More Chicago stuff

[jay helfert]

Looks like I got here just in time. I vaguely remember some sucker coming into Tropicana and betting high, getting big weight and winning. That could have been Artie, I really don't know. All I remember is that everyone thought the guy was a rich sucker. But he won all the cash. If that was Artie I give him credit for fooling everyone.

I never really got to see Artie play. When I was around Chicago a time or two, we stayed around the Billiard Cafe and one other spot upstairs. I played a little with George Michaels and Joey Gold and big Wayne, Freddie's backer. Freddie was busy playing Banks with Danny Medina for 500 a pop. So he wasn't a cheap date either.

As far as who was the best player, that remains to be seen. I think Ronnie was smart enough to know where "not" to play. I have a feeling if Artie would have been willing to play Ronnie on a neutral court, he would have got all the action he wanted. Of course, like Artie says, he wanted an edge. And playing Ronnie elsewhere wasn't it.

I did see Ronnie play a lot of One Pocket in the 60's, 70's and 80's, and I didn't see anyone who I thought was a better player. And I mean ANYONE! Artie can talk all he wants about his "squeezing" techniques and endurance, but Ronnie had some big weapons himself. NO ONE I ever saw could escape traps like Ronnie. He could turn the game completely around in one shot, which might have become discouraging for Artie. And Ronnie ran "eight and out" better than any living human too.

And he often did it from nowhere, when there wasn't even a shot in sight. He would start his run by kicking a ball in from off the end rail, and that was it. He was off and running, making two and three ball combos, kick shots out of the pack, banks off other balls and razor thin cuts. I saw it with my own eyes, watching Ronnie run "ten and out" (his usual spot was maybe 10-6) so many times his opponents got nose bleeds. I don't think Artie looked too hard for him either. For good reason. Artie wasn't a sucker, so why would he want to mess with the best One Pocket player in the world.

[fred bentivegna]

ten and out

Looks like I got here just in time. I vaguely remember some sucker coming into Tropicana and betting high, getting big weight and winning. That could have been Artie, I really don't know. All I remember is that everyone thought the guy was a rich sucker. But he won all the cash. If that was Artie I give him credit for fooling everyone.

I never really got to see Artie play. When I was around Chicago a time or two, we stayed around the Billiard Cafe and one other spot upstairs. I played a little with George Michaels and Joey Gold and big Wayne, Freddie's backer. Freddie was busy playing Banks with Danny Medina for 500 a pop. So he wasn't a cheap date either.

As far as who was the best player, that remains to be seen. I think Ronnie was smart enough to know where "not" to play. I have a feeling if Artie would have been willing to play Ronnie on a neutral court, he would have got all the action he wanted. Of course, like Artie says, he wanted an edge. And playing Ronnie elsewhere wasn't it.

I did see Ronnie play a lot of One Pocket in the 60's, 70's and 80's, and I didn't see anyone who I thought was a better player. And I mean ANYONE! Artie can talk all he wants about his "squeezing" techniques and endurance, but Ronnie had some big weapons himself. NO ONE I ever saw could escape traps like Ronnie. He could turn the game completely around in one shot, which might have become discouraging for Artie. And Ronnie ran "eight and out" better than any living human too.

And he often did it from nowhere, when there wasn't even a shot in sight. He would start his run by kicking a ball in from off the end rail, and that was it. He was off and running, making two and three ball combos, kick shots out of the pack, banks off other balls and razor thin cuts. I saw it with my own eyes, watching Ronnie run "ten and out" (his usual spot was maybe 10-6) so many times his opponents got nose bleeds. I don't think Artie looked too hard for him either. For good reason. Artie wasn't a sucker, so why would he want to mess with the best One Pocket player in the world.

