Foul or no foul?

[Island Drive]

James Leone of Buffalo’s posted a short video on FB which I don’t know how to load to this thread. Danny S. is playing Evan L. and Danny shoots a ball with the CB hopping onto and remaining on top of a rail. Danny apparently said Evan had to play it from on top of the rail. Is the CB played from where it sits or is it a foul with ball in hand from the kitchen? Is the felted part of the top of rail considered playing surface of the table?

I would consider it a foul for leaving and remaining off the playing surface, but I’m unsure that I’m correct. What say you???

Mike you chose the proper term.

We're not playing golf, where your able to climb a tree and hit from where the ball is lodged.

Only time I've ever seen a ball on the top rail count was from an Old Accustats video of Bloopers, it's a great video.

Ron Rosas banked a ball long rail, it bounced ''all the way'' down the long rail, hit the side pocket lip, jumped over it, kept rolling and then went in the corner pocket.

[Bmoretallpaul]

According to the United States Professional Pool Players Association Rule 3.b, this occurrence would result in a break foul.

Break fouls include the following:

b. If the cue ball is pocketed or driven off the table it is a foul and the non-breaking >player has cue ball in hand behind the head string (from the “kitchen.”)

According to the World Pool Billiard Association, this occurrence is also a foul under rule 6.1 sub rule 8.5

6.1 Cue Ball Scratch or off the Table

If the cue ball is pocketed or driven off the table, the shot is a foul. See 8.3 Ball Pocketed and 8.5 Driven off the Table.

8.5 Driven off the Table

A ball is considered driven off the table if it comes to rest other than on the playing surface but is not pocketed. A ball is also considered driven off the table if it would have been driven off the table except for striking an object such as a light fixture, piece of chalk or a player which causes it to return to the table. A ball that contacts the top of the rail is not considered to have been driven off the table if it returns to the playing surface or enters a pocket.

[gulfportdoc]

...
8.5 Driven off the Table

A ball is considered driven off the table if it comes to rest other than on the playing surface but is not pocketed. A ball is also considered driven off the table if it would have been driven off the table except for striking an object such as a light fixture, piece of chalk or a player which causes it to return to the table. A ball that contacts the top of the rail is not considered to have been driven off the table if it returns to the playing surface or enters a pocket.

Well, there you have it then. Interesting though that if a ball hits the light fixture, and comes back to rest on the playing surface it is considered a ball off the table; whereas if it climbs up onto the support rail and comes back to the playing area, it's considered "in play". hmmmm...

~Doc

[Island Drive]

Well, there you have it then. Interesting though that if a ball hits the light fixture, and comes back to rest on the playing surface it is considered a ball off the table; whereas if it climbs up onto the support rail and comes back to the playing area, it's considered "in play". hmmmm...

~Doc

I was playing Vickery years ago on a 7 footer, broke the balls, cue ball went vertical into the bar table light. Game over.........fluorescent shards made that call.

[beatle]

who is to determine if it hit the light fixture and it would have gone off the table

and who determines which rules you are playing by and where can you find these rules during the game.

rules are fine as long as everyone knows what they are, can find them to prove it, and are not ambiguous to argue over. just like these posts.

[Island Drive]

who is to determine if it hit the light fixture and it would have gone off the table

and who determines which rules you are playing by and where can you find these rules during the game.

rules are fine as long as everyone knows what they are, can find them to prove it, and are not ambiguous to argue over. just like these posts.

Both 4' bulbs BROKE..................and thousands of glass pieces were on the table.......that spoke for itself. We could of cared less where the cue ball was.

[cincy_kid]

If the CB goes up on the rail and stays I would think foul but if it pops up and then ends up back on the table, that is a different story, IMO.

It reminds me of the Grady shot he showed in his video on getting position on a ball up table when you have almost a straight in shot down at the opposite end on the short rail.

The idea was to stroke the shot and kind of pop the cue ball so that after it made contact with the OB, the CB would pop up a little bit, hit the edge of the rail and bounce down table.

It's this one:
https://youtu.be/AJWBthmM4DI?t=579

[gulfportdoc]

That's a very useful tape, CK. Grady made some great ones. The one on 1P is fascinating.

[vapros]

Grady kept a notebook with helpful information for his gambling. If I remember correctly, his note for the first shot on that video was that you don't try it when you're on short money!