Michael's Billiards, Cincinnati - possible location for 2019 member tourney

[cincy_kid]

I finally had a chance to speak to Michael yesterday on my drive home from work and as Steve pointed out in another thread he is interested in being considered for hosting our tourney next year!

I am sure I will leave some stuff out but here are the things I know:

Website:
https://www.michaelsbilliards.com/

- Open 24 hours on Friday and Saturday (there is always action to be had at all levels)

- They only have (11) 9' Diamond tables which he said 10 are good to use for the tourney. However, he said in most of the tourneys, the magic number for 32 players is 8 tables. I told him we usually use more and sometimes matches can run longer so the more we can get the better. Is 10 enough for our tourney?

- $15 green fees would cover us for the entire tourney.

- It's non-smoking (everywhere in Ohio)

- Calcutta is ok!

- They have finger foods, hot sandwiches, drinks at the counter but there are also lots of places close by to eat at as well.

- about 40-45 minutes from CVG Airport

- There are several hotels within a few miles of the pool room and I think most average about $80-$100 a night. I will see if there is any chance on getting a special rate at one of them.

- Goldy has his cameras set up in there so I am sure we would have the stream part covered, not sure whats all involved in getting a booth set up and going for commentary.

- Locals will do a lot of bank ring games and by the rail games for those interested in bumps as well.

- They also have a 3 cushion table (not heated), a 10 footer and a bunch of bar tables. They have 2 or 3 of the 9 footer tables with tighter pockets that he only allows one pocket to be played on so we could use these for finals, etc.


I think that's all I have for now, but as long as we can make due with 10 tables, we can add Michael's to the poll for voting!


EDIT - added Calcutta and hotel lines

 

[youngstown]

Michael's Billiards, Cincinnati - possible location for 2019 member tourney

Awesome. (It also would be great to have a regional tourney there if the members tourney ends up in Philly.)

 

[cincy_kid]

Awesome. (It also would be great to have a regional tourney there if the members tourney ends up in Philly.)

Good idea!

 

[Cory in dc]

I finally had a chance to speak to Michael yesterday on my drive home from work and as Steve pointed out in another thread he is interested in being considered for hosting our tourney next year!

I am sure I will leave some stuff out but here are the things I know:

Website:
https://www.michaelsbilliards.com/

- Open 24 hours on Friday and Saturday (there is always action to be had at all levels)

- They only have (11) 9' Diamond tables which he said 10 are good to use for the tourney. However, he said in most of the tourneys, the magic number for 32 players is 8 tables. I told him we usually use more and sometimes matches can run longer so the more we can get the better. Is 10 enough for our tourney?

- $15 green fees would cover us for the entire tourney.

- It's non-smoking (everywhere in Ohio)

- Calcutta is ok!

- They have finger foods, hot sandwiches, drinks at the counter but there are also lots of places close by to eat at as well.

- about 40-45 minutes from CVG Airport

- There are several hotels within a few miles of the pool room and I think most average about $80-$100 a night. I will see if there is any chance on getting a special rate at one of them.

- Goldy has his cameras set up in there so I am sure we would have the stream part covered, not sure whats all involved in getting a booth set up and going for commentary.

- Locals will do a lot of bank ring games and by the rail games for those interested in bumps as well.

- They also have a 3 cushion table (not heated), a 10 footer and a bunch of bar tables. They have 2 or 3 of the 9 footer tables with tighter pockets that he only allows one pocket to be played on so we could use these for finals, etc.


I think that's all I have for now, but as long as we can make due with 10 tables, we can add Michael's to the poll for voting!


EDIT - added Calcutta and hotel lines

Billiard table would be fun!

But I don't think 10 is enough unless we did 3/2 races, which I would vote against. We really need 16 to get through the first two rounds efficiently.

 

[cincy_kid]

Billiard table would be fun!

But I don't think 10 is enough unless we did 3/2 races, which I would vote against. We really need 16 to get through the first two rounds efficiently.

I know we came up with a plan for using less tables if we started a round earlier (maybe Friday night) but if it is decided that there are too few tables for our event, then it is what it is and as Mark suggested hopefully he will be as interested in a smaller 16 man regional tourney!

