Best break for One Pocket

[Patrick Johnson]

Picking a target in the stack to aim at is obviously simpler/easier than attempting to cut a ball to a target on the rail.

If that's true why don't we aim normal cut shots at some point we picked out on the rail, or another ball in the background?

I don't know where to hit the head ball or what my target should be, other than I wanna hit that head ball.

But if you did know*, like you know on every cut shot, then why wouldn't you want to shoot it the way you've practiced all cut shots? The point of this is to do what you're already good at, rather than learn a new way to shoot this one shot.

pj
chgo

*All you have to do to know what target you want to "cut" the head ball at is to aim it at various targets until you find the one that consistently works for you. I like the first diamond because it's visible and it works.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I would never leave the cue ball froze to the head ball and then shoot into the the cue ball, that is ridiculous!

It's actually a fairly common way, when testing something, to be sure your CB hits the exact OB contact point you want - it just has the drawback of not acting like a rolling/spinning CB on contact. Again, sorry I misread you.

I will be willing to delete my posts towards your comments, if you also will delete your comments towards me and my findings!

Your posts don't bother me. Do you feel insulted by everybody who disagrees with something you say?

But, if you continue I will also refute every one of your mis-statements.

Why do you think that would be a problem? If I'm wrong I hope you'll tell me. No need for all the drama.

pj
chgo

 

[darmoose]

If that's true why don't we aim normal cut shots at some point we picked out on the rail, or another ball in the background?
But if you did know*, like you know on every cut shot, then why wouldn't you want to shoot it the way you've practiced all cut shots? The point of this is to do what you're already good at, rather than learn a new way to shoot this one shot.

pj
chgo

*All you have to do to know what target you want to "cut" the head ball at is to aim it at various targets until you find the one that consistently works for you. I like the first diamond because it's visible and it works.

Pat,

My questioning your method comes simply from your attempting to do something that you subsequently have NO way of knowing if you actually did it. The head ball never did and never will go to the first diamond. So, when you are evaluating how you hit it, you cannot say to yourself, "yep, that head ball was going to the first diamond", and from that think this is gonna be a good break. Likewise, if your break turns out poorly, you cannot know if you missed the target or something else went wrong.

Secondly, you claim that you can shoot an OB into a hole or hit a target with that OB more often than you (or I) can shoot the CB directly into the hole or at that target. I just don't believe that anybody would claim that.

JMHO

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Pat,

My questioning your method comes simply from your attempting to do something that you subsequently have NO way of knowing if you actually did it. The head ball never did and never will go to the first diamond. So, when you are evaluating how you hit it, you cannot say to yourself, "yep, that head ball was going to the first diamond", and from that think this is gonna be a good break. Likewise, if your break turns out poorly, you cannot know if you missed the target or something else went wrong.

Secondly, you claim that you can shoot an OB into a hole or hit a target with that OB more often than you (or I) can shoot the CB directly into the hole or at that target. I just don't believe that anybody would claim that.

JMHO

Yeah, we seem to be talking past each other.

No problem - hard to communicate through our fingers sometimes.

pj
chgo

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

PJ, I can answer Darmoose questions, and with direct feed back!
So now we know exactly how you hit the head ball in accordance with your statement on post #117. I quote; "I am to hit the contact point including compensating for squirt.
Therefore, your contact point is in line with the first diamond side rail. This is a constant that we can rely on!

So lets be scientific, and eliminate a few variables, and develop some constants.
1. We place the cb on left to break towards foot right pocket. Starting with the cb placed just behind the line using base of ball, and off the rail 2 inches from cushion to side of cb.
2. lets eliminate out the squirt effect for it is a huge uncontrollable variable, and it has been discussed on this very thread, that the only reason to use inside spin is to kill the cb off the end rail and guide it to the sweet spot. This way we can use center cb and aim directly at our intended contact point.
3. rack the balls centered on the foot spot, and all balls are frozen.

Now, in using a 'ghost ball' and laying it up against the head ball on an angle that is through the center of both balls so that the head ball is in line to be driven into the 1st diamond side rail. This is approx. a 70 degree angle.

Now, if we draw a straight line from the center of the cb thru the center of the 'Ghost Ball' we see the line contacts the 2nd ball 1/8 of a ball to the right of center, exposing 1/8 of the left edge. So your aim is just right of full 1/8 ball.

We now have a direct feed back to answer Darmoose's questions. And by using the 2nd. ball it is the easiest to aim precisely. You have a clear view to aim.
So now using center ball I shoot directly at this aiming point, and it noticeably hits the head ball heavy and results in a poor break and also the cb hits a ball that pops out. This more than not is what happens.

