Frozen Ball Banks!

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-bN7x4W-8Ti1kS3gTczjXB8jMHgDM4-h/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16mW8Etzy3FXVzlxMPRC8FbPNsEHAgFcS/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZELqp5JZ-wGjZSwGMNcAGCUmfglFH7-f/view?usp=drivesdk
Start from the top on down.
I believe the middle video most accurately shows the angle I am stroking this shot on. Although the others are also stroked on this exact same angle, it appears not so.

On another thread, it came up about the power needed to bank a ball that is frozen. So I did a couple of frozen ball banks.
The OB is positioned a little less than a 1/2 diamond from the corner pocket. The CB is on a direct line from the ob to the center of the cross corner pocket.
I use extreme high center ball with a level follow through. You can not hold back, you have to go for it.
I believe the ob compresses the cushion just enough and this coupled with the speed of the cb it avoids the kiss.
I through in an extra cross side bank. The pressure was on for the Easter Dinner was being called within 10 min. First tries almost, thank goodness. My daughter; "goes you are pretty good at these banks". I had to laugh, for some of my shots I have threaded took a few to many takes. It was not easy to convince her in the first place, that I could do these takes in 10 min., but I nailed it!

Double click to enlarge then hit play, and a couple are in slow motion. Have a good time trying it, I mean it looks easy, and you do have a little angle to work with, well good luck and Happy Easter! Let me know how you did! Whitey

 

[lll]

whitey
i first set up the bank with the object ball at the first diamond thinking that was the shot...its early in the AM and not much coffee yet.....:heh
it wasnt that difficult and i did not have to hit it too hard
then i remembered (the coffee was starting to work....) that the object ball was about a half a diamond from the corner so my placement was alittle higher than yours
first attempt soft i got a double kiss
second try with pace i made it ....
the cut is towards the foot rail but the pace stiffens it
yes i agree its probably the compression of the rail that changes the rebound angle
i wanted to hit it with inside (my intuition was talking to me) but i remembered you just used follow (maybe the little bit of draw put on the object ball also helps to shorten it ) and made it with just follow ..
nice bank
thanks for the videos

 

[NH Steve]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-bN7x4W-8Ti1kS3gTczjXB8jMHgDM4-h/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16mW8Etzy3FXVzlxMPRC8FbPNsEHAgFcS/view?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZELqp5JZ-wGjZSwGMNcAGCUmfglFH7-f/view?usp=drivesdk
Start from the top on down.
I believe the middle video most accurately shows the angle I am stroking this shot on. Although the others are also stroked on this exact same angle, it appears not so.

On another thread, it came up about the power needed to bank a ball that is frozen. So I did a couple of frozen ball banks.
The OB is positioned a little less than a 1/2 diamond from the corner pocket. The CB is on a direct line from the ob to the center of the cross corner pocket.
I use extreme high center ball with a level follow through. You can not hold back, you have to go for it.
I believe the ob compresses the cushion just enough and this coupled with the speed of the cb it avoids the kiss.
I through in an extra cross side bank. The pressure was on for the Easter Dinner was being called within 10 min. First tries almost, thank goodness. My daughter; "goes you are pretty good at these banks". I had to laugh, for some of my shots I have threaded took a few to many takes. It was not easy to convince her in the first place, that I could do these takes in 10 min., but I nailed it!

Double click to enlarge then hit play, and a couple are in slow motion. Have a good time trying it, I mean it looks easy, and you do have a little angle to work with, well good luck and Happy Easter! Let me know how you did! Whitey

Fantastic!! Yes -- in fact I believe Taylor was known for even worse looking bank/kiss angles than these. Not that of course he was the only one who could make them. I'm just saying he was especially known for making this sort of fringe/close to a kiss bank.

Another one, which I cannot take the time to diagram at the moment, but I think I can describe, is cue ball in the kitchen near the side rail, and an object ball close to frozen at the 2nd from the bottom diamond on the other side rail, and he banked it across corner without a kiss. It looks impossible!

