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Non Bank-Pool Player's Dilemma

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  • Non Bank-Pool Player's Dilemma

    The shooter is up 3-2 this game and has BIH. The 6 is on the spot. Which ball would you shoot?

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  • #2
    Back bank 1b slightly with stun. Leave cb about even with 8b with room to bridge/shoot. Back bank 8ball with center left, leave cb at bottom rail even with 6 and 7.

    As a non banker-if I get too low with the cb for the 8, 7 and 6 still in play for cross corner or cross side.

    But I'm not a bank pool player.

    Comment


    • #3
      This is a good example to demonstrate a solid banking axiom or principle. Those with good sense will write this down or burn it into their brain.

      What ball to shoot at? A great rule of thumb is, to first try and shoot at the ball that has the most possibilities of being banked by your opponent -- in that particular situation. Which in this case would be the 6 ball as it can be banked into the most pockets. All the other balls are beneath it and are closer to the foot rail. By shooting at the 6 you not only remove the main threat in a leave, but if you can get the cue ball back up table those balls that are close to the foot rail are easier to play safe on due to the added distance.
      The problem with the shots in this situation is that there is no really solid option. Shooting the 6 and stopping the ball amongst the rest of the pack could result in your oppo getting all the way out, especially since it looks like the easy cross corner on the 8 ball would be left if you missed the 6.
      With a 3 to 2 lead and coming off an oppo's scratch, I want to be careful not to bet the game on anything that I would shoot from here. The 1 ball angle looks to be too short to be able to get the cue ball back up table safely. 7ball straight back? If I am going to shoot a straight back I would have to go for the 6. Its over a foot closer and much more dangerous in a leave than the 7 ball. You could shoot the 7 and full follow the cue ball back up the table but that aint so easy.

      I could go for banking the 6 and drawing the cue ball back to the head rail, but I wouldnt be ecstatic about shooting that. If I was backing someone and he clipped the side of the 6 ball tying it up with the other balls and sent whitey back downtable to the cushion, protecting the scratch advantage I just received, I would certainly not be upset at my player.

      An exception to this rule would be in a different layout, if there are balls near the rail and close to the side pockets, thereby setting up for easy cross sides, you would be looking to play off of those balls. It is just common sense. If you scoop up the gravy balls, they are not available for your oppo.

      Beard

      If I had a lot more energy I would post WEI table examples that would illustrate this point a lot more clearly.
      Last edited by fred bentivegna; 06-29-2012, 06:31 PM.
      New stuff on my site. 100s of pgs. of pool goodness
      www.bankingwiththebeard.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Up 3-2, I'd take the easiest shot to begin with - for me, the 1. You should be guaranteed a shot at something afterwards, no matter the leave. Bad leave - safe up, good leave - bank out. Cut across the face with speed or back-cut at a medium/slower hit, depending on what felt better.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by fred bentivegna View Post
          This is a good example to demonstrate a solid banking axiom or principle. Those with good sense will write this down or burn it into their brain.

          What ball to shoot at? A great rule of thumb is, to first try and shoot at the ball that has the most possibilities of being banked by your opponent -- in that particular situation. Which in this case would be the 6 ball as it can be banked into the most pockets. All the other balls are beneath it and are closer to the foot rail. By shooting at the 6 you not only remove the main threat in a leave, but if you can get the cue ball back up table those balls that are close to the foot rail are easier to play safe on due to the added distance.
          The problem with the shots in this situation is that there is no really solid option. Shooting the 6 and stopping the ball amongst the rest of the pack could result in your oppo getting all the way out, especially since it looks like the easy cross corner on the 8 ball would be left if you missed the 6.
          With a 3 to 2 lead and coming off an oppo's scratch, I want to be careful not to bet the game on anything that I would shoot from here. The 1 ball angle looks to be too short to be able to get the cue ball back up table safely. 7ball straight back? If I am going to shoot a straight back I would have to go for the 6. Its over a foot closer and much more dangerous in a leave than the 7 ball. You could shoot the 7 and full follow the cue ball back up the table but that aint so easy.

          I could go for banking the 6 and drawing the cue ball back to the head rail, but I wouldnt be ecstatic about shooting that. If I was backing someone and he clipped the side of the 6 ball tying it up with the other balls and sent whitey back downtable to the cushion, protecting the scratch advantage I just received, I would certainly not be upset at my player.

          An exception to this rule would be in a different layout, if there are balls near the rail and close to the side pockets, thereby setting up for easy cross sides, you would be looking to play off of those balls. It is just common sense. If you scoop up the gravy balls, they are not available for your oppo.

          Beard

          If I had a lot more energy I would post WEI table examples that would illustrate this point a lot more clearly.
          Thank you Freddy, another axiom to add in my notebook. I am amazed that such powerful information is available for free.

          Comment


          • #6
            Like the......

            .....messiah,Freddie is leading many out of the green felt jungle,cheers,Jack

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, Efren was the shooter and I guess he remembered those ancient Chicago lessons because he eventually banked at the 6 ball. He hit it a little wide and it came back down by the other balls.

              I would've had to shoot that fat 1 ball.


