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  • #16
    A little more

    The only knocks I could say about Artie having been the best player in the world are: 1. Longevity, he went to Vegas and quit playing when he was young, not that that was a bad move. Maybe I should have done the same.
    2. He didn't to my knowledge ever beat a top player in an extended match outside of Chicago.

    Comment


    • #17
      A little less

      Hey Grady,you would not remember me.I was a friend of Louie Lemke's and we would travel around to the 9-ball tournaments back around that time,say 83-91 or so.Saw you play some kind of pool then though never the late/all night stuff.Pretty different from the tournament times as you know.I don't know these guys from Chicago and the other roadies you mention,but they must be kind of fearsome to play even with you or a little weight whatever....I sure enjoy the rapport between y'all,just mentioning 5x10's makes me smile when I think of a certain place thats long gone.....hope to see you again on the run one day,adios,Bob

      Comment


      • #18
        Hi Grady let me inlighten you so you understand.I played pool from 18 yeares old to 38 years old And when I played pool I won thousands of dollares but I wanted to win millions.And I won millions of dollares betting sports ans I won more money and bet more money then any one in Las Vegas.My biggest bet was 8hundred thousand dollares and I won.In they super bowel.Do you think I should have kepte playing pool or won they money. And now I am going to give you they real low down.Nobody hustled like I did. And why would I go on they road to play champions and be a hero when I beat a thousand suckers. And never lost because nobody new me. And I was hustling to win they money.And I had people playing me 8to2 for 5 hundred dollares a game.In a pool room in Califonia were Richie Florence hung out.And he got lucky that he was out of town or he would have got trapped. And he would have spotted me 8 to 2. I was a pool hustler not a pool player. And I spread with fat jerry sterling and they barber.And it was gravey. And I had to leave town because they were going to stick me up.Because they found out that. I could play. I laid it down perfect.And if you remember this player tex he was running around looking for a backer to play me 8 to 1. Thats what I did I hustled all over they country and nobody new me and I never told anybody were I was going and who I was going to hustle. Only suckers brag and give up their spots.They road had all sucker like they carnnivale. And it was all about they money. And I will give you a little moreso you see what I was and how I hustled.I was not like Bugs Ronnie and you.I was a pool hustler not a pool player who wanted to play good players for big money. You guys were players not hustlers. And when I hung out at Bensingers and North Shore I got alll they action Iwanted. And I controled all they pool card and sports action. I would back 3 and 4 games at a time with they nuts.Do you still think I should have gone on they road. When I was in on all they good actionin one of they best gambling spots in they country. And I had all they action locked up. And I did they same thing at bensingers and wrigky field. Thats why they FBI and they police were always after me. I would have 3 or 5 games bringing me money .Witch was better then me playing. If you can understand it. Freddy yous to say how come your not in when I lose. Will that isnt hard to figure out that I was in with they other player. And I was looking to beat 3 and four people at a time. Freddy said he must have oppened up they club for me to make all they money. And I said ya Freddy but you are still they bose.And freddy loved it thats what he was all about being they bose not they money. I was about they money. I was always about they money. So are you starting to see they real picture. I was not a pool player or tournament player I was a real pool hustler. And hustling pool is about getting they money. I loved pool But in life we need new challanges and keep our interests up. And new challanges. I could have stayed with pool. But I wanted to win millions. And now you see that it would not be a big deal to go on they road. And I would have missed out on all they big money.If you had all that action in Colorada would you leave all that action and go somewere else? And their was lots of money their more than in they other citys.But nobody realy new what was going on and who was doing what. And I controled all they action.You people are pool players and you love compatition. I was a pool hustler and I loved winning they money.And my hustling came from my carnivale education. And my lession was if you cant win dont play.And I learned to win they money in a lot of games. And I new how to beat and trap everybody. And I was they best one handd three chushion billiard player ever in life. And I won a lot of money playing one handed three cushion billiards.So you see I didnt go on they road to play players I went on they road to beat suckers. And nobody new me . Like they new you bugs and ronnie. And we also had a different act. And nobody new were I was or who I was hustling. One day I was backing 6 games and they all one what a great high. I new how to get a peace of everyones action and I was always in action. Not just waiting for a pool player yo walk in and play. I new how to manover and set up games and styeer people.And I always looked to beat they money people. It was about they money. And when you are done hustling you add up and see what you did with your moey and how much you ended up with. Or were you a sucker and lost they money you one in another game. LOts of pool players are suckers at other games. And they lose their money on gambling at other games they cannot win and have they worst of they percentages. And they go through their whole life being a loser at another game. But that was not me. How but you Freddy? L dont no about you Grady because I dont no what you gambaled at. Only you no what you did. Now that I ex[plained what I was And what I did And how I hustled. You will see why I husled in one place at a time.Because I controled all they action. And if I hung out in another pool room I would control all they action again. Because that is my personality and nature. And you even no now why I quite playing opool to win millions of dollares. And who wouldnt quite playing pool if they could win millions. And that is they truth. And thats my life story.And By they way I can still improve your game by ten percent throuigh knowledge. And teach you all they things you never knew. And you would thank me and your pool knowledge would be complete. And nobody knows but me. And you can belive me or you can say I am full of it. But my record at being sucsesfull specks for itself. And I was never a sucker for any game or took they worst of anything. I hope before your journey ends that you learn they correct way to play one pocket.

