John Schmidt at BullShooters

NH Steve

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Boy do you see silly comments in the chat though!! Lot's of people who have no idea about the 526 and Mosconi. Lots of people who like to talk about other higher runs undocumented -- but hello people -- those are practice runs and undocumented, they don't count as a record!

Some who have complained that his runs don't count because he is playing "cue ball fouls only" and all the straight pool tournaments of yore were "all ball fouls". Well do those people not realize Mosconi's 526 was in an exhibition, not a tournament, and who the f knows what fouls would have been technically called or not lol. And oh by the way, it was an 8' table reportedly with BIG pockets (not to diminish what Mosconi did, because I think it is amazing anyway -- and as yet unduplicated in more than 50 years).

And some try to dismiss John because the pockets are 5 and 5-1/2 on the GC he is doing this on -- not a modern Diamond. LOL, John has run 434 on a friggin Diamond. But the best of all are the many who think he is playing the wrong shot often -- probably those are players with personal high runs under 40 lol :frus:frus

Anyway, I find it fun to watch... For the first 200 or so he is really quick at finding his patterns and shooting. I often cannot even keep up trying to anticipate just watching!
 

Hardmix

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I noticed his pace slowed way down and he seemed to be fighting the balls a little bit toward the end. He obviously knew he was close to 400. I almost thing he should leave the scoring to other people and not even try to know what the score is himself -- just try to keep the line moving and let someone else count. But it would still be in his head anyway I am sure, because he has done this so many times.

Some of my lowest rounds playing golf are where I did not pay attention to the score. You know you are going low, possibly record setting, but why waste energy dwelling on it when you have the task in front of you. This can be difficult to deal with for some.

I am sure John has put a lot of thought into mental side of this when approaching 300, 400, or whatever number. I would be curious to hear his thoughts on how he attempts to deal with these mental milestones.
 

lfigueroa

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Boy do you see silly comments in the chat though!! Lot's of people who have no idea about the 526 and Mosconi. Lots of people who like to talk about other higher runs undocumented -- but hello people -- those are practice runs and undocumented, they don't count as a record!

Some who have complained that his runs don't count because he is playing "cue ball fouls only" and all the straight pool tournaments of yore were "all ball fouls". Well do those people not realize Mosconi's 526 was in an exhibition, not a tournament, and who the f knows what fouls would have been technically called or not lol. And oh by the way, it was an 8' table reportedly with BIG pockets (not to diminish what Mosconi did, because I think it is amazing anyway -- and as yet unduplicated in more than 50 years).

And some try to dismiss John because the pockets are 5 and 5-1/2 on the GC he is doing this on -- not a modern Diamond. LOL, John has run 434 on a friggin Diamond. But the best of all are the many who think he is playing the wrong shot often -- probably those are players with personal high runs under 40 lol :frus:frus

Anyway, I find it fun to watch... For the first 200 or so he is really quick at finding his patterns and shooting. I often cannot even keep up trying to anticipate just watching!


Just a couple of things:

First off, the night Mosconi ran the 526 there was a referee (and another guy to rack), so in all likelihood there were no fouls committed during that run -- that was the way the game was played during that era. Second -- about tournaments of yore -- the closest contemporary competition to what JS is attempting is the DCC 14.1 Challenge. And for that event it is *all ball fouls,* not just CB fouls. For those of us that take 14.1 seriously, a foul ends the run.

Carry on.

Lou Figueroa
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Thanks Steve for posting the FB site yesterday. I caught a little of it after John was past 200, and got back to see the last 3 racks. I have never witnessed a high run before, let a lone seeing it live.
Very special, and thanks again! Whitey
 

frmn

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He was playing the ball in the side to get to the ball on the bottom rail. From there it was going to be 2 rails and get on the last ball for a left side breaker. John has always kept score himself using the moving coin. Doug calls out the score before each rack. John really wants this record and was getting more nervous the longer the run went. It was very exciting for all those in attendance. Play starts today at 2 Az time and will be a 4 hour block.Thursday start is back to noon Az time also Friday and Saturday. The shorter time blocks are to make it easier on his body. No play on Sunday and then 3 or 4 more days beginning on Monday. Its still not too late to get down here and see it in person.
 

NH Steve

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Just a couple of things:

First off, the night Mosconi ran the 526 there was a referee (and another guy to rack), so in all likelihood there were no fouls committed during that run -- that was the way the game was played during that era. Second -- about tournaments of yore -- the closest contemporary competition to what JS is attempting is the DCC 14.1 Challenge. And for that event it is *all ball fouls,* not just CB fouls. For those of us that take 14.1 seriously, a foul ends the run.