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              • #8
                Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                Well, Efren was the shooter and I guess he remembered those ancient Chicago lessons because he eventually banked at the 6 ball. He hit it a little wide and it came back down by the other balls.

                I would've had to shoot that fat 1 ball.


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                You fergot to mention that he also drewed his rock back downtable lak ah sed.

                Beard
                New stuff on my site. 100s of pgs. of pool goodness
                www.bankingwiththebeard.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by fred bentivegna View Post
                  You fergot to mention that he also drewed his rock back downtable lak ah sed.

                  Beard
                  You forgot to mention that I forgot this thread and needed to post the shot the player chose.

                  Yes, Effie did attempt the shot with draw (very unsteadily), he looks like a fish out of water when playing Bankpool. It's nice to see he's human under that Superman suit.

                  Dennis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Next question:

                    Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                    Well, Efren was the shooter and I guess he remembered those ancient Chicago lessons because he eventually banked at the 6 ball. He hit it a little wide and it came back down by the other balls.

                    I would've had to shoot that fat 1 ball.


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                    Next question: After Efren's miss it is the other guy's shot. He is down 3 to 2, now what does he do from here?

                    Beard
                    New stuff on my site. 100s of pgs. of pool goodness
                    www.bankingwiththebeard.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well, he needs 3, so he'd probably want to shoot the 8 straight-back, the 4 straight-back, then either the 6 or the 1. The 8 ball should be as good now as it was when it was the 6 ball, right?

                      Doc

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would bank the 8 ball for the following reasons

                        1.-- It's the closest ball to the cue ball, as one of my better options.
                        2.-- It also looks to be straight in, so I should hit it well.
                        3.--It appears to be the easiest hit of all the options.
                        4.--I'll probably hit it better realizing that i'm shooting the right shot. (for me)

                        Playing position would be borderline because of both the difficulty of the shot, and the importance of putting it down. I'm not saying that I wouldn't try to play shape but i'm certainly not going to compromise the accuracy of the shot to play shape. This shot is too big not to put 90% of your concentration into pocketing the ball. Pocketing the ball is paramount from this position, it leaves you with options with the score at three apiece.

                        Dr.Bill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gulfportdoc View Post
                          Well, he needs 3, so he'd probably want to shoot the 8 straight-back, the 4 straight-back, then either the 6 or the 1. The 8 ball should be as good now as it was when it was the 6 ball, right?

                          Doc
                          No, not the same, and because of opposite reasons. Now you are the trailer 2 to 3, and all the reasons the leader would shoot the 8 are all the reasons why you wouldnt want to shoot the 8 if you could help it. All the things that were working for you when you were ahead, now will work against you now that you are behind.

                          As I cited, the 8 ball is the optimum ball on this particular layout. When you are ahead you would want to try and use that ball up for yourself. However, when you are behind you would like to try and find an option ball that is slightly out of play, but with relatively the same amount of difficulty so that you can save the "good" 8 ball to perhaps continue your run, or be a part of a later part of your run, or at the least if you miss, be a part of a dangerous open layout that will represent a real threat to the player that is ahead.

                          You have to forego the worry that your choice could also present more opportunities for your opponent. That is true, but that danger is compensated for by the fact that you can get all the way out if he fails. It is risky, but worth it because you are keeping constant pressure up due to the open fertile table.

                          That said, and for the above reasons I would bank the 6 straight back medium speed and have the 8 ball cross corner or cross side. (The same type of shot like the 1 ball that Cowboy Dennis wanted to shoot in the previous situation. Many more reasons to shoot it now rather than then.)
                          Shooting the 6 which is the main "blocker" ball to the other balls, completely opens up the table for the other 3 balls. The exact reason why you wouldnt want to do it when you were ahead. You dont want to open the table up when you have a lead.

                          I learned this lesson well from a master, Bugs Rucker. Many times I would have a lead on him and I would try to lock up and shut down the table for bank opportunities. Bugs would always find the balls that would most foil my efforts, shoot at them and keep the table open -- if he needed it open.
                          Like a crossover straight back where he sent the cue ball into a cluster, or a cross over cross corner where instead of going up table safe he would hurl the cue ball into the rear of the stack. Or just bank at the balls that were blocking cross corners or cross sides.

                          Conversely, if you are ahead these are the balls that you try to leave right where they are at.

                          Beard

                          Plus Doc, one more axiom. If possible I only want to shoot at ONE straight back in a row. Not two or three. If I am fortunate enough to make a straight back I would like my reward to be a cross corner or a cross side, not another straight back.
                          New stuff on my site. 100s of pgs. of pool goodness
                          www.bankingwiththebeard.com

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fred bentivegna View Post
                            That said, and for the above reasons I would bank the 6 straight back medium speed and have the 8 ball cross corner or cross side.

                            Beard
                            Pinegar banked the 6 straight-back but the rock rolled to here:

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                              Pinegar banked the 6 straight-back but the rock rolled to here:

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                              The score is 3 to 3. Now what?

                              Beard
                              New stuff on my site. 100s of pgs. of pool goodness
                              www.bankingwiththebeard.com

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