        Comment


        • #19
          Freddy you are losing it I would never stake you at pool. And I didnt bet on you playing pool.I would bet on they other player. And if you played another gameoutside of pool I would bet on you And I never lost. But I never bet on you playing pool. And when you played Grady in Milwakie *to 5 or 8 to 6 I dont no who one. And thats when I played Mike Massey we both played one handed eight ball. And I one. And that was when I was going to play Ronnie 11 to 8 and he gets all they breacks. And we both loved they game. And Phil was my backer. And I told you what happened and you changed everything. THey truth is that Ronnie couldnt get a backer to play. And thats all it was. And I would have won. And bugs said Ronnie would have quite and through they stick in because he would not have stood up for that kind of torture. And Ronnie had no clue what he was getting into. And I would have broke him down. And I never lost playing you pool excepte in Tennessee. And you never won when I played you 8 to 6. And then you told me you were going to play me even because you didnt want me to have any cicologicale edge. And bugs asked me how me and you played and I said even and he didnt belive it. And I told bugs go and ask Freddy. And Freddy wanted his spot back and I said no I dont want to have a cicologecale edge on you.And me and Freddy played 8 to 6 banks and we broke even. But Freddy couldnt win at that game.Just like Bugs gave me 0 to 5 playing banks and he couldnt win eitheir. And Freddy couldnt beat me playing any pool game or 3 cushion billiard game but banks. And Freddys wife Carol came down to Bensingers and begged me not to play Freddy any more because she couldnt aford to give him any more money. But I new Freddy would keep playng. Freddy is a Ego maineack. And Freddy you have to learn to wright they truth. I no you are famous and you have a following and you are in they bank pool hall os fame. But sometimes its better to be humble then to get carried away. And FReddy you havent been in dead stroke for 50 years. You have been in cagneto. And I no you have to defend your turf. But when you take a side against a friend then you call that being a trader. But I give you a breack because of bunny. And he said what else does he have. If I was a judge whos word would I take they person that was their playing. or fredy who was their for a houer and left. And you keep traping yourself Freddy because you keep changing your story. I dont change my story and I dont care who belives it or not. But it makes me feel good wrighting they truth. Just Like my case with they GOverment. All they did was lie and assume . And they had they wrong information. And I will tell them to their face they are liers. And I wish I could get another chance to fight my case . But that wont happen. And my creepy layer lied too. And when I play pool I dont go into gear tell they big money is up. Because nobody will play. Since your memory is so good Freddy Howe much did you bet on me playing Grady. And how long were you betting. Maybe you one because you said I was 3 games ahead. And maybe you left a winner. Do you remember what you did. Or do you only remember what I did. And how long did you watch us. And Freddy didnt want to write they truth about how many times I beat Bugs. Because Bugs and Taylor were his Bank pool heros and they two best bankers in life. And Freddy is a bank pool Fanatick. Its tough playing bank pool for a living. Maybe you can play some banks for some time. And you can live a lot longer. And if you play for time you mite never miss a ball. I dont need anyone standing up for me. I no who I am and what I did. I can still look at myself in they mirror. You are a nice guy Freddy. But you need to control your insanitie. And I am very sorry If I speel bad but thats why I wont bet on my spelling. And they other posts were not written by me . BUt I posted twice today. I hope you dont have no night mares. And remember I sold my soul to they Devile.

