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Ghost vs. John 47 wwyd?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by wincardona View Post
    This is one of those rare times when the balls lay good for the shooter freakishly positioned to where the shooter needing all four balls can bank the 12ball into the outside of the 5ball and possibly pocket the 10ball off the 12ball while sending the 5ball to his side in the process. Would I shoot this shot? You bet I would needing all the balls.

    That's another reason I like positioning the 5ball near the 12ball on the top rail, it's very difficult getting creative with balls on the top rail as opposed to balls on the side rail.
    Dr. Bill
    I set this position up on my table and on the first and only try I pocketed the 10ball off the 12ball and pocketed the 5ball in the opposite side. The 12ball ended up near the first diamond on the foot rail. Wow!! With two balls positioned near the top rail and the 8ball positioned deeply on the side rail it's much more difficult sending two balls toward your side of the table especially if the two balls are tied up near the top rail.

    Dr. Bill

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Tom Wirth View Post
      I have one question for you guys who plan on moving the 5 ball up table and allowing your opponent to pocket the 10 ball themselves.
      What makes you think that is their only option? Okay, two questions. So if they don't choose to pocket the 10, where would you want to place the 5 and cue balls and what might they do in response?

      And for those of you who want to somehow pocket the 10 ball. Do you really want to take even a slim chance of coming off the hill when your opponent needs four and two of them are currently out of play?

      Tom
      This position is exactly what you were referring to, good call. Like I mentioned the best position to place the 5ball is on the top rail near or preferably under the 12ball, that will eliminate all this nonsense stuff like this from developing.

      The Ghost is a very slick mover and understands the game as well as anyone but sometimes even the slightest miscalculation of what to do in terms of being meticulous often slips by even the slickest of us.


      Dr. Bill

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by darmoose View Post
        If you are referring to the prop bet that I have proposed, while that would indeed be the smartest move the incoming player could make, it is not the bet.

        The bet is which initial shot is most likely to allow the incoming player to make a ball other than the 10 ball which we are sacrificing. The incoming player doesn't have to make the 10 ball first, but he must make two balls during his inning in order to prove that my opening shot is less favorable than his. I must pocket the 5 ball to prove his is not the correct opening shot. (i.e.) if we try it 10 times, I will pocket that five ball more than you will make a ball other than the 10 ball, no matter the order you decide to shoot them.



        True, but not the prop bet (see above).




        Also true.




        The ultimate truth, and the one that counts, don't you see?
        You assume that my understanding is lesser than yours? I understand that being understanding is understandable in certain understandings.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Kybanks View Post
          You are assuming that everyone will pocket the 10 ball and try to play position on those three balls in the corner. What happens if the incoming player shoots a shot that puts 2 balls in play and leaves the 10 ball Still hanging in his hole? This is such a dangerous position that just moving the 5 ball doesn't solve!
          Again, good call. Hope everyone understands this situation and learned from the results. Playing the 5ball to a safe position was and is still the best option but it's not that simple as we have seen. Moving balls to the top rail make it more difficult to send two balls down table as opposed to moving balls to the side rail when there is a ball positioned on the top rail that can be used as a ball to bank into a ball on the side rail.

          Dr. Bill

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by unoperro View Post
            OPG I think you put up a good wwyd.

            Another lesson to be learned from the Ghost.
            Thanks for sayin' bro...


            Originally posted by Island Drive View Post
            Ghost You read a post and shot you ''wish'' you had thought of....I know you like it, because the 2 rail cross corner scratch is NOT there. You, like the pilot, Love free shots to change the game with no chance of a foul.
            Bill, I don't just like your shot - I LOVE IT! - just as long as it's my opponent that's shooting it......
            Attached Files
            Last edited by One Pocket Ghost; 10-11-2019, 05:16 PM.
            jrhendy: Ghost does come up with shots that others don't see.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by wincardona View Post
              Again, good call. Hope everyone understands this situation and learned from the results. Playing the 5ball to a safe position was and is still the best option but it's not that simple as we have seen. Moving balls to the top rail make it more difficult to send two balls down table as opposed to moving balls to the side rail when there is a ball positioned on the top rail that can be used as a ball to bank into a ball on the side rail.

