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  • 2019 and so on tournament qualifications thread

    Ok, here is my proposed ideas to take care of this mess. First off, lets be realistic here. It takes a month to get room proposals turned in and any kind of poll around here takes a month. So that's at least two months. So these are my proposals to make this easier:

    I think we need to seriously consider making this tournament last two days only. Sat-Sunday. This is just a idea, don't freak out on me yet. Cutting the races down will accomplish this. This will be more inclusive for our members who cannot afford it or actually work, because right now its its such a crazy long, time consuming, expensive trip. Its also a heavier burden on the rooms, locals and members in general. If you get there early like some of us it also gives you more time to match up or see the sights etc

    Ok, for your consideration:

    1. Set the date the same weekend every year. I think we already know that but lets get that set right away

    2. Any interested parties who want to propose their local room up for the next tournament will have 45 days from the end of the members tournament to submit their room. This should include your legwork verifying with the owner the dates and our tournament guidelines, players qualifications etc. Negotiating table time, checking room rates etc should be part of your proposal. (This gives everybody two weeks to settle back in after the tournament and 30 days to get their proposals submitted. That leaves 10-1/2 months)

    3. Have a 30 day poll and elect the room. Only verified members should be allowed to vote and as usual please don't vote if you can't attend. (That leaves 9 -1/2 months until the next tournament starts.

    4: in the next two weeks our local representative verify's again with the winning owner, gets the fliers printed out and posted in the room ASAP. Fliers should clearly state our member qualifications, required membership guidelines to participate and of course the dates etc. (this leaves 9 months until play starts)

    5. Qualification guidelines proposed as follows. You must be a verified member of at least 7 months. (that gives the locals 60 days to become a verified member...) Verified membership should be as simple as having another verified member of at least one year and 50 posts propose you for verification and personally vouch for you with Steve or his proxy ( this is common among the Elks/Eagles etc. but usually its two) Member must have 21 posts to show they are participating. (that's only 3 a month) New members MUST introduce themselves in the new member area that way if there is a problem we will all know about it imediatly. .

    6. Special considerations: Of course there are people who have contributed greatly here who might not post much like Steve mentioned such as the Greg Sullivan's etc. etc. There is no way we should shut these folks out should they want to play. An easy way to do this for our members is to take a vote.
    I propose any special consideration player not verified at least 7 months and that has less than 21 posts should be proposed to the membership at least 45 days in advance of the tournament. A 7 day poll should take place and at least 70% of the verified members should approve of the proposed individual for them to play.

    7: if it looks like a new member is say posting rymes 21 times in a row to punch up their post counts, not introducing themselves to the membership
    after being asked by the membership etc, they should be reported to Steve or his proxy and it should be up to Steve to remove their verification status. This should also take care of any members who before tournament time have proven unworthy of verification or membership status in general.


    Ok, thats my proposals to reduce the tournament problems
    Last edited by crabbcatjohn; 05-22-2018, 01:06 AM. Reason: took out some of the fluff and streamlined it. I'm finished

  • #2
    verification status

    I think Steve should consider using members verification status as more of a privilege on here. Loose your verification status, loose your right to play in tournaments. I think in the future if we use some of the basic guidelines above, we could also use them as guidelines for local .org tournaments. If a poster is warned or outed as a person unbecoming the site or bad sports at our tournaments, they loose their verification status first, then he could go on with the usual suspensions etc. if necessary.
    You could also loose your verification status by not posting. Steve or his proxy could review the verification members lists each year and if you haven't posted a certain number of times in the calendar year you loose your verification status. If you don't post much you could also stay verified by a financial contribution or player sponsor donation. etc...A sticky could be applied to tell what it takes to become and stay a verified member so its clear. This should also encourage members to post more, and clears up any complaints about people who don't participate in the forums being allowed to play in the tournaments..... Just another idea
    Last edited by crabbcatjohn; 05-22-2018, 01:30 AM. Reason: added content. i'm done

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you for your serious thought put into this.

      For background information:
      The Verified level of membership here was started simply out of the need to know if a member was a real person, for HOF voting purposes. In the beginning we had new members joining simply to vote -- maybe they were personal friends of a candidate or a relative lol. So I tried different things -- a New Member category, for brand new members, that automatically rolled over to a regular member after 30 days or something like that. New Members could not vote.

