Potential rules change discussion - ball on break

[gulfportdoc]

TY2's questions re the break brings up an interesting proposition. It might be worthwhile to have a discussion about whether the 1p.o Official Rules ought to disallow a ball made on the break, and to require it to be spotted up.

The rule has started to be used in some matches and events lately, and this is understandable. The ball on the break (BOB) is not really a skill shot. It's more of an incidental gift.

The BOB is dependent on all balls being perfectly frozen (which is very difficult to achieve) and the conditions of the cloth (which is beyond control of the breaker). Granted, the player has to accomplish the perfect type of split hit to effect the shot, but should one out of three of the required elements of a BOB be sufficient to award the breaker such a tremendous advantage?

The break is already an advantage. Should a game of skill allow for a partially lucky shot to further reward the breaker? Making the 8 on the break in Eight Ball causes it to be spotted up in most official rules. And the 9 on the break in Nine Ball is oftentimes disallowed as well. Neither are skill shots.

Perhaps some of you would share your opinions.

~Doc

 

[jrhendy]

TY2's questions re the break brings up an interesting proposition. It might be worthwhile to have a discussion about whether the 1p.o Official Rules ought to disallow a ball made on the break, and to require it to be spotted up.

The rule has started to be used in some matches and events lately, and this is understandable. The ball on the break (BOB) is not really a skill shot. It's more of an incidental gift.

The BOB is dependent on all balls being perfectly frozen (which is very difficult to achieve) and the conditions of the cloth (which is beyond control of the breaker). Granted, the player has to accomplish the perfect type of split hit to effect the shot, but should one out of three of the required elements of a BOB be sufficient to award the breaker such a tremendous advantage?

The break is already an advantage. Should a game of skill allow for a partially lucky shot to further reward the breaker? Making the 8 on the break in Eight Ball causes it to be spotted up in most official rules. And the 9 on the break in Nine Ball is oftentimes disallowed as well. Neither are skill shots.

Perhaps some of you would share your opinions.

~Doc

I do not think they have been spotting the ball up but have been racking and breaking over.

In most nine ball tournaments here, if you make the nine on the break in the bottom two pockets you spot it up and keep shooting. In ten ball if you make it in any pocket it spots up and you keep shooting.

Would that work in one pocket? Should make for an interesting discussion.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I have been playing with people it is a re-rack and break the balls since we play rack your own. I think it would be a good rule to have it that you have to re-rack and break them again.

 

[lll]

im not for changing the rules
if you want to play re rack in a tourney or gambling thats ok with me
.........
why not re rack and re break if you scratch on the break???
if you wont let the shooter capitalize on his luck
why make him pay for his unluck( i think thats a made up word.. .???? sunny would know...)

 

[azbombero]

If it weren't for "incidental gifts" I'd get beat 8-0 every day. One pocket is like life, S@#t happens. Spot BOB after inning maybe but rerack? Us C players usually buy the house a drink when we BOB.

 

[androd]

For quite a while, with most of the people I play, BOB it's just the other guys shot.

I don't believe frozen racks have anything to do with a BOB.

I believe you rack frozen for your opponent to protect yourself.

I never complain if they're not frozen, they break better for my stroke/style that way.

I recently played Jim/Tom/pilot. He wished to rack his own, I tried to get him to rack for us both, but he would not.

Rod.
P.S. He worked hard at racking, I just threw mine up there. Very little difference.

 

[LSJohn]

For quite a while, with most of the people I play, BOB it's just the other guys shot.

I don't believe frozen racks have anything to do with a BOB.

I believe you rack frozen for your opponent to protect yourself.

I never complain if they're not frozen, they break better for my stroke/style that way.

I recently played Jim/Tom/pilot. He wished to rack his own, I tried to get him to rack for us both, but he would not.

Rod.
P.S. He worked hard at racking, I just threw mine up there. Very little difference.

"Other guy's shot" turns BOB into a disadvantage for the breaker because a ball that would usually be a threat to the opp is gone.

I just threw mine up there. Very little difference

That's my impression too, but I'm not convinced. I try to rack 'em tight just so the opp won't think I'm tryin' to do somethin' to him (or her, every chance I get. )

As to possible rule change, doesn't matter to me either way, but I think re-rack is better than the other ways to handle disallowing BOB.

 

[jtompilot]

I only want to re-rack when I play Tom Wirth He is the best breaker I've ever played and I've plenty of good players. It sure speeds up the game when he makes one on the break

In all fairness why penalize a good break. The only rule change I would agree to is a shot clock for tournaments. I mean really, Alex is ridiculous at times. I think that shot clocked mess with his head at Sand Castle.

 

[LSJohn]

I only want to re-rack when I play Tom Wirth He is the best breaker I've ever played and I've plenty of good players. It sure speeds up the game when he makes one on the break

In all fairness why penalize a good break. The only rule change I would agree to is a shot clock for tournaments. I mean really, Alex is ridiculous at times. I think that shot clocked mess with his head at Sand Castle.

Could be.

Have you seen much of Justin Bergman? I think he's the slowest among the top players.

 

[SactownTom]

BOB is tough, tougher than a lot of 'skill' shots, in fact it is considered 'pure' luck to make on purpose by a lot of players. Is it just a reward for having a really good break?

It just doesn't happen that often. Even with rack manipulation it is a tough shot to make.

A re-rack seems harsh and does take away a potentially good layout after the break. Plus it takes more time. I thought rules to slow down the game were counterproductive.

Loss of turn seems fair, if there has to be a rule change to rule out non-skilled break shots that result in a ball made in your pocket.

