Varner vs. Pagulayan

[vapros]

The 5 ball for sure, and then the 9 ball. And then look around.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I like coming off of the right side of the 8 ball and putting CB somewhere near the 13/14 in that little catcher's mitt...

That's the shot I like if the 5-9-7/8 doesn't look right. Simple to shoot even at that distance off the rail, 8 ball gets more makeable, CB nestles naturally into a big ol' catcher's mitt. Makes me feel all warm and safe just thinking about it.

pj
chgo

 

[NH Steve]

I like kicking at the 14 or 13 much better than rolling it. Kicking is just about foolproof except for maybe not getting a rail which is not a big deal. Rolling at one of those could leave you to the mercy of the table.

Shooting the 5 leads to the nine, then what?

Also, kicking provides the easiest bridging technique.

I was looking at the kick to the 13 or 14 too. As long as your speed is good, it looks foolproof, and most likely you would catch a rail too.

I see things that could go wrong with shooting the 5. One being, you could catch the point of the side pocket with your cue ball if you plan to follow down. That would definitely expose the 13 if you missed the 5. Of course, it would improve your position if you made the 5 lol.

 

[gulfportdoc]

In keeping with the 24-hour Cardone rule, it's time to wrap this one up. Y'all had some really good suggestions. Like me, it didn't occur to any of you what Varner did. He surmised that shooting the 5 in would leave him only the 9, so he quickly decided to shoot it rail first:



This left him a nice angle where he could draw around the 3 to continue his run:



That 5 ball would be very difficult for me to attempt, shooting off the point. And if it DID occur to me to shoot rail first, I probably wouldn't have. I'd most likely have shot the 14, and left the CB behind the cluster.

~Doc

 

[lll]

with the object ball that far away from the pocket not sure i would go rail first
thanks for the wwyd doc

 

[Jeff sparks]

Good shot for Nick,
Can't argue with his results, He apparently had extremely high confidence in making the 5 ball, cause if he woulda missed it, the way the balls lay, he surely would have lost the game, of given up a big lead...

I would probably still kick off the foot rail at the 14, and play from there... I know I can execute that shot easily...and in the end, isn't that what we all should do, choose the best shots we can find that carry a high level of confidence for us and ease of execution that meets with our individual skill set...

After all, oft times it's poor execution of shot choices outside our individual pay grade which cause the errors that lead to losing the game... Just sayin... Playing within your skill set, you'll probably win more games...JMO

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...if it DID occur to me to shoot rail first, I probably wouldn't have.

It did occur to me, but I didn't think I'd shoot it - too risky at my skill level. On the other hand, looking at Nick's outcome it doesn't look like I would have left much offensively if I missed.

pj
chgo

 

[darmoose]

I would probably still kick off the foot rail at the 14, and play from there... I know I can execute that shot easily...and in the end, isn't that what we all should do, choose the best shots we can find that carry a high level of confidence for us and ease of execution that meets with our individual skill set...

After all, oft times it's poor execution of shot choices outside our individual pay grade which cause the errors that lead to losing the game... Just sayin... Playing within your skill set, you'll probably win more games...JMO

You Betcha, Jeff.

 

[Kybanks]

Good shot for Nick,
Can't argue with his results, He apparently had extremely high confidence in making the 5 ball, cause if he woulda missed it, the way the balls lay, he surely would have lost the game, of given up a big lead...

I would probably still kick off the foot rail at the 14, and play from there... I know I can execute that shot easily...and in the end, isn't that what we all should do, choose the best shots we can find that carry a high level of confidence for us and ease of execution that meets with our individual skill set...

After all, oft times it's poor execution of shot choices outside our individual pay grade which cause the errors that lead to losing the game... Just sayin... Playing within your skill set, you'll probably win more games...JMO

I agree, I would have shot my usual conservative shot.

 

[gulfportdoc]

I think this example supports the premise of the other Varner thread: that Nick is not as conservative as his reputation would indicate. In this case he saw the opportunity to make a nice little run, and he took it, even though there were several reasonable safeties available.

