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  • #46
    As far as the problem of how to implement a time clock into OP events and tournaments, I like the chess style clocks as the most available, least expensive, and easily workable solutions.

    In larger events like the Accustat matches the digital clock viewable to spectators and operated by a monitor is the best and works well.

    In lesser events, streams, tournaments, and even individual gambling matches (where agreed upon) I would use the chess style clock where each player is responsible to press a button to start his opponents time. If he fails to do so then his opponent benefits, so what. I am not the least concerned that it may take 10 or 15 seconds for a player to get over to the time clock to start his opponents time, again so what. Some players who see that their opponent is already a fast player may even opt to not set the clock which is their choice and that's fine too.

    Everything like this, changes to games, have a learning curve. It will take some time to acclimate players and TD's and event promoters as well as spectators to a time clock. The result, once the bugs are worked out will be great and will help OP on all fronts.

    Players need to come to the understanding that this is good for their future and the longevity and growth of the game(s).

    ...And that's the truth.

    P.S. I can't imagine a better place to test trial time clocks than a One Pocket. org MOT. Who better to try to better our game and put a stop to all the silly bad habits of some. and improve OP for audiences. This group has got to be the most interested and most knowledgeable OP group on the planet.
    Last edited by darmoose; 11-08-2019, 11:20 AM. Reason: added thought
    The early bird may get the worm...but the second mouse gets the cheese...Shutin@urholeisOVERATED.

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    • #47
      I have this app on my Android phone. It includes a shot clock. Works good.
      https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...clock&hl=en_US

      They also have the app designed for a terminal to be used per table for events.
      https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...minal&hl=en_US
      Last edited by oldschool1478; 11-08-2019, 12:37 PM. Reason: added info
      Dan

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      • #48
        I don't watch much pool, if it's something I can't fast forward, it's out.
        Rod.

        Rodney Stephens.
        (e-mail) rod.stephens0105@att.net(e-mail) #713-973-0503 is now working

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        • #49
          Originally posted by darmoose View Post
          As far as the problem of how to implement a time clock into OP events and tournaments, I like the chess style clocks as the most available, least expensive, and easily workable solutions.
          Trying to find a way to reduce the amount of staring and thinking in order to shorten the amount of time it takes to complete a tournament is a worthwhile pursuit.

          I am personally more interested in growing the universe of people interested in 1P. I think a worthwhile step in this direction would be the inclusion of a shot clock -- similar to Accu-Stats model -- only on the TV tables during streams.

          I think this would increase -- maybe even dramatically -- the number of stream viewers within a reasonably short period of time.

          For other tournament matches I like the idea of a chess clock but I'm concerned about the deficiencies noted by Skin in post #35 of this thread. I think chess clock is not ready for prime time at the current state of technology as I understand it.

          (Good analysis, Skin... we missed you around here.)

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          • #50
            as el chapo says and i have been saying for years. if you have a tournament director with balls. he will just tell the slow players that they cant come unless they play the same speed as everyone else does. and they will get a warning or two and if then they arent fast they will be disqualified and not invited again.

            they will speed up quickly. you dont need to ruin a good thing with clocks on people that dont need them. just punish the ones that do.

            if you have a party do you invite the drunk that starts a fight all the time even if he is related. if you do you are a fool.
            in every sport but pool i can think of those that cause problems are ostracized in some way.

            it seems the american way now is to let the problem makers make all the others pay in some way for their transgressions.

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            • #51
              What is a reasonable time allowed for a shot, exception 1st shot after the break, 30 secs to 1min. somewhere in there. WPA allows 30 secs but does not govern OP.
              Our concern is MOT which has always ran over. Players meeting could decide a time per shot, and how to proceed, whether it is for all matches or just slow matches.

              Lets use 1 min. for an example: 1 min. / shot w/ 15 sec. warning/ allowing for 2 extensions of 30 secs./game.

              So @ 45 secs. the opponent states 15 secs. and then the shooter has to shoot within 15 secs. or a point is deducted. Shooter can ask for an extension prior to time elapsing. This all seems fair to me and is the way many tournaments handle time per shot.