          Comment


          • #20
            Freddy you are losing it I would never stake you at pool. And I didnt bet on you playing pool.I would bet on they other player. And if you played another gameoutside of pool I would bet on you And I never lost. But I never bet on you playing pool. And when you played Grady in Milwakie 8to 5 or 8 to 6 I dont no who one. And thats when I played Mike Massey we both played one handed eight ball. And I one. And that was when I was going to play Ronnie 11 to 8 and he gets all they breacks. And we both loved they game. And Phil was my backer. And I told you what happened and you changed everything. THey truth is that Ronnie couldnt get a backer to play. And thats all it was. And I would have won. And bugs said Ronnie would have quite and through they stick in because he would not have stood up for that kind of torture. And Ronnie had no clue what he was getting into. And I would have broke him down. And I never lost playing you pool excepte in Tennessee. And you never won when I played you 8 to 6. And then you told me you were going to play me even because you didnt want me to have any cicologicale edge. And bugs asked me how me and you played and I said even and he didnt belive it. And I told bugs go and ask Freddy. And Freddy wanted his spot back and I said no I dont want to have a cicologecale edge on you.And me and Freddy played 8 to 6 banks and we broke even. But Freddy couldnt win at that game.Just like Bugs gave me 0 to 5 playing banks and he couldnt win eitheir. And Freddy couldnt beat me playing any pool game or 3 cushion billiard game but banks. And Freddys wife Carol came down to Bensingers and begged me not to play Freddy any more because she couldnt aford to give him any more money. But I new Freddy would keep playng. Freddy is a Ego maineack. And Freddy you have to learn to wright they truth. I no you are famous and you have a following and you are in they bank pool hall os fame. But sometimes its better to be humble then to get carried away. And FReddy you havent been in dead stroke for 50 years. You have been in cagneto. And I no you have to defend your turf. But when you take a side against a friend then you call that being a trader. But I give you a breack because of bunny. And he said what else does he have. If I was a judge whos word would I take they person that was their playing. or fredy who was their for a houer and left. And you keep traping yourself Freddy because you keep changing your story. I dont change my story and I dont care who belives it or not. But it makes me feel good wrighting they truth. Just Like my case with they GOverment. All they did was lie and assume . And they had they wrong information. And I will tell them to their face they are liers. And I wish I could get another chance to fight my case . But that wont happen. And my creepy layer lied too. And when I play pool I dont go into gear tell they big money is up. Because nobody will play. Since your memory is so good Freddy Howe much did you bet on me playing Grady. And how long were you betting. Maybe you one because you said I was 3 games ahead. And maybe you left a winner. Do you remember what you did. Or do you only remember what I did. And how long did you watch us. And Freddy didnt want to write they truth about how many times I beat Bugs. Because Bugs and Taylor were his Bank pool heros and they two best bankers in life. And Freddy is a bank pool Fanatick. Its tough playing bank pool for a living. Maybe you can play some banks for some time. And you can live a lot longer. And if you play for time you mite never miss a ball. I dont need anyone standing up for me. I no who I am and what I did. I can still look at myself in they mirror. You are a nice guy Freddy. But you need to control your insanitie. And I am very sorry If I speel bad but thats why I wont bet on my spelling. And they other posts were not written by me . BUt I posted twice today. I hope you dont have no night mares. And remember I sold my soul to they Devile.