 

[jlcomp45]

If 16 tables is a minimum for holding a members tourney, it will eliminate a lot of great rooms - but - I think we've shown twice now that a regional works well & can be a great time to get those rooms involved. If you do have a regional in Cinci, I'd definitely be in.

John

 

[crabbcatjohn]

Having 3/2 races and a slow play rule will allow a 32 player to played in any room with 8+ tables and allow for timely finishes.

 

[Miller]

Michael’s

Personally, I’d really like to have something at Michael’s. In fact, it would be my preference. The thought of having a member’s tourney on Diamonds and 1/2 day drive are my personal and selfish motivations. We have Cincy there and I think Clay Carmen (shw) plays out of that room fairly regularly now. Also, Michael Medley (don’t personally know him) but do know he’s a real player – particularly strong at banks and one pocket – imagine he’d be a great host in every aspect.

Now, to be a bit of an objective “wet blanket.” The way that I have assimilated things is that the East is due. We’ve had the annual members tourney in the South, Midwest, and in the West. By definition, the “Midwest” is comprised of 12 states – one of which is Ohio. I’m totally in for an event there (and all things the same, it would be my personal choice) – but I think a prudent and empirical decision needs to be made: Given its geographical location, should this room be considered for the 2019 annual tournament location?

Moving Forward

I think the fact that we’ve got rooms throughout the country that are willing and able to host onepocket.org is a good problem to have. Who’s to say the evolution of this isn’t to have three or four events a year? For example, Bill Rowsey told me point blank, his preference would be April or October to do something at his room moving forward (which practically means April given that the seniors – a huge contingent of our membership – have their event in October….).

Format

As for format, I understand the want to have races 3/3. But that just hasn’t gone well. We showed last weekend just how much 3/2 moves things along. I also believe sets over 2 hours need a mechanism to speed them up. Even though the “Grady Rule” was employed last weekend, I’m not sold on it and think that it might fundamentally change the strategy of the game too much – I saw this in a match between Youngstownkid and Nick B. In the future, I’d lean towards (A) only spotting balls in the kitchen -or- (B) a derivative of what OneRock has employed: if a match goes over 2 hours, the next game is to 6 balls instead of 8.

For the purists who view things in the “that’s not one pocket!” absolute – if we stay at 3/3 with no mechanism to speed things up – then in my opinion, we’ve got to get started at least a day earlier with 32 man fields and that might impair travel, disposable funds, work, family, etc. logistics for a lot of members. And don’t forget the room owners and their needs/ability to host as well.

 

[jrhendy]

Michael’s

Personally, I’d really like to have something at Michael’s. In fact, it would be my preference. The thought of having a member’s tourney on Diamonds and 1/2 day drive are my personal and selfish motivations. We have Cincy there and I think Clay Carmen (shw) plays out of that room fairly regularly now. Also, Michael Medley (don’t personally know him) but do know he’s a real player – particularly strong at banks and one pocket – imagine he’d be a great host in every aspect.

Now, to be a bit of an objective “wet blanket.” The way that I have assimilated things is that the East is due. We’ve had the annual members tourney in the South, Midwest, and in the West. By definition, the “Midwest” is comprised of 12 states – one of which is Ohio. I’m totally in for an event there (and all things the same, it would be my personal choice) – but I think a prudent and empirical decision needs to be made: Given its geographical location, should this room be considered for the 2019 annual tournament location?

Moving Forward

I think the fact that we’ve got rooms throughout the country that are willing and able to host onepocket.org is a good problem to have. Who’s to say the evolution of this isn’t to have three or four events a year? For example, Bill Rowsey told me point blank, his preference would be April or October to do something at his room moving forward (which practically means April given that the seniors – a huge contingent of our membership – have their event in October….).

Format

As for format, I understand the want to have races 3/3. But that just hasn’t gone well. We showed last weekend just how much 3/2 moves things along. I also believe sets over 2 hours need a mechanism to speed them up. Even though the “Grady Rule” was employed last weekend, I’m not sold on it and think that it might fundamentally change the strategy of the game too much – I saw this in a match between Youngstownkid and Nick B. In the future, I’d lean towards (A) only spotting balls in the kitchen -or- (B) a derivative of what OneRock has employed: if a match goes over 2 hours, the next game is to 6 balls instead of 8.

