Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Lee Van Corteza vs. Alex Pagulayan 2012 D.C.C.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by fred bentivegna View Post
    I may reprint that quote later.

    Lets mark this, 1# for Dr Bill.

    Beard
    If I believed myself to have a 50% chance of blocking or making either the 8 or 4, I'd be all over those. The angle for the 8 looks like a scratch if not hit with something to avoid it and, playing myself, I feel I'd be taking a flyer with the 4 to give up a straight-back that I'd drool for in comparison.

    Made a Z or two yesterday, but at closer to the angle of the 8. Need to practice those a bit more, I guess. That, and everything else.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by fred bentivegna View Post
      Originally Posted by fred bentivegna
      That will really work. Run the cue ball too far forward and you leave a cross side. Hold it a little higher off of the short rail and you could very well leave a 2 in the side. (First, you're only going to roll the shot, the cue ball will end up near the side rail in a safe position, easy shot. Secondly i'm really not concerned about leaving n off angle two in the side) Beard: and why, pray tell would you not be worried? Nobody can ever make that shot?

      With the 9 ball blocking the pocket and only straight back and 1 cross corner open, that happens to be the LEAST threatening area of the table in this situation. (That's my point, the 9 ball most likely will be pocketed by either you or your opponent shortly, then where's the most threatening area? That's why I said to look deeper into the future and choose a shot that would remedy that possible situation, now when you have a chance. What are you trading for that? A two rail bank in the corner and stopping your ball, give me a break) Beard:
      As far as worrying about me having to make the 9 ball, read post #10 for what I said about Humpy.


      Needing one ball those two are pretty much where you want them to be. Whatever straight back he chooses will leave you a good shot for the game winner if he misses, and with 2 balls hanging in the pocket he cant get all the way out anyway. (Right and wrong,yes you're right about him not being able to get out with two balls hanging. But if you shoot your two in the corner and miss you will be leaving a just about free bank as a return shot.)
      Some of you are worrying about leaving a straight back. Ask yourself this question: Just exactly what kind of a bank would you rather be leaving, a cross corner or a cross side instead? If you have to leave something, straight backs are what you want to leave. (Shooting the 8 ball you don't leave either)

      To not shoot at the twice across game winner when you are, a., off the rail with the cue ball, b.,only a couple of diamonds away, c., shooting at an perfectly natural angle, d., full hit with a stop ball, e., with a chance to hang it up or block the pocket, f., with the downside that you might leave a straight back ( that he certainly cant win with) if you dont block the pocket -- boggles my mind. (You're not a favorite to do either from the position you're shooting from. make it or block the pocket, plus trading that shot with the hopes of being productive as opposed to shooting a shot that's a guarantee of being productive seems like an easy choice for me) Beard: I would like to bet that I make it 1 out of 3. I would bet that I block the pocket or make it, 2 out of 4.

      Anyone can feel free to debate that reasoning point by point.

      Beard



      I am going to step out here. I dont believe that there is a living creature that manages the game of bank pool better than me. Just like when I barked that out to all those champions at the Cincinnati bank tourn. Nobody made a peep. (You're right, you have a way of intimidating people, so they let you say what you wanted to say)
      Finally, your reasoning is so off base that I can only conclude that you are not aware that the score is 4 to 0. ( On the contrary I made my decision based off of the score, I wanted to create a more difficult position for my opponent to be able to make a come back in this game.)

      Another point that usually is overlooked by 1pkt players. I mentioned this in an earlier thread and it apparently disappeared back into the atmosphere.

      Bank Pool Axiom: Being in the 1 hole in banks is nowhere near as safe and strong as it is in 1pkt. In 1pkt you can really take balls out of play because you only have to defend against 1 pocket. In banks someone who is behind can get back in the game 40 times faster than 1pkt. That is why in bank pool you dont look to stall on the hill and hope your oppo puts you out. You must push the issue more than you would in 1pkt. ( I agree with what you say about it's easier for your opponent to make a come back playing bank pool easier than when playing one pocket, but that's exactly my point and reason why i'm choosing my shot, to make that possible come back as difficult as possible for my opponent.)

      Now with all that said, does anyone still want to not try and get out with the cross corner twice? ( like I said in an earlier post, what's the hurry? you can be more productive (guaranteed) tying up live balls.)

      If so, all with dissenting opinions please post your opposition -- or your support of Billy's position. It is important that I get to know who is buying into my concepts. At this point it doesnt seem like anybody is.

      BEard
      I have learned much of what I know listening to players like yourself, you have learned much the same way I have. But you must agree that we're both still learning. With that said, I have found a lot of merit in what you're saying, I would hope you have seen some in my thoughts.