 

[hankh]

Whitey, Howdy;

Nice shot! Did a stop to see how you hit the OB, appears to be a 1/4 ball hit.
(middle link), as Freddy would describe it. Think I'll try this later today when
I go for practice.
Thanks,

hank

 

[lll]

Whitey, Howdy;

Nice shot! Did a stop to see how you hit the OB, appears to be a 1/4 ball hit.
(middle link), as Freddy would describe it. Think I'll try this later today when
I go for practice.
Thanks,

hank

hank
try it with the object ball on the first diamond to see/feel the difference in the hit

 

[Kybanks]

Fantastic!! Yes -- in fact I believe Taylor was known for even worse looking bank/kiss angles than these. Not that of course he was the only one who could make them. I'm just saying he was especially known for making this sort of fringe/close to a kiss bank.

Another one, which I cannot take the time to diagram at the moment, but I think I can describe, is cue ball in the kitchen near the side rail, and an object ball close to frozen at the 2nd from the bottom diamond on the other side rail, and he banked it across corner without a kiss. It looks impossible!

Nick Varner showed me the cross corner you are describing, the unbelievable part is Nick said he held the bank without crossing it. And yes it looks like it will never go.

 

[NH Steve]

Nick Varner showed me the cross corner you are describing, the unbelievable part is Nick said he held the bank without crossing it. And yes it looks like it will never go.

Yes -- exactly -- he was holding up that bank without a kiss!!

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Whitey, Howdy;

Nice shot! Did a stop to see how you hit the OB, appears to be a 1/4 ball hit.
(middle link), as Freddy would describe it. Think I'll try this later today when
I go for practice.
Thanks,

hank

Hank, thanks for trying the shot. I think lll had a good idea for your 7 footer by trying it off the first diamond.
But the hit is much heavier than a 1/4 ball hit. The way I have this shot set up, I then shoot it with the outside edge of my cue lined up with the edge of the object ball. This is more than a 1/2 ball hit.

I also did the stop motion on the middle link, and the initial reaction is that the ob goes to the left while the cb is going to the right, and as the ob is coming back off the rail it barely clears the cb.

Steve, Yes, as you pointed out that the shot can be set up tougher and still go, and I have done it working with less angle than I set up. This set up gives the members a good starting point for trying the shot!

Let me clarify the above, it is easier to make this shot when it is set up harder in the side pocket. For the side pocket is a way larger opening when coming from straight across vs. a corner pocket coming in from that same angle. Plus the end cushion if contacted makes if even harder to make it in the corner pocket. I have come close to and rattled it with the ob set an 1" or so closer to the corner pocket, but as of yet have not made it.

I also suspect the type of cushion would greatly effect this shot. Whitey

 

[hankh]

Whitye, Howdy;

Went an looked at it again, your' correct, of course, more of a 1/2 ball hit. I also
noticed that you are starting with the CB about 1 diamond from the near corner pocket.
I was starting with CB just outside of the pocket. Note to self; need to pay better
attention to detail. I'll try it again tomorrow before the 9-Ball tourney. Also, lll's
suggestion of placing the OB nearer the 1st. diamond.

Thanks as always,

hank

 

[NH Steve]

Hank, thanks for trying the shot. I think lll had a good idea for your 7 footer by trying it off the first diamond.
But the hit is much heavier than a 1/4 ball hit. The way I have this shot set up, I then shoot it with the outside edge of my cue lined up with the edge of the object ball. This is more than a 1/2 ball hit.

I also did the stop motion on the middle link, and the initial reaction is that the ob goes to the left while the cb is going to the right, and as the ob is coming back off the rail it barely clears the cb.

Steve, Yes, as you pointed out that the shot can be set up tougher and still go, and I have done it working with less angle than I set up. This set up gives the members a good starting point for trying the shot!

