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You vs. opponent 21

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  • #31
    Originally posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
    This is a wwyd that I put up a few years ago, and I thought I'd put it up again with all of the additional members that we have now...last time it was up we had some lively disagreeing on what was the right thing to do - especially between Dr. Billy and 'Freddy the Beard'

    It's your shot --- your pocket is at the top left --- score is 7 to 4, you're ahead, and you're playing in a hill-hill tournament match against a strong player --- the pockets are 4-3/8" --- so wwyd - go for the win right now (shooting which ball?) or give him his 14ball? ----->
    (haven't read through all the posts....)

    shooting outta the corner that way.....roll in the 14.....duh.....

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    • #32
      I look at this like a game of nine ball, and the nine ball is that 11 right in the center of the table. And I ain't gonna play safe myself. Buddy hall used to say during his commentaries that when you get ready to shoot, do just that (meaning forget about everything but pocketing the ball), and I've profited from that and that's what I'd do here with the 11... just get it in the hole the best way I know how, which for me would be a slightly jacked up stop shot. Even if I was playing the best ball striker in the world, I'd like myself getting back to the table even if I miss here.
      Last edited by El Chapo; 08-07-2017, 04:32 AM.

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      • #33
        You vs. opponent 21

        Originally posted by Miller View Post
        (haven't read through all the posts....)



        shooting outta the corner that way.....roll in the 14.....duh.....



        Yep. Me too.
        Mitch needs to remember to play the score and that it's better to win than to look like a hero.

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        • #34
          Looks like an awful big pocket there with the 14 in the jaws and he's not likely shooting it straight on, but rather a bank combo, so if he makes 1 he's almost a sure bet to make at least 2. I'm slow rolling the 14 here if I can get to the table fast enough.
          Renegade

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          • #35
            Originally posted by beatle View Post
            larry against anyone i would shoot the shot that had the best combination of making it and if missed hanging it up. i think the straight in, would be that .

            or if shooting harder, then simply the shot that had the best chance of going in combined with leave. that would be the cut shot.

            and the weaker the opponent the less chance he will make more balls than just the hanger on the 14.

            the more open the balls are, the more you should lean towards shooting the 14.

            the decision is not a simple one depending on extraneous factors.
            thanks beatle

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            • #36
              After years of deliberation...lol. I have finally come to the conclusion that there is no blanket answer to the question on when it's right to shoot. There are just too many considerations one could have to make an intelligent decision. I'm not just talking about who your opponent is or what size pockets the table has but also how efficient one is with certain type of shots, not only in terms of accuracy but speed as well. For some cutting the 1ball would be the best choice because of how consistently one would be with getting the 1ball to the pocket or end rail without leaving a return shot if missed. I believe the choice of options should be between the 1ball or 14ball, playing the 11ball imo shouldn't be the best choice for most, but then again not to be ruled totally against.

              My first inclination would be to pocket the 14ball but if I were confident with the speed of the 1ball choice then I would lean to that option.

              It mostly depends on how we feel about whatever decision we choose, that imo is the correct shot.

              Dr. Bill
              Last edited by wincardona; 08-07-2017, 08:35 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                After years of deliberation...lol. I have finally come to the conclusion that there is no blanket answer to the question on when it's right to shoot. There are just too many considerations one could have to make an intelligent decision. I'm not just talking about who your opponent is or what size pockets the table has but also how efficient one is with certain type of shots, not only in terms of accuracy but speed as well. For some cutting the 1ball would be the best choice because of how consistently one would be with getting the 1ball to the pocket or end rail without leaving a return shot if missed. I believe the choice of options should be between the 1ball or 14ball, playing the 11ball imo shouldn't be the best choice for most, but then again not to be ruled totally against.

                My first inclination would be to pocket the 14ball but if I were confident with the speed of the 1ball choice then I would lean to that option.

                It mostly depends on how we feel about whatever decision we choose, that imo is the correct shot.

                Dr. Bill
                There's also another consideration one should have when choosing the best shot for the situation and that would be the degree of difficulty for your opponent on playing position for the ball that would follow the missed ball, whether in this instance it be the 1ball bank to the 11ball, or the 11ball bank to the 1ball. Understanding that in this situation then that would be another reason to soft roll the 11ball, because playing position on the 1ball off the 11ball is more difficult then playing position for the 11ball off the 1ball bank.

                Something else to think about, not that we don't already have enough to think about, never the less, very helpful if I don't say so myself.