      The Verified membership has always been very less than perfect, because it is not always so easy to know who an online poster is in real life. And to a certain extent, that is even OK -- as long as it does not seem to be being abused. Some ways of verifying have always been easy -- I meet someone in person (such as at DCC or another event), or they call me or email me to initiate a real relationship. Or they donate money or buy something where I can link them to their User Name. I have always used those other ways to Verify because they readily served my need for HOF purposes.

      I also have tried to Verify *most* posters who have posted regularly -- at least over 20 posts -- if I felt they had sufficiently established at least their online identity, so that it was clear they were an active participant, and not just fluffing posts so that they could vote. But it has never been automatic that if they reach a certain number of posts, then they become Verified.

      The vBulletin software is very good, and I could probably have other levels and designations without too much difficulty if we needed them. But on the other hand I would like to keep things reasonably simple -- I already have enough trouble (despite great help from people like cincy) keeping up with half the ideas that I would like to do for onepocket.org. Some examples being, writing One Pocket news for our site, promoting the game and tournaments everywhere, interviewing more of our older legends to preserve the history of the game, add features to the site that build community and build interest in the game.

      And now.... I have to go to my day job lol
      "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
      -- Strawberry Brooks

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by NH Steve View Post
        Thank you for your serious thought put into this.

        For background information:
        The Verified level of membership here was started simply out of the need to know if a member was a real person, for HOF voting purposes. In the beginning we had new members joining simply to vote -- maybe they were personal friends of a candidate or a relative lol. So I tried different things -- a New Member category, for brand new members, that automatically rolled over to a regular member after 30 days or something like that. New Members could not vote.

        The Verified membership has always been very less than perfect, because it is not always so easy to know who an online poster is in real life. And to a certain extent, that is even OK -- as long as it does not seem to be being abused. Some ways of verifying have always been easy -- I meet someone in person (such as at DCC or another event), or they call me or email me to initiate a real relationship. Or they donate money or buy something where I can link them to their User Name. I have always used those other ways to Verify because they readily served my need for HOF purposes.

        I also have tried to Verify *most* posters who have posted regularly -- at least over 20 posts -- if I felt they had sufficiently established at least their online identity, so that it was clear they were an active participant, and not just fluffing posts so that they could vote. But it has never been automatic that if they reach a certain number of posts, then they become Verified.

        The vBulletin software is very good, and I could probably have other levels and designations without too much difficulty if we needed them. But on the other hand I would like to keep things reasonably simple -- I already have enough trouble (despite great help from people like cincy) keeping up with half the ideas that I would like to do for onepocket.org. Some examples being, writing One Pocket news for our site, promoting the game and tournaments everywhere, interviewing more of our older legends to preserve the history of the game, add features to the site that build community and build interest in the game.

        And now.... I have to go to my day job lol
        I understand this is all a big job for you. Thats why i volunteered my personal time into trying to help solve the tournament problems that keep coming up. I think I included a little bit of everybody's concerns. The verification stuff was just an after thought and your basically your doing the same thing now. I was thinking along the same lines except you could actually remove verified status..
        You didn't comment on the tournament qualification guidelines that i outlined. Does any of that sound that it might work?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by crabbcatjohn View Post
          Ok, here is my proposed ideas to take care of this mess. First off, lets be realistic here. It takes a month to get room proposals turned in and any kind of poll around here takes a month. So that's at least two months. So these are my proposals to make this easier:

          I think we need to seriously consider making this tournament last two days only. Sat-Sunday. This is just a idea, don't freak out on me yet. Cutting the races down will accomplish this. This will be more inclusive for our members who cannot afford it or actually work, because right now its its such a crazy long, time consuming, expensive trip. Its also a heavier burden on the rooms, locals and members in general. If you get there early like some of us it also gives you more time to match up or see the sights etc

          Ok, for your consideration:

          1. Set the date the same weekend every year. I think we already know that but lets get that set right away

          2. Any interested parties who want to propose their local room up for the next tournament will have 45 days from the end of the members tournament to submit their room. This should include your legwork verifying with the owner the dates and our tournament guidelines, players qualifications etc. Negotiating table time, checking room rates etc should be part of your proposal. (This gives everybody two weeks to settle back in after the tournament and 30 days to get their proposals submitted. That leaves 10-1/2 months)

          3. Have a 30 day poll and elect the room. Only verified members should be allowed to vote and as usual please don't vote if you can't attend. (That leaves 9 -1/2 months until the next tournament starts.