For the purists who view things in the “that’s not one pocket!” absolute – if we stay at 3/3 with no mechanism to speed things up – then in my opinion, we’ve got to get started at least a day earlier with 32 man fields and that might impair travel, disposable funds, work, family, etc. logistics for a lot of members. And don’t forget the room owners and their needs/ability to host as well.

3/3 is nice, but I would rather play 3/2 than start changing the way the game is played to save some time. If the tournament moves along you could always go back to 3/3 for the final four players. I have never cared for Grady rules or spotting balls out of the kitchen either. I appreciate that tournaments are a long grind, but dont change the rules, shorten the race on the one loss side.

Great post and I will be happy to go to either room we choose.

 

[Scrzbill]

Awesome. (It also would be great to have a regional tourney there if the members tourney ends up in Philly.)

You would have a completing tournament rather than going to Philly?

 

[Scrzbill]

I prefer Cincinnati only because they have great a German food section of town. Cincinnati is also know for its chili and that would also be an attraction for me. 3/3 is what I would like to see. Keep it the same. I know that members who have gone to tournaments dont care about time restraints because being around the other members is too much fun. We had some very deliberate players make it to the finals last year and that is part of the game. Uptable games take longer, do we eliminate them? No where in the future do I see a need to change the rules of One Pocket to suit a minority because they bitch the loudest. We are One Pocket. Org and as the only group to play tournaments representing how one pocket is supposed to be played, do we find a need to change the rules? If your one of those that has a urgent need to change the rules of one pocket, start your own web site and have your own tournaments. Want a fast game of one pocket, shoot like its nine ball. What happened to the two places in the Northeast? Steve?:lol:lol:lol

 

[crabbcatjohn]

I prefer Cincinnati only because they have great a German food section of town. Cincinnati is also know for its chili and that would also be an attraction for me. 3/3 is what I would like to see. Keep it the same. I know that members who have gone to tournaments dont care about time restraints because being around the other members is too much fun. We had some very deliberate players make it to the finals last year and that is part of the game. Uptable games take longer, do we eliminate them? No where in the future do I see a need to change the rules of One Pocket to suit a minority because they bitch the loudest. We are One Pocket. Org and as the only group to play tournaments representing how one pocket is supposed to be played, do we find a need to change the rules? If your one of those that has a urgent need to change the rules of one pocket, start your own web site and have your own tournaments. Want a fast game of one pocket, shoot like its nine ball. What happened to the two places in the Northeast? Steve?:lol:lol:lol

A tournament that runs past 10:00 pm on a Sunday night is a poorly run tournament for both the players and spectators. When it continually runs well past midnight for no other reason than stubbornness its no longer sustainable and to be honest its a joke. The fact you can't see that i just don't know what to say Bill. We proved in Memphis that 3/2 races work great. We also sold out that tournament in a few days... If the powers that be or the general membership continue to make these tournaments so expensive and such a time consuming grind you will continue to see a drop off in player entries like in Cali. The fact you don't want what others see as a broken tournament format fixed and tell the folks who don't happen to agree with you to leave is very telling.

 

[Miller]

I prefer Cincinnati only because they have great a German food section of town. Cincinnati is also know for its chili and that would also be an attraction for me. 3/3 is what I would like to see. Keep it the same. I know that members who have gone to tournaments dont care about time restraints because being around the other members is too much fun. We had some very deliberate players make it to the finals last year and that is part of the game. Uptable games take longer, do we eliminate them? No where in the future do I see a need to change the rules of One Pocket to suit a minority because they bitch the loudest. We are One Pocket. Org and as the only group to play tournaments representing how one pocket is supposed to be played, do we find a need to change the rules? If your one of those that has a urgent need to change the rules of one pocket, start your own web site and have your own tournaments. Want a fast game of one pocket, shoot like its nine ball. What happened to the two places in the Northeast? Steve?:lol:lol:lol

Wild Bill, everything doesn't got to go off the rails or be a zero sum argument. It's just a discussion my man.....

