Cyclops vs vintage centenials vs Aramith

bstroud

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Patrick,

If you think that the nappy cloth won't make a difference, let me give you an example.

Playing on West of England on a 12' snooker table:
The cue ball shot at medium speed with the nap with side spin will start off going in the opposite direction of the side of the cueball it is hit on. It will eventually return back to the original aiming line. Everyone has experienced that.

Shooting the same shot going against the nap the cue ball never returns to the original aiming line. It just keeps going.

This effect is documented in the Great Joe Davis' book "Advanced Snooker".
I have experienced it myself playing snooker.

How do you explain that? If the cloth has no effect?

Bill S.
 

bstroud

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i dont know if there is more throw now as we used more outside english on the old knappy cloths of the past. and the balls all were dirty back then, i cant remember a pool room where they cleaned the balls often. let alone brush off the tables much.

and bill is certainly right about not needing a stroke nowadays with the ice rink cloth. its so much easier to get position.

and if you cant work the ball ball as much think about what the worse player cant do with it. but i have a bunch of sets old and new and cueballs from all times and they all hit close enough not to affect the game if you can get over it.

Beatle may be right. He certainly is right about outside English. It was necessary in those days. Conditions could be tough.

I once won $800 playing in an all black pool room in Elyria OH. The equipment was so bad the the only way to play position was from one hole in the felt to the next hole. The felt was hanging off the rails.

If you were making your living playing pool conditions didn't matter.
You had to win.

Bill S.
 

Patrick Johnson

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Patrick,

If you think that the nappy cloth won't make a difference, let me give you an example.

Playing on West of England on a 12' snooker table:
The cue ball shot at medium speed with the nap with side spin will start off going in the opposite direction of the side of the cueball it is hit on. It will eventually return back to the original aiming line. Everyone has experienced that.

Shooting the same shot going against the nap the cue ball never returns to the original aiming line. It just keeps going.

This effect is documented in the Great Joe Davis' book "Advanced Snooker".
I have experienced it myself playing snooker.

How do you explain that? If the cloth has no effect?

Bill S.
That's a well known effect due to snooker cloth's "directional nap" (it's even brushed in a certain direction) - but it's an example of cloth changing the path of an already rolling ball, not changing the immediate direction due to more or less throw. I doubt that even directional-nap snooker cloth affects throw.

pj
chgo
 

Patrick Johnson

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That's a well known effect due to snooker cloth's "directional nap" (it's even brushed in a certain direction) - but it's an example of cloth changing the path of an already rolling ball, not changing the immediate direction due to more or less throw. I doubt that even directional-nap snooker cloth affects throw.

pj
chgo
P.S. I know you've been around the block, Bill, so I'm pretty sure if you see something, there's something there - I'm just not sure what it is.

pj
chgo
 

beatle

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old nappy cloths did change the direction of balls. and of course on the bigger the table the more effect it had.
same effect as on a putting green.
 

bstroud

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The BIG question is :

Why do we have to play pool on this Simmonis crap where people without a stroke can suceed? It is a nightmare to play on unless you Bunt all the time.

My Diamond has it because it is used everywhere. It drives me crazy.
Balls stick together all the time. Nothing but skids and throws.

It's not the balls. It's the cloth.

Bill S.
 

catkins

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boulder creek ca
I am guessing there are more skids because it is easier for the balls to slide so it is way apparent when the balls stick for a second
 

El Chapo

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A long time ago hard times would let their simonis cloth go a long time. I do not know a lot about cloth or what type of simonis it was, but it was hard to draw the ball and the played true in my opinion. It was "difficult", fair, and seemed to be budget conscious as it was such old cloth. It seemed to be drawn very tight, as you could see the actual simonis patterns with all the softer fibers were worn away. It was some of my fav playing conditions. Sometime after they started changing the cloth much more often. To me what new cloth represents is "I wanna play good" conditions that are kind if catering to the desires of the players. But it is not the best playing conditions in reality. New cloth is easier to draw the ball, and levels the playing field in many respects.
 

bstroud

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El Chapo,

You see those conditions in many small towns.
Worn cloth of all kinds is difficult to play on.
Only the better players can adapt.

Wish you had seen the fiberglass cloth they used to have in Las Vegas.
A simple thin cut shot became a four rail up and down the table.

Simmons is not much different. What used to be one across the table is now twice across the table and a power draw shot from distance is almost impossible if you can not go to a rail.

I guess pool players are a little like lemmings. Greg Sullivan said Simmons and everyone drove off a clif.

Bill S.
 

johnnytronic

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The BIG question is :

Why do we have to play pool on this Simmonis crap where people without a stroke can suceed? It is a nightmare to play on unless you Bunt all the time.

My Diamond has it because it is used everywhere. It drives me crazy.
Balls stick together all the time. Nothing but skids and throws.

It's not the balls. It's the cloth.

Bill S.