          4: in the next two weeks our local representative verify's again with the winning owner, gets the fliers printed out and posted in the room ASAP. Fliers should clearly state our member qualifications, required membership guidelines to participate and of course the dates etc. (this leaves 9 months until play starts)

          5. Qualification guidelines proposed as follows. You must be a verified member of at least 7 months. (that gives the locals 60 days to become a verified member...) Verified membership should be as simple as having another verified member of at least one year and 50 posts propose you for verification and personally vouch for you with Steve or his proxy ( this is common among the Elks/Eagles etc. but usually its two) Member must have 21 posts to show they are participating. (that's only 3 a month) New members MUST introduce themselves in the new member area that way if there is a problem we will all know about it imediatly. .

          6. Special considerations: Of course there are people who have contributed greatly here who might not post much like Steve mentioned such as the Greg Sullivan's etc. etc. There is no way we should shut these folks out should they want to play. An easy way to do this for our members is to take a vote.
          I propose any special consideration player not verified at least 7 months and that has less than 21 posts should be proposed to the membership at least 45 days in advance of the tournament. A 7 day poll should take place and at least 70% of the verified members should approve of the proposed individual for them to play.

          7: if it looks like a new member is say posting rymes 21 times in a row to punch up their post counts, not introducing themselves to the membership
          after being asked by the membership etc, they should be reported to Steve or his proxy and it should be up to Steve to remove their verification status. This should also take care of any members who before tournament time have proven unworthy of verification or membership status in general.


          Ok, thats my proposals to reduce the tournament problems
          1. We decided on first weekend in June after Chicago, first implemented here in 2018

          2. I like the general idea but a lot can change in 10-1/2 months; I think a couple or three months hiatus would still work and still allows for more than 6 months advance booking

          3. 30 day poll sounds good. I don't mind regular members voting with the idea they would be motivated to step up and qualify. So I would say open to any member who at least "hopes" they can attend.

          4. Same as you but I'd say 6 months is fine. I like the emphasis on encouraging new players to join so they will qualify. Tournament flyers, membership guidelines, and if necessary pro-active coaching suppprt to the local room host and our local member rep (very helpful every year -- thank you again to those of you who have performed this important role!)

          5. I like your ideas but I would back off to a degree to make the tournament more accessible and less intimidating to qualify.

          6. I'm not in favor of people who are not playing in the tournament blackballing players that do want in. I'd rather see new players feel welcome and put our effort into coaching them to get more involved.

          7. That's a good reason NOT to put too much emphasis on post counts. Lots of potentially excellent members just are not ever going to be hugely prolific posters. See #6 comment above.
          "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
          -- Strawberry Brooks

          Comment


          • #6
            PS I like Friday to Sunday night. It still feels short!! I notice a lot of you like to come one or two days earlier already!!
            "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
            -- Strawberry Brooks

            Comment


            • #7
              Inclusiveness

              Having been a member in some ways just a short period of time and having not posted much, and from reading about the members only tournament there doesn't seem like there is much inclusiveness being thought about or presented in a manner that would be welcoming to others that might have an interest. Not to mention the fact that from what I have seen in the small community that I am in here in Tennessee there is very little mention of one pocket let alone being played. That may very well be due to the fact that there are so few big tables here in these parts. Now (Old School) may have a completely different opinion than what I have about the area and the interest in playing one pocket in this region, but if someone such as myself was showing some interest and asked to come and look around here at this site it just might have the tendency to make me not want to join let alone post.

              Were in very interesting times where pool can be either be made to look interesting to the general public again with an uptick in player interest or fall by the way side due to no new rooms with enticing decore that is inviting to more than one group of people. And then there is one pocket that is like (chess) where a lot more time is needed to be able to play the game at a level that is far above that of a ball banger in a local league!