A tournament that runs past 10:00 pm on a Sunday night is a poorly run tournament for both the players and spectators. When it continually runs well past midnight for no other reason than stubbornness its no longer sustainable and to be honest its a joke. The fact you can't see that i just don't know what to say Bill. We proved in Memphis that 3/2 races work great. We also sold out that tournament in a few days... If the powers that be or the general membership continue to make these tournaments so expensive and such a time consuming grind you will continue to see a drop off in player entries like in Cali. The fact you don't want what others see as a broken tournament format fixed and tell the folks who don't happen to agree with you to leave is very telling.

Exactly.

3/3 is nice, but I would rather play 3/2 than start changing the way the game is played to save some time. If the tournament moves along you could always go back to 3/3 for the final four players. I have never cared for Grady rules or spotting balls out of the kitchen either. I appreciate that tournaments are a long grind, but dont change the rules, shorten the race on the one loss side.

Great post and I will be happy to go to either room we choose.

I think that that 3/2 would be a good move forward for the annual members tournament. Seems sensible.

 

[youngstown]

Michael's Billiards, Cincinnati - possible location for 2019 member tourney

You would have a completing tournament rather than going to Philly?

I assume you meant a competing tourney, but I don’t understand why it would be competing, as I assume we would not schedule it in the same season. Do you see a problem with have a regional there in the fall?

 

[cincy_kid]

I understand about Ohio being midwest but I guess I think of it more like EST, MST, PST (time zones) so I always considered myself on the east coast.

In any case, whatever we decide moving forward I am good with. I do think a regional tourney would be cool and since they only have 10 or 11 tables, it might be a perfect fit! If we do decide to eliminate Ohio from the "east" running, it may be a good idea to have a list for which states would be considered "south, east, west and midwest" or whatever categories we choose. This will help eliminate any problems in the future when picking rooms. We can add it to the website on the member's tourney page:

http://www.onepocket.org/members-tournament/

Also, a regional tourney wouldn't be scheduled the same time as a regular member's tourney Bill, at least if we can help it, I am sure!

And one last thing, if we do eliminate Michael's' as a potential candidate for 2019, do we just have 1 room that's in the running? Mitch, unless I missed it, are they on board already?

Steve, status of NE rooms?

 

[Mkbtank]

Michael's Billiards, Cincinnati - possible location for 2019 member tourney

Mitch, unless I missed it, are they on board already?

Yessir. They are on board.

Of course I am good with wherever we decide, homie.

 

[darmoose]

The Memphis tournament came off without a hitch, and it seems all were very happy with the experience. It was also only a 16 man field, and whether the same results could be achieved with a 32 man field is still to be proved.

I think it is true that many who travel to these events do not care if play extends late into the night, as they are there for play with no other responsibilities interfering, until it comes to Sunday night. Extending late into the night Sunday night with Monday morning flight schedules and trying to get back to real life responsibilities can be problematic.

I know I have participated in discussions exploring rules changes, but only because there is so much complaining by some about the length of some games and some matches. My true preference is to play the game as is, and I detest the closed mindedness and tunnel vision that some display in trying to get everyone to play at "warp" speed, not a very popular position with the modern day rotation pool converts. One pocket has been played for a very long time, by many different styles of players. One pocket is truly a game (like chess) that allows for and requires some analytical thought to play at your optimum. Some tolerance is in order (especially when considering you elders).:heh

As to a tournament format that could make everyone happy with the experience, and allow for a 32 man field, yes, we could start earlier and play longer to try to finish at a reasonable time on Sunday. For the life of me though, I don't understand the "resistance" to an obvious solution that gets everyone playing many more games and matches, keeping everyone in the tournament longer with a chance to win, and still allows for plenty of "free" time for matchups and gambling.

ROUND ROBIN... 32 players divided into eight groups, each player playing three others 7 games each. That's 21 games guaranteed to everyone. At the end of the round robin, there are several options. Sunday could be a single or double elimination, depending on how many players you allow to qualify.

The round robin matches require eight tables (two per group) and can easily be completed on Friday and Saturday.



P.S. My vote is for Philly and I know Mitch will be a great host if we can just get him to stop hogging the streaming tables.:lol:lol

 

[crabbcatjohn]

The Memphis tournament came off without a hitch, and it seems all were very happy with the experience. It was also only a 16 man field, and whether the same results could be achieved with a 32 man field is still to be proved.