It is probably great for the Pros, but us humble mortals need all the breaks we can get.

Just another negotiating point when you have one of those 1 on 1 tournaments.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

I don't like a re-rack at all, for the reasons that have already been stated.

But, that said, if a new rule had to be made re. making the ball on the break (i.e. for a particular tournament for example), I believe that the rule change that I conceived, and have used on occasion, is the best and fairest way to go..and that is...

If the breaker makes the corner ball he gets to keep the ball, but cannot pocket a second ball, and instead has to play a safety for his following shot...

This rule still rewards the breaker for breaking that particular rack well, and making the corner ball, but doesn't let him run several balls, or run out the game because of it, which I think is too great of a reward...and conversely, it's not a good idea to have the opponent get to shoot right after the breaker makes a ball on the break - because he may easily have a free cross-corner bank to shoot, so that rule change would unfairly favor him.........my rule change would be a 'happy medium' option - if a change had to be made.

- Ghost

 

[Jimmy B]

I don't like a re-rack at all, for the reasons that have already been stated.

If a new rule had to be made re. making the ball on the break, I believe that the rule change that I conceived, and have used, is the best and fairest way to go..and that is...

If the breaker makes the corner ball he gets to keep the ball, but cannot pocket a second ball, and instead has to play a safety for his following shot...

This rule still rewards the breaker for making the corner ball, but doesn't let him run several balls, or run out the game because of it, which I think is too great of a reward...my rule is a 'happy medium' among the other choices out there.

- Ghost

Do you mean that after he makes a ball on the break, that he can play any shot that he wants to, as long as he does not pocket a second ball?

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Do you mean that after he makes a ball on the break, that he can play any shot that he wants to, as long as he does not pocket a second ball?

Correct Jimmy.

 

[LSJohn]

I don't like a re-rack at all, for the reasons that have already been stated.

If a new rule had to be made re. making the ball on the break, I believe that the rule change that I conceived, and have used, is the best and fairest way to go..and that is...

If the breaker makes the corner ball he gets to keep the ball, but cannot pocket a second ball, and instead has to play a safety for his following shot...

This rule still rewards the breaker for making the corner ball, but doesn't let him run several balls, or run out the game because of it, which I think is too great of a reward...my rule is a 'happy medium' among the other choices out there.

- Ghost

Good compromise.

 

[jrhendy]

I don't like a re-rack at all, for the reasons that have already been stated.

If a new rule had to be made re. making the ball on the break, I believe that the rule change that I conceived, and have used, is the best and fairest way to go..and that is...

If the breaker makes the corner ball he gets to keep the ball, but cannot pocket a second ball, and instead has to play a safety for his following shot...

This rule still rewards the breaker for making the corner ball, but doesn't let him run several balls, or run out the game because of it, which I think is too great of a reward...my rule is a 'happy medium' among the other choices out there.

- Ghost

This is a good option. I like it better than re racking or spotting a ball.

 

[vapros]

I agree with the guys who are saying to let him keep the ball, but not make any more in that inning. I have a DVD of a match between Alex P and Jose Parica. Alex made a ball on three of his four breaks. I believe he ran 8 and out twice, and made six on the third one. That's either correct or very close. I felt bad for Jose (one of my favorites). He was shooting uphill on the few times he even got to the table. Not good.

 

[keoneyo]

I don't like a re-rack at all, for the reasons that have already been stated.

If a new rule had to be made re. making the ball on the break, I believe that the rule change that I conceived, and have used, is the best and fairest way to go..and that is...

If the breaker makes the corner ball he gets to keep the ball, but cannot pocket a second ball, and instead has to play a safety for his following shot...

This rule still rewards the breaker for breaking that particular rack well, and making the corner ball, but doesn't let him run several balls, or run out the game because of it, which I think is too great of a reward...my rule is a 'happy medium' among the other choices out there.

- Ghost

So if he accidentally pockets a ball after he makes the ball on the break does the ball go on the spot and his inning is over?

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

So if he accidentally pockets a ball after he makes the ball on the break does the ball go on the spot and his inning is over?

Keone...I never had that come up...but I would say that what you've asked/postulated, is for sure the way it should go.

 

[Jeff sparks]

Keone...I never had that come up...but I would say that what you've asked/postulated, is for sure the way it should go.

I'm old school on the BOB, when it's break about, each player has his chance to make that perfect split hit on the break. It's a skill shot IMO, requiring several things to happen in order for that corner ball to pocket, most of which are caused by the skillful execution of the shot by the shooter.

I just believe that what's good for the goose should be good for the gander.
Let's keep the game real fellas, skill, luck, or the rolls, whatever you label it, under any other circumstance other than the BOB is followed by a sigh of relief or a grimace of grief, depending on the recipient thereof. It's just part of the game.

 

[NH Steve]

I don't like a re-rack at all, for the reasons that have already been stated.

If a new rule had to be made re. making the ball on the break, I believe that the rule change that I conceived, and have used, is the best and fairest way to go..and that is...

If the breaker makes the corner ball he gets to keep the ball, but cannot pocket a second ball, and instead has to play a safety for his following shot...

This rule still rewards the breaker for breaking that particular rack well, and making the corner ball, but doesn't let him run several balls, or run out the game because of it, which I think is too great of a reward...my rule is a 'happy medium' among the other choices out there.

- Ghost

I like your suggestion too Ghost, although in general I don't see the need to change the rule -- because most of the time it doesn't come into play that much, and of course it is theoretically the same for both players anyway. It probably makes the biggest difference in short races, like DCC (3) or shorter.

If it was added to our rules I would put it in the "variations" optional section.