A little sidenote: Years back I played Ronnie in Hot Springs ARK. I was playing pretty good and he was giving me 10 to 8. I had beat him in Chicago at the Billiard Cafe with the same game. This time however, the mixture was just right. He ran 10 and out 6 games in a row! One game he had taken a scratch so he had to run eleven. I didnt wait to see what would happen in the seventh game, I packed it in.

the Beard

Jay, if the guy you are talking about was with a fat guy, then that was Artie. I know he mentioned playing at the Tropicana.

[SJDinPHX]

A little sidenote: Years back I played Ronnie in Hot Springs ARK. I was playing pretty good and he was giving me 10 to 8. I had beat him in Chicago at the Billiard Cafe with the same game. This time however, the mixture was just right. He ran 10 and out 6 games in a row! One game he had taken a scratch so he had to run eleven. I didnt wait to see what would happen in the seventh game, I packed it in.

the Beard

Jay, if the guy you are talking about was with a fat guy, then that was Artie. I know he mentioned playing at the Tropicana.

Fred, you have finally given me a line on your game. (or what used to be your game) After I finally learned to play one pocket, Ronnie and I tangled at least fifty times, from the 60's to the late 90's. I rarely won getting 9/8, but he NEVER won giving me 8/7. In fact by the late 90's we were playing even, and breaking even. ( he was not aging too well) Thank God I took the 20 year hiatus ('72-'92) or else I probably would have been toast. Also remember, as Grady once said, when you play RA you are allready giving up a ball to the shark. Getting his cash required FULL TIME focus, earplugs, and blinders. He's still around, ask him about some of our wars. He was Hitler, I was Churchill, but we had fun. The last time we played, (I was 70 he was 65) he gave me 9/8 and shot me down. Thats when I hung it up for good. Ask him about the time we went to blows.
Two, out of shape pool player's, rolling around in the mud, the blood, and the beer. Then we went next door and had a drink.

Dick

[Artie Bodendorfer]

When I played at Tropicana I spred with fat jerry sterling who was butter milk and this guy they barber who was one of they best suckers in tropicana. And I cleaned out they hole joint. And nobody new me and I never drew my cue ball. And Richie Florence was out of town in Las Vegas. And Richie had a lot of money and gamble and I would have beat him for a good score. Richie was a real gambler. And they were going to get me stuck up. And sterling was going to get some of his friends to stick up they stick up men. But I told him to forget about it.And I left town with fat Jerry. To SFsisco.And I won good money in SFsisco at they Palace. And I had to a chance to make one of they biggest scores ever in a pool room. They owner wanted to bet me one hundred thousand dollares a game on kazura playing my player Straight rail that I was Backing. And I had they best straight rail player in they world and thats all he could play and nobody new him. And he couldnt speak English. I made a good score but I didnt make they giant score that I should have. And it should have been one of they biggest scores in life. And we had they nuts. And they owner from they Palace new that nobody in America had a chance playing her straight rail. She would have robed any American 200 hundred to 50. And I seen my player play at fourth and Main in LA and he would play people 300 no count straight rail to their 8 three cushion billiards. And he never missed. And I ran into him by axcedent in SF and he couldnt speeck English. And I played Kashiekie three cushion billiards and he spoted me 10 billiards and they breack and he was they second best three cushion billiard player in they world. But I beat him pretty good. And I even played him we both shoot one handed three cushion billiards and he spoted me 5 points to 25 but he couldnt have one even . But I always hustled they people with money. And I was they best manager and sucker handler in life. With my carnivale education. If I would have waited and set they score up wright I would have one a fourtune. But I was scared that sombody would knock it. And AS far as Ronnie Allen goes I never played Ronnie. And they only time we were going to play was in millwakie. And Ronnie couldnt get a backer. We both loved they game. He was going to give me 11 to 8 and he gets all they breacks. And he would not have won. Nobody plays they style I play. And they best one pocket players in my time were Edie Taylor Bugs Ronnie Allen Jersey Red Corn bread Red Marven Henderson.And any of these players could have beat each other 3 out of 5. But none of these players could have beat me 6 games ahead. And Bugs And Ronnie played 3 times and Bugs won twice. And Taylor and Bugs played Banks twice and Bugs won once and Taylor won once . They played in Baltimore and in Philadelpia. And Bugs said I was they only guy he couldnt beat. And he said nobody could have beat me 6 games ahead. But 3 out of 5 he could have one. And I no how to squez playing one pocket. But that was not my game. I played chess one pocket. And nobody semes to be interested in that kind of game. But its ok with me. And I played one pocket chess with no mistakes. And I didnt play power one pocket with power moves and shooting or agressive one pocket or by instict thats what most player do. I played no mistake one pocket.And once I have my oponet in check mate I keep him in they trap. And never leaving my oponent out of they trap or a shot. And always keeping my oponent on defense were he couldnt shot at his pocket. Unless he wanted to shoot at a 4 to 1 shot and if he misses give up they game. And take way they worst of they shot. They best one pocket players in my time were Taylor Bugs and Ronnie. And today I would pick Efraen Scott Frost Cliff Parica and Gab Those are my picks. And every body knows Ronnie because of all they tournaments he played in. And if it wasant for they tournaments nobody would no who is who. And I am ARTHUR BODENDORFER. AND I APROVE THIS MESSAGE.And they best thing you can do if you realy want to become a champion player learn to play they game correctly and no what you are doing.

