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What spot is better?

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  • What spot is better?

    The break or a ball playing 9 ball banks? I got to play some banks at the tournament at Cape Giradeau, Mo, and had a good visit with Tony Fargo. It was the first time I had seen him in 25yrs. They had a good bank ring game one night, and Tony played the winner of the ring game the next night heads up . He doesn't play like he did in his prime, but still banks them good. So, which spot had you rather have?

  • #2
    Originally posted by backplaying View Post
    The break or a ball playing 9 ball banks? I got to play some banks at the tournament at Cape Giradeau, Mo, and had a good visit with Tony Fargo. It was the first time I had seen him in 25yrs. They had a good bank ring game one night, and Tony played the winner of the ring game the next night heads up . He doesn't play like he did in his prime, but still banks them good. So, which spot had you rather have?
    I would take the ball for sure. The break is a very deceptive "spot" I would say, but i don't play much actual bank pool I did see Mark Tadd run 3 out of his 5 breaks in 9 ball breaks though, so it can be a strong advantage of course. Curious what others say.... the tighter the pockets, the more play there is, the better than ball spot would be though.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by tylerdurden View Post
      I would take the ball for sure. The break is a very deceptive "spot" I would say, but i don't play much actual bank pool I did see Mark Tadd run 3 out of his 5 breaks in 9 ball breaks though, so it can be a strong advantage of course. Curious what others say.... the tighter the pockets, the more play there is, the better than ball spot would be though.
      There's no black and white answer for this question, it lays with the speed of the players that are playing. Speaking for myself I would rather have a ball playing a player of my speed, but I play at least 10/7 or 9/6 under the best bankers. Playing 9 ball bank it's a tougher match up, i'd lose with 5/4, but at 5/3 I would win. Now for a top banker I would believe that the break would be a bigger spot,
      But for players that play my speed and below I believe the ball would be more of an advantage.

      Dr. Bill

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      • #4
        Here's a thread that discusses the break in short rack, making a ball and so on..

        http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showt...ht=open&page=2

        Edit: Keep in mind, those are some uhh.. decent players. ReEdit: Err, so maybe it's just talking about Brumback's breaks.

        Screw it, who knows.. read it, it has some information.

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        • #5
          Take the ball. You get to break every other game anyway.

          Beard
          New stuff on my site. 100s of pgs. of pool goodness
          www.bankingwiththebeard.com

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          • #6
            Originally posted by fred bentivegna View Post
            Take the ball. You get to break every other game anyway.

            Beard
            I never played alternating breaks when playing short-rack banks. I can't remember how we played full-rack but I think it was winner break also.

            I'd take the ball before I'd take the break. Going to 4 is strong. If the OP is talking about going to 5 though (6-5) I'd think about it more.

            Dennis

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            • #7
              Originally posted by backplaying View Post
              The break or a ball playing 9 ball banks? I got to play some banks at the tournament at Cape Giradeau, Mo, and had a good visit with Tony Fargo. It was the first time I had seen him in 25yrs. They had a good bank ring game one night, and Tony played the winner of the ring game the next night heads up . He doesn't play like he did in his prime, but still banks them good. So, which spot had you rather have?
              Is a ball 6-5 or is it 5-4?

              Dennis

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                There's no black and white answer for this question, it lays with the speed of the players that are playing. Speaking for myself I would rather have a ball playing a player of my speed, but I play at least 10/7 or 9/6 under the best bankers. Playing 9 ball bank it's a tougher match up, i'd lose with 5/4, but at 5/3 I would win. Now for a top banker I would believe that the break would be a bigger spot,
                But for players that play my speed and below I believe the ball would be more of an advantage.

                Dr. Bill
                This to me is a very subjective topic and the best way to decide which is stronger is take two players that play close to one another in speed, one player will break every game and the other player will get a 1 ball spot (5/4) play a significant number of games, then do the math. Using this type of method you will find out which is stronger, the ball or the break, but only for that caliber of players. If we had the time and the players that played at different levels, and tested all level of play then we would have the answer we seek, for all level of players.

                Dr. Bill

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                  This to me is a very subjective topic and the best way to decide which is stronger is take two players that play close to one another in speed, one player will break every game and the other player will get a 1 ball spot (5/4) play a significant number of games, then do the math. Using this type of method you will find out which is stronger, the ball or the break, but only for that caliber of players. If we had the time and the players that played at different levels, and tested all level of play then we would have the answer we seek, for all level of players.

                  Dr. Bill
                  Bill,

                  I believe you're overthinking it. Let's take a hypothetical situation: The better player offers the weaker player a choice of either 5-4 or all the breaks. It must be a fairly close game or it wouldn't be offered in that manner.

                  If they are playing alternate-breaks then the weaker player only gains 50% of the breaks by accepting the break and he plays 5-5. He also denies the better player 50% of the breaks.