I can't really agree with this, the old school cloth was far worse imo. Yes you needed a better stroke to move the ball. Great, now you have developed a better stroke and this translated to the simonis. Mainly you needed to spin balls more ime. The old cloth on the rail shots would wear out very quickly and leave a groove that the balls would ride down like a track. The spot where the balls got racked would wear out very fast with a deep hole. Rolling balls was an issue. Ill take a few skids to have over all better playing/consistency conditions.
 

johnnytronic

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I have the super aramith and just got the new cyclops with the Asian spelling for the balls. I have only played with the cyclops so far. Was it I’m getting my stroke back or the balls? New shaft, new balls, new Kentucky? I don’t know. I’ll try the Aramith Saturday or Sunday. Johnnie Tronic has action if I come back and Barry isn’t there.:lol:lol:heh

I don't know what Barry has to do with us playing. Haaa, tried to play ya every single day you were there. Not a big deal, probably see you at Derby.
 

johnnytronic

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Patrick,

If you think that the nappy cloth won't make a difference, let me give you an example.

Playing on West of England on a 12' snooker table:
The cue ball shot at medium speed with the nap with side spin will start off going in the opposite direction of the side of the cueball it is hit on. It will eventually return back to the original aiming line. Everyone has experienced that.

Shooting the same shot going against the nap the cue ball never returns to the original aiming line. It just keeps going.

This effect is documented in the Great Joe Davis' book "Advanced Snooker".
I have experienced it myself playing snooker.

How do you explain that? If the cloth has no effect?

Bill S.

The bottom line in pool is "Everything makes a difference" It's considered the most nuanced based game in the world. Any factor that effects friction will make some difference. Humidity, therefore temperature, nap on the cloth, less nap more nap, age of balls, weight of balls, roundness of balls, lighting, how hot is the light, what kinda of shadows are on the balls, cut and angle on the rails, cutting a stripe ball is perceived easy then a solid, the grain size on the chalk, is your tip worn out or new, is it mushroomed, is it dime shaped or nickle, every little thing that you can think of will make a difference and we have not even got into the physiological part of the game which imo is far more difficult to master. Take some combinations of differences and for sure you will miss positions and banks. Have you ever coated the balls with silicone--It's like a whole new game for about 1/2 hour..:frus
 

bstroud

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A better stroke does not translate to Simmons.

It’s a bit like having a 1000HP car and trying to go 5 miles an hour forever.
Just doesn’t work.

Bill S.
 

El Chapo

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The bottom line in pool is "Everything makes a difference" It's considered the most nuanced based game in the world. Any factor that effects friction will make some difference. Humidity, therefore temperature, nap on the cloth, less nap more nap, age of balls, weight of balls, roundness of balls, lighting, how hot is the light, what kinda of shadows are on the balls, cut and angle on the rails, cutting a stripe ball is perceived easy then a solid, the grain size on the chalk, is your tip worn out or new, is it mushroomed, is it dime shaped or nickle, every little thing that you can think of will make a difference and we have not even got into the physiological part of the game which imo is far more difficult to master. Take some combinations of differences and for sure you will miss positions and banks. Have you ever coated the balls with silicone--It's like a whole new game for about 1/2 hour..:frus

I played a tournament in mexico once and the owner decided to wax the balls to make them look pretty right before the tournament. I was the beat player there by a long shot and went two and out. You have never seen balls do anything like this. And we did not get to practice with them in this condition. You would draw a ball and the cueball would just sit there for a good second before it came back it was unbelievable. And shotmaking was a complete abomination.
 

Island Drive

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May 1, 2011
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florence, colorado
I played a tournament in mexico once and the owner decided to wax the balls to make them look pretty right before the tournament. I was the beat player there by a long shot and went two and out. You have never seen balls do anything like this. And we did not get to practice with them in this condition. You would draw a ball and the cueball would just sit there for a good second before it came back it was unbelievable. And shotmaking was a complete abomination.

Jeeterville Bobby Goad, used to use Armor All on his ball sets in the beginning at his Pinkies establishments.

So what is the best ball set to purchase for today's conditions. What do they use at DCC and what are they going to use at the 2019 US open.?
 

jtompilot

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Feb 17, 2009
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New Orleans
Jeeterville Bobby Goad, used to use Armor All on his ball sets in the beginning at his Pinkies establishments.

So what is the best ball set to purchase for today's conditions. What do they use at DCC and what are they going to use at the 2019 US open.?

Cyclops balls. The same balls pool rooms all across the country are having problems with cracked balls.
 

Henry

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Dec 15, 2005
Messages
134
The BIG question is :

Why do we have to play pool on this Simmonis crap where people without a stroke can suceed? It is a nightmare to play on unless you Bunt all the time.

My Diamond has it because it is used everywhere. It drives me crazy.
Balls stick together all the time. Nothing but skids and throws.

It's not the balls. It's the cloth.

Bill S.

Simmonis is great at promoting their product but it is not good for pool. I liked the cloth used before Simmonis. You had to have a stroke in those days. So the solution seems to be making the pockets smaller because the cloth has made the game so easy. Now you have to buy a little cue to jump balls. The game has changed and not for the better. The problem with making the pockets smaller is sometimes they make them so small you can't play pool. Pool requires some shots to be hit with speed and English. They just went thru this at Hardtimes in Sacramento. They got the pockets so small no one could run a rack so they had to open them up. I like 4" pockets for one pocket and 4.5" for rotation pool. I believe in change but it seems every time they make changes to pool it makes the game worse. Texas Express rules turned 9 ball into a boring joke of a game. And that is why we need to resist the smart peoples ideas on changing one pocket. It seems like it is almost perfect as it is
 
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