      Dr. Bill

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Banks View Post
        If I believed myself to have a 50% chance of blocking or making either the 8 or 4, I'd be all over those. The angle for the 8 looks like a scratch if not hit with something to avoid it and, playing myself, I feel I'd be taking a flyer with the 4 to give up a straight-back that I'd drool for in comparison.

        Made a Z or two yesterday, but at closer to the angle of the 8. Need to practice those a bit more, I guess. That, and everything else.
        You have thoroughly confused me when you said that you might scratch shooting the 8 ball You simply have to hit the 8 ball straight ahead and roll softly through the 8 ball and position it in back of the 7 ball. Where's the scratch?

        Dr. Bill

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by wincardona View Post
          You have thoroughly confused me when you said that you might scratch shooting the 8 ball You simply have to hit the 8 ball straight ahead and roll softly through the 8 ball and position it in back of the 7 ball. Where's the scratch?

          Dr. Bill
          I was talking about the Z-bank, not the safety. I guess I should have pointed that out.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by fred bentivegna View Post

            To not shoot at the twice across game winner when you are, a., off the rail with the cue ball, b.,only a couple of diamonds away, c., shooting at an perfectly natural angle, d., full hit with a stop ball, e., with a chance to hang it up or block the pocket, f., with the downside that you might leave a straight back ( that he certainly cant win with) if you dont block the pocket -- boggles my mind.

            Beard


            Now with all that said, does anyone still want to not try and get out with the cross corner twice?

            If so, all with dissenting opinions please post your opposition -- or your support of Billy's position. It is important that I get to know who is buying into my concepts. At this point it doesnt seem like anybody is.

            BEard
            I don't care what anyone else on the planet would shoot or why, but, for my money I'm banking the 4 ball two-rails cross-corner just as you would Freddy. I would never do otherwise in this position.

            What's not to like? You need one ball. You get to shoot straight ahead, stroke the ball, and it will die blocking the corner if you miss it (most likely) preventing the straight-back on the 7 & 8. This is fairly simple to see.

            Dennis
            Last edited by Cowboy Dennis; 07-06-2012, 04:45 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Banks View Post
              I was talking about the Z-bank, not the safety. I guess I should have pointed that out.
              Sorry, I didn't realize that you were talking about banking the 8. Is the Z- bank the same as banking the 8 ball three in the side? If so it doesn't look like the angle for that shot is on. If it is I would shoot that shot.

              Dr. Bill

              Comment


              • #22
                This is the shot I'm referring to:

                Click image for larger version

Name:	CBD's shot.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	41.9 KB
ID:	385844

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                  This is the shot I'm referring to:

                  [ATTACH]6394[/ATTACH]
                  Dennis, I understand that that's the actual Z- shot, but the Z- shot Banks was referring to was the 8 ball (I believe) Look below.


                  HTML Code:
                  If I believed myself to have a 50% chance of blocking or making either the 8 or 4, I'd be all over those. The angle for the 8 looks like a scratch if not hit with something to avoid it and, playing myself, I feel I'd be taking a flyer with the 4 to give up a straight-back that I'd drool for in comparison.
                  
                  Made a Z or two yesterday, but at closer to the angle of the 8. Need to practice those a bit more, I guess. That, and everything else.
                  I'm still confused.

                  Dr. Bill

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                    Dennis, I understand that that's the actual Z- shot, but the Z- shot Banks was referring to was the 8 ball (I believe) Look below.


                    HTML Code:
                    If I believed myself to have a 50% chance of blocking or making either the 8 or 4, I'd be all over those. The angle for the 8 looks like a scratch if not hit with something to avoid it and, playing myself, I feel I'd be taking a flyer with the 4 to give up a straight-back that I'd drool for in comparison.
                    
                    Made a Z or two yesterday, but at closer to the angle of the 8. Need to practice those a bit more, I guess. That, and everything else.
                    I'm still confused.

                    Dr. Bill
                    I'm referring to post #20.

                    Dennis

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Will the seven go one rail in the corner? If so, it looks like the cueball will miss the eight. Seems like you could try it, and still not leave much.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                        I don't care what anyone else on the planet would shoot or why, but, for my money I'm banking the 4 ball two-rails cross-corner just as you would Freddy. I would never do otherwise in this position.

                        What's not to like? You need one ball. You get to shoot straight ahead, stroke the ball, and it will die blocking the corner if you miss it (most likely) preventing the straight-back on the 7 & 8. This is fairly simple to see.

                        Dennis
                        Did you mean 'fairly simple to see' or "fairly simple to do'?

                        Dr. Bill

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                          Did you mean 'fairly simple to see' or "fairly simple to do'?