[SJDinPHX]

Hey Eric !

Fatboy, I think I've found sombody you can give 8 to 5 and the breaks,.....IN SPELLING ! (see last post,)



Dick

PS I'lll steake you, Pleese, dnot dog it !

[NH Steve]

Fatboy, I think I've found sombody you can give 8 to 5 and the breaks,.....IN SPELLING !


Dick

PS I'lll steak you, Pleese, dnot dog it !

Might be true, but it's interesting that both Fatboy and Artie have done exceptionally well in the pursuit of their goals -- including notable financial success. We all have our strengths, and weaknesses, don't get too carried away, guys...

Meanwhile, there is some awfully good advice here that should not be overlooked, which I edited slightly for reading ease:

I played chess one pocket. And nobody seems to be interested in that kind of game. But its ok with me. I played one pocket chess with no mistakes. I didn't play power one pocket with power moves and shooting, and I didn't play agressive one pocket or play by instinct. That's what most players do. I played no mistake one pocket, and once I had my opponent in checkmate, I kept him in the trap. I never let my opponent out of the trap for a shot, always keeping my opponent on defense where he couldn't shoot at his pocket. Unless he wanted to shoot at a 4 to 1 shot, where if he misses he gives up the game.

In otherwords, Artie played in the 'Clem' Metz style of One Pocket. It's good advice!

[Fast Lenny]

Hey Artie.Who do you think is the better player,Scott Frost or Cliff Joyner?

[SJDinPHX]

Might be true, but it's interesting that both Fatboy and Artie have done exceptionally well in the pursuit of their goals -- including notable financial success. We all have our strengths, and weaknesses, don't get too carried away, guys...

Meanwhile, there is some awfully good advice here that should not be overlooked, which I edited slightly for reading ease:



In otherwords, Artie played in the 'Clem' Metz style of One Pocket. It's good advice!

Steve, Do you actually think I'm not aware of their financial successes. I know for a fact Eric will get a kick out it ! I'm sorry you felt the need to chastise me, for trying to have a little fun. There's not a lot going around these days, you know. As for Arty's skill's,
laying traps may be more productive financially, but my heroes are still the gunslinger's who hit the highway, and would bet it up ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. And yes, from what I've heard, there were a LOT of similarities between Clem and Arty. JMHO.

Dick

[NH Steve]

Steve, Do you actually think I'm not aware of their financial successes. I know for a fact Eric will get a kick out it ! I'm sorry you felt the need to chastise me, for trying to have a little fun. There's not a lot going around these days. As for Arty's skill's,
laying traps may be more productive financially, but my heroes are still the gunslinger's who hit the highway, and would bet it up ANYWHERE, ANYTIME.

