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WWYD at The Broken Rack

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  • #16
    I'm cutting the 13 for my pocket with a firm stroke. I would want to give myself the best chance I can get to pocket the ball so whatever I need to do to accomplish that, that is how I will want to play the shot. I have also played the shot with a zig zag pattern on the cue ball, sending it side rail side rail towards the ball near my opponent's pocket. This I might do if I feel the three balls are ideally positioned. I've played this shot in this way numerous times with a high success rate. There is a reasonable chance I can leave the cue ball down low and along his side rail. If that happens he won't have much of a shot on it. Either way I'm shooting of my pocket in this situation.

    As was stated by others, there are several ways to sell out the kick shot which is a purely defensive shot. The cut shot is not much more difficult, so for my money I'd rather go down swinging than I would ducking. This also sends a message. I know of no player who prefers seeing their opponent shooting at their hole verses playing safeties.

    One more thing that favors the cut shot for me. If miss the shot but I over cut the 13, it will run three rails towards the top left corner essentially taking it out of play. I'm very likely still in the hunt should I sell out that one ball.

    One other factor that was not mentioned. Is the 13 ball past the foul line? If it is than anyone contemplating the kick is asking for trouble.

    Tom
    Last edited by Tom Wirth; 09-06-2019, 06:09 PM.

    "Controlled Aggression" trwirth369@gmail.com

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    • #17
      The 13 is on the line, so not available in the event of scratch. What would you guess is your make percentage on that 13 ball?

      Originally posted by Tom Wirth View Post
      I'm cutting the 13 for my pocket with a firm stroke. I would want to give myself the best chance I can get to pocket the ball so whatever I need to do to accomplish that, that is how I will want to play the shot. I have also played the shot with a zig zag pattern on the cue ball, sending it side rail side rail towards the ball near my opponent's pocket. This I might do if I feel the three balls are ideally positioned. I've played this shot in this way numerous times with a high success rate. There is a reasonable chance I can leave the cue ball down low and along his side rail. If that happens he won't have much of a shot on it. Either way I'm shooting of my pocket in this situation.

      As was stated by others, there are several ways to sell out the kick shot which is a purely defensive shot. The cut shot is not much more difficult, so for my money I'd rather go down swinging than I would ducking. This also sends a message. I know of no player who prefers seeing their opponent shooting at their hole verses playing safeties.

      One more thing that favors the cut shot for me. If miss the shot but I over cut the 13, it will run three rails towards the top left corner essentially taking it out of play. I'm very likely still in the hunt should I sell out that one ball.

      One other factor that was not mentioned. Is the 13 ball past the foul line? If it is than anyone contemplating the kick is asking for trouble.

      Tom

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      • #18
        I'll keep that estimate to myself, thanks.
        Some things need to be found out the hard way.

        Tom

        "Controlled Aggression" trwirth369@gmail.com

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        • #19
          WWYD at The Broken Rack

          Originally posted by 12squared View Post
          If you want to shoot, how about banking the 13 and spininning the cue to take out the 10(?) in the corner? But I am in the camp to kick at the 10 ball using the short rail as the 2nd rail to try to bank that ball to my side.


          Finally somebody selected my shot lol. Good go off eye 👁 Dave. I’m just lucky enough to pull it off. Lol
          Mitch needs to remember to play the score and that it's better to win than to look like a hero.

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          • #20
            I am either kicking or possibly playing safe on top of the 13. Which may be an intentional foul. While many will disagree with my line of thinking here if I am playing for 20 I might just go for it but if I am playing for over 100 a game I am probably looking for a way to duck.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by wincardona View Post
              As a 9/7 dog playing the game shooting the 13ball would be a viable option IMO, however, if you were a 9/7 favorite facing this situation then what would you do? I'm kicking for sure. And as a 9/7 dog facing this situation I'm 50/50 shooting the 13ball but if I'm feeling good then I'm shooting.

              Dr. Bill
              Well I took the kick shot and the cut shot to the table and they were both sell outs. Only shooting them ONCE, as in a game situation. As I looked for another option I came up with what I believe to be the highest % of execution. Shoot the cb down the rail and have it nudge the 13 ball, cb hits a rail and both balls stick together with the 13 ball straight in to your pocket and the cb 1\2 inch from it. Shot this option 1 time and hit it perfect! The incoming player has no option but to let you move the 10 ball.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Kybanks View Post
                Well I took the kick shot and the cut shot to the table and they were both sell outs. Only shooting them ONCE, as in a game situation. As I looked for another option I came up with what I believe to be the highest % of execution. Shoot the cb down the rail and have it nudge the 13 ball, cb hits a rail and both balls stick together with the 13 ball straight in to your pocket and the cb 1\2 inch from it. Shot this option 1 time and hit it perfect! The incoming player has no option but to let you move the 10 ball.
                This was the shot I was talking about as one of my options.

