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  • #16
    Originally posted by fred bentivegna View Post
    No contest. Bugs drawing away. Especially for big,big money. Gary was able to fade a decent bet, like up to $1500 to $2000 a set, tops. The sky was the limit with Bugs, even tho both players would be getting backed.
    Gary was a great banker. He just didn't play as good as Bugs. As far as I know, only Eddie Taylor did. Maybe Youngblood. Maybe.

    Beard
    Actually like most times, Freddy, you're close! Gary would agree that Bugs, at his prime, was probably the better and Eddie Taylor at the top of the heap in banks. And you're right on the money

    aspect also. I staked Gary for many years and I was never a deep pocket gambler. I had a family and a business that took priority and would not put myself in a position that would harm either

    of them. Gary always knew that and cared about my family and business as if they were his own. I never once had a concern of whether Gary was trying his best for my money! He often would

    refuse games that I wanted him to try because as he said "it's too tough"! Because of that we very seldom lost! From the mid '80's on Bugs could not beat Gary! They played at least 6 times

    that I have very vivid memories of and Gary won all but one time. That time most of the people thought Bugs won when in fact they broke even on sets, Gary was ahead on games won and

    because I was pressured in to raising the bet prematurely, we lost $1k. Two of the times they played, they played one pocket and Bugs spotted Gary a ball. Gary won both of those and the spot,

    even though a psychological advantage, did not really show up in the score. I'm certainly not saying Gary was better than Bugs, but by this time Bugs just could no longer beat Gary. I'd also

    like to go on record as saying that Bugs was probably the best person on the planet for Gary to match up with. I wish they could have played EVERY day and not because we were winning. Bugs

    was always a gentleman. Meaning that there was never any sign of an argument, disagreement, or disrespect of any kind between them. They both had a lot of respect for one another. We'd

    sometimes take a break in the action to go outside for a little fresh air (or maybe smokey air) the 3 of us together as if we were road partners or just friends instead of rivals. We were rivals, but

    still friends!

    Since we're on the subject of "Spaeth & Bugs", I'll relate another little story about Joey Spaeth and Bugs. This was told to me in part by Billy Carrelli, another Cincinnati player and comments

    from Joey. When Bugs first started playing one pocket, his stake horses recognized his talents but knew there was a great deal he didn't know about the game. Joey was one of the best movers

    in the country at that time, so Bugs' stakehorses set up a weekly game at a small quiet pool room in Dayton. They would bring Bugs down every week to Play Joey cheap ($50 a rack) one pocket

    with Joey giving Bugs 11-8 in the beginning. Of course over a period of about 6 months or so, the game made several adjustments until they were playing even and Joey realized that he could

    no longer beat Bugs even. Joey said "I took him to school and now Bugs is the teacher".
    Last edited by cuesmith; 10-06-2012, 05:17 PM. Reason: spacing
    Just more hot air!


    Sherm

    Sherm Custom Cues
    Cincinnati, Ohio

    Comment


    • #17
      Sherm; GREAT story about Joey and Bugs, I knew Joey and Gary when he only about 14-16 yrs of age. Young Gary was already trying to play for money. At that time Joey hung around a pool room in the "red light" district of Cincy. Very good player defensively, and real nice guy. As usual, I was called in to play an older rich business man some 3C. I can't tell you how many times the scenario from the movie, "The Hustler" came about, I will have to admit it was by my design, But I'll save all those stories for when I write my life story, "Hustling the Niche Game"! I got the idea for the title from a so called member of this forum.

      As I've stated before, "Bugs" had more natural talent than all the players I've seen throughout the years, and no fear of losing or the money!

      Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
      http://mr3cushion.com
      Last edited by mr3cushion; 10-07-2012, 12:04 AM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by John Brumback View Post
        Yes JL.I do remember that shot.I have the tape.

        Gary was real good with those off the wall shots but that was his undoing many times.For some reason he would go for some wild shots sometimes.I don't think he cared about the money as much as some of us,lol. I've played with the best bankers in the world,excluding Ed Taylor.Gary knew and played more good safes and free shots than anyone else that I have played with, including L. Buggs R. Gary was technically, way better than Buggs,he just didn't get the money as well.Maybe Buggs was more money hungry and or had more killer instinct.That's the way I saw it anyway.Two of the worlds best at any rate and I'm glad I got to watch and play them both.John B.
        Interesting perspective from someone who played 'em both, thanks. Did you ever go on the road with Gary, or were you two mostly adversaries on the table?