            Comment


            • #21
              Freddy you are losing it I would never stake you at pool. And I didnt bet on you playing pool.I would bet on they other player. And if you played another gameoutside of pool I would bet on you And I never lost. But I never bet on you playing pool. And when you played Grady in Milwakie 8to 5 or 8 to 6 I dont no who one. And thats when I played Mike Massey we both played one handed eight ball. And I one. And that was when I was going to play Ronnie 11 to 8 and he gets all they breacks. And we both loved they game. And Phil was my backer. And I told you what happened and you changed everything. THey truth is that Ronnie couldnt get a backer to play. And thats all it was. And I would have won. And bugs said Ronnie would have quite and through they stick in because he would not have stood up for that kind of torture. And Ronnie had no clue what he was getting into. And I would have broke him down. And I never lost playing you pool excepte in Tennessee. And you never won when I played you 8 to 6. And then you told me you were going to play me even because you didnt want me to have any cicologicale edge. And bugs asked me how me and you played and I said even and he didnt belive it. And I told bugs go and ask Freddy. And Freddy wanted his spot back and I said no I dont want to have a cicologecale edge on you.And me and Freddy played 8 to 6 banks and we broke even. But Freddy couldnt win at that game.Just like Bugs gave me 9 to 5 playing banks and he couldnt win eitheir. And Freddy couldnt beat me playing any pool game or 3 cushion billiard game but banks. And Freddys wife Carol came down to Bensingers and begged me not to play Freddy any more because she couldnt aford to give him any more money. But I new Freddy would keep playng. Freddy is a Ego maineack. And Freddy you have to learn to wright they truth. I no you are famous and you have a following and you are in they bank pool hall os fame. But sometimes its better to be humble then to get carried away. And FReddy you havent been in dead stroke for 50 years. You have been in cagneto. And I no you have to defend your turf. But when you take a side against a friend then you call that being a trader. But I give you a breack because of bunny. And he said what else does he have. If I was a judge whos word would I take they person that was their playing. or fredy who was their for a houer and left. And you keep traping yourself Freddy because you keep changing your story. I dont change my story and I dont care who belives it or not. But it makes me feel good wrighting they truth. Just Like my case with they GOverment. All they did was lie and assume . And they had they wrong information. And I will tell them to their face they are liers. And I wish I could get another chance to fight my case . But that wont happen. And my creepy layer lied too. And when I play pool I dont go into gear tell they big money is up. Because nobody will play. Since your memory is so good Freddy Howe much did you bet on me playing Grady. And how long were you betting. Maybe you one because you said I was 3 games ahead. And maybe you left a winner. Do you remember what you did. Or do you only remember what I did. And how long did you watch us. And Freddy didnt want to write they truth about how many times I beat Bugs. Because Bugs and Taylor were his Bank pool heros and they two best bankers in life. And Freddy is a bank pool Fanatick. Its tough playing bank pool for a living. Maybe you can play some banks for some time. And you can live a lot longer. And if you play for time you mite never miss a ball. I dont need anyone standing up for me. I no who I am and what I did. I can still look at myself in they mirror. You are a nice guy Freddy. But you need to control your insanitie. And I am very sorry If I speel bad but thats why I wont bet on my spelling. And they other posts were not written by me . BUt I posted twice today. I hope you dont have no night mares. And remember I sold my soul to they Devile.

              Comment


              • #22
                wow this is getting rich....(i'm not picking sides, nor will I, its just interesting as I have heard about this stuff for years, i want to see it play out...)

                Comment


                • #23
                  Interesting For Sure

                  Super interesting thread for sure. Thought you guys might like to see a recent photo of the legendary TR McIntosh. If you look close you might recognize 2-3 players that have over the years been in TR's stables. Photo was taken at TR's FL ranch.
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by hemicudas; 08-15-2008, 09:04 AM.
                  JMO,ICBW.............$Bill

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I'm gonna stop now

                    Even tho I can certainly respond viciously to that vain, arrogant post by my idiot friend, I'm gonna stop it here. Those who know me, know that I have files on everybody, just like J. Edgar Hoover. But I'm gonna contain myself, as San Jose Dick suggested, and not get personal, even tho my old pal seemed to have no problem with that. I'm comfortable enough with my life just to know that even tho I am basically a broke, I am welcome to bring my broke ass to many, many, friends I have accumulated all over the country, from East to West to South. In my time I've had 3 friends who were dying, that came to live with me to do it. That's ultimate acknowledgement to me. That counts more than robbing suckers. I can look in the mirror too. Nuff said.

