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Twist Cross Corner OP Bank!

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  • Twist Cross Corner OP Bank!

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/2yxQ1KG4FLL4FaDt8 Click on video to get sound & click on box to enlarge.

    Notice I am not using below center which adds more twist. If I was to use below center then I could not accomplish getting the cb to the other side of the stack. Staying really relaxed is what gives the cb the action.
    I wanted to give a good representation on stroking the cb, so that members can clearly see how to stroke it, because this can be a very troubling shot to get that much twist. If your having trouble then go to trying stroking it similar but with below center, it is easier.
    I believe the center of the 3 ball clears the pocket point by about an inch, for those that think I am coming off the point, or rounded part of the rail, I am not!

    Enjoy and good luck trying it. More twist back banks to come. I hope this helpful for those that struggle with this type of bank! Whitey
    Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 10-28-2019, 05:33 PM.

  • #2
    Whitey, Howdy;

    Gonna give that a try tomorrow.

    hank
    Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

    Comment


    • #3
      whitey
      with the balls that straight in alignment and so close to the rail
      i find it hard to"turn" the ball that much
      nice shot....
      larry

      Comment


      • #4
        conventional twist bank!

        https://photos.app.goo.gl/3Q8YoUi6bA62mMUH7 Click on video for sound & click on box to enlarge.
        This video is intended to demonstrate the stroke to get maximum twist. I got a lot of twist on the shot! Hopefully this will help members to work up to doing the previous video shot, if they are having trouble with it. The balls are on the wear line 3/4" off the rail.

        My last video represented doing a twist bank using follow, since that is what was needed for a legit OP shot. I reviewed some legionary bank pool player's videos, and they all used below center or center ball with little or some reverse english on somewhat similar shots to get the twist. Therefore I believe my technique of following in behind the stack is unique. I believe some believe the shot is not possible so I wanted to demonstrate that it is possible.
        Thanks, Hank & Cooler for the comments, I appreciate it! Whitey

        Comment


        • #5
          Whitey, Howdy;

          Just wondering how much the distance factors into this.
          Yours being what(?), 5' across and the bar table I shoot
          on being close to 3.5'. Total difference is about 3' (going
          back and forth. I may need to aim further to the outside.

          hank
          Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by hankh View Post
            Whitey, Howdy;

            Just wondering how much the distance factors into this.
            Yours being what(?), 5' across and the bar table I shoot
            on being close to 3.5'. Total difference is about 3' (going
            back and forth. I may need to aim further to the outside.

            hank
            Hank, yes I am aware of this. You would have to have the balls farther off the rail and further back to attempt to make it equal. I have much more working room than you would have on a 7 footer, therefore much easier of a shot on my table.
            I just posted another video with the balls further back, and using a conventional below center stroke. This might work for you to work up to the original shot.

            Hank, with all your banking videos and books, would you look to see if anyone plays this shot with above center, as I did in the original video, thanks! Whitey

            Comment


            • #7
              Whitey, Howdy;

              Are you takin' a dig at me when you said; " with all your banking videos and
              books ".
              Just trying to make up for lost time ...

              I'll look through them and get back to ya also let ya know what I find on my
              almost-a table.

              hank
              Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

              Comment


              • #8
                Whitey, Howdy;

                Originally posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
                Hank, yes I am aware of this. You would have to have the balls farther off the rail and further back to attempt to make it equal. I have much more working room than you would have on a 7 footer, therefore much easier of a shot on my table.
                I just posted another video with the balls further back, and using a conventional below center stroke. This might work for you to work up to the original shot.

                Hank, with all your banking videos and books, would you look to see if anyone plays this shot with above center, as I did in the original video, thanks! Whitey
                Played around with this shot for the better part of an hour. Started with both
                balls about 1/2" off of end rail as you had. OB was even with center diamond
                and CB was at near diamond. Results, ... not so good. Moved the set-up
                closer to me and still not so good results. Moved OB half-way back to center
                diamond (Always at ~1/2" off rail), still not much happenin'

                Moved set-up out to a chalk width and all results were still about the same.
                Adjusted cue tip to where I was aiming near 1/4 ball from Right edge of OB
                and cue tip 1 tip to Left of Center ball on CB. Sank it a few times (3 or 4),
                but not consistently or with confidence. Will need to visit this again on
                Thursday.

