Best break for One Pocket

[Johnny J. Willis]

Any advisement on best practices to break the balls?

 

[NH Steve]

Any advisement on best practices to break the balls?

There is a One Pocket primer here on onepocket.org that has some tips on the standard break:
http://www.onepocket.org/getting-started/

Not shown there, but there is also a practice setup you can work on that is reported to improve your break for One Pocket. Instead of racking a full 15 balls, you only rack the top three. The advantage of this practice is that you can readily see if you are hitting the optimum amount of the head ball. The idea being, a perfect light clip on the head ball before striking the second ball, sends the 3rd ball right into your pocket. But if you are hitting too much of the head ball, the 3rd ball goes toward the bottom rail; too little and the 3rd ball hits the side rail first. In other words, apparently the same pure hit with just three balls -- that pockets the 3rd ball -- is the ideal hit with a full rack

 

[darmoose]

I have heard of this three ball drill before, but I wonder if it has the practical benefits claimed.

Firstly, there are 12 balls missing, all of which can have an effect on the results of your break.

I doubt from a physics standpoint whether the hit on the head ball that sends the third ball to your hole will do the same for the corner ball when all 15 balls are racked.

Almost all my recollections of scratching on the break involve a kiss off the last ball in the rack. That ball not being there completely eliminates my knowing if I am practicing scratching.

Seems to me that practicing the break with all 15 balls is necessary.

 

[lll]

I have heard of this three ball drill before, but I wonder if it has the practical benefits claimed.

Firstly, there are 12 balls missing, all of which can have an effect on the results of your break.

I doubt from a physics standpoint whether the hit on the head ball that sends the third ball to your hole will do the same for the corner ball when all 15 balls are racked.

Almost all my recollections of scratching on the break involve a kiss off the last ball in the rack. That ball not being there completely eliminates my knowing if I am practicing scratching.

Seems to me that practicing the break with all 15 balls is necessary.

do you think the scratch off a kiss from the last ball in the rack is more a result of a gap between the balls rather than a bad hit ? i do.
icbw
when the cue ball goes straight into the corner the bad hit is obvious.
for the op i think the 3 ball drill is good but breaking with the full rack is necessary.
from my experience in showing new players the break
they often dont get enough inside spin on the the cue ball
so there is little to no inside spin when it reaches the rack or to hold it when it gets to the foot rail
using a stripe as your cue ball will show you how much spin you have when the cue ball reaches the rack

 

[NH Steve]

I have heard of this three ball drill before, but I wonder if it has the practical benefits claimed.

Firstly, there are 12 balls missing, all of which can have an effect on the results of your break.

I doubt from a physics standpoint whether the hit on the head ball that sends the third ball to your hole will do the same for the corner ball when all 15 balls are racked.

Almost all my recollections of scratching on the break involve a kiss off the last ball in the rack. That ball not being there completely eliminates my knowing if I am practicing scratching.

Seems to me that practicing the break with all 15 balls is necessary.

Oh, I agree 100% -- the three ball drill is just to help get a feel for the right clip on the head ball -- ultimately you need all 15 balls.

The other thing is, where do you place the cue ball? My thought in general is that closer to the rail is "more aggressive" -- but the geometry naturally gives you a more solid hit on the 2nd ball from that angle, and what I have observed is the corner ball is more prone to leaking out on your opponent's side.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I've had good luck aiming to cut the head ball at the first diamond above the corner pocket on the long rail. VP4 agrees.

pj
chgo

 

[beatle]

if you cant make a spot shot with inside spin you cant hit where you are aiming on the break shot with spin. simple as that. so learn that simple shot first.

every break is different on how much spin you use, speed, and where you hit the rack and place the cue ball for the break.

a lot of this depends on the rack, cloth, speed of cloth, humidity, conditions of the balls etc.

and most of all, on what you need to accomplish with this particular break to help win this game.

 

[darmoose]

do you think the scratch off a kiss from the last ball in the rack is more a result of a gap between the balls rather than a bad hit ? i do.
icbw
when the cue ball goes straight into the corner the bad hit is obvious.
for the op i think the 3 ball drill is good but breaking with the full rack is necessary.
from my experience in showing new players the break
they often dont get enough inside spin on the the cue ball
so there is little to no inside spin when it reaches the rack or to hold it when it gets to the foot rail
using a stripe as your cue ball will show you how much spin you have when the cue ball reaches the rack

Larry,

Sorry i somehow had not seen your question earlier. To answer, I'm not sure which is the most culpable. My own experience is that I scratch mostly if I clip that last ball. Seems that when I hit too much of the second ball, I don't scratch, but hit the long rail (where all kinds of bad things can happen). If I hit too much head ball, I can scratch without clipping the last ball.