                    the Beard
                    New stuff on my site. 100s of pgs. of pool goodness
                    www.bankingwiththebeard.com

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      amen

                      Getting closer to the end rather than the beginning everyone knows it's people first,bread second.Your a good man Freddie,keep on keepin on,Bob

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thanks again, Freddie

                        You said pretty much what I wanted to. It's time for this to end. I've always been proud of my work and record, low paying as it has been. I cannot fight ghosts. I thought my remarks were not to find out whether Freddie got staked or who "lemoned" a sucker to take off a score but simply how I fared in and around Chicago. I never ever said I was as smart as Artie or Jack or the best player in the world.
                        I thought I was the best One Pocket player in the world during all of the eighties. I certainly didn't duck anybody and I played and won in some real cesspools of joints. The funny thing is that I didn't do any phase of One Pocket better than other champs but I thought my entire package as a OP player could and would defeat any style of game in my era.
                        As I said before, Ronnie and Bugs were my toughest opponents. At least they'd get up and play.That's all I have to say.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Hold on a minute . . .

                          Grady says it's time for this to end, and I will go along with that. The long-ago match between him and Artie Bodendorfer has been discussed and disagreed upon long enough, and we should move along.

                          However, we are left with a genuine mystery man - a sort of Howard Hughes. Many of us (me, for example) had seldom heard of Artie B at all, and then only in passing. My impression was that he was a very fine player, highly regarded by Chicago players, but pretty much unknown outside of that town. We are told that he seldom left the friendly confines, that he loved to play the top players, and that he quit the game to move to Vegas, where there was more money.

                          Finally, the man speaks up in this thread (this was the right guy, wasn't it?) to sound off about several things and to say he was never a player at all, but rather a hustler. He avoided the name players so as to continue unnoticed, and went on the road and got all the suckers' money by making good games for himself. He implies that he was also a backer of similar games and always picked winners.
                          He says he controlled the 'action' and had the police and the FBI after him. He sounded a bit like the legendary 'Fats' with all his outrageous claims.

                          Now, I don't want to read the guy's diary and I don't care if he wears boxers or briefs, but where does Artie B fit in the annals of pool? Before we put him back into the mothballs, I'd like to hear a few more opinions. Who else will speak up to add to what we have learned this week?
                          If it ain't funny, it ain't much.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by vapros
                            Grady says it's time for this to end, and I will go along with that. The long-ago match between him and Artie Bodendorfer has been discussed and disagreed upon long enough, and we should move along.

                            However, we are left with a genuine mystery man - a sort of Howard Hughes. Many of us (me, for example) had seldom heard of Artie B at all, and then only in passing. My impression was that he was a very fine player, highly regarded by Chicago players, but pretty much unknown outside of that town. We are told that he seldom left the friendly confines, that he loved to play the top players, and that he quit the game to move to Vegas, where there was more money.

                            Finally, the man speaks up in this thread (this was the right guy, wasn't it?) to sound off about several things and to say he was never a player at all, but rather a hustler. He avoided the name players so as to continue unnoticed, and went on the road and got all the suckers' money by making good games for himself. He implies that he was also a backer of similar games and always picked winners.
                            He says he controlled the 'action' and had the police and the FBI after him. He sounded a bit like the legendary 'Fats' with all his outrageous claims.

                            Now, I don't want to read the guy's diary and I don't care if he wears boxers or briefs, but where does Artie B fit in the annals of pool? Before we put him back into the mothballs, I'd like to hear a few more opinions. Who else will speak up to add to what we have learned this week?
                            Vapros,

                            His claims of having the Feds after him is well known and documented along with his claim of making millions in Vegas. He is much better known than you would think and was among the best one pocket players ever, at least in Chicago circles and that pretty much made up a lot that world in those days. All three Grady, Freddie and Artie are among the elite of pool, with Freddie in Banks, Grady, of course, one of the finest one pocket minds of all time and Artie reputed to be the hardest game anyone would ever want to have. I've seen Grady more than any, over many years, and not many wanted much of him in the 1980's. I don't know as much about Artie but stories about him have been around for 40+ years. It is a shame there is hostility now but it is nice to at least hear from Artie, who, honestly, I didn't even know was still around until Derby City.