So now we use the 'Ghost Ball' and lay it against the head ball and the 2nd. ball producing the split hit. The angle through the center of the ghost ball and the head ball goes nearly on line with the 2nd. diamond. This head ball path is approx. 90 degrees. A 20 degrees difference than your aiming and contact point.

So now drawing a line from the center of the cb thru the center of the ghost ball we see the aiming point on the 2nd. ball is 1/4 ball to the left of center of the 2nd. ball. The cb nows covers 3/4 of the 2nd ball to the left, exposing 1/4 ball to the right.
So using center cb aiming to hit the 2nd ball 1/4 left of full it contacts the head ball and 2nd. ball on a split hit. The results are a very acceptable break one would expect.

For those members having trouble in using inside spin then this split hit ghost method will work very well, you just have to hit it softer because the cb does not slow down when coming off the end rail. Whitey

 

[baby huey]

I've always tried to make a ball on the break. This year at DCC it is not an advantage to do so. I'm planning to change it up a bit and move the cue ball out from the rail a little more so I can get my cue ball a little closer to the side pocket so that I can move more balls towards my hole.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

PJ, I can answer Darmoose questions, and with direct feed back!

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Whitey.

I didn't follow a couple of your angle measurements (maybe doesn't matter):

Now, in using a 'ghost ball' and laying it up against the head ball on an angle that is through the center of both balls so that the head ball is in line to be driven into the 1st diamond side rail. This is approx. a 70 degree angle.

Maybe you mean the angle breaking from the center of the table? That would be about 63 degrees. With the CB near the side rail as described, the cut angle is about 40 degrees.

now we use the 'Ghost Ball' and lay it against the head ball and the 2nd. ball producing the split hit. The angle through the center of the ghost ball and the head ball goes nearly on line with the 2nd. diamond. This head ball path is approx. 90 degrees.

Again, that's the cut angle breaking from the center of the table. Breaking from near the side rail the cut angle is more like 67 degrees. Or maybe you meant the angle into the rail...?

Just wondering if I get it.

pj
chgo

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Whitey.

I didn't follow a couple of your angle measurements (maybe doesn't matter):


Maybe you mean the angle breaking from the center of the table? That would be about 63 degrees. With the CB near the side rail as described, the cut angle is about 40 degrees.


Again, that's the cut angle breaking from the center of the table. Breaking from near the side rail the cut angle is more like 67 degrees. Or maybe you meant the angle into the rail...?

Just wondering if I get it.

pj
chgo

No, I am not comparing cut angles, but comparing the head ball paths. Which is measured off the long string, with one head ball path going to the first diamond side rail @ 70 degrees, and one head ball path going to the 2nd diamond side rail @ 90 degrees. The different paths are quite obvious without even measuring them, there's a diamond difference. Whitey

 

[beatle]

what i believe is happening with the guys that break inconsistently is what i said early in the tread. it is that using inside english is tough and most hit it badly. it isnt where you are aiming, it is that the cueball is going where it is supposed to go and you are not aiming for that spot.

so practice doing inside with spot shots. after you can consistently make ten or so in a row then it becomes second nature and you can hit wherever you want on the head ball with as much inside as you need.

also you will learn to be able to play position on spot shots.

 

[Scrzbill]

This is a very good and entertaining thread. I didn’t read them all because there was so much information it was getting confusing. One thing I noticed, everyone has an idea of what their break should be. There are so many variables that the aiming process is about the only thing you can try to control. The weather, speed of the table, lights, clean, dirty balls, etc. Consistency is what most of the bloggers are try to achieve. I applaud everyone for sharing their “secrets” of the game. :lol

 

[Patrick Johnson]

No, I am not comparing cut angles, but comparing the head ball paths. Which is measured off the long string, with one head ball path going to the first diamond side rail @ 70 degrees, and one head ball path going to the 2nd diamond side rail @ 90 degrees. The different paths are quite obvious without even measuring them, there's a diamond difference. Whitey

OK - why do you think those angles matter?

pj
chgo

 

[Dennis "Whitey" Young]

Hi Patrick,
Lets move on from this thread, it has ran its gambit. Its been very informative, and members, and new players to one pocket learned from it. Even Billy realized he needed to adjust his aiming, very nice. Squirt was well discussed, Larry posted a very nice diagram of how Doc adjusts for squirt, Tjoe6 gave his expertise in gaps within the rack. Your aiming method help others, as Billy acknowledged. Larry's and Darmoose aiming technique help me, Steve offered up his knowledge and diagrams, some high power members said they like and use 4 & 8, and so forth!

Now its down to what works for that person, and this thread probably will give them some good ideas if they are having trouble with the break.

So I am moving on. thanks Patrick! Tell the next time. Whitey