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  • #16
    Originally posted by beatle View Post
    the wwyd things are great. you get all the perspectives from a wide range of players in ability and thinking. none are of course as smart or play as well as the hacker but we can live with him.

    the point isnt to try and find what the greatest would play for a shot, but to see and get to feel what your opponents might be doing to you.

    when i play i know what the right shot is for me for the cash. but i need to know what my opponent thinks is the right shot for him so i can put him in the spots i want him to be stuck in. so learning how others think is more important than figuring the best shot for yourself, as that shot depends more on your opponent than you.

    i didnt see billy i. play one pocket as when i saw him he was still a nine ball champ stealing away the girl i had been working on for a few days for a date and ran off and married her in a week. but only him and eddie kelly really thought through the racks they played properly for themselves, giving themselves the best chance to win each game. not just giving the best chance to run out. two different things and make or break being great.
    Great point!

    Originally posted by keoneyo View Post
    What was great about the Eddie Robin's book was that there were different shot selections to every situation. And that even though they were all top players they had differing selections. I think these decisions were based on their personal experience and forte. From Weenie Beenie to The Cannon to Grady and etc they gave a wide field of choices.

    For some these WWYD's are to come to grip with the basic tenets and rules to playing solid one pocket. While we know that great players often break rules in order to get to where they want to go. Innovative and daring will always establish new order but traditional ways might still get you where you want to go.

    It depends on many factors and that's where name calling and one upsmanship prevents growth.

    We should be discussing these factors.
    For example.
    Ball count.
    Tournament or Cash.
    Condition of equipment.
    Condition of Opponent.
    Condition of Hero.
    Level of players.
    Level of Stakes involved. etc.

    If the reason for the WWYD is to show how such a great teacher and master you are then fine but it loses its relevance for me.
    If its to show how knowledgeable you are and others not then Im indifferent.
    And in that sense I can somewhat say that Lou is right in his attitude towards WWYD's.
    Cause I somewhat agree. Unless if we are to really unmask ourselves and look at weakness and strengths then its a cupcake at a party that has no nutrition if devoured and has only temporary gratification.

    What I'd really like to see is a WWYD where you personally didn't know the answer and messed up and wanted to know your other options that could've been more productive.
    What I'd really like to see are situations where you played a top player and not someone who you can give 2 balls to.
    Everybody makes mistakes in our game. Everybody misses. Everybody makes wrong selections. Part of the worth of WWYD's are to find out why.
    ...and another great point.

    Originally posted by wincardona View Post
    You have the luxury to choose the shot that best suits the situation for a player with good to great pocketing skills, others may not. As a player I must adjust my shot selection to suit my ability, obviously my perspective on many things on the pool table have changed. When I respond to a wwyd i'm explaining for the most part what I would do, and the readers must understand that's not may be right for them or another player with a different skill level. I try to use good common sense when explaining situations, unlike a few that rebut (like yourself) and don't understand that there are other options that are just as effective than the ones their advocating. (to each his own) depending on who the shooter is.

    What I have that you don't have is the experience of going from a very top player to a decent player, in doing that I have developed the understanding on how to adjust my game (through necessity) This was done through "trial and error" ..the old fashion way. So, I have been every where you have been and then some, plus I have experienced the process of going from 1 to 100, and then from 100 to ? well back to 50..if you know what I mean. So, you need to slow down on your statements about how older players think as being wrong. One day you'll be "the old dog" not the "big dog"

    In regard to how players thought back in the day, well the best players back in the 70's and 80's thought and played excellent, don't be fooled on how many people talk about how conservative and careful they played, it's just not true. Players back then played very aggressively as well, and there were many players back then that could have more than held their own against any of the one pocket players of today. Needless to mention who they were.

    Dr. Bill
    ...and yet another great point!!!
    "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
    -- Strawberry Brooks

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by LSJohn View Post
      There's an 8-word phrase a few posts above that's at least as faint-worthy.

      John, I must be blind. Don't see it.

      Lou Figueroa

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by lfigueroa View Post
        John, I must be blind. Don't see it.

        Lou Figueroa

        "...I can somewhat say that Lou is right..."

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by NH Steve View Post
          Great point!



          ...and another great point.


          ...and yet another great point!!!
          Good point.

          Comment


          • #20
            Modern players have learned by way of playing that if you pass up on opportunities, what you are actually doing is giving your opponent chances to make great shots, which they will do. Next thing you know, a few shots down the line you are frozen to a ball downtable and the guy just jammed a couple balls near his hole -- and you are PRAYING you had that 8 ball to shoot over again. You don't take a shot where you are the BIG BIG favorite to make and get shape and you are just asking for bad things to happen because you are giving your opponent heart.

            Shooting and staying in that aggressive frame of mind is winning pool, and it is how every player who wants to keep progressing needs to be thinking.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by tylerdurden View Post
              Modern players have learned by way of playing that if you pass up on opportunities, what you are actually doing is giving your opponent chances to make great shots, which they will do. Next thing you know, a few shots down the line you are frozen to a ball downtable and the guy just jammed a couple balls near his hole -- and you are PRAYING you had that 8 ball to shoot over again. You don't take a shot where you are the BIG BIG favorite to make and get shape and you are just asking for bad things to happen because you are giving your opponent heart.

