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One pocket handi-cap rating & comparison system

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Hardmix View Post
    I have a novel idea....why not make a fair game and just play better than your opponent! Life is too short to sit around posturing trying to get the nuts to play for smallish stakes, which most games are.

    xactly my point, Ben.
    The early bird may get the worm...but the second mouse gets the cheese...Shutin@urholeisOVERATED.

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    • #17
      thats fine if you are playing pool for fun even if betting cash. but if trying to really make money at the game then you have to handle yourself differently.

      neither case is wrong just different. i supported myself gambling so what i did gambling determined my future.

      and i stalled in my home pool rooms for years. played better when i had to and drawn out games that were easy and played badly against the weak players so it always looked like they had a chance.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Miller View Post
        a few years back, I geeked out and created my own algorithm which illustrated every conceivable ball count and favorable/win percentage at that finite point in the game. intended purpose/thought at the time is that it could be a quantitative tool in shot selection. I think it was reliable, but like any model not necessarily valid.......
        If you have this in a document can you PM it to me?
        It may open up additional insights.
        I guess to a degree this chart can be considered an algorithm (simple) but hopefully presented in a manner that is easy to grasp.

        I could of taken another approach which might have been perceived as even simpler and maybe we can try it. I could of said 9/8 is equal to let's say level 1.0, 10/8 is equal to 2 points or level 2.0 etc....The hit and the pick would probably be equal to 3.7 or 4 points. Then Hustler(A) could derive that from Hustler(B) he gets a level 3 spot (11/8) but, statistically he's a net looser. He can then reference the system and look for a level 3.5 spot or an equal 3.0 spot that is completely different--lets say the breaks and move a ball to the spot.

        Even though these points are deemed equal--one player can use creativity
        to his advantage.

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        • #19
          what I'm a little surprised of that no one brought up the psychological aspect of spotting a lesser player.

          When we spot a lesser player I would say almost all gamblers are still going to offer a spot that has him favored by a minimum of 1/2 a ball, ideally a full ball.

          Ghost and I have gone into many discussions about what we can label as the confidence meter. Depending on how solid your character is--the confidence meter can be more or less volatile. This is probably a good subject for another thread but definitely has dynamics with my chart.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by johnnytronic View Post
            what I'm a little surprised of that no one brought up the psychological aspect of spotting a lesser player.

            When we spot a lesser player I would say almost all gamblers are still going to offer a spot that has him favored by a minimum of 1/2 a ball, ideally a full ball.

            Ghost and I have gone into many discussions about what we can label as the confidence meter. Depending on how solid your character is--the confidence meter can be more or less volatile. This is probably a good subject for another thread but definitely has dynamics with my chart.
            The amount of the bet is also a factor with more people than you would probably imagine.
            Never miss a ball for 10 dollars ,can't make the game ball 1 out of 10 for 100.
            Also, sharking, some people are totally destroyed by it.
            I think mostly because it is such a sign of disrespect.
            Now, you no longer want to beat the guy at pool , you want to cave his head in with a pool ball.
            Even the environment can be a factor, I know of pool rooms that have so many distractions that anyone not used to it is going to be at a real disadvantage.
            Here's a little for instance.
            Road man and backer come in, and make a game.
            Road man goes down to shoot his game ball and opponent says that's good and he rakes the balls.
            Problem is , it wasn't his opponent , it was somebody in the back of the crowd and nobody else heard it. {right}
            Now roadman has moved the balls and loses.
            Just sayin.....theres a heck of a lot more to this pool game than shooting balls in the hole, and if you don't know that ,you have probably been victimized all your life and don't even know it.
            One more for the road.
            Very well known road player comes in a place and gets in a game for 100. His backer goes over on the next table and is playing 5 dollar nine ball.
            Roadman wins the first game , local guys backer says I'm out, and goes and pays roadmans backer .
            Roadman racks the balls anyway, either didn't hear him or is brain dead.
            Local guy {who is definately on air} goes ahead and breaks anyway and wins that game , his backer calmly goes over and collects a hundred from roadmans backer.
            Roadman proceeds to lose 1700.00 after the game should have been over with him up 100.
            His backer took a bath because they were both asleep at the wheel.
            Everybody in the room knew what happened except roadman and his backer, it was hilarious.
            These are not old wives tales, I was there for both of them.