It's interesting though. Some of our guys who are known for aggressive shot choices all of a sudden become Mr. Conservative in this layout...

~Doc

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

It did occur to me, but I didn't think I'd shoot it - too risky at my skill level. On the other hand, looking at Nick's outcome it doesn't look like I would have left much offensively if I missed.

pj
chgo

Maybe not that far off of your skill level ----->

Do you happen to remember that about 2-3 months ago, before we started playing, I set up a somewhat similar kick...I had the object ball 2 diamonds up from the corner pocket and about 1-1/2" out from the long rail (making it harder to judge than with it just off the rail), with the cueball lined up at a straight in angle, and 3/4ths of a table length away...

The only way to get shape on the second ball, that I had set up on the foot rail was to shoot rail first...then I told you that it's a good shot to develop a feel for, so when it comes up in a game you'll feel comfortable shooting it...

So then I shot it once and made it on the first try..then I set it up again and told you to try it - and you made it on the first try......so we then decided that we didn't need to practice that shot anymore...:heh

- Ghost

 

[lll]

Maybe not that far off of your skill level ----->

Do you happen to remember that about 2-3 months ago, before we started playing, I set up a somewhat similar kick...I had the object ball 2 diamonds up from the corner pocket and about 1-1/2" out from the long rail (making it harder to judge than with it just off the rail), with the cueball lined up at a straight in angle, and 3/4ths of a table length away...

The only way to get shape on the second ball, that I had set up on the foot rail was to shoot rail first...then I told you that it's a good shot to develop a feel for, so when it comes up in a game you'll feel comfortable shooting it...

So then I shot it once and made it on the first try..then I set it up again and told you to try it - and you made it on the first try......so we then decided that we didn't need to practice that shot anymore...:heh

- Ghost

EDIT
SEE POST 35 FOR A BETTER DIAGRAM
at ghosts request here is a diagram of the shot ghost is talking about
although the aim point in this diagram is close to the point its the idea that counts
I aim these with the "mirror system" which I tried to show in the diagram
anyone with questions please pm me
...
ghost I hope this is what you wanted

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

at ghosts request here is a diagram of the shot ghost is talking about
although the aim point in this diagram is close to the point its the idea that counts
I aim these with the "mirror system" which I tried to show in the diagram
anyone with questions please pm me
...
ghost I hope this is what you wanted
View attachment 16867

Thanks Larry - it's a little off though = the cueball should be 1 diamond closer to the object ball - and you have portrayed the shot as having an angle from the cueball to the object ball, but it should be just about straight in instead.

- Ghost

 

[Island Drive]

let me explin my diagram
the red lines show
if the cue ball replaces the stripe he can make the 13 and he can get to the 9
if i hit the 14 and roll forward alittle i hide them ing they
thats my shot and i think nick also
EDIT
I am shooting the 5 like pat
View attachment 16858

The beauty of the five I see is from two perspectives. 1st, If nicky misses and lays whitey on the long rail, then his cue ball position forces a trap for Alex, because he can only cue high. Now if Nick makes it, the cut on the 9 now allows the cue ball to come under the 7 naturally to continue his inning.

 

[lll]

Thanks Larry - it's a little off though = the cueball should be 1 diamond closer to the object ball - and you have portrayed the shot as having an angle from the cueball to the object ball, but it should be just about straight in instead.

- Ghost

this is closer

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I aim these with the "mirror system" which I tried to show in the diagram

Larry, here's my version of the mirror system for shallow kicks (set up opposite your shot for comparison).

The CB doesn't rebound at an equal angle for these shots (because of the follow on a rolling CB), so I measure from the ghost CB's center to the cushion nose (instead of to the "gutter" ) to compensate. Double that larger distance to get the aimpoint on the rail.

pj
chgo

P.S. Not saying you showed it wrong, just showing the details.

View attachment 47925

 

[lll]

pat
i too do it like you posted taking the mirror from the ghost ball center
i drew my diagram out fast and alittle sloppy.....
thanks for clarifying that