Dick

It's good for everybody to remember that this is a pool forum, not a spelling forum, that's all. There are way too few of us as it is, we don't want anybody (that means anybody, certainly not just Artie) to feel like they better not post, because their spelling and grammar skills are not the equal to their pool skills. Guys like you (and Freddy) are the exceptions in terms of pool skills combined with writing skills. Oh, yeah, I have writing skills, but my pool skills are suspect

[SJDinPHX]

It's good for everybody to remember that this is a pool forum, not a spelling forum, that's all. There are way too few of us as it is, we don't want anybody (that means anybody, certainly not just Artie) to feel like they better not post, because their spelling and grammar skills are not the equal to their pool skills. Guys like you (and Freddy) are the exceptions in terms of pool skills combined with writing skills. Oh, yeah, I have writing skills, but my pool skills are suspect

POIRNT WEL TAKKEN. (I also posted it on AZB, in hopes of getting a few more warm bodie's over here.)

Dicke

[NH Steve]

POIRNT WEL TAKKEN. (I also posted it on AZB, in hopes of getting a few more warm bodie's over here.)

Dicke

Thank you for you're understanding...

[gulfportdoc]

Guys like you (and Freddy) are the exceptions in terms of pool skills combined with writing skills.

Well, I think this means that --since I've been known to turn a phrase or two, and that my spelling is decent-- the administration understands that I'm a mediocre pool player. Booth, I'll be expecting the appropriate weight from you at the DCC!!

Doc

[fred bentivegna]

Nobody's insulted him more than me

Steve, Do you actually think I'm not aware of their financial successes. I know for a fact Eric will get a kick out it ! I'm sorry you felt the need to chastise me, for trying to have a little fun. There's not a lot going around these days, you know. As for Arty's skill's,
laying traps may be more productive financially, but my heroes are still the gunslinger's who hit the highway, and would bet it up ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. And yes, from what I've heard, there were a LOT of similarities between Clem and Arty. JMHO.

Dick

Forget about it Dick. Nobody has insulted Artie's lack of formal education more than me. He would call me a sucker and I would call him an idiot. When we were still pals, and before I became a "trader" to him for agreeing somewhat, with Gradys story, he leaked some of his onepocket secrets to me at his house in Vegas. He actually is the smartest 1pkt player in the world, and I aint no dope playing that game. Suffice to say, I aint telling anybody else. However, I am the smartest bank pool player in the world, and even Artie will agree to that.
Now, just to start some sh*t up again. Artie, I have talked to three more guys who were at North Shore when you played Grady. Sam Gibson, Grady Humphries, and Black Sylvester the Sweator. They dont remember much else, except that the match took at least two days -- not 5 hours. You probably wore out too much of your brain and your memory thinking about 1pkt.

the Beard

[Artie Bodendorfer]

