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Foul or no foul?

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  • Foul or no foul?

    James Leone of Buffalo’s posted a short video on FB which I don’t know how to load to this thread. Danny S. is playing Evan L. and Danny shoots a ball with the CB hopping onto and remaining on top of a rail. Danny apparently said Evan had to play it from on top of the rail. Is the CB played from where it sits or is it a foul with ball in hand from the kitchen? Is the felted part of the top of rail considered playing surface of the table?

    I would consider it a foul for leaving and remaining off the playing surface, but I’m unsure that I’m correct. What say you???
    Live long and play strong,
    -Chicagomike

  • #2
    That would be a foul to me too Mike (unless previously discussed and agreed among the players to do otherwise).

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    • #3
      Foul. Ball is no longer on the playing surface

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      • #4
        Originally posted by crabbcatjohn View Post
        Foul. Ball is no longer on the playing surface
        ^^^^ this ^^^

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        • #5
          Its not on play but I have an observation. Any table measurement is from all the green you can see. So where the feather stripping is is felt and that is included in any table measurement so if its part of a table measurement then why isn't it considered playing surface?

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          • #6
            Yes, I agree! If the ball or cb jumps and remains upon the rail, it is a foul, but if it returns to the playing surface it is not a foul, unless it contacts something other than the table itself. Such as: chalk, cue, player, light fixture, and so forth.
            We've seen shots whereas the cb is pretty straight on with ob just off the end rail, and there is no real angle to work with, so they stroke down on the cb to make it hop upon the rail and then roll off for shape.
            But this brings up something quite interesting, and that is just plain simple chalk. If the ball jumped contacts a piece of chalk it is a foul even though it comes back onto the playing surface.
            So this brings me to proper etiquette of pool. It is and has always been proper etiquette to remove your chalk when your inning is over. A decade ago in watching pro's they would remove their chalk, and even if they forgot they would use an opportune time to retrieve it as to courteously not to interfere with the player shooting. Some players are alright with additional chalk on the table and some are not. But now days this etiquette is all but forgot and is considerably abused.

            An interesting note; the old original rule of a ball being jumped off the table is that if it hit the light fixture and returned to the table it was not a foul, and that is why now days the rule specifically mentions that contacting the light fixture is a foul. The original rule is how OP was played during it's Jansco Johnston City origins, and I believe it should be played that way today. For a light fixture is different than a chalk, a cue or a player for these are obstructions that the players created, a light fixture is not! Whitey
            Last edited by Dennis "Whitey" Young; 06-12-2019, 05:46 PM. Reason: wanted to stay more on point!

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            • #7
              I am fairly certain Evan picked the CB up and told Danny to spot one up.

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              • #8
                just a question for people if a cue ball where to bounce on to the rail and past the felt and come back to the playing surface is it a foul as it left the playing surface when it left the felt on the rails ?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by catkins View Post
                  just a question for people if a cue ball where to bounce on to the rail and past the felt and come back to the playing surface is it a foul as it left the playing surface when it left the felt on the rails ?
                  No foul....

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                  • #10
                    No more a foul, I would think, than taking a jump cue and hitting them fungo shots.
                    If it ain't funny, it ain't much.

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                    • #11
                      Foul. Playing surface is measured from the tip of the rails.
                      "I'm gettin worse everyday and right now
                      I'm playing like it's next year"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by chicagomike View Post
                        James Leone of Buffalo’s posted a short video on FB which I don’t know how to load to this thread. Danny S. is playing Evan L. and Danny shoots a ball with the CB hopping onto and remaining on top of a rail. Danny apparently said Evan had to play it from on top of the rail. Is the CB played from where it sits or is it a foul with ball in hand from the kitchen? Is the felted part of the top of rail considered playing surface of the table?

                        I would consider it a foul for leaving and remaining off the playing surface, but I’m unsure that I’m correct. What say you???
                        its a foul
                        here is why imho
                        if the cue ball is "sitting " on the rail
                        since the clothed part of the rail is beveled
                        the cue ball HAS to be touching the non felt part of the rail
                        which in no way can be considered part of the "playing surface"
                        also fwiw
                        the playing surface is where the balls roll
                        ie with in the nose of the rails
                        jmho
                        icbw

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                        • #13
                          the reason the light was never a foul was that in the old pool rooms we had a hanging light not so far off the table and on the break in rotation games the cue ball often jumped up and hit it.
                          we also played not matter where it went if it came to rest on green then it was playable and no foul.

                          you make rules such that they are the same for both parties so the rule is neutral, and also so there wont be any argument over what the ruling is.

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                          • #14
                            We seem to have a variety of opinions as to why this shot should be considered a foul. As beatle says, rules whenever possible, need to leave no doubt, leave no room for subjective reckoning.

                            3C says if the CB touches anything other than felt, OR if the CB fails to return to the flat felt playing surface, it is a foul. Yet, I am sure I have seen shots, even deliberate shots, played off the top back part of a pocket with the CB that were perfectly legal.

                            lll thinks that because all felt covered rails are "beveled", the CB can't possibly sit on the top of the cloth rail without touching or having touched some other material. Yet I am sure I have seen in lo' these many years many tables whose rails are NOT beveled, and so could support a ball sitting there without having touched anything other than felt.

                            I would advocate that a ball that leaves the playing surface and fails to return to the flat felt playing surface on it's own (without interference by the shooter)is a foul. Why do we need say anything further? Is this goring somebody's oxen?
                            The early bird may get the worm...but the second mouse gets the cheese...Shutin@urholeisOVERATED.

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                            • #15
                              Foul or no foul?

                              Danny just said that in jest I’m sure.

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