Dennis Orcollo vs Tony Chohan - "The Big One"

Jeff sparks

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There's no questioning his pool mastery. He's certainly in the top of the heap of the pool world.

As far as "honor", you couldn't tell it by me. You'll have to ask Rob Melrose about how D.O. acted when he realized that Rob had him trapped a few years ago up in Tunica. I was there. He whined and cried like a little baby until Rob gave him some of his money back. I've had a poor opinion of him since, although I've never talked with the man.

~Doc

Doc,

"Honor" in my previous post, simply refers to him not "catching" or "pitching." I just meant you could bet either side and feel confident that the game was on the square... I was told this by a reliable source, someone that is well acquainted with Dennis, and someone who's opinion has been reliable for me in the past...

From what you say though, his "character" was certainly questionable a while back, and may still be for all I know... True "character" seems to show through in times of adversity, and losing, ( getting trapped ) apparently reveled a shortcoming of his...
 

LSJohn

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until Rob gave him some of his money back.

~Doc

Question, Doc. Was this posted money that Rob pocketed because he legitimately felt he had won when Dennis quit, or was it money Rob had already won and pocketed before the dispute?

Trying to give benefit of doubt, I can understand (if it exists) a cultural understanding that quitting is permitted by either player any time even is reached in an on-top match. Dennis had played very little or none in the US before 2006.

Was it just "You've got me trapped so I want to quit and get my money back?"
 

gulfportdoc

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Question, Doc. Was this posted money that Rob pocketed because he legitimately felt he had won when Dennis quit, or was it money Rob had already won and pocketed before the dispute?

Trying to give benefit of doubt, I can understand (if it exists) a cultural understanding that quitting is permitted by either player any time even is reached in an on-top match. Dennis had played very little or none in the US before 2006.

Was it just "You've got me trapped so I want to quit and get my money back?"
As I recall they were well into the set, Rob was way ahead, and Dennis realized he'd been had. He quit in disgust, so Rob took the money off the light because it was his winnings. That's when the whining/begging started. It was no cultural misunderstanding. But you'd have to have Rob tell it.

~Doc
 

LSJohn

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As I recall they were well into the set, Rob was way ahead, and Dennis realized he'd been had. He quit in disgust, so Rob took the money off the light because it was his winnings. That's when the whining/begging started. It was no cultural misunderstanding. But you'd have to have Rob tell it.

~Doc

Yikes.

That is bad.

Thanks
 

cincy_kid

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Since most believe Orcullo is a shoo-in, this is going to put a tremendous amount of pressure on him. Tony is the underdog, so he'll try harder. Will the pressure affect Orcullo's performance? We'll find out in two months...

~Doc

Good question Doc ~

I was thinking that when Dennis played Frost, I feel most (myself included) thought that Frost was the favorite. Dennis had nothing to lose being the underdog but he sure played like a champion, nobody can argue that.

I will say I think it may have been a different outcome if they would have had a shot clock but I digress.

With Tony being the underdog on this match, maybe Dennis will play differently when everyone is expecting him to win.

I will do a $50 mailbox money bet if anyone is interested and you get to pick who you want:

Dennis - 7
or
Tony + 7

(If final is 40-33 its a push)

First one to confirm gets it.

PS - if there is a shot clock, bet is off. In fact I will take Tony even up if they put a clock in play 60/sec per shot maximum.
 

Wayne

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As I recall they were well into the set, Rob was way ahead, and Dennis realized he'd been had. He quit in disgust, so Rob took the money off the light because it was his winnings. That's when the whining/begging started. It was no cultural misunderstanding. But you'd have to have Rob tell it.

~Doc

I am pretty sure that was not the case.

I believe they were part way through a set that Rob had been winning but Dennis got even and then quit. It was the middle of a set so per the laws of pool gambling if you want to quit at that point you are conceding and you lose. Dennis did not seem aware of this fact which resulted in the controversy.
 

LSJohn

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I am pretty sure that was not the case.