        Second question, since you played both Gary and Bugs, which did you find to be the more difficult opponent?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by cuesmith View Post
          Actually like most times, Freddy, you're close! Gary would agree that Bugs, at his prime, was probably the better and Eddie Taylor at the top of the heap in banks. And you're right on the money

          aspect also. I staked Gary for many years and I was never a deep pocket gambler. I had a family and a business that took priority and would not put myself in a position that would harm either

          of them. Gary always knew that and cared about my family and business as if they were his own. I never once had a concern of whether Gary was trying his best for my money! He often would

          refuse games that I wanted him to try because as he said "it's too tough"! Because of that we very seldom lost! From the mid '80's on Bugs could not beat Gary! They played at least 6 times

          that I have very vivid memories of and Gary won all but one time. That time most of the people thought Bugs won when in fact they broke even on sets, Gary was ahead on games won and

          because I was pressured in to raising the bet prematurely, we lost $1k. Two of the times they played, they played one pocket and Bugs spotted Gary a ball. Gary won both of those and the spot,

          even though a psychological advantage, did not really show up in the score. I'm certainly not saying Gary was better than Bugs, but by this time Bugs just could no longer beat Gary. I'd also

          like to go on record as saying that Bugs was probably the best person on the planet for Gary to match up with. I wish they could have played EVERY day and not because we were winning. Bugs

          was always a gentleman. Meaning that there was never any sign of an argument, disagreement, or disrespect of any kind between them. They both had a lot of respect for one another. We'd

          sometimes take a break in the action to go outside for a little fresh air (or maybe smokey air) the 3 of us together as if we were road partners or just friends instead of rivals. We were rivals, but

          still friends!

          Since we're on the subject of "Spaeth & Bugs", I'll relate another little story about Joey Spaeth and Bugs. This was told to me in part by Billy Carrelli, another Cincinnati player and comments

          from Joey. When Bugs first started playing one pocket, his stake horses recognized his talents but knew there was a great deal he didn't know about the game. Joey was one of the best movers

          in the country at that time, so Bugs' stakehorses set up a weekly game at a small quiet pool room in Dayton. They would bring Bugs down every week to Play Joey cheap ($50 a rack) one pocket

          with Joey giving Bugs 11-8 in the beginning. Of course over a period of about 6 months or so, the game made several adjustments until they were playing even and Joey realized that he could

          no longer beat Bugs even. Joey said "I took him to school and now Bugs is the teacher".

          Awesome read, thanks!

          Comment


          • #20
            for Billy Smith.

            Originally posted by mr3cushion View Post
            Sherm; GREAT story about Joey and Bugs, I knew Joey and Gary when he only about 14-16 yrs of age. Young Gary was already trying to play for money. At that time Joey hung around a pool room in the "red light" district of Cincy. Very good player defensively, and real nice guy. As usual, I was called in to play an older rich business man some 3C. I can't tell you how many times the scenario from the movie, "The Hustler" came about, I will have to admit it was by my design, But I'll save all those stories for when I write my life story, "Hustling the Niche Game"! I got the idea for the title from a so called member of this forum.

            As I've stated before, "Bugs" had more natural talent than all the players I've seen throughout the years, and no fear of losing or the money!

            Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
            http://mr3cushion.com


            Thanks Billy. I'm looking forward to reading your book when it comes out! While we telling stories, I've got one you'll get a kick out of.



            I'm sure you don't remember this, but we met about 20 years ago at the Chicago Billiards Cafe. I was driving to Minneapolis to pick up my new CNC machine and made arrangements to meet

            Deno Andrews at CBC to pick up a copy of Pedro's 3C trick shot videos. You were knocking balls around on the table closest to the counter so Deno introduced us and gave me a quick bio about

            you.


            About a week later I was back in Cincinnati at my poolroom, Beechmont Billiards. Bucky Bell has been a friend of mine (and a player rep for my cues) for many years. Bucky happened to be in

            that morning having his morning coffee and he was hitting balls around on my old Brunswick Anniversary carom table. He made the casual statement that he wished there was someone he

            could gamble with at 3C. He fancied himself as a pretty good 3C player but he said "those damn billiard players are a bunch of stuffed shirts! They won't bet that they're alive!" I said, "Bucky, I

            think I can find you a little action." Just as he took a long gulp of his coffee, he asked "WHO?" I quickly replied "Bill Smith" thinking it was a generic enough of a name that he'd probably not

            recognize it. To my surprise, Bucky's face kind of exploded spewing coffee all down the front of MY shirt! lol When he was able to talk, he asked "What kind of a trap are you trying to put me in?"