              Patrick Johnson, may want to wade in on this on how your phone can be set up for the warning to sound at the end of the 15 secs. warning.

              Again, I as an opponent playing someone, would only use this if they are continuing to take a boringly long time to shoot. The other side is that sometimes games take a long time even though players play at a reasonable pace. Whitey

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young View Post
                What is a reasonable time allowed for a shot, exception 1st shot after the break, 30 secs to 1min. somewhere in there. WPA allows 30 secs but does not govern OP.
                Our concern is MOT which has always ran over. Players meeting could decide a time per shot, and how to proceed, whether it is for all matches or just slow matches.

                Lets use 1 min. for an example: 1 min. / shot w/ 15 sec. warning/ allowing for 2 extensions of 30 secs./game.

                So @ 45 secs. the opponent states 15 secs. and then the shooter has to shoot within 15 secs. or a point is deducted. Shooter can ask for an extension prior to time elapsing. This all seems fair to me and is the way many tournaments handle time per shot.

                Patrick Johnson, may want to wade in on this on how your phone can be set up for the warning to sound at the end of the 15 secs. warning.

                Again, I as an opponent playing someone, would only use this if they are continuing to take a boringly long time to shoot. The other side is that sometimes games take a long time even though players play at a reasonable pace. Whitey
                Dennis, the app I posted above allows custom timing.
                Dan

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                • #53
                  it is a totally different question in my eyes to impose a clock in a tournament and when gambling. If you can't deal with some one playing slow than that honestly seems like a good thing to do when playing you and if you cant fix that problem your self than your not working hard enough on your game in my opinion. In a tournament it only makes to impose a time limit for the entire match at at 30 minutes before the end of that time limit inform the players that who ever is ahead when time runs out wins!

                  jmo
                  chris

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by catkins View Post
                    it is a totally different question in my eyes to impose a clock in a tournament and when gambling. If you can't deal with some one playing slow than that honestly seems like a good thing to do when playing you and if you cant fix that problem your self than your not working hard enough on your game in my opinion. In a tournament it only makes to impose a time limit for the entire match at at 30 minutes before the end of that time limit inform the players that who ever is ahead when time runs out wins!

                    jmo
                    chris
                    Imposing A time limit only encourages slow play by whom ever is ahead

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by LSJohn View Post
                      Trying to find a way to reduce the amount of staring and thinking in order to shorten the amount of time it takes to complete a tournament is a worthwhile pursuit.

                      For other tournament matches I like the idea of a chess clock but I'm concerned about the deficiencies noted by Skin in post #35 of this thread. I think chess clock is not ready for prime time at the current state of technology as I understand it.

                      (Good analysis, Skin... we missed you around here.)
                      LSJ,

                      Allow me to alleviate your concerns.

                      Skins noted "deficiencies" are actually not applicable as I see it. He is assuming that once a player completes his inning, he has to hurry over to the clock and stop it. He does not.

                      That type of clock used in chess is recording the remaining time left in a time limited game. This is not that.

                      The type of clock I invision has a prescribed time at which the alarm sounds, say, 60 seconds. At the alarm, the players follow the rules. The shooter's extension starts when the opponent sitting hits the button to restart the clock for another 60 seconds, or if no extension exists a one ball penalty is levied (to be paid when the shooter's inning is over), and the sitting player restarts the clock for another 60 seconds.

                      There is no need to hurry over to stop the clock after you conclude your inning. The only action to be taken at the conclusion of your inning is for you to start the clock for your opponent who is approaching the table. If you manage to do this in 2 seconds or 15 seconds that is up to you (or you have the option not to do it at all) if your opponent is already playing fast enough for you.

                      I don't see how this could be simpler or easier or fairer. If we are not willing to make the simple and necessary changes to solve problems and just wish to bitch about slow play, the game will not gain in popularity, as we all know it should.

                      "we must not let the quest for perfection be the enemy of good enough"
                      The early bird may get the worm...but the second mouse gets the cheese...Shutin@urholeisOVERATED.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by darmoose View Post
                        LSJ,

                        Allow me to alleviate your concerns.

                        Skins noted "deficiencies" are actually not applicable as I see it. He is assuming that once a player completes his inning, he has to hurry over to the clock and stop it. He does not.

