"PiggyBanks" vs. E. Strickland 2012 D.C.C.

[Cowboy Dennis]

Earl broke and made two balls. He then banked the 7 ball cross-side. It's still his shot. What would you do?

 

[usblues]

Cross the 8.....

Cross the 8.....

....down table and leave the CB on the top rail.Basically playing safe as I dont like any of the shots available of which there are about 4.A fun shot would be to play the 5 2 rails with lots of right english but you leave too much.Cheers,B

 

[fred bentivegna]

....down table and leave the CB on the top rail.Basically playing safe as I dont like any of the shots available of which there are about 4.A fun shot would be to play the 5 2 rails with lots of right english but you leave too much.Cheers,B

And what do you do with the one ball? That safe is not good. The 5 ball 2 or 3 rails cross side is probably what I would play, but I just happen to know that shot pretty well. I would be no more than a 6 or 7 to 5 underdog to make it.
With the balls all open like that, any miss might cost the whole game. To play conservatively and let the opponent be the one to shoot at a bad percentage shot, I would just roll the 1 ball up by the back corner pocket, blocking the cross corner on the 8 ball. Leaving him with only a bad percentage full cut cross side, bad PC twice cross corner or bad PC straight back.

Beard

 

[usblues]

I ......

I ......

....figured the CB would be close to the end rail and close to the center of it and the angle wouldnt be there to shoot the 1.That being said I like your safe better.Its funny with 5-6 balls all open and cant stiffen a one of them very easily.....the 5 ball is a crowd pleaser,too bad its not the last ball so it would behoove one to shoot it,cheers,Jack

 

[gulfportdoc]

I can't tell if he can cross the 8 ball straight back without a kiss, and float the CB over to the head rail, preferably by the corner pocket near the 1 ball. Otherwise, Beard's safety looks real good.

I don't know if Earl plays many safeties. If not, he probably fired the 8 straight back. Incidentally Fred-- the tables play so short down here that the 3 ball can be banked straight back without english. Hit it wide, and it'll bend right around.

Doc

 

[fred bentivegna]

....figured the CB would be close to the end rail and close to the center of it and the angle wouldnt be there to shoot the 1.That being said I like your safe better.Its funny with 5-6 balls all open and cant stiffen a one of them very easily.....the 5 ball is a crowd pleaser,too bad its not the last ball so it would behoove one to shoot it,cheers,Jack

Even if the 1 ball was unplayable, you would end up losing the move, Jack, when Piggy would just shoot the 1 uptable and bring the cue ball back to the end rail.

Beard

 

[fred bentivegna]

I can't tell if he can cross the 8 ball straight back without a kiss, and float the CB over to the head rail, preferably by the corner pocket near the 1 ball. Otherwise, Beard's safety looks real good.

I don't know if Earl plays many safeties. If not, he probably fired the 8 straight back. Incidentally Fred-- the tables play so short down here that the 3 ball can be banked straight back without english. Hit it wide, and it'll bend right around.

Doc

So far, good Doctor, you have been the only guy really interested in the why's and wherefore's of shot selection -- as per your comments and questions on that Shane 1pkt thread.
I dont like to burn up ink and waste my time trying to defend a shot selection against all other shot selections. To try and determine what to do on one particular, certain shot is a worthless endeavor. Exact shots come up every thousand years. Situations, however, come up all the time.
I try to teach -- as I was taught -- situational one pocket. Stuff that enables you to think thru every predicament.
That's why, because there are exceptions to every rule, there may be a quantitatively better option than mine for that exact shot but I try and present a working concept to that particular type situation that will serve you faithfully many, many times over.

If my pool ego wasnt so set in stone I might take offense at the comments some of my options get, especially in the bank forum. The fact that some of the best players in the world ask me for advice, and Piggy Banks and Jet Johnson call me "The Master," notwithstanding, it is a little discouraging to post on the forum and not be taken seriously enough.