              Dr. Bill
              At least someone found the shot!

              Comment


              • #67
                Troubles with trying to pocket the ten ball.
                With the position of the ten ball, if you masse there is a good chance to double hit it and not make it. And if you do make it you might follow the cue ball in too, Also you might dog the stroke and not get enough curve to make the ten.

                Kicking it in and having to go a bit over 18 ft is a bit chancy too. Plus it you hit it too good you might also follow in.

                The carom off the five ball will require a fair amount of speed making it it hard to control the five ball along with the fact that you might miss hit it and not pocket the ten ball. The carom is not a natural hit and will require a bit of draw.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Frank Almanza View Post
                  Troubles with trying to pocket the ten ball.
                  With the position of the ten ball, if you masse there is a good chance to double hit it and not make it. And if you do make it you might follow the cue ball in too, Also you might dog the stroke and not get enough curve to make the ten.

                  Kicking it in and having to go a bit over 18 ft is a bit chancy too. Plus it you hit it too good you might also follow in.

                  The carom off the five ball will require a fair amount of speed making it it hard to control the five ball along with the fact that you might miss hit it and not pocket the ten ball. The carom is not a natural hit and will require a bit of draw.
                  Frank you're spot on again with your thinking, when ever you and I agree with something it makes me feel good knowing that I chose the correct shot.

                  Dr. Bill

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                    I set this position up on my table and on the first and only try I pocketed the 10ball off the 12ball and pocketed the 5ball in the opposite side. Bill, I'm confused by this sentence.
                    The 12ball ended up near the first diamond on the foot rail. Wow!! With two balls positioned near the top rail and the 8ball positioned deeply on the side rail it's much more difficult sending two balls toward your side of the table especially if the two balls are tied up near the top rail.

                    Dr. Bill
                    We are in total agreement that moving the 5 ball out is the proper shot here I just have a different idea of where I wish to leave it and the cue ball.

                    [QUOTE=wincardona;265502]This position is exactly what you were referring to, good call. Like I mentioned the best position to place the 5ball is on the top rail near or preferably under the 12ball, that will eliminate all this nonsense stuff like this from developing. position but again, that is one of the most difficult banks to make even
                    The Ghost is a very slick mover and understands the game as well as anyone but sometimes even the slightest miscalculation of what to do in terms of being meticulous often slips by even the slickest of us.


                    Dr. Bill[/QUOTE

                    Bill, Placing the 5 ball near the other two balls is not what I recommended. I do not want to risk giving my opponent an opportunity to pocket one of those balls and hooking me behind one of the other two while leaving the 10 ball still hanging. This is why I suggest leaving the 5 ball below the 8 so he can not pocket either the 8 or 12 without giving up a decent shot on the 5. This does leave a possible cross corner bank on the 5 should he be able to maneuver the cue ball into an ideal position but even if he does obtain good position on the bank, in terms of percentages it is one of the more difficult straight forward banks out there. Also, leaving the cue ball where the 5 is now will require the use of a bridge for most players, right handed or left. This will make playing position that much more difficult.

                    Tom
                    Last edited by Tom Wirth; 10-11-2019, 07:48 PM.

                    "Controlled Aggression" trwirth369@gmail.com

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by wincardona View Post

                      The Ghost is a very slick mover and understands the game as well as anyone but sometimes even the slightest miscalculation in terms of being meticulous often slips by even the slickest of us.


                      Dr. Bill

                      Billy, don't forget I'm shooting here from out of the jaws of the pocket, so it's not to be expected to precisely control the cueball and the 5 when shooting this shot...that said, I was satisfied with my execution and my result...and then...

                      John shot the 10 in while trying to also get some kind of shape on one of the up-table balls - unsurprisingly he didn't get any shape, and we played from there at the 7-5 score.

                      P.S. >>>

                      Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                      the shooter needing all four balls can bank the 12ball into the outside of the 5ball and possibly pocket the 10ball off the 12ball while sending the 5ball to his side in the process. Would I shoot this shot? You bet I would needing all the balls.