                DR. Bill

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                • #38
                  Needing 1 ball against a really good player makes the decision the most difficult IMO because the hardest ball to make for most players is their out ball, especially when a miss carries consequences, such as here... It's a catch 22 situation, where you could always look back and say you wish you had shot the other option on the occasions where you ended up losing the game...

                  Against a player with skill sets about like mine, I'm rolling on the 14 every single time...

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
                    I've heard that a shot with the OB halfway to the pocket requires the most precision - and opposite corner shots like this are the most demanding version of that.

                    But don't be nervous.

                    pj
                    chgo
                    I agree that an end rail straight in shot requires the most precision when the object ball is in the middle of the table and kiddie corner to the target pocket.

                    It is based on distance.

                    On a 9 foot table there are 100 inches (8 feet 4 inches) from the head rail location of the corner pocket to the foot rail location of the corner pocket. But there are 110 inches (9 feet 2 inches) from the head rail location of the corner pocket to the kiddie corner foot rail location of the corner pocket.

                    I would shoot the 14 and leave my opponent in the jaws of his pocket. It would not be a consideration of who I am playing, whether it was Efren Reyes in his prime or a weak player getting 3, hit and the pick. It would be based entirely on the location of the cue ball and the three remaining balls in play.

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                    • #40
                      With situations like this it comes down to "how do I feel about shooting for the win". If my confidence is high than I see no fault in going for it but if there is any doubt in my mind about my making this shot then it's time to pass and pocket the 14.

                      Making the 14 here can never be considered a poor option but it does put your opponent back the table where anything can still happen. Shooting and making either the one or 11 ends the game immediately and that is always the main objective. So bottom line is if you elect to shoot for the win, miss and sell out, be prepared to face the music and blame no one but yourself.

                      Tom

                      "Controlled Aggression" trwirth369@gmail.com

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Nick B View Post
                        Why firm/hard? There is a lot of value in hanging it in your pocket. As long as you don't bring the ball up more than 4-6" on the side rail he has no return other than getting rid of the ball. Firm just gives him another ball to possibly get shape on after potting the hanger.
                        Nick, my thinking is that it's easier to hang the 1 than it is the 11. Therefore the 11 is probably best shot a little firmer than the 1 would be, so as not to leave a cross-corner. NB: I wouldn't shoot either one.

                        ~Doc

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                          After years of deliberation...lol. I have finally come to the conclusion that there is no blanket answer to the question on when it's right to shoot. There are just too many considerations one could have to make an intelligent decision. I'm not just talking about who your opponent is or what size pockets the table has but also how efficient one is with certain type of shots, not only in terms of accuracy but speed as well. For some cutting the 1ball would be the best choice because of how consistently one would be with getting the 1ball to the pocket or end rail without leaving a return shot if missed. I believe the choice of options should be between the 1ball or 14ball, playing the 11ball imo shouldn't be the best choice for most, but then again not to be ruled totally against.
                          My first inclination would be to pocket the 14ball but if I were confident with the speed of the 1ball choice then I would lean to that option.
                          It mostly depends on how we feel about whatever decision we choose, that imo is the correct shot. Dr. Bill
                          Bill, this post is grammatically superb...

                          ~Doc

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I don't care how well I feel about going for either the 1 or the 11. Regardless of my opponent's skill level, I will always go with what I deem to be the right choice from a percentages standpoint: pocket his 14 and leave him near his pocket with the remaining balls and the score both favoring you.

                            Everyone is assuming the ball will be in the jaws of the pocket if missed. I say you're more likely to leave an easy cross bank if you do, which he'll almost surely make right after dropping the 14. With the score at 7-6, he will likely leave himself a straight-back giving him the opportunity to tie the game. You already know exactly how that feels because countless times you've been on both sides of such a predicament.

                            It's not like you're trying to shoot your way out of trouble; you're inviting trouble.
                            Last edited by OneRock; 08-07-2017, 10:38 AM.

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                            • #44
                              I like hitting the 14 hard on the r/s with over spin, and remove it.
                              Bill Meacham
                              WBT
                              www.worldbilliardtour.com
                              no link....

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by gulfportdoc View Post

                                Bill, this post is grammatically superb...

                                ~Doc
                                Let me pinch myself to make sure I'm awake. Are you sure you agree with me? That's a first.

                                On a side note Doc, I'm having some pretty bad pain originating from my sacrorilliac joint. It feels like the pain is radiating down the left side of my left leg, almost like "to the bone pain, if you know what I mean. Had a cat scan taken about a month ago going to my doctor today to hear what he thinks. Any suggestions?


                                DR. Bill

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