            He went on to say "That damn Billy Smith is probably the best American 3C player on the planet, and he WILL gamble!"





            I just thought you'd get a kick out of that story. When do you expect to get your book out or is it in the "thinking about it" stages like the one I've been planning to write for many years?



            Sherm
            Just more hot air!


            Sherm

            Sherm Custom Cues
            Cincinnati, Ohio

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by cuesmith View Post
              Thanks Billy. I'm looking forward to reading your book when it comes out! While we telling stories, I've got one you'll get a kick out of.



              I'm sure you don't remember this, but we met about 20 years ago at the Chicago Billiards Cafe. I was driving to Minneapolis to pick up my new CNC machine and made arrangements to meet

              Deno Andrews at CBC to pick up a copy of Pedro's 3C trick shot videos. You were knocking balls around on the table closest to the counter so Deno introduced us and gave me a quick bio about

              you.


              About a week later I was back in Cincinnati at my poolroom, Beechmont Billiards. Bucky Bell has been a friend of mine (and a player rep for my cues) for many years. Bucky happened to be in

              that morning having his morning coffee and he was hitting balls around on my old Brunswick Anniversary carom table. He made the casual statement that he wished there was someone he

              could gamble with at 3C. He fancied himself as a pretty good 3C player but he said "those damn billiard players are a bunch of stuffed shirts! They won't bet that they're alive!" I said, "Bucky, I

              think I can find you a little action." Just as he took a long gulp of his coffee, he asked "WHO?" I quickly replied "Bill Smith" thinking it was a generic enough of a name that he'd probably not

              recognize it. To my surprise, Bucky's face kind of exploded spewing coffee all down the front of MY shirt! lol When he was able to talk, he asked "What kind of a trap are you trying to put me in?"

              He went on to say "That damn Billy Smith is probably the best American 3C player on the planet, and he WILL gamble!"





              I just thought you'd get a kick out of that story. When do you expect to get your book out or is it in the "thinking about it" stages like the one I've been planning to write for many years?



              Sherm
              Thanks Sherm; Bucky used come around, "The Rack" once in awhile. Coming out of "Bensinger's" you had to gamble at something, or starve to death.

              One of my first games gambling at 3C was with Milton Berle, 10 bucks a game, 25 points. I beat 3 in a row, 30 bananas, he stiffed me, the cheap prick!



              Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
              http://mr3cushion.com
              Last edited by mr3cushion; 10-15-2012, 08:40 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by cuesmith View Post


                back in Cincinnati at my poolroom, Beechmont Billiards. Bucky Bell has been a friend of mine (and a player rep for my cues) for many years. Bucky happened to be in

                that morning having his morning coffee and he was hitting balls around on my old Brunswick Anniversary carom table. He made the casual statement that he wished there was someone he

                could gamble with at 3C. He fancied himself as a pretty good 3C player but he said "those damn billiard players are a bunch of stuffed shirts! They won't bet that they're alive!"


                Sherm

                Sherm, I've got a Bucky/3c story for you too....and also I was wondering if you might-could have been in the poolroom on this particular night...

                It was 13 yrs. ago this November, and I was driving from Chicago to Florida to mess around for the winter...I left on a Friday morning and reached/stopped off in Cincinnati that night....I went to the action poolroom when I got there (I don't know if this was your room or not? - I can't recall the name - it had one billiard table about 2/3rds of the way back on the left side iirc ).....it was pretty busy that Friday night, lotta players there - Gary was there, Bucky etc.....Gary asked me to play some One Pocket, and I said no thanks.........I knew Bucky a little bit - we gambled/played some One Pocket a couple of years before, while at some tournament, and we came out even....

                So somehow Bucky and I started talking about 3cushion - both of us of course, totally lying saying how we don't really play the game - we just hack around at it once in awhile.....what Bucky didn't know though, is that my lie was a little bigger than his lie - he thought he was trapping me, specially since it was his local table that I'd never played on before...but truth was, I played 3cushion a little better than him - probably about 3 on 25 better....

                So we wound up playing 2 games, $100 a game, and I won both...afterwards we both had a good laugh together about our lying to each other.....

                I came back the next night and played two different guys (who I didn't know) One Pocket - one fat guy, and one youngish straight-shooter...one of them I came out a coupla games ahead, the other guy I came out a coupla games loser - ending up even for the night.

                - Ghost

                PS, I like Bucky - and he's a good guy to gamble with.
                Last edited by One Pocket Ghost; 10-15-2012, 09:16 PM.
                jrhendy: Ghost does come up with shots that others don't see.

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