Let me clarify the above, it is easier to make this shot when it is set up harder in the side pocket. For the side pocket is a way larger opening when coming from straight across vs. a corner pocket coming in from that same angle. Plus the end cushion if contacted makes if even harder to make it in the corner pocket. I have come close to and rattled it with the ob set an 1" or so closer to the corner pocket, but as of yet have not made it.

I also suspect the type of cushion would greatly effect this shot. Whitey

Yes -- you can forget about it with the Kleber cushions

(at the more difficult set-ups anyway)

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuOLaU5pwpM

Here is the frozen ball shot into the side pocket. Bob is using either center low or a tip of natural english. This is of course opposite of what I used which was high.

But, I played in L.A. not known for banks at all, unlike Eddie Taylor growing up in the south where banks was huge. And being self taught then this is how I did these banks.

Using Eddie's technique I was able to hit the point on the side pocket. My cushions do not readily apply reverse on to the ob nor does the object ball bury itself into the cushions like other cushions and especially todays cushions. Thus making it a harder of a bank as compared to the cushions Bob is doing the shot on. But I'll work on it some more.

I now redid the frozen ball bank into the corner, and made it with the object ball 2" closer to the corner. So using draw really helps to make it. Whitey

 

[Johnny J. Willis]

great info on shot

 

[hankh]

Whitey, Howdy;

Hank, thanks for trying the shot. I think lll had a good idea for your 7 footer by trying it off the first diamond.
But the hit is much heavier than a 1/4 ball hit. The way I have this shot set up, I then shoot it with the outside edge of my cue lined up with the edge of the object ball. This is more than a 1/2 ball hit.

I also did the stop motion on the middle link, and the initial reaction is that the ob goes to the left while the cb is going to the right, and as the ob is coming back off the rail it barely clears the cb.

Steve, Yes, as you pointed out that the shot can be set up tougher and still go, and I have done it working with less angle than I set up. This set up gives the members a good starting point for trying the shot!

Let me clarify the above, it is easier to make this shot when it is set up harder in the side pocket. For the side pocket is a way larger opening when coming from straight across vs. a corner pocket coming in from that same angle. Plus the end cushion if contacted makes if even harder to make it in the corner pocket. I have come close to and rattled it with the ob set an 1" or so closer to the corner pocket, but as of yet have not made it.

I also suspect the type of cushion would greatly effect this shot. Whitey

What you mentioned in your 1st. paragraph, along with Larry's suggestion
and the Fuller 1/2 ball hit was how I hit that shot today.
When I first looked at it, it was like I'd been there before. I HAD! it was the
shot I'd practiced that the both of you had suggested I attempt. Boy did it sit
a few folks down when it went right in :heh, :heh .
Between the Banking and the Kicking that goes along with it it's going to be
tougher for them to whup me now.

Thanks for the suggestion and thoughts.

hank

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p38EEyhKi0A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Hn0C4zgRw

Here is an additional way to do the frozen ball banks provided by mr3cushion. He is stroking it @ 7 o'clock with a short crisp stroke using moderate speed. To get an idea of the speed the cb will carry to head cushion and contact the side rail.
Bill had explained this shot to me but I was unable to do it, so he made a video showing the stroke and speed. After viewing the videos I now am able to do it. Note; the short follow through. So it is hit below center with a little inside english, and hitting 50% of the ob.
One video has the shot lined up as I did it, and the other video he moves the cue ball over, which makes it more challenging.

Thanks, Bill for providing another alternative way of making these banks, for our members knowledge! Beautiful stroke by the way! Whitey

for further info on how this shot is made then go to 'café member'!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k3bd7MeYTo&feature=youtu.be
Bill had forgot that he also did this bank with the cue ball parallel with the object ball, and thus now just posted. This represents the hardest of his 3 examples of this shot. He used the same exact stroke and still hitting the ob approx. 50%. Chalk is on 1st diamond, ob is half diamond. Great shot, thanks Bill.