You see I especially like to make an unorthodox comment, because if the shot is so obvious what do you need me for? And rather than going to pieces, because it might not make sense at first light, I am awaiting someone to use some reason and ask themselves questions like, "Well, the Beard is supposed to know the game, so why would he suggest doing something that appears to be risky or unusual?" "I guess he aint senile, so there must be something more to it." Yes, more important than a particular shot is the concept and motives behind it. So far you have been the only one that took that line of thought.

Beard

Remember, it aint my loss, I already know this shit.

 

[John Brumback]

You could cross the 8 and leave the cball down behind the one.That wouldn't ba a bad shot but I would playing postion to runout by shooting the 5 twice cross side.For me, this shot is about 70% make.Stun the cball with a half of tip of right,med.speed.Cball goes left and hits that 3ball.Earl might even know this shot. John B.

PS: Fred,I read your stuff and I hope you don't think I argue with ya.I don't think I do and I try not to.Like you said this aint exactness though.You and I have a different style that both work,IMO.You like short smart shots and I like 9fters jacked up off the end rail,:lol Cheer up Fred,Most people like reading and hearing your ideas and theroys..myself included.Good day Mr. Beard.

 

[usblues]

I can....

I can....

......dig it Freddie regarding the 1 and other situations and concepts that I am not aware of.You be the master as they say,cheers,Jack PS.Good to see you back Doc.....

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

A fun shot would be to play the 5 2 rails with lots of right english but you leave too much.Cheers,B

Leave too much? Earl don't care about leaves. He whacked the 5 two-rails cross-side.



He left himself here:

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Most people like reading and hearing your ideas and theroys..myself included.Good day Mr. Beard.

Dear Catfish Breath,

Since nobody else has given you very many ideas & theroys to consider, I will:

Idea & Theroy #1...Shooting a cross-side bank with inside english that doesn't NEED to be hit with inside english does not make the shot easier.

Idea & Theroy #2... Ponder this theory the next time you're down at the ole fishin' hole swinging on the tire.

Cowboy "can't make pockets bigger than they are" Dennis

 

[fred bentivegna]

You could cross the 8 and leave the cball down behind the one.That wouldn't ba a bad shot but I would playing postion to runout by shooting the 5 twice cross side.For me, this shot is about 70% make.Stun the cball with a half of tip of right,med.speed.Cball goes left and hits that 3ball.Earl might even know this shot. John B.

PS: Fred,I read your stuff and I hope you don't think I argue with ya.I don't think I do and I try not to.Like you said this aint exactness though.You and I have a different style that both work,IMO.You like short smart shots and I like 9fters jacked up off the end rail,:lol Cheer up Fred,Most people like reading and hearing your ideas and theroys..myself included.Good day Mr. Beard.

Glad to hear that John Boy. For a minute there I thought you had spent too much time with Billy Cardone. He loves to give me a hard time.

Beard

 

[John Brumback]

Dear Catfish Breath,

Since nobody else has given you very many ideas & theroys to consider, I will:

Idea & Theroy #1...Shooting a cross-side bank with inside english that doesn't NEED to be hit with inside english does not make the shot easier.

Idea & Theroy #2... Ponder this theory the next time you're down at the ole fishin' hole swinging on the tire.

Cowboy "can't make pockets bigger than they are" Dennis

Dear Blah Blah Breath,

What in the hell are you talkin about? Is you just bored up there in gang land? Please put down the beers for awhile and TRY to make some sense,next time.
John is right Brumback!!!!

PS: thought for sure I sent you ( free of charge of course)a "how to bank" dvd! Put down the beer or have a beer but go watch the damn dvd at least once,would ya?:lol It's raining here again,and I might have all day.
Good day Mr.D.

 

[John Brumback]

Glad to hear that John Boy. For a minute there I thought you had spent too much time with Billy Cardone. He loves to give me a hard time.

Beard

Not a problem El Beardo.Wonder what happened to Billy I.?Did you run him off? JK. I kinda liked hearing you two go back and forth, same as with you and you know who:lol Ya know the guy that thinks he can bank but says how bankpool is niche game or somethin or nother John the trouble maker B.:lol

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Dear Blah Blah Breath,

What in the hell are you talkin about? Is you just bored up there in gang land? Please put down the beers for awhile and TRY to make some sense,next time.
John is right Brumback!!!!