                          Dr. Bill
                          I set this shot up on my Diamond Table and shot it 5 times, but first I would like to add that the angle that I see is not a shoot and stop angle to pocket the bank. To pocket the Z-bank the shot needs to be slightly cut, not only does that create problems with the accuracy of the hit it also makes the speed of the shot harder to feel. In addition to that the chances of giving up a return bank are increased because of the problems in controlling both the speed of the 4 ball and the speed and direction the cue ball will take. You not only run the risk of giving up a return bank on either the 7 or 8 balls, but also the pink 4 ball when you consider the difficulty in controlling the speed of the ball because you have to slightly cut it.

                          The 5 times I shot it I never made it and only got it close to the pocket once. I don't feel that this is a good shot to take in this situation based off of my findings. This shot is not shoot and stick.

                          Dr. Bill

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                            I set this shot up on my Diamond Table and shot it 5 times, but first I would like to add that the angle that I see is not a shoot and stop angle to pocket the bank. To pocket the Z-bank the shot needs to be slightly cut, not only does that create problems with the accuracy of the hit it also makes the speed of the shot harder to feel. In addition to that the chances of giving up a return bank are increased because of the problems in controlling both the speed of the 4 ball and the speed and direction the cue ball will take. You not only run the risk of giving up a return bank on either the 7 or 8 balls, but also the pink 4 ball when you consider the difficulty in controlling the speed of the ball because you have to slightly cut it.

                            The 5 times I shot it I never made it and only got it close to the pocket once. I don't feel that this is a good shot to take in this situation based off of my findings. This shot is not shoot and stick.

                            Dr. Bill
                            I went back to my table and shot it 5 more times, I made it one time and I never was able to control the speed of the shot because of the angle and the speed needed to hit and stick.Even though I couldn't hit and stick I tried to get as little movement with the cue ball as possible which created problems with both the direction and speed of the 4 ball. This is not a good option period. At least, not for me.

                            Dr. Bill

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                              I went back to my table and shot it 5 more times, I made it one time and I never was able to control the speed of the shot because of the angle and the speed needed to hit and stick.Even though I couldn't hit and stick I tried to get as little movement with the cue ball as possible which created problems with both the direction and speed of the 4 ball. This is not a good option period. At least, not for me.

                              Dr. Bill
                              I just came back from the store and was thinking about this shot on the way back. I said to myself that when I get back i'll set the shot up so it's a hit and stick shot to see if I would like the shot if it ever showed like that. Well I shot the shot 5 times and made it twice, hung it once and missed it twice. But, I hit the shot with the speed that gave me the best chance of making it, which I did 40% of the time plus like I mentioned hung it once. I concluded that if you're going to play this shot in situations that allowed you to, the best way to play the shot is with the speed that gives you the most accuracy, and not the speed that blocks the pocket if you miss it.

                              So, if the shot shows where it's a hit and stick shot I would strongly consider shooting it, but if the angle precludes me from hitting and sticking I would not play the shot.

                              I guess Freddie was correct with his evaluation of the shot, providing it is a hit and stick shot but like I suggested that if the shot shows, play the shot with the speed that gives you the most accurate hit. Jmo.

                              Dr. Bill

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                                I set this shot up on my Diamond Table and shot it 5 times, but first I would like to add that the angle that I see is not a shoot and stop angle to pocket the bank. To pocket the Z-bank the shot needs to be slightly cut, not only does that create problems with the accuracy of the hit it also makes the speed of the shot harder to feel. In addition to that the chances of giving up a return bank are increased because of the problems in controlling both the speed of the 4 ball and the speed and direction the cue ball will take. You not only run the risk of giving up a return bank on either the 7 or 8 balls, but also the pink 4 ball when you consider the difficulty in controlling the speed of the ball because you have to slightly cut it.

                                The 5 times I shot it I never made it and only got it close to the pocket once. I don't feel that this is a good shot to take in this situation based off of my findings. This shot is not shoot and stick. Dr. Bill
                                I wondered about that angle myself. It looked to my eye like the OB had to be contacted a little left of center. Either that, or to shorten the angle, the shot would have to be hit pretty hard if shot straight on, or with a smidge of left english-- neither of which I'd like to do. I'd like the shot better if I could roll the CB forward and bank it off the rail more towards center table, which would make the 8 & 7 much harder to bank.

                                Another minor consideration is that the CB is close to the rail, which would cause the shooter to have to dig down on the CB a little if using low english.

                                But Fred's reasoning is solid too. If a guy is reasonably confident about making the twice-across pink, then he should go for it. Even if not, the best that the opponent probably could do would be to make two, when he needs five. The shooter can win the game here with very little downside if he misses.

                                Doc
                                Last edited by gulfportdoc; 07-07-2012, 12:49 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X