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            • #21
              psychological things maybe do apply but thats to each individual and cannot be quantified.

              there are also many things that just need to be adjusted subjectively like realizing balls spotted are worth less for better players and visa versa.

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              • #22
                Correct there are many complexities of the mental game, too many for this thread--not something I can implement and or weave into this chart.
                As another post mentioned, it can't be quantified anyway...This being human and being emotional.

                I personally do not shark guys until they open the "shark door"
                Meaning while I'm stroking or running the balls they decide they have something
                funny or important to say. Doesn't even have to be at that junction of the game...At Derby I felt like this guy sharked me before we even started.
                He made a complaint that I got more practice on the table then he did and even tho it's not time to start yet I need to stop practicing.
                Right off the bat "because of character" I felt slight annoyance/anger and my internal dialog judging machine turned on.
                Our brain is like a computer/tape recorder, sharking if heard will have some effect. IMO to be a true champion, you're going to have to find ways to not let it negatively impact you.


                We had a guy recently break another guys cue for claiming that he lost because he was sharked. The guy that broke the cue is known to be one of the most talkative players you've ever seen, no matte what the bet!...While your shooting, while he's shooting...He probably can't help it.


                Sure, I play 10$ games with buddies and it might turn into a shark fest.
                I always say or think even at that level I'm developing bad mental habits.

                Maybe I'll make a new "Sharking & psychological edge chart"
                Making fun of a guys hair: 5% edge
                Making fun of a guys wife: 15% edge
                Constantly saying how lucky the opponent is: 3%

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                • #23
                  Handicapping One Pocket

                  As my old friend John Henderson says, "You gotta get 2 balls the better of it in case they get lucky".

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by johnnytronic View Post
                    I've been working on this for awhile. Some players have been asking me to release this because they want to know how the spots work without investing too much money.

                    The most important concept to gather from this document is the relationship between the handicaps--that you see why one is better than the other.
                    The actual theoretical percentages that I used can to a degree be arbitrary. If you think a ball is worth 6% vs 11.1%, it's almost subjective.

                    This is not a complete document yet and based off of my personal experience --with some help from the Ghost. However, he has not seen this yet.

                    I also released this with the intent of helping the game evolve. I noticed some of the players that are not from Chicago have never heard of these spots.
                    I invented some of my own but they may be considered fantasy and more for entertainment value.
                    I hope to open some doors for wild card style games, creativity and methods for modifying classic handy-caps

                    There is a .pdf attached and an image of that PDF. The original document is made in excel and I can edit and evolve it.


                    Johnny forgot to add one other very important handicap...

                    The Ghost matching up with you: any spot that the Ghost offers/determines - you can be 100% certain that it is a fair and even game for both players...
                    jrhendy: Ghost does come up with shots that others don't see.

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                    • #25
                      I tried one of the obscure handicaps last night from one of the best players at Chris's.
                      I took 13/7 from him and I had to bank my last ball.

                      One time I couldn't even get to the hill ball and he beat me. on my break
                      One time I beat him and he still owed 2 balls. on his break.
                      I only had time for one more game. Even though it was my break we flipped for it and I won the flip. I had this game under total control, I got to my hill ball and he still needed 5 balls. I ended up loosing this game! I was in a hurry and started to take too much risk. However, some interesting strategies started taking place.
                      For example you can leave a ball or multiple balls near my pocket and he can freely shoot difficult shots as long as the best bank he's leaving me is a 2 rail.
                      Having a ball hanging in my pocket actually hurts me pretty bad as I can't bank a ball into that ball to win.

                      I realized in hindsight that some adjustments have to me made.

                      The largest one is: I should be allowed to pocket my 7th ball to play shape for a bankable ball and or pocketing my 7th ball, 8th, 9th ball still allows me to keep shooting to play safe or until I miss.
                      All balls after the 7th ball have to then get spotted. These are things that need to be established prior to starting the match. Also IMO a bank carom should count. If I have 2 balls near my pocket and I make a banked ball carom off one, It needs to count. If my banked ball knocks a ball in (bank/combo) that should not count.
                      This match had a lot of people watching and even wanting to side bet.
                      Also, after it was over I heard guys trying to hustle guys into variations of this spot. This breeds new life into the gambling economy, players can't accurately calculate what this type of handicap is worth--they are forced to GAMBLE!!!

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