                            Hell, I can't remember my wife's birthday. It is not strage that they might have a little different take on thngs fomr all those years ago.

                            To your question, he was considered impossible to beat even up in Chicago for a long time. If anyone, back then, could manage him it would have bene Grady or R/A. IMHO
                            DeeMan

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by hemicudas
                              Super interesting thread for sure. Thought you guys might like to see a recent photo of the legendary TR McIntosh. If you look close you might recognize 2-3 players that have over the years been in TR's stables. Photo was taken at TR's FL ranch.
                              Hemi, you teaser, you. I'll bite. Who are the other guys in the picture? Buddy of course, but I'm having trouble recognizing some of the others.

                              Thanks~ Doc

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by vapros
                                Grady says it's time for this to end, and I will go along with that. The long-ago match between him and Artie Bodendorfer has been discussed and disagreed upon long enough, and we should move along.

                                However, we are left with a genuine mystery man - a sort of Howard Hughes. Many of us (me, for example) had seldom heard of Artie B at all, and then only in passing. My impression was that he was a very fine player, highly regarded by Chicago players, but pretty much unknown outside of that town. We are told that he seldom left the friendly confines, that he loved to play the top players, and that he quit the game to move to Vegas, where there was more money.

                                Finally, the man speaks up in this thread (this was the right guy, wasn't it?) to sound off about several things and to say he was never a player at all, but rather a hustler. He avoided the name players so as to continue unnoticed, and went on the road and got all the suckers' money by making good games for himself. He implies that he was also a backer of similar games and always picked winners.
                                He says he controlled the 'action' and had the police and the FBI after him. He sounded a bit like the legendary 'Fats' with all his outrageous claims.

                                Now, I don't want to read the guy's diary and I don't care if he wears boxers or briefs, but where does Artie B fit in the annals of pool? Before we put him back into the mothballs, I'd like to hear a few more opinions. Who else will speak up to add to what we have learned this week?
                                Vapros , I think that I know Artie just as good as anyone on earth and who he beat and how he beat them because I was there most of the time . Artie loved to beat suckers because he liked to keep a low profile in his early years ! The suckers came to him mostly , but he did go to other Chicago rooms to hustle . Freddy can verify that Artie also loved playing good players also even though it was tougher action . When he wasn't at the top of his game he played Jersey Red and gave Red the break and he got 10-8 and in the end Artie won , in actuality he might have been spotting Red . Freddy and I were at the Palmer House where the straight pool tournament was held and we asked Red to come and play Artie and Red said he wants a spot and Freddy said no red he'll play even . Red never showed !!! He made Boston Shorty look like he never played pool in another match that the newspapers were following . The list of top players is too long to write ! When mine and freddy's North shore biliards was going strong , many top players just sat on the bench and avoided Artie . Allen Hopkins at the top of his game refused to play . Nick Varner a real courageous player got a big time lesson as did Clyde Childress and there was always the great Bugs who lost numerous times giving Artie 9-8 thru the years . I think Bugs gave him 9-8 out of pride cause he never tried to adjust and lost and lost . They were both the greatest players ever in Chicago and the west coast and everywhere else will say Ronnie Allen another champion , but let me tell you Ronnie visited Chicago a couple times that I know of and he didn't come looking for either and I'm not saying the outcome , but Iam saying that I wonder Why ? In parting Bugs told me personally that he couldn't beat Artie because he just never gives anything up . I will sum this up by saying Freddy and Artie have been lifelong friends of mine and I hope this arguement ends , and am I Chicago biased !! Yes but I also tell the truth about what I have seen in the last fourty years . I hope that this topic is over and everybody understands that its only a game and some of us are getting older and still like talking about the great players . Life is too short !!





                                Phil

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