effect upon the ob coming off the rail on most all rails. So I would suggest trying using the same speed similar to Bugs, on his various shots, or a speed that you are comfortable with.

                  After you get somewhat comfortable with banking free shots, such as Bugs video, another thing I believe when banking, is to play shape. Believe it or not it will really help your banks. For it gives a purpose and an added focus to the bank.

                  I was watching a local bar table player hitting the balls around, and you could tell his focus was on just making the ball, many beginning or novice players do this, cinch the shot. I knew he had more in him than that, so I talked to him and told him to always have a meaning for your shot, like know what shape you want on the next ball. He did that, an instantly he pocketed balls better!
                  Purpose & Focus! Whitey
                  Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 03-07-2019, 10:58 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Reading the Beard or watching the Bugs tape might help give you some ideas, but nothing works better than hitting a million practice shots. Here's a practice routine that I've used over and over, even after 40 years of playing bank pool. Set up a shot, any shot. Forget about the cue ball (for now). Hit that shot 10 times hard with center cue ball and figure out what you have to do to make it. Next, hit the same shot 10 times at pocket speed with center cue ball and figure out what you have to do to make it. Next, same shot 10 times with a medium speed stun shot.

                    Next, same shot hard with center running English; then pocket speed with center running English; then stun it with center running English.

                    Next, same shot hard with center hold up English; then pocket speed with center holdup English; then stun it with center hold up English. 10 times each. Try to pay attention to the effect the English has on the object ball, and the cue ball. Do not underestimate the effectiveness of center spin bank shots, especially at speed.

                    Next, same shot hard with top running English; then pocket speed with top running English; then stun it with top running English.

                    Next, same shot hard with low running English; then pocket speed with low running English; then stun it with low running English.

                    Next, same shot hard with top hold up English; then soft with top hold up English; then stun it with top hold up English.

                    Next, same shot hard with low holdup English; then pocket speed with low holdup English; then stun it with low holdup English.

                    If you're bored by now, then banks may not be your game.

                    If doing this routine got you excited because you found yourself on a journey of mystery and adventure, then pick another shot and do it all again. Repeat until sated for the day, and come back tomorrow and do it again.

                    Have fun!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Theoretically, bank shots are kind of twice as long as the equivalent straight in shots -- that makes them twice as tough in simple terms of the execution accuracy necessary to successful score your bank shots -- in a way. So all aspects of your fundamentals and improved accuracy pay off in banks. This to me is the big reason why more than any other discipline at DCC, those "non-bank-playing" players often run deep in the banks division, in my opinion. They simply execute so damn well, that extra distance in overall shot is less of a problem for them than it is for others -- even players that play banks all the time!

                      But then there is the other factor of course, the knowledge of how rebounds are influenced by english, speed and cut angle -- because of the cushion or cushions along the way. Regular banks players have these factors deep in their DNA from years of experience. However, in competition like DCC, those inexperienced players with great execution make up for their lack of knowledge a good bit by focusing on shots that don't require quite such deep feel adjustments. But I digress.

                      For me, I bank best when I shorten my bridge a little (to better control my english, or lack thereof), and I also try to put a little extra into my pre-shot routine to give myself the best chance to pocket my shot.

                      I often aim using my cue stick to help me accurately visualize exactly the first rail approach angle I think will be successful for my shot -- measuring the cut angle on the object ball essentially, even more so than picking a target spot on the rail -- although that cue stick aiming method gives the spot on the rail too -- it is not actually my primary focus -- that is primarily on locking in on my initial cut angle on the object ball, and letting the stroke speed and english take care of the rest.

                      I wish I could get more people to play up here -- I love the game but there is just no Banks tradition at all up here in NH.
                      "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
                      -- Strawberry Brooks

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tobermory & NH Steve, Howdy;

                        Thank you both for the drill and aiming tip. Starting to get a few suggestions to
                        work which is good. I'll have to take each one and work with it and then decide
                        which one 'works for me'.

                        Whitey, I have the Bugs video saved and have watched it a few times already.
                        Part of my "other stuff' I mentioned earlier. But, thanks for referencing it. It's
                        good to have reminders as I keep forgetting, ahhh, give me a minute ..... ahh,
                        I'll get back to ya on whatever it was ... ,

                        hank
                        Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hankh View Post
                          Tobermory & NH Steve, Howdy;

                          Thank you both for the drill and aiming tip. Starting to get a few suggestions to
                          work which is good. I'll have to take each one and work with it and then decide
                          which one 'works for me'.

                          Whitey, I have the Bugs video saved and have watched it a few times already.
                          Part of my "other stuff' I mentioned earlier. But, thanks for referencing it. It's
                          good to have reminders as I keep forgetting, ahhh, give me a minute ..... ahh,
                          I'll get back to ya on whatever it was ... ,

                          hank
                          Do you have Brumback's DVD's? I mean he is the greatest living banker in my opinion, and he shares his secrets in his DVD's -- how can you go wrong?? He sometimes pops in here too
                          "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
                          -- Strawberry Brooks

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            NH Steve, Howdy;

                            No I don't have them ...yet, on the shoppin' list.
                            Have seen a few of the Y-T short videos. If he was any more laid-back he'd be snoozin'. ( chuckle )

                            hank
                            Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hank, I reviewed your posts once again, and I see you put in the practice and done your homework viewing videos and books.
                              Therefore we might need to delve further. I was wondering when your banking, is there a consistent pattern whereas the bank either goes long or short, or is it inconsistent whereas either long or short can happen"?

                              Hopefully there is a consistent pattern, for this can be fixed, by you have to eventually realize that your brain is telling you; "that this is the correct angle", but eventually and at some point you have to realize it is the wrong angle, and thus you have to override it. It is like changing a bad habit. Tell it no, that can not be the angle. Seemingly simple, but that is why players miss a shot the same way all the time, they think this is where they need to hit it. The older you are the harder it is to get out of this mind set.

                              Now if the bank is inconsistently going long and short, then you will have to use aiming methods. Aiming methods, such as in your case whereas you have studied books and DVD's, can befuddle you for there are so many variations, just to much going on in your head when your down on the shot!

                              I gave you a new one, that probably not in a book or DVD, aim straight at the ob and see if that does not pop the angle out for you. The other is to keep it simple, by just dividing the angle in half by using the diamonds. I keep it simple, I try not to over think it. The thinking part is before your down on the shot, never once you are down on the shot.

                              I am saying all of this, for in instructing this one pupil, he had so many aiming methods, and so much going on in his head, he just could not simply lay down on the shot, and I think this might be going on with you.

                              To answer your question, what makes the light go off and you see the angle? I think after you go through the progression of the above mentioned then the light comes on. If not, keep persevering. I hope it happens! For when it does, you go whew, that sure is nice. Its a freedom!

                              Another thing that is helpful, is always rack and break the balls when practicing banks, this gives that, 'purpose and focus'. Never, just throw the balls out, that is for goofing off, or used as a calming effect, or just to practice a particular shot.

                              This seems quite long, but when we have such little info. from you then it creates so much more speculations! Tell us what going on in your head before and when your down on the shot, ok! Mentally and being physically sound plays a huge role in pocketing balls. I've struggled with this for some time, and it makes for inconsistency. Fred Whalen states; "Top Billiards takes a sound mind and healthy body. Whitey
                              Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 03-09-2019, 01:44 PM.

                              Comment

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