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                • #23
                  13 appears less then a ball width off the rail?
                  I believe 13 is just about a ball off the rail so I dont see nudging it and getting safe with out fouling?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Thecoats View Post
                    This was the shot I was talking about as one of my options.
                    That's what I like, and easy to execute!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 12squared View Post
                      If you want to shoot, how about banking the 13 and spininning the cue to take out the 10(?) in the corner? But I am in the camp to kick at the 10 ball using the short rail as the 2nd rail to try to bank that ball to my side.
                      Would work for a billiard player. What if you get underneath and scratch? Both balls are now in the open.
                      JOHN HENDERSON
                      Al Romero Cue
                      Magic Chalk

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                      • #26
                        I am possibly the worst ball maker in this group, but even I am shooting at my hole on this shot. The absolute last thing I would do, is shoot the 13 at the 10, I had to find out the hard way as usual , that so many things can go wrong on this kind of shot, especially double kisses.

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                        • #27
                          Anything but the kick with both you needing two is careless to say the least, a two rail kick underneath the ball doesn't have much chance of a scratch and a nudge/maybe foul has 0 chance, I'd rather foul under that ball than just give it up on a careless hail mary.

                          My other option if I have to pick one is two railing the 13 with enough speed to send it back towards the 14 if missed, stun drawing the cue ball back towards the corner pocket and short rail, even if you give up the 10 ball dont leave the cross bank to lose.

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                          • #28
                            I've played a lot of golf so this is a bit of a specialty shot for me. Especially on fresh cloth and the fact that the pocket lets me comfortably see the bottom of the cueball. My biggest problem is overspinning it and cutting it in.

                            I would ONLY recommend this for those who know and have developed a feel for this shot. If you kick it from behind you are a 6:1 favorite to get safe.
                            Attached Files
                            Regards,

                            Nick B

                            Name: Nick Beretanos
                            Location: Vancouver BC

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                            • #29
                              This is what makes one hole the best of all the pool games. Out of this fairly simple situation, with only a few viable options available, comes such a useful outpouring of wisdom and experience. As I stood there waiting for Joe to decide and shoot, I thought he'd go for the cut shot because he is more of a shooter than a mover, and he's willing to lose the ranch on a tough shot. I also thought to myself that if it were me in his shoes, I wouldn't want to lose the game on this shot, so I'd go for the kick and try and lay the cue ball down under the ball near my hole, not touching the 10 at all, a shot that should be pretty easy to execute. I'd take the penalty figuring that whatever he does, I'd be able to knock that ball away on my next shot, and I'd still be alive. Cutting the 13 or using it to try and knock away the 10 never featured in my considerations. In my estimation, I'd like to say that I can cut that 13 in maybe half the time but the truth is likely less than that. Knowing that it is an almost certain loser if I fail makes it harder to execute, too. I like Dave's billiards shot, and would try to come off the short rail into the back of the 10, but c'mon, the odds don't favor that kind of heroic adventurism.

                              After looking 'em over, Joe got down to shoot the kick shot, but for reasons I'm not clear on, he badly miscued and fouled leaving the cue ball in the middle of the table. I made the duck and got position on the 13 and got out for the game.


                              Disgusted, Joe set up the balls again using my picture and showed me what he intended to do, a shot that nobody here devined: he kicked it two rails and pushed the 10 ball away from my pocket, as shown in the attached picture. He insisted that was the plan, with an intent to aim it so that if he missed the 10 ball the cue ball would just slide to the short rail and stay below the ball. Pretty elegant solution, and he pulled it off (with a second chance.)
                              Attached Files

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Tobermory View Post
                                he kicked it two rails and pushed the 10 ball away from my pocket, as shown in the attached picture. He insisted that was the plan, with an intent to aim it so that if he missed the 10 ball the cue ball would just slide to the short rail and stay below the ball. Pretty elegant solution, and he pulled it off (with a second chance.)
                                Risky, no?
                                It looks like the 10 doesn't need much to become a return bank (see bellow).
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by Seb Pauchon; 09-07-2019, 01:28 PM.

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