PS: thought for sure I sent you ( free of charge of course)a "how to bank" dvd! Put down the beer or have a beer but go watch the damn dvd at least once,would ya?:lol It's raining here again,and I might have all day.
Good day Mr.D.

Dearest Catfish Breath,

It's raining here too and I figured you had some so I gave you a little aggravation for your day.

I'm drinking Maxwell House right now, would it make a difference if I wrote the same thing while I drank coffee?

RBL

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

PS: thought for sure I sent you ( free of charge of course)a "how to bank" dvd! Put down the beer or have a beer but go watch the damn dvd at least once,would ya?

I did watch it but had trouble getting past the 1st shot. The cross-side where you advise the secret is to not hit with draw at all but to use center-right. I have a question CFB: How does the cueball get to here on the shot if you don't use any draw? Center-right would make the cueball either go forward or parallel to the rail not come back away from it. No?





Cowboy "nothing to do today" Dennis

 

[John Brumback]

I did watch it but had trouble getting past the 1st shot. The cross-side where you advise the secret is to not hit with draw at all but to use center-right. I have a question CFB: How does the cueball get to here on the shot if you don't use any draw? Center-right would make the cueball either go forward or parallel to the rail not come back away from it. No?

View attachment 6117

View attachment 6118

Cowboy "nothing to do today" Dennis

It's not really draw.It's just the stun effect and bounce back,dummy.I can make it and have my cball go straight through the shot too! So could you if you weren't so stubbern and had a decent stroke! well and not use draw:lol Hurry up too!,I might go a fishin.John B.

PS:cheap ass Great value coffee here.100% colombian my hind in:frus Wife won't buy me the good stuff

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

It's not really draw.It's just the stun effect and bounce back,dummy.I can make it and have my cball go straight through the shot too! So could you if you weren't so stubbern and had a decent stroke! well and not use draw:lol Hurry up too!,I might go a fishin.John B.

PS:cheap ass Great value coffee here.100% colombian my hind in:frus Wife won't buy me the good stuff

You may as well go-a-fishin', I'll be searching my physics book for "bounce-back" the rest of the day. I'm sure it's in there somewhere.

P.S. Must I also send you a good coffee to drink?

P.Ps. I just checked my book and in the index all they have is bottom quark and then boundary conditions, sorry, no bounce back.

 

[John Brumback]

You may as well go-a-fishin', I'll be searching my physics book for "bounce-back" the rest of the day. I'm sure it's in there somewhere.

P.S. Must I also send you a good coffee to drink?

P.Ps. I just checked my book and in the index all they have is bottom quark and then boundary conditions, sorry, no bounce back.

View attachment 6119

You mean to tell me that a plastic ball can't or won't BOUNCE back off of another one just like it??? .My bad then:sorry:lol John B.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

You mean to tell me that a plastic ball can't or won't BOUNCE back off of another one just like it??? .My bad then:sorry:lol John B.

I'm not a physics major or anything but I know a couple of things about the laws of physics governing collisions between rotating spheres. Or at least I think I know, that's why I bought the physics books I do have, to learn the science of the game better.

I'll take a shot at answering your question about the bounce back. Of course, I stand to be corrected by the science guys who know much more than I do but I'll stick my neck out for chopping anyway

1. If the cueball & object ball are the same physical size and weigh the same amount, I don't believe there will be any bounce-back effect on that shot. What would cause the bounce-back?

2. If the cueball is heavier than the cueball but they are the same physical size I don't believe there would be any bounce-back either.

3. If the cueball is lighter than the object ball but they are the same physical size then the cueball could of course bounce-back slightly because it is hitting a heavier ball. I don't have any idea how much lighter the cueball would need to be to bounce-back as far as you made it bounce back but I would think it would have to be much lighter than the object ball, probably so light that you would never get any follow on it when needed.

Why don't you just admit that you hit that shot with a slight amount of backspin on it? It would be much easier than arguing with me.

P.S. You do realize don't you that you are saying you can make a cueball come back towards you without using draw.

Cowboy "got things to do, see you later" Dennis