Carry on.

Lou Figueroa
I disagree about the comparison to the DCC 14.1 challenge -- that is in fact a tournament, not an exhibition set up to entertain the viewing guests like Mosconi's 526 was, and not the attempt to break Mosconi's record that John is doing. What John is doing is a lot closer to what Mosconi was doing than it is to the DCC challenge. I't just that of course John is doing one intense month long exhibition at one location, rather than Mosconi's tour schedule (that spanned many years and many locations).

So you honestly think if Mosconi was in the middle of an exhibition in a small poolroom in Ohio that if there was a slight object ball foul the ref would have called out "foul!" and that would have been the end of his run?? It was just an exhibition! I find it very difficult to believe. I assume you got the racking/ref info from the affidavit? Does that also say the exhibition was performed according to tournament rules in place at that time? Another thing that of course is different from Mosconi to John is that most likely (but I certainly do not know), Mosconi did not start his run intending anything other than every other exhibition run he had over many years. So it is not like John's stated intention from the start. With John, you know pretty exactly what rules and protocols he is going by, and what his intention is. Unless someone knows otherwise, wouldn't Mosconi's exhibition simply have started as just another exhibition?

John Schmidt is 100% up front about how he is doing this -- "cue ball fouls only" -- and don't you think John takes 14.1 seriously???
 

Jimmy B

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Boy do you see silly comments in the chat though!! Lot's of people who have no idea about the 526 and Mosconi. Lots of people who like to talk about other higher runs undocumented -- but hello people -- those are practice runs and undocumented, they don't count as a record!

Some who have complained that his runs don't count because he is playing "cue ball fouls only" and all the straight pool tournaments of yore were "all ball fouls". Well do those people not realize Mosconi's 526 was in an exhibition, not a tournament, and who the f knows what fouls would have been technically called or not lol. And oh by the way, it was an 8' table reportedly with BIG pockets (not to diminish what Mosconi did, because I think it is amazing anyway -- and as yet unduplicated in more than 50 years).

And some try to dismiss John because the pockets are 5 and 5-1/2 on the GC he is doing this on -- not a modern Diamond. LOL, John has run 434 on a friggin Diamond. But the best of all are the many who think he is playing the wrong shot often -- probably those are players with personal high runs under 40 lol :frus:frus

Anyway, I find it fun to watch... For the first 200 or so he is really quick at finding his patterns and shooting. I often cannot even keep up trying to anticipate just watching!



lol.. I enjoy the chat and learn things in there sometimes, but you have to reduce the size of the picture. I like it to stay on 24".. That was a good run.. They were talking about this guy in Bull Shooter chat on Jeopardy.. Thas James guy is a sports gambler......What a run HE has.. I like to stir up things in there at times and say something negative now and then, to get a rise..



James gives the sign...

 

lfigueroa

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I disagree about the comparison to the DCC 14.1 challenge -- that is in fact a tournament, not an exhibition set up to entertain the viewing guests like Mosconi's 526 was, and not the attempt to break Mosconi's record that John is doing. What John is doing is a lot closer to what Mosconi was doing than it is to the DCC challenge. I't just that of course John is doing one intense month long exhibition at one location, rather than Mosconi's tour schedule (that spanned many years and many locations).

So you honestly think if Mosconi was in the middle of an exhibition in a small poolroom in Ohio that if there was a slight object ball foul the ref would have called out "foul!" and that would have been the end of his run?? It was just an exhibition! I find it very difficult to believe. I assume you got the racking/ref info from the affidavit? Does that also say the exhibition was performed according to tournament rules in place at that time? Another thing that of course is different from Mosconi to John is that most likely (but I certainly do not know), Mosconi did not start his run intending anything other than every other exhibition run he had over many years. So it is not like John's stated intention from the start. With John, you know pretty exactly what rules and protocols he is going by, and what his intention is. Unless someone knows otherwise, wouldn't Mosconi's exhibition simply have started as just another exhibition?

John Schmidt is 100% up front about how he is doing this -- "cue ball fouls only" -- and don't you think John takes 14.1 seriously???


The DCC 14.1 Challenge is all about the high runs.

The tournament at the end is an afterthought and often matches don’t even get played. And no, my recollection about the ref and guy racking was from a newspaper article commemorating Mosconi’s run. They interviewed a couple of guys that were there for the run.

So no, of course every little thing was not spelled out. It never is for anything and that is a poor argument. We don’t know if they recovered the table mid-match or brought in fresh balls from Belgium or danced the mambo. All we can do is make an educated guess given the circumstances, people involved, and the era. And in this case all of that tells us a referee would not need to call a foul on Willie Mosconi because he was a perfectionist and many time World Champion who was totally at home playing all fouls. Even in his exhibitions many years later he always took care to button up his suit or sports coat to ensure he didn’t committed a foul.