              Now there may be many here that will disagree with what I have expounded at and that is fine, I am only giving input from what I have seen in a very short period of time, after trying to get in the game after an almost 30 year absence, and a completely different environment from that which I was introduced at as a kid watching the likes of the Barber, JHenderson, or making the trip as a young kid to watch Joe Balsis, or Wimpy shoot in the tournaments that use to be held in and around the L.A. area. If younger people are wanted to be invited it has to be a little more inviting, even if it is to post some minutiae like what I have posted here with a thought that they can come and read and maybe not post, just to get a feel for the game and then want to reach out to someone that can and will take the time to tutor them.
              Ciao

              Comment


              • #8
                One of the things i think is important here is to have the members set some rules in a way to take some of the burden off Steve regardless of my personal opinions or ideas.
                Are there any members out there who would like to comment on their views on the ideas in this thread or any ideas they feel could be implemented better?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ron padilla View Post
                  Having been a member in some ways just a short period of time and having not posted much, and from reading about the members only tournament there doesn't seem like there is much inclusiveness being thought about or presented in a manner that would be welcoming to others that might have an interest. Not to mention the fact that from what I have seen in the small community that I am in here in Tennessee there is very little mention of one pocket let alone being played. That may very well be due to the fact that there are so few big tables here in these parts. Now (Old School) may have a completely different opinion than what I have about the area and the interest in playing one pocket in this region, but if someone such as myself was showing some interest and asked to come and look around here at this site it just might have the tendency to make me not want to join let alone post.

                  Were in very interesting times where pool can be either be made to look interesting to the general public again with an uptick in player interest or fall by the way side due to no new rooms with enticing decore that is inviting to more than one group of people. And then there is one pocket that is like (chess) where a lot more time is needed to be able to play the game at a level that is far above that of a ball banger in a local league!

                  Now there may be many here that will disagree with what I have expounded at and that is fine, I am only giving input from what I have seen in a very short period of time, after trying to get in the game after an almost 30 year absence, and a completely different environment from that which I was introduced at as a kid watching the likes of the Barber, JHenderson, or making the trip as a young kid to watch Joe Balsis, or Wimpy shoot in the tournaments that use to be held in and around the L.A. area. If younger people are wanted to be invited it has to be a little more inviting, even if it is to post some minutiae like what I have posted here with a thought that they can come and read and maybe not post, just to get a feel for the game and then want to reach out to someone that can and will take the time to tutor them.
                  Ciao
                  So what would you like see happen to be more inclusive to new members in our tournaments Ron? This thread is for opinions from everybody.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Inclusive

                    I can’t think of a group that’s been more welcoming to strangers. I didn’t meet 1 person at derby that made me feel unwanted or intruding. Everyone would love to see any participation new members would like to give. What has to be recognized though is that the concept behind a members tournament wasn’t to just have a tournament. It was to allow a group of “friends” who’d never or rarely met to get together and share their passion. Put in that light it’s easy I hope to understand if they want a little more than a couple posts to be entered in their gathering. Doesn’t matter to me how it’s all handled, I’m not able to attend anyway. Just wanted to respond and hope you’ll keep posting. There are more of us in the mid-states that will travel to play than you’d think.

                    John

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jlcomp45 View Post
                      I can’t think of a group that’s been more welcoming to strangers. I didn’t meet 1 person at derby that made me feel unwanted or intruding. Everyone would love to see any participation new members would like to give. What has to be recognized though is that the concept behind a members tournament wasn’t to just have a tournament. It was to allow a group of “friends” who’d never or rarely met to get together and share their passion. Put in that light it’s easy I hope to understand if they want a little more than a couple posts to be entered in their gathering. Doesn’t matter to me how it’s all handled, I’m not able to attend anyway. Just wanted to respond and hope you’ll keep posting. There are more of us in the mid-states that will travel to play than you’d think.

                      John
                      Thank you for reminding us all of this -- THIS IS A VERY GOOD POINT! In real life in person, we ALL have been really good at welcoming new members -- including the most irascible seeming from here in the forum . So in a way it is not even a real life issue, it is just an online issue, having a lot to do with the simple nature of online social networking.