I seem to sacrifice accuracy when I try to get significant spin on the CB, so I focus more on an accurate hit and speed (with a little inside on the CB). I do go to the side rail with the CB to break from because it is more aggressive (more force/energy goes to pushing balls to the side rail than the bottom rail).

As i said to Steve, I don't care for the three ball break drill because it does not mirror a full rack break, and you get NO feedback about the CB (which is in my opinion the most important feedback to seek).

I've had good luck aiming to cut the head ball at the first diamond above the corner pocket on the long rail. VP4 agrees.

pj
chgo

PJ,

Would you say that your aiming thought is the same as aiming at the C/L of the second ball, and perhaps a bit more difficult to visualize as well as execute?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

PJ,

Would you say that your aiming thought is the same as aiming at the C/L of the second ball, and perhaps a bit more difficult to visualize as well as execute?

I'm sure an alignment like that could be found for the shot, but it wouldn't be the most precise way for me to visualize it. The most precise way I know to aim a shot is the way I aim all shots - cutting the ball at a target.

pj
chgo

 

[lll]

Larry,

Sorry i somehow had not seen your question earlier. To answer, I'm not sure which is the most culpable. My own experience is that I scratch mostly if I clip that last ball. Seems that when I hit too much of the second ball, I don't scratch, but hit the long rail (where all kinds of bad things can happen). If I hit too much head ball, I can scratch without clipping the last ball.

I seem to sacrifice accuracy when I try to get significant spin on the CB, so I focus more on an accurate hit and speed (with a little inside on the CB). I do go to the side rail with the CB to break from because it is more aggressive (more force/energy goes to pushing balls to the side rail than the bottom rail).

As i said to Steve, I don't care for the three ball break drill because it does not mirror a full rack break, and you get NO feedback about the CB (which is in my opinion the most important feedback to seek).



PJ,

Would you say that your aiming thought is the same as aiming at the C/L of the second ball, and perhaps a bit more difficult to visualize as well as execute?

thanks for the reply darrell
in your question to PJ
what do you mean by the C/L of the second ball?
for me i had trouble getting consistent hits on the first 2 balls when i tried to "clip" them
thru trial and error i came upon aiming at the base of the second ball
ie ..full in the face
from where i place the cue ball about 9 inches off the side rail
i will clip the front ball just right as it overlaps the second ball and you cannot hit the second ball straight on without clipping the first ball
from the side rail the clip on the front ball might be a bit thin so i would aim a smidgeon to the front ball side of the base of the second ball if necessary

 

[NH Steve]

I'm sure an alignment like that could be found for the shot, but it wouldn't be the most precise way for me to visualize it. The most precise way I know to aim a shot is the way I aim all shots - cutting the ball at a target.

pj
chgo

...and for the One Pocket break, the advantage of having a rail target like you are describing, as opposed to a target aim line lower in the rack, is that the spot on the rail only changes if the rack is tilted. The target lower in the rack -- like larry mentioned -- has to be adjusted if you place the cue ball either closer or further from the side cushion.

It's kind of a very thin "billiard" on the head ball. Matter of fact, I am curious how a billiard player like Billy Smith -- or some of the other billiard players here on the site, would aim for a One Pocket break because that must be right up their ally!

 

[darmoose]

thanks for the reply darrell
in your question to PJ
what do you mean by the C/L of the second ball?
for me i had trouble getting consistent hits on the first 2 balls when i tried to "clip" them
thru trial and error i came upon aiming at the base of the second ball
ie ..full in the face
from where i place the cue ball about 9 inches off the side rail
i will clip the front ball just right as it overlaps the second ball and you cannot hit the second ball straight on without clipping the first ball
from the side rail the clip on the front ball might be a bit thin so i would aim a smidgeon to the front ball side of the base of the second ball if necessary

Larry,

Over the years I have heard, been told, that a method that works for the break is to aim at the "middle" of the second ball, which is exactly what you describe. That's what I do, with slight inside english. I position the CB within an inch of the side rail and it works for me. My results vary mostly based on the speed of my shot, but speed is relatively easy to control compared to other variables for me.

I rarely sell out, usually get a few balls close to my hole , rarely scratch, and usually get pretty good CB position behind the stack. I think I make a ball less often then some of the guys I play with, but they sell out or scratch more.

I prefer this aiming method because I believe it is significantly easier to aim and hit the the middle (C/L or base) of a ball than to hit a random spot on the ball trying to direct it to a specific spot on the rail, which to me at least seems pretty obvious.

 

[darmoose]

...and for the One Pocket break, the advantage of having a rail target like you are describing, as opposed to a target aim line lower in the rack, is that the spot on the rail only changes if the rack is tilted. The target lower in the rack -- like larry mentioned -- has to be adjusted if you place the cue ball either closer or further from the side cushion.