And sure JS cares about 14.1... to an extent. If you have listened to almost any of the interviews he’s given over the years or read his posts you’d know that he says he rarely practices 14.1. This run attempt is far more about self promotion, which is fine, more than it is about 14.1.

For a run at Mosconi’s record all ball fouls and a neutral racker should be a given.

Lou Figueroa
 

NH Steve

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The DCC 14.1 Challenge is all about the high runs.

The tournament at the end is an afterthought and often matches don’t even get played. And no, my recollection about the ref and guy racking was from a newspaper article commemorating Mosconi’s run. They interviewed a couple of guys that were there for the run.

So no, of course every little thing was not spelled out. It never is for anything and that is a poor argument. We don’t know if they recovered the table mid-match or brought in fresh balls from Belgium or danced the mambo. All we can do is make an educated guess given the circumstances, people involved, and the era. And in this case all of that tells us a referee would not need to call a foul on Willie Mosconi because he was a perfectionist and many time World Champion who was totally at home playing all fouls. Even in his exhibitions many years later he always took care to button up his suit or sports coat to ensure he didn’t committed a foul.

And sure JS cares about 14.1... to an extent. If you have listened to almost any of the interviews he’s given over the years or read his posts you’d know that he says he rarely practices 14.1. This run attempt is far more about self promotion, which is fine, more than it is about 14.1.

For a run at Mosconi’s record all ball fouls and a neutral racker should be a given.

Lou Figueroa
I'm not arguing and I don't plan to argue. I guess I do disagree however. BTW you do realize Mosconi's record was on an 8' table with what George Rood described as "large" pockets (he later owned the room, and that table was still there according to George), so right away it did not meet the standard tournament conditions of the day, so what is the fuss anyway Lou? You might have a point if it was documented as a full sized table, under strict tournament conditions. Otherwise, not so much :D:D
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Steve, maybe you could help me out, for it is bugging me that I can not come up this old time straight pool player's name. I have been thinking about it because of the discussions concerning Babe Cranfield, but it is not him.
This player would come into the pool hall and the side bet money odds would be on him that he would run 200 hundred balls. He was known as probably the most prolific runner of balls the world as has ever seen, but when he would get into a tournament he had a hard time running 60 balls.
Thanks, Whitey
 

Island Drive

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The DCC 14.1 Challenge is all about the high runs.

The tournament at the end is an afterthought and often matches don’t even get played. And no, my recollection about the ref and guy racking was from a newspaper article commemorating Mosconi’s run. They interviewed a couple of guys that were there for the run.

So no, of course every little thing was not spelled out. It never is for anything and that is a poor argument. We don’t know if they recovered the table mid-match or brought in fresh balls from Belgium or danced the mambo. All we can do is make an educated guess given the circumstances, people involved, and the era. And in this case all of that tells us a referee would not need to call a foul on Willie Mosconi because he was a perfectionist and many time World Champion who was totally at home playing all fouls. Even in his exhibitions many years later he always took care to button up his suit or sports coat to ensure he didn’t committed a foul.

And sure JS cares about 14.1... to an extent. If you have listened to almost any of the interviews he’s given over the years or read his posts you’d know that he says he rarely practices 14.1. This run attempt is far more about self promotion, which is fine, more than it is about 14.1.

For a run at Mosconi’s record all ball fouls and a neutral racker should be a given.

Lou Figueroa

Lou, I also think he's tuning up for the US Open 9 ball event. Since he's won it before, his entry is paid for life. I just think he's getting in stroke and being prepared to play.

Notice how ACTIVE all the players have been the past 4 months? :cool:

Someone's life may be in, for a big change end of this month.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I watched John's attempt yesterday from the 8th rack on. John ran approx. 230 balls. Even though this is of course a high run, I felt he was struggling. I kept notes for each rack, and they were not to favorable. But my overall impression was that he had a hard time maintaining a pattern thus balls were randomly pocketed. Hard time developing a proper break ball. It appears his style is area postioning, breaking the rack hard, and breaking the clusters hard, thus creating more space between the balls. I hope he plays calmer today, for I feel then his positioning will come into align, and the racks will flow better.

But, what a contrasting style of play as compared to our golden age masters, such as; Mosconi, Crane, Balsis, Caras, Lassiter and the like. For they had the classical short bridge, broke the rack more softly, and broke clusters much more softly. They wanted to play tight positioning and keep the balls on the foot end of the table, by subtly breaking clusters open as they went through the rack.