                      Dr. Bill
                      Sure my opponent could shoot this flyer...but he's waay more likely to end up leaving me a cut shot or a cross-corner bank than for it to turn out good for him......

                      And I'd LOVE to prop-bet that with you next time you come up here...



                      - Ghost
                      Last edited by One Pocket Ghost; 10-11-2019, 08:08 PM.
                      jrhendy: Ghost does come up with shots that others don't see.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
                        Billy, don't forget I'm shooting here from out of the jaws of the pocket, so it's not to be expected to precisely control the cueball and the 5 when shooting this shot...that said, I was satisfied with my execution and my result...and then...

                        John shot the 10 in while trying to also get some kind of shape on one of the up-table balls - unsurprisingly he didn't get any shape, and we played from there at the 7-5 score.

                        P.S. >>>



                        Sure my opponent could shoot this flyer...but he's waay more likely to end up leaving me a cut shot or a cross-corner bank than for it to turn out good for him......

                        And I'd LOVE to prop-bet that with you next time you come up here...



                        - Ghost
                        Be careful what you ask for Ghosty Needing all four balls if the shot lays well it's a very viable option. Like I mentioned I pocketed the 10ball off the 12ball and the 5ball fell into the side pocket while the 12ball rested close to my pocket near the 1st diamond on the head rail.

                        Don't forget with three balls now down table and the 10ball hanging in my pocket you're not going to shoot at your hole from the top rail unless it's a hanger. So do you still want to prop bet my return option against what ever shot you choose?

                        And am I understanding this correctly when you say you are comfortable with your leave placing the 5ball on the side rail as opposed to placing it near the 12ball?


                        Dr. Bill

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by One Pocket Ghost View Post
                          As Billy reiterates here ^^^ ...


                          So obviously, taking the 5 out of play is what I chose to shoot in this position, and if my opponent can get shape to bank the 5ball cross-corner next - God bless him - I'll tap my stick and say "nice shot"......and hey Tom, did I leave the cueball just about where you also wanted to?... >>>
                          Yes Ghost, this is just about where I would want the 5. I think you brought the cue ball out a bit too far from the side rail which allows your opponent a better angle to play the ten but You did well.

                          If I understand Billy correctly now. He is thinking forward from this position and played a bank carom (12 into the edge of the five) sending both balls his way. Am I right here Bill? Nice shot but one not likely to be anticipated. Wouldn't you agree the angles must be just right for that scenario?

                          Tom

                          "Controlled Aggression" trwirth369@gmail.com

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Kybanks View Post
                            You assume that my understanding is lesser than yours? I understand that being understanding is understandable in certain understandings.

                            That's funny,Ky..

                            I try not to assume anything, but sometimes I slip
                            The early bird may get the worm...but the second mouse gets the cheese...Shutin@urholeisOVERATED.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Frank Almanza View Post
                              Troubles with trying to pocket the ten ball.
                              With the position of the ten ball, if you masse there is a good chance to double hit it and not make it. And if you do make it you might follow the cue ball in too, Also you might dog the stroke and not get enough curve to make the ten.

                              Kicking it in and having to go a bit over 18 ft is a bit chancy too. Plus it you hit it too good you might also follow in.

                              The carom off the five ball will require a fair amount of speed making it it hard to control the five ball along with the fact that you might miss hit it and not pocket the ten ball. The carom is not a natural hit and will require a bit of draw.
                              Frank,

                              You make waaaaay to much sense for all these gophers.
                              The early bird may get the worm...but the second mouse gets the cheese...Shutin@urholeisOVERATED.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                that is what i alluded to in my posts that sending the 5 up there can leave shots that can send balls back towards his hole while he leaves the ten there. where it was left is exactly one of them.

                                if you leave it where billy said you may not leave him that option but a little off and it pops up again.

                                for me i know i can almost always bank that ten in from the jaws. so that is still my shot.

                                thanks for the wwyd ghost it was a good one that looked to each side an easy pick.

                                Comment

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