                  If they are playing alternate-breaks and the weaker player accepts 5-4 then he gets 5-4 & the break 50% of the time.

                  If they are playing winner-breaks and the weaker player takes the breaks then he is playing 5-5 & getting all the breaks, the same as if they were alternating breaks & he took all the breaks. The only thing gained here is an opportunity to break and make a few balls. He also denies the better player the opportunity to do the same to him. I don't think that's worth a guaranteed ball all the time.

                  If they are playing winner-breaks and the weaker player accepts 5-4 he will break 50% of the time anyway if the game is close.

                  If the weaker player takes 5-4 and loses 10 games in a row then he wasn't getting enough weight anyway.

                  I don't see any scenario at all where the break is equal to 5-4, not winner-breaks and not alternate-breaks, unless of course you threw in a free-foul per game.

                  Dennis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                    Bill,

                    I believe you're overthinking it. Let's take a hypothetical situation: The better player offers the weaker player a choice of either 5-4 or all the breaks. It must be a fairly close game or it wouldn't be offered in that manner.

                    If they are playing alternate-breaks then the weaker player only gains 50% of the breaks by accepting the break and he plays 5-5. He also denies the better player 50% of the breaks.

                    If they are playing alternate-breaks and the weaker player accepts 5-4 then he gets 5-4 & the break 50% of the time.

                    If they are playing winner-breaks and the weaker player takes the breaks then he is playing 5-5 & getting all the breaks, the same as if they were alternating breaks & he took all the breaks. The only thing gained here is an opportunity to break and make a few balls. He also denies the better player the opportunity to do the same to him. I don't think that's worth a guaranteed ball all the time.

                    If they are playing winner-breaks and the weaker player accepts 5-4 he will break 50% of the time anyway if the game is close.

                    If the weaker player takes 5-4 and loses 10 games in a row then he wasn't getting enough weight anyway.

                    I don't see any scenario at all where the break is equal to 5-4, not winner-breaks and not alternate-breaks, unless of course you threw in a free-foul per game.

                    Dennis
                    As meticulous and methodical as you are i'm sure your stats are correct, but lets not under value the break playing 9 ball banks, especially for top players. I'm almost certain that the break playing 9 ball banks is stronger than the break playing 9 ball, again, especially for the top players. Is it worth a ball? I really couldn't say for certain, that depends on the conditions...loose pockets...new cloth....speed of rails....ect.ect. But for weaker players the ball is more of an advantage than the break, even on loose pockets.

                    Dr. Bill

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A player offering 5-4 and/ or all breaks, usually knows he is offering it to a player who breaks wide open and does not control the cue ball well.

                      Getting the breaks, IF you DON"T control the cueball will cost you a ball every time you scratch and give the other player ball in hand behind the line. Now it's 5-5 and he has control.

                      Giving the break can be an advantage, IF you know who your giving it too. It might cover the spot some games.

                      On the other hand, giving the breaks to a guy who breaks well and controls the cueball, will make for a long night, for someone who can normally cover a 5-4 spot without giving the break away.

                      To give that spot you MUST know how the other player breaks. It's often given to equal out the spot, with the hope of scratches and minus balls.


                      If I was on the receiving end of the spot, I'd take the ball. Unless he can run out, I have to think I have the best of it. Over the long haul in most cases out running a spot can get hard for players playing someone of equal skill level.

                      If I felt I needed the ball and the break, I would just ask for 8-6 and be done with it. If I felt I needed more than that, I would not play. I'd get back on the porch with the rest of the dogs.
                      My Hero is JOHN BRUMBACK!!!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Warren View Post
                        Over the long haul in most cases out running a spot can get hard for players playing someone of equal skill level.
                        Warren,

                        Why would a player give weight to a player of equal speed?

                        Dennis

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                          Warren,

                          Why would a player give weight to a player of equal speed?

                          Dennis
                          You guys are starting to sound like a new poster on AZB..with a question like..."Which is the smart move, getting 10/4, or 8/5 ? ...Puhleeeeze...Try and ask, and answer sensible questions..

                          Bored Duck <---May switch to Jimbos Army..
                          Last edited by SJDinPHX; 07-23-2012, 09:37 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SJDinPHX View Post
                            You guys are starting to sound like a new poster on AZB..with a question like..."Which is the smart move, getting 10/4, or 8/5 ? ...Puhleeeeze...Try and ask, and answer sensible questions..

                            Bored Duck <---May switch to Jimbos Army..
                            Dear Mr. "Pocket Speed Banking Duck",

                            STFU

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                              Warren,

                              Why would a player give weight to a player of equal speed?

                              Dennis
                              I think that's a easy one "To see it he could beat the spot."

                              Many players looking to improve/ challenge themselves often feel the need for the extra challenge. I have known several players who have lost many times trying to beat OL' Spot when they could have won playing even. They remind you of this ICON
                              My Hero is JOHN BRUMBACK!!!

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