              Shooting and staying in that aggressive frame of mind is winning pool, and it is how every player who wants to keep progressing needs to be thinking.
              one pocket: a game of controlled aggression

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by tylerdurden View Post
                Modern players have learned by way of playing that if you pass up on opportunities, what you are actually doing is giving your opponent chances to make great shots, which they will do. Next thing you know, a few shots down the line you are frozen to a ball downtable and the guy just jammed a couple balls near his hole -- and you are PRAYING you had that 8 ball to shoot over again. You don't take a shot where you are the BIG BIG favorite to make and get shape and you are just asking for bad things to happen because you are giving your opponent heart.

                Shooting and staying in that aggressive frame of mind is winning pool, and it is how every player who wants to keep progressing needs to be thinking.
                Well said!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                  You have the luxury to choose the shot that best suits the situation for a player with good to great pocketing skills, others may not. As a player I must adjust my shot selection to suit my ability, obviously my perspective on many things on the pool table have changed. When I respond to a wwyd i'm explaining for the most part what I would do, and the readers must understand that's not may be right for them or another player with a different skill level. I try to use good common sense when explaining situations, unlike a few that rebut (like yourself) and don't understand that there are other options that are just as effective than the ones their advocating. (to each his own) depending on who the shooter is.

                  What I have that you don't have is the experience of going from a very top player to a decent player, in doing that I have developed the understanding on how to adjust my game (through necessity) This was done through "trial and error" ..the old fashion way. So, I have been every where you have been and then some, plus I have experienced the process of going from 1 to 100, and then from 100 to ? well back to 50..if you know what I mean. So, you need to slow down on your statements about how older players think as being wrong. One day you'll be "the old dog" not the "big dog"

                  In regard to how players thought back in the day, well the best players back in the 70's and 80's thought and played excellent, don't be fooled on how many people talk about how conservative and careful they played, it's just not true. Players back then played very aggressively as well, and there were many players back then that could have more than held their own against any of the one pocket players of today. Needless to mention who they were.

                  Dr. Bill
                  Billy, when YOU play you are a shooter not a mover. Im not knocking you its just a fact. What did I tell you after you played Jerry? I told you that you can't try to shoot with these young guys anymore, that you have to use all that knowledge that you have accumulated after playing for over 50 years.. if you are not going to use the knowledge whats the point of having it? Now then on here and on accustats you will say bank the 10 instead of cutting the 8 ball and you will list your reasons.. I can turn around and argue why the 10 is the better shot in this situation, I can really easily successfully argue both sides.. This however is WWYD when under the gun and You and I would both cut the 8 ball in and get on the 2 next and then be banking at game ball.. its that simple.. I have played you and watched you play enough to know what you would do in this situation especially when you have to use a bridge to shoot it... THE 8 BALL IS A HANGER AND YOU KNOW IT

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by onepockethacker View Post
                    Judging by some of the answers of the more "seasoned players" on this site and their thinking process, Lou is right about one thing.. If the old time greats had that same thought process in regards to what shots/style to choose and they played those shots TODAY against TODAY'S players... TODAY'S players would run right over them However if you could bring the old time greats in their prime forward into today, I believe they would see how the game has evolved and thus they would do what all champions do... adjust their games accordingly and become more offensive and would end up being great today also.

                    A few years back I was playing an "old school" player. We were talking through the game and at one point I said, "I gotta shoot the bank here (off the end rail)." And he said no, "Unless you can hit them as accurate as Shane." And I said, ______, there is no one I play -- no one -- that isn't shooting this bank at me. This is the way the game is played nowadays." He remained unmoved by my argument.

                    The old school way was far too defensive. Not saying there weren't some shooters, just talking about the prevailing style.

                    Lou Figueroa

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Last year I played a very good onepocket player, he gave me $300 to $100 and I played him even. I played as tight as possible, wouldn't shoot a shot unless I was a 4 to 1 favorite. after 45 minutes he blew up and smashed the balls ,I won the game. Old school won the game. Never let him have a shot for 45 minutes. This guy plays me 11-5 and the breaks and he is the favorite. So old school can win but it depends on the player , the younger they are the more they shoot at you. By the way my shot making is horrible. The reason I mention my shot making is horrible is to be a 4-1 favorite on a shot the object ball has to be very close to me and close to the hole. I wouldn't shoot the 8 ball because it is too far away.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        There was a convo similiar to this subject on AZB forums:

                        http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=391052
                        YOU CAN BET THE SUN, MOON AND THE STARS!!!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by FastEddieF. View Post
                          Last year I played a very good onepocket player, he gave me $300 to $100 and I played him even. I played as tight as possible, wouldn't shoot a shot unless I was a 4 to 1 favorite. after 45 minutes he blew up and smashed the balls ,I won the game. Old school won the game. Never let him have a shot for 45 minutes. This guy plays me 11-5 and the breaks and he is the favorite. So old school can win but it depends on the player , the younger they are the more they shoot at you. By the way my shot making is horrible. The reason I mention my shot making is horrible is to be a 4-1 favorite on a shot the object ball has to be very close to me and close to the hole. I wouldn't shoot the 8 ball because it is too far away.
                          Sounds like me on a golf course. I never play golf, never hit balls, but when my long time friends want to play we bet small and I get two strokes a hole and we have a blast. It's Very tough for them to win, and at times I get a ten or eleven or Thirteen, on a hole but if I golf eighteen, there's a chance/good one, that I will par one hole .
                          Bill Meacham
                          WBT
                          www.worldbilliardtour.com
                          no link....

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