I believe they were part way through a set that Rob had been winning but Dennis got even and then quit. It was the middle of a set so per the laws of pool gambling if you want to quit at that point you are conceding and you lose. Dennis did not seem aware of this fact which resulted in the controversy.

I hope you're right. That's what I was guessing.
 

Jeff sparks

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Good question Doc ~

I was thinking that when Dennis played Frost, I feel most (myself included) thought that Frost was the favorite. Dennis had nothing to lose being the underdog but he sure played like a champion, nobody can argue that.

I will say I think it may have been a different outcome if they would have had a shot clock but I digress.

With Tony being the underdog on this match, maybe Dennis will play differently when everyone is expecting him to win.

I will do a $50 mailbox money bet if anyone is interested and you get to pick who you want:

Dennis - 7
or
Tony + 7

(If final is 40-33 its a push)

First one to confirm gets it.

PS - if there is a shot clock, bet is off. In fact I will take Tony even up if they put a clock in play 60/sec per shot maximum.

That's a good job of handicapping there Kid... I have it clocked at Dennis wins 4 out of 7 games over the entire match... So...Final.. 40/30 Dennis... But I wouldn't put it up for a pick em like you did... Good offer, and for those who like Tony even, it's really good...
 

Jeff sparks

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykM-2QLqCwQ

Here is a video of the incident (it is covered in the first 2 minutes). I was correct the score was tied 8-8 when Orcollo decided to quit.

What caused the rub... Seems if the score was tied, and Dennis quit, the problem was over something other than Dennis feeling trapped... Wonder what it was...??? In the video it's hard to tell what it's about, but Dennis is pointing at the table and saying something but I can't hear what... Stories sometimes do get mixed up over time and details/facts become blurry and reputations and character can become unduly tarnished...

Old school rule was if you played a freeze out, it was played to the finish..period... Only way to call it off was by a mutual agreement... This appeared to be a race, and I don't know what the modern gambling rule is, but if I were playing a race with someone it would have to be mutual consent to end the match, unless it's a common practice today to quit anytime you want when the score is tied...

It looked like Dennis quit because of something that had happened earlier in the match that he didn't agree with and when he tied up the score, he chose to end the match... I can see something like that taking place and being justified, where as quitting in the middle of a match because you believe you made a bad bet would be totally unjustified and not acceptable... Jmo
 

Jeff sparks

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Thanks Dustin,
I read the whole thread... Interesting...

Looks like Dennis was wrong, and Rob just let him off the hook...lite...

Unheard of in the old days, and not a chance of getting a red cent back...

If he unjointed and refused to play due to the fact that he matched up poorly...it's a forfeit... Rob gets the cash and there's an end to it...next case...
 

cincy_kid

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That's a good job of handicapping there Kid... I have it clocked at Dennis wins 4 out of 7 games over the entire match... So...Final.. 40/30 Dennis... But I wouldn't put it up for a pick em like you did... Good offer, and for those who like Tony even, it's really good...

Thanks Jeff ~

I figure if you break it down to multiple races to 5, if Dennis beats Tony 5-4 that puts it at 40-32 so its in the ball park.
 

LSJohn

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Thanks Dustin,
I read the whole thread... Interesting...

Looks like Dennis was wrong, and Rob just let him off the hook...lite...

Unheard of in the old days, and not a chance of getting a red cent back...

If he unjointed and refused to play due to the fact that he matched up poorly...it's a forfeit... Rob gets the cash and there's an end to it...next case...

Besides wondering what Dennis was talking about at the beginning when he was pointing at the table and seemingly complaining, there's still one other thing I might not understand.

Rob said that when Dennis saw him take the money off the light and put it in his pocket, "he couldn't get his cue back together fast enough." If that means what it sounds like -- Dennis was willing to play after he saw that -- then maybe Rob "wins" the set anyway on the technicality of Dennis unscrewing, but not because Dennis refused to play. If I've got that right, and Dennis was ready to resume, it sounds like even though Rob felt he had the nuts, there's a fair buy-out price to both players for not playing it. $150 sounds cheap if Rob's confidence is justified, and maybe very generous on his part, but not unreasonable other than the price.