I think it is true that many who travel to these events do not care if play extends late into the night, as they are there for play with no other responsibilities interfering, until it comes to Sunday night. Extending late into the night Sunday night with Monday morning flight schedules and trying to get back to real life responsibilities can be problematic.

I know I have participated in discussions exploring rules changes, but only because there is so much complaining by some about the length of some games and some matches. My true preference is to play the game as is, and I detest the closed mindedness and tunnel vision that some display in trying to get everyone to play at "warp" speed, not a very popular position with the modern day rotation pool converts. One pocket has been played for a very long time, by many different styles of players. One pocket is truly a game (like chess) that allows for and requires some analytical thought to play at your optimum. Some tolerance is in order (especially when considering you elders).:heh

As to a tournament format that could make everyone happy with the experience, and allow for a 32 man field, yes, we could start earlier and play longer to try to finish at a reasonable time on Sunday. For the life of me though, I don't understand the "resistance" to an obvious solution that gets everyone playing many more games and matches, keeping everyone in the tournament longer with a chance to win, and still allows for plenty of "free" time for matchups and gambling.

ROUND ROBIN... 32 players divided into eight groups, each player playing three others 7 games each. That's 21 games guaranteed to everyone. At the end of the round robin, there are several options. Sunday could be a single or double elimination, depending on how many players you allow to qualify.

The round robin matches require eight tables (two per group) and can easily be completed on Friday and Saturday.



P.S. My vote is for Philly and I know Mitch will be a great host if we can just get him to stop hogging the streaming tables.:lol:lol

Yea, your right... its not proven to work in a 32 man... Maybe you should try organizing a 16 or 32 man round robin to prove your format. I see it worked great in a 4 man. Maybe after your tournament we will stop "complaining"

 

[Scrzbill]

A tournament that runs past 10:00 pm on a Sunday night is a poorly run tournament for both the players and spectators. When it continually runs well past midnight for no other reason than stubbornness its no longer sustainable and to be honest its a joke. The fact you can't see that i just don't know what to say Bill. We proved in Memphis that 3/2 races work great. We also sold out that tournament in a few days... If the powers that be or the general membership continue to make these tournaments so expensive and such a time consuming grind you will continue to see a drop off in player entries like in Cali. The fact you don't want what others see as a broken tournament format fixed and tell the folks who don't happen to agree with you to leave is very telling.

Like I said, its the same people bitching. You sold out in a few days? 16 person vs 32. Two days vs three. Have you ever heard of apples to oranges. Just because you called it a one pocket tournament does not mean it can be compared to the Members tournament. Did you have the tournament in Memphis to prove a point, because it didnt mean anything to me what time you finished. I am glad Mike won because he is very cute and adorable. I am glad you guys had fun. Having a tournament with a different format and different rules, which rules BTW dont appear in the rule book, does not mean the regular tournament is broken. That is your opinion to which you are entitled, and its only broken to you. I really dont know why you are bitching about a tournament you refused to attend. I dont know why people didnt go to California, but Chicago wasnt full either so that arguement means nothing. We had a full field. In the rush to change the rules, change the format, why not start with saying once a game starts being an uptable game, then you only play to five balls. To me its all about nothing. A big pile of hooey. Leave the member tournament alone and if you dont want to attend, dont. As far as the regular, yearly, members only tournament, I am not for changing anything. Not rules, not formats, not moving from place to place. And yes, to those who want to CHANGE THE RULES of one pocket, you dont belong on this site. One last thing, if you feel you cannot rebutt my opinions without personal attacks or insinuations, then really, you have no arguements that are meaningful. Its just a discussion Mr Crab Man.:lol

 

[rnewkirk]

I agree with everything in SCRZBILL's post.

Memphis tourney started after 12 on Saturday, and true we did finish early on Sunday. But, we only had 16 players and the Grady rule(modified) after a match went 2 hours. I, personally, do not think it would have taken much longer, if at all, if the losers side had been to 3 also.

Our annual members tournaments start on Fridays, have 2 rounds on Friday, and start at 11 am on Saturday. No problems.

The California field was full, not counting a no show(?).

I thoroughly enjoy all of our tournaments, win or lose. But, for someone investing time and money to participate, it should be a 3/3 tournament.

I was responding to first post in this thread!