                Stay Safe out there, watch out for the wee Hob-goblins and such.

                hank
                Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hank, that is way cool! From an instructional video you were able to pull off the shot! That is why I put it up, so members can work on it. Thanks for trying the shot, and doing it!
                  For me it seems if I get the right speed and stroke then I can really get that Ob to twist, and it appears I demonstrated it well. Whitey

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow, that is a super cool shot, thank you!! No, I've always heard you get more transfer with a stun type of stroke. Follow blows my mind for sure!! And it seemed like with both of those shots you were not anywhere close to a kiss -- both ways the cue ball move out of they with room to spare... very nice!!
                    "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
                    -- Strawberry Brooks

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Whitey, Howdy;

                      Originally posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
                      Hank, that is way cool! From an instructional video you were able to pull off the shot! That is why I put it up, so members can work on it. Thanks for trying the shot, and doing it!
                      For me it seems if I get the right speed and stroke then I can really get that Ob to twist, and it appears I demonstrated it well. Whitey
                      I think most of the problem that I was having was adapting the shot to the
                      table size difference. On Thursday I'll try some more and let ya know.

                      hank
                      Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        whitey
                        disregard my text to you yesterday
                        this morning i went to the table and played around with the shot
                        i put the cue ball at the first diamond and the object ball at 1 1/2 diamond
                        an inch or so from the rail
                        the teaching point of the shot to me is your slightly downward stroke
                        it makes the cue ball sort of stun off the object ball before the spin takes effect
                        (i dont know why or if thats true its just how it seemed to me )
                        which allows you to beat the kiss
                        maybe its the little bit of masse from the downward stroke that changes the approach angle just enough.????
                        with a rolling cue ball at contact the kiss is hard to beat or you cant get enough twist
                        nice shot and i dont recall seeing someone shoot it and emphasizing the downward stroke
                        fwiw
                        with the downward stroke the cue ball clears the area of a kiss first
                        with a rolling cue ball they collide
                        thanks for posting that bank
                        and explaining how to hit it
                        larry

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          https://photos.app.goo.gl/KXXSqakCFWRWWPrs6 click on video for sound & box to enlarge.

                          https://photos.app.goo.gl/QuDDNRaDh8NABdpo8
                          On this twist bank I angled down on the cb using 1/2 tip of reverse english above center. the 1/2 tip of reverse is less than when the ob and cb are straighter inline. Also you will notice my aiming point is different than in the other video, for I am using the right side of the cue to edge of 3. This is because the reverse english pushes the cb slightly, even at that short distance.

                          Thanks to Hank, Cooler, and a special thanks to the aficionado of banks Steve, for their comments and joying in. And thanks to others that may want to add their expertise to these twist back banks.

                          The reason these video come to light is because I play around with another cb and ob while the set of balls are warming up by the wall heater. It was 12 degrees last night!

                          For those just tuning in there are videos on post 1 & 4 also. Whitey
                          Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 10-30-2019, 01:35 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Whitey, Howdy;

                            Tried these again today, pretty much the same results. Buuuut, my Rookieness
                            in these matters also plays into it. Need to experiment some more. There's a
                            sweet spot for me to get these, just need to find it then push it's limits.

                            hank
                            Striving for a less complicated life since 1949 ...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              https://photos.app.goo.gl/3zeBx8xzrKjwktiL8 Click on video & box to get sound and enlarge.

                              The 3 ball is off the 1st diamond, but on a 9 footer you would put it @ approx. 3/4 of a diamond, the cue ball is obsolutely straight on and the same 2-3/4" off the rail w/ 1/3 of the balls within the point line.

                              I worked on this shot extensively yesterday with no luck, very hard to get out of the kiss. I did do a masse' draw to get out of the kiss, and this of course is a beautiful shot! But, conventional wisdom on these twist backs states to use below center or add just a half tip of reverse, and legendary bank players even state not to use a lot of tips of reverse. But center or a half tip of reverse would never work on this shot, for the cb has no where to go.

                              As you notice I am using a good 2 tips of reverse english, and coming down on the cb slightly. It really twisted for as you notice the 3 contacted the side rail plenty up from the pocket. This is the trick to get out of the kiss, get that twist, and creating an angle that otherwise is not there, which lets the cb go somewhere!

                              Enjoy trying this shot! Don't know if I'd ever try it in a match, its that tough, and I see why Orcollo past on it! Whitey

                              Trying to stay ahead of Hank!

                              By the way, that was the most enjoyable commentary for a match I have ever heard, thanks John H.
                              Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 11-01-2019, 12:18 PM.

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