I wouldn't tell an opponent he had forfeited the set because of unscrewing, if he was really willing to resume, would you?
 

Wayne

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Besides wondering what Dennis was talking about at the beginning when he was pointing at the table and seemingly complaining, there's still one other thing I might not understand.

They were using coins to keep score. Dennis was pointing at the 2 coins and saying it was 8 to 8 (with the idea they were even and it was ok to quit), he pointed to the 2 coins a couple of times for this reason (he wasn't complaining about anything regarding the table or the game, he was just trying to get out of the game since it was a tie score at that point).
 

Jeff sparks

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They were using coins to keep score. Dennis was pointing at the 2 coins and saying it was 8 to 8 (with the idea they were even and it was ok to quit), he pointed to the 2 coins a couple of times for this reason (he wasn't complaining about anything regarding the table or the game, he was just trying to get out of the game since it was a tie score at that point).

If Rob had agreed to call it off, then that would have been fine, there's an end to it... but if you believe what Rob posted about wanting to continue, then it's cut and dried, he either screws his stick back together, continues, and according to Rob, takes his ass whipping, or walks off and forfeits the posted cash...

Now if he did in fact screw his stick back together and decided to continue, then I really don't understand why Rob ( having the nuts as he said ) did not just continue and snap off the dime... If it came down as Rob described it in his post, with him calling Dennis out in the hallway and settling for $150.00 then I don't get the problem... IMO if Rob hadn't settled, then the match would have continued to a conclusion...however, since he decided to settle for whatever reasons, he's got no gripe coming...

Now is it ethical to quit and expect your opponent to just so OK we will call it off since you want to... Hell no, it's not... It has to be a mutual agreement... Rob was right IMO, it was an unethical move to try an get out of a trap... And when he saw that wasn't going to fly, he decided to continue.. This probably gave pause to Rob, disrupting his rhythm and perhaps causing him to get off track and ultimately decide to take a settlement... Only Rob knows the answer to that...

Did it affect Dennis's reputation as an end result... With some people, definitely.. With gambling in the pool room, not so much, he stays in action... Perhaps the incident gives caution to his adversaries when matching up, and perhaps it did tarnish his reputation overall among his peers, but even if they keep him at arms length when going to dinner, they still try to match up with him and get the money in pool room...

Is a signed contract now required before playing a match? What happened to being a man and accepting the fact that you made a bad game? Take your punishment, try and learn from it, and move on...

As a larger than life figure in the world of pockets billiards and a representative of the game at the highest level, Dennis should be, at the very least made aware of how weak this comes off to the viewing public and the professional alike... If you're gonna be a champion, with all due respect, act the part...
 

sappo

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I think its important to always review the rules you are playing by prior to the start of play, like does the base of object ball or entire ball have to be over the head string line to be eligible to be shot and whats a foul or not a foul if the cue ball and object ball are very close together. etc. I guess now included should be what rule are you playing if one player wants to quit.

Better to always discuss up front to avoid these types of problems. keith
 

1pwannabe

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Watching Justin getting beat by Dennis in this match today at Buffalo's and I'm seriously thinking that Tony is going to need some weight.:eek:
 

povpool

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Dennis beat Justin

Dennis beat Justin

On the flip-side of that, just yesterday Roy Francisco was streaming Dennis practicing with his phone and mentioned something about Tony beating Efren playing even 1-pocket the same day. I've no idea how long the session was, for how much or to how many games, but you can't count Tony out of action with anyone.

Oh, but yes, Tony was forfeited the next day as a 'no show' for his match in the tournament but, I digress...
 

povpool

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This week in the Rocket City One Pocket event, Tony Chohan defeated Efren Reyes, Corey Deuel, Josh Roberts, Francisco Bustamante and in the finals, beat Alex Pagulayan.

Congratulations to Tony for 1st place!

"The Big One" is on the horizon...
 
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