Not completely sure what you mean by this, and how this "advantage" actually works, but let me try to understand. Do you mean that if you pick a spot on the rail where you want to direct the head ball towards and then I move your CB a foot or so along the kitchen line, you would still direct the head ball to the same spot on the rail, you would not adjust your aiming point?

Secondly, do you mean that if when you were preparing to break, you noticed that the rack was "tilted", your response would be to adjust your aiming point to compensate?

Just seems to me that it is much easier to hit a defined spot anywhere on the table directly with the CB than to hit that same spot indirectly with an OB.

Guess that's just me.

 

[mr3cushion]

...and for the One Pocket break, the advantage of having a rail target like you are describing, as opposed to a target aim line lower in the rack, is that the spot on the rail only changes if the rack is tilted. The target lower in the rack -- like larry mentioned -- has to be adjusted if you place the cue ball either closer or further from the side cushion.

It's kind of a very thin "billiard" on the head ball. Matter of fact, I am curious how a billiard player like Billy Smith -- or some of the other billiard players here on the site, would aim for a One Pocket break because that must be right up their ally!

Steve; I place the CB about 1-2" off the side rail just in the kitchen at the 6th diamond.

About aiming, I've was taught and still to this day try to aim to split the head and 2nd ball, with medium 4 or 8 O'clock English! NOTE: Applying the inside will cause the CB to curve a little, (so the actual aim is to clip the back of the head ball!) I think trying to aim at a point on the end rail thru those points is a little difficult! First off, you're trying to aim at a point that is now over 2' further away, in a persons mind, I believe they will have a tendency to hit the break a little firmer, which may cause a back ball to jump out!

I see many new players placing the CB almost 1 diamond out from the side rail, I think this would cause the CB to deflect more then actually opening up the stack, (going into the stack at more obtuse angle.) Now a days, the balls open up anyway, but, I still like to go into them more directly, have the CB contact the end rail between the 1st diamond and his opponents pocket, with the reverse English to slide up and freeze a little above the 2nd diamond on the long rail!

This is how Artie broke the balls, he broke them and got out of the break as good as ANY player!

 

[lll]

Steve; I place the CB about 1-2" off the side rail just in the kitchen at the 6th diamond.

About aiming, I've was taught and still to this day try to aim to split the head and 2nd ball, with medium 4 or 8 O'clock English! NOTE: Applying the inside will cause the CB to curve a little, (so the actual aim is to clip the back of the head ball!) I think trying to aim at a point on the end rail thru those points is a little difficult! First off, you're trying to aim at a point that is now over 2' further away, in a persons mind, I believe they will have a tendency to hit the break a little firmer, which may cause a back ball to jump out!

I see many new players placing the CB almost 1 diamond out from the side rail, I think this would cause the CB to deflect more then actually opening up the stack, (going into the stack at more obtuse angle.) Now a days, the balls open up anyway, but, I still like to go into them more directly, have the CB contact the end rail between the 1st diamond and his opponents pocket, with the reverse English to slide up and freeze a little above the 2nd diamond on the long rail!

This is how Artie broke the balls, he broke them and got out of the break as good as ANY player!

why 4 or 8 oclock english and not 2 or 10 oclock ??
and do you want the back spin to be on the ball when it gets to the stack?
or do you sort of drag draw it so the cue ball has 2/10 oclock spin when it gets to the stack?

 

[mr3cushion]

why 4 or 8 oclock english and not 2 or 10 oclock ??
and do you want the back spin to be on the ball when it gets to the stack?

The low inside English, 'kills the CB off the short and long cushion to able it to freeze there!' The follow gives to much, 'life to the CB off the rails!'

Yes, I do!

To your edited question! Larry; I think you need to direct that question to one of the, 'Scientific Gee's' for the low drag to follow on the CB answer!

 

[lll]

The low inside English, 'kills the CB off the short and long cushion to able it to freeze there!' The follow gives to much, 'life to the CB off the rails!'

Yes, I do!

To your edited question! Larry; I think you need to direct that question to one of the, 'Scientific Gee's' for the low drag to follow on the CB answer!

thanks for the reply bill

 

[mr3cushion]

thanks for the reply bill

Your welcome. BTW, Larry; EVERY top player from the 60's, 70' 80's I've ever seen or knew played the 1P break with low inside!

 

[wgcp]

The two best explanations of a one pocket break can be found on Billy incardone and Grady mathews DVD’s. They explain the why and where you break from certain positions according to slide of new cloth, the absolutes of all the balls touching on the side you are breaking from, and speed control of the stroke.

B

 

[Scrzbill]

Practice using no English, Spanish, or any other ish to the cue ball. Aim directly for the center ball in the way that you cover one ball with the other. From there gradually learn where you line up you cue ball with the rack, then speed, then English. It doesn’t take long to learn an effective break. Now spend the rest of your life perfectly your start.