Note; a ball was disturbed but yet no foul was called. I am not a fan of this! A top player never fouls a ball, it just does not happen, thus All Ball Fouls should be played in this attempt to break the record, IMO. Also a poor break happened but there was either a combination out of the stack, or the first ball of the combination could go in the side. I recall John looking over the ball in the side, but did not see him call the combination in the corner which went. Maybe I missed something! Whitey
 
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lfigueroa

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I'm not arguing and I don't plan to argue. I guess I do disagree however. BTW you do realize Mosconi's record was on an 8' table with what George Rood described as "large" pockets (he later owned the room, and that table was still there according to George), so right away it did not meet the standard tournament conditions of the day, so what is the fuss anyway Lou? You might have a point if it was documented as a full sized table, under strict tournament conditions. Otherwise, not so much :D:D


lol, OK, how about poor rationale... poor grounds?

And yes, somewhere along the line I picked up that Mosconi's run was on an 8', though actually it was a Pro 8'. And over the years, I am also aware that many people, GR among them, has claimed to have owned "the table." So who knows.

As to "the fuss" I don't know what you're talking about.

Certainly, I have never quarreled with the size table JS is using -- don't care about the balls or cloth or cue or tip or lighting either. What I said was: if you're going to go after Mosconi's record you should play all ball fouls and there should be a neutral racker. I thought I was kinda clear about all that.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

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Steve, maybe you could help me out, for it is bugging me that I can not come up this old time straight pool player's name. I have been thinking about it because of the discussions concerning Babe Cranfield, but it is not him.
This player would come into the pool hall and the side bet money odds would be on him that he would run 200 hundred balls. He was known as probably the most prolific runner of balls the world as has ever seen, but when he would get into a tournament he had a hard time running 60 balls.
Thanks, Whitey


That actually describes several players, a couple of which George Fels has written about. Certainly there were a few guys in NYC that matched that profile back in the day.

It could also be a description of Gene Nagy, a tremendous player who could run balls forever but had difficulty in tournament play.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

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Lou, I also think he's tuning up for the US Open 9 ball event. Since he's won it before, his entry is paid for life. I just think he's getting in stroke and being prepared to play.

Notice how ACTIVE all the players have been the past 4 months? :cool:

Someone's life may be in, for a big change end of this month.


That could be but I also think he wants the record.

Some time back a friend told me about him visiting a room to do an exhibition. At some point he noticed there was a plaque or sign on the wall of the pool room that commemorated the room 14.1 high run by one of the local guys. I'm told he hung around for a few extra days until he broke the guy's record, then left.

Lou Figueroa
 

beatle

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whether he does it or not all his runs are a great feat.

however the great runs of the past only happened rarely as players played to 150 points and then it ended even if he had run out. plus runs started when ever you got to the table and not starting with open balls or a perfect break shot set up.

mosconi most times ran a hundred or so in an exhibition and then put his cue down and didnt bother to go further till he missed. he left the table without a miss.
so his run is even more spectacular as he wasnt really trying in life to set a record by trying over and over.

plus tables were much slower and balls were only kicked out a few at a time. getting them blasted all apart didnt happen.

the amount of balls he ran will indeed be broken but his feat will never be.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I feel John played better today than yesterday even though he had a longer run yesterday. I noticed he played quite a few racks better and cleaner.

If I was to coach him, which I am not qualified, but the one thing I would advise him in, is to break out the various clusters by using less force. I feel I am seeing potential good break out balls rolling past their sweat spot, just because to much force was used. As we are witnessing, the position of the break out ball is critical.

He was playing well and into a 180 plus run when the rack of balls were not getting racked tight enough, and then I believe he lost some focus because of it.

Good luck tomorrow, and thanks for the stream. Whitey
 

sappo

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I had the pleasure to watch a little of John's attempts to break the record yesterday. Wow, i all I can say. He is so fluid at the table its just beautiful to watch. Ive never really watched many straight pool masters play thru racks, its interesting to see how effortlessly he evaluate his patterns and how he decides on his break ball and his key ball. In the short time I watched I saw him manufacture 3 break balls by moving them into position with the cue ball.

I also want to mention what a nice friendly guy John is. He came over and spoke to my wife and I between every rack, which was a real bonus for us spectators. It appears the luck of the break shots will ultimately determine when the record will be broken. He was in the latter stages go a 224 ball run when we arrived and that run and many others I watched on the stream ended with John pocketing the ball but having the cueball carom into a pocket. There is no question he can run more the 526 if the Cueball Gods look favorable on him.

Im routing for John to get that record, he deserves it. Keith
 
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