                      Our prior two tournaments definitely reflected this also -- in real life very welcoming to the newer members.
                      "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
                      -- Strawberry Brooks

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by NH Steve View Post
                        Thank you for reminding us all of this -- THIS IS A VERY GOOD POINT! In real life in person, we ALL have been really good at welcoming new members -- including the most irascible seeming from here in the forum . So in a way it is not even a real life issue, it is just an online issue, having a lot to do with the simple nature of online social networking.

                        Our prior two tournaments definitely reflected this also -- in real life very welcoming to the newer members.
                        Great point..... online is like being at work, day in day out we grow tied of same peoples corks and personalities. But get a man off the job and have a little fun playing pool while pulling a few handles, Well we see the side we like.... might even identify with similarities. I have not had the experience of meeting a bunch of you guys at one time yet, but I’m sure it’s no different then working construction on the road for months with the same crew, looking forward to Friday’s nite, getting a break for the grind and having a little fun. I try to remember there is a little good in the worst of us and a little bad in the best of us, but we all have something in common.... passion for OnePocket. May that bond be stronger to keep us together so we don’t drive ourself apart.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          aside from tournament entry.::::

                          this is a forum site mostly, and to be a participant you need to post. just coming on and reading adds little to the site other than adding unique views for advertising purposes.

                          anyone can ask questions about pool and get great answers from some of the most knowledgeable players in the world.

                          so no excuse saying a person doesnt post much. and that means he isnt part of the forum. although he may be a great player or valuable person for the forums, but still he isnt interested in adding to them and is basically a viewer. nothing wrong with that either.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by beatle View Post
                            aside from tournament entry.::::

                            this is a forum site mostly, and to be a participant you need to post. just coming on and reading adds little to the site other than adding unique views for advertising purposes.

                            anyone can ask questions about pool and get great answers from some of the most knowledgeable players in the world.

                            so no excuse saying a person doesnt post much. and that means he isnt part of the forum. although he may be a great player or valuable person for the forums, but still he isnt interested in adding to them and is basically a viewer. nothing wrong with that either.
                            Beatle,
                            I agree with what you say here...

                            Reaping the benefits of anything, without any contribution just doesn’t seem quite right to me either. However...

                            Onepocket.org welcomes all comers, the only condition as far as I can tell is that you are a real live human being...

                            No one is required to post, donate, or lend a helping hand in any way towards the betterment of this site... And that’s fine with me, and I assume it’s perfectly ok with our founder...

                            Where the rub occurs for me, and I’m sure for several others, is when the members only tournament rolls into town... This is where it becomes a bit of a problem... New members want to play and it leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the seasoned members who have contributed along the way and EARNED the right and the privilege to play in the tournament... Life time lurkers also seek entry and for the same reason, it leaves a bad taste...

                            The tournament ain’t broke... There’s nothing to fix... It’s been a great boon for the members and the org. and it’s only gonna get better down the road...

                            Simply;

                            Inform locales of an upcoming members tournament in their immediate area at least 8 or 9 months in advance and make it very clear that it’s a “Verified Members Only” tournament... Outline how to join, give guidelines on how to achieve “Verified Status” on the same poster, and it’s a done deal... If they want to join and play, follow the guidelines... If not, don’t go getting on your knees in the 11th hour, cause it ain’t gonna do any good... That horse has left the barn...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              crabcat

                              In order to grow there has to be awareness, that there is more to life than just banging balls around for 9 ball and 8 ball, attempt to create more publicity in areas that might not be aware of not only the website where great info is shared by some of the best one pocket players in the world but tap into the visual aid by creating some colorful digital flyers that could possibly be shared with industry supporters of the game.
                              Now I may be full of shite simply due to lack of awareness to what has been going on around me and my area, I have been trying to catch up with a lot of things in a very short period of time and doing it digitally. I know that vendors wont share email addresses, but might be willing to put something up on there websites to let other players now about this site and all the great things that go on here. One thing I learned along time ago is that it never hurts to ask.
                              I am amused when I go out to the 9 ball tournaments in this area and find all the younger people with head phones stuck in there ears, trying to rock out and play pool at the same time. Having listened to some of these young people you would think that they only game there is is 9 ball. These same people have some talent for the game, that sounds familiar.
                              I guess with all BS I have shared of my opinion is that bringing more awareness to these younger people, it might interest them in a game that takes more skill than just banging balls around

                              Comment

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