                        That type of clock used in chess is recording the remaining time left in a time limited game. This is not that.

                        The type of clock I invision has a prescribed time at which the alarm sounds, say, 60 seconds. At the alarm, the players follow the rules. The shooter's extension starts when the opponent sitting hits the button to restart the clock for another 60 seconds, or if no extension exists a one ball penalty is levied (to be paid when the shooter's inning is over), and the sitting player restarts the clock for another 60 seconds.

                        There is no need to hurry over to stop the clock after you conclude your inning. The only action to be taken at the conclusion of your inning is for you to start the clock for your opponent who is approaching the table. If you manage to do this in 2 seconds or 15 seconds that is up to you (or you have the option not to do it at all) if your opponent is already playing fast enough for you.

                        I don't see how this could be simpler or easier or fairer. If we are not willing to make the simple and necessary changes to solve problems and just wish to bitch about slow play, the game will not gain in popularity, as we all know it should.

                        "we must not let the quest for perfection be the enemy of good enough"
                        I was responding to what I assumed Bob Jewett meant by using a chess clock since he described adding seconds for quick moves as they do in timed chess using the clock. That's why I thought of players rushing to stop the clock to save the limited allotted time for the game. Maybe I misunderstood. It wouldn't be the first time.

                        But your idea, darmoose, is a better option, imo. Maybe it will help, especially when you get a guy who looks them over all day, gets down, takes a couple of strokes, and then gets back up to rinse and repeat 3 or 4 times. That specific thing alone makes Orcollo unwatchable for me.

                        N.B. And howdy, LSJohn. I'm glad to have a little more free time now to hang out with you guys more.
                        Skin

                        "It's easy!" - Coach Acosta, former Mexican pro, instructing his 10 y/o little leaguers

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Skin View Post
                          I was responding to what I assumed Bob Jewett meant by using a chess clock since he described adding seconds for quick moves as they do in timed chess using the clock. That's why I thought of players rushing to stop the clock to save the limited allotted time for the game. Maybe I misunderstood. It wouldn't be the first time.

                          But your idea, darmoose, is a better option, imo. Maybe it will help, especially when you get a guy who looks them over all day, gets down, takes a couple of strokes, and then gets back up to rinse and repeat 3 or 4 times. That specific thing alone makes Orcollo unwatchable for me.

                          N.B. And howdy, LSJohn. I'm glad to have a little more free time now to hang out with you guys more.
                          Thanks Skin. I understand. Nothing wrong with what you were saying or repeating, it is just a different kind of clock.

                          Appreciate your opinion. I just wish we would do something to put an end to this stupidity exhibited by the likes of Dennis, Alex, Justin and others. We should start in our own tournaments to prove the point.

                          These little clocks can be had for 10-15 bucks.
                          The early bird may get the worm...but the second mouse gets the cheese...Shutin@urholeisOVERATED.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by oldschool1478 View Post
                            Dennis, the app I posted above allows custom timing.
                            Oldschool, first it is nice seeing you involved, it has been awhile. Can it be set up in which an alarm (beep) sounds at 45 seconds signaling 15 secs. remaining which thereafter a deduction of a point occurs if the shooter has not shot within that time period, which is once again signaled by another beep at the end of the 1 min./shot allowable limited / shot. Player can state @ 45 secs or thereafter before the 15 sec. warning has exhausted for an extension if they have an extension available.

                            My statements are only related to MOT! One step at a time, I can not look past that. Fix our own before we try to fix all. If it works for MOT then thereafter other tournament sponsors & common day match ups may look at what we are doing. thanks, Whitey

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                            • #59
                              Here is a screenshot of the shot clock settings page.
                              You need to get the Pro version.
                              https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ckpro&hl=en_US
                              Attached Files
                              Dan

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by oldschool1478 View Post
                                Here is a screenshot of the shot clock settings page.
                                You need to get the Pro version.
                                https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...ckpro&hl=en_US
                                Oldschool, this looks like it falls right into place with how some of the prestigious tournaments are run. It appears that it can be set up with a warning beep at the time intervals. Correct? Whitey

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