I did not play Clems style of one pocket.You people still dont understand real one pocket.And what you can do with they game. Nodody knows how to play real one pocket.And Scott Frost and Cliff Jointer are they greatest one pocket players and they have great personalities.And Efren is also great but he does not have they personality of Scott Frost and Cliff Jointer. And they all play they same style. Offense and running 8 and out. They are all very agresive players. Efrin is they best shooter and Cliff is they best banker. And If they played I dont no who would win. You would have to ask they players. Because they players no more than they fans and they public.I belive Frost will still be great when cliff and Efrin will be on their way out. And Cliff and Efrin have reached their potential.And they top of their shooting skill. And they can only improve more through knowledge. And they should have a round robin between Cliff Scott and Efren and people would love it before its to late and Efrin and Cliff quite playing. And have ESPN show it and make sure they pay they players a good peace of money. Because they desirve it. And they chinnese will pay good money for they CDS and DVD because they are champions at coping and perfection. And they world will have a great event and momonet. And when I hustled pool I was not a gunslinger. I was a bounty hunter.And pool hustling is about they money. Not about being a gunslinger like billy they kid. cLEM PLAYED GREAT ONE POCKET. BUT I do not play his style he played a defenseve and a safe style.Thats why when Graddy and Freddy said that I was 3 games ahead and in they 4 game I had grady 5 balls to nothing and Grady owed 3 balls. And he won they freez out 4 games ahead. Was all nonsense and never hapened. And if that hapened Grady would have never came back and won. Because I would have went into gear and he would have been all done. He could not have over come what he would have seen. And that is all a made up story. And we did play and my story does not change only they other sides story changes. And Grady would have been on defense tell they session would have been over. And he would have made way more mistakes then me. And I would have controled they game. Because he wouldnt have even known what I was doing. And I can prove it. And nobody would have knowen why I would have had grady locked up. And Grady was a great player.But to be honest about it Grady does not no what I am talking about. And Grady did everything good in pool. And if you want to get 3 or 5 judges we can have a contestand put up 10 thousand dollares and we have a half an houer to explain they session and let they judges decide who they belive.Thats a interesting gamble. And we can do it in Indiana at they Derby tournament. And Grady and Freddy can take half they bet. And I dont need no co signers to agree with me what hapened I was their and I played and I bet my own money. And on top of that Freddy was their only for a short time.How would he no what hapened. Unless he is like they FBI with his files and assuming or her say information. And FReddy was on another planet at that time. Clem played old style one pocket. And I played they correct style of one pocket. And someone can take that bet too. With 3 or 5 judges. And some of they judges I would pick would be Nick Varner Buddy Hall Allison fisher. Johnny Archer Efrin Rayes Pittsburg Billy Jimmy Fosco and half of these people I dont even no. If I wore out to much of my brain it must have been because you werent their long enough to watch one game. And you must have brain damage from all those wasted days and nights. Do you even remember being at they club. Because I would love to bet you that you didnt even no what day it was. I no who you are J edger Hover JR. And as far as my poor spelling goes you will have to use your imagination to understand it. Since I got my Harvard education in they canivale and they pool room. And I graduated not from Penn State. but they state Pen. And I dont want to be remembered as a perfect speller because thats not who I was. And when we had a spelling contest in school. I was always they first one to sit down.Because I never spelled a word correctly. But in math I always one every contest. That showes in life we can do whatever we want to do and be whatever we want to be. And Freddy you tried it all in life. You didnt get short changed. And their isnt much left for you to try. You have lived your life out. You can spot Det Whity they one and they nine in all they thinges you have tried and done. Their mite be a reward out for you and you could be on they wanted list not for a crime but for all they things you have tried and done. You could teach people on a lot of subjects outside of pool. If you are a champion and a winner in one game and a loser in another game what does that make you. A winner or a loser. If someone wants to learn how to play perfect one pocket I will teach you for 30 thousad dollares. It will take a month 7 days a week 10 houers or more a day.And you will no they correct way to play. And all your quistions wiil be aswered and explained. I dont think nobody will go for it. But if you are one person that is courious enough to no they correct and perfect way to play. you will no be disapointed. I have been as honest as i can be. And I learned a long time ago people will see and belive they truth. I do not make up stories like Freddy and Grady I tell it like it is wheter they like it or not. And Ronnie and Grady would have had no chance to out manage me because that was my best game. And I would have managed them. And my back ground and carnivale education teaches you how to manage everybody. I am sorry my spelling isnt getting any better but I will have to take resposability and live with it. One of they best places to hustle pool was they Kentucky Derby. Their were hundreds of suckers. And Harold and me made nothing but money in they bares. We beat everybody. And Harold was one of they greatest hustlers in life.And he could do everythig but play pool. And pool was his true love. And I will always remember harold and teebone. Have a great day.

[SJDinPHX]

Puhleeeze !!!

Administrator,

Can you please just get Arty to leave the "y" off the word "the". It would make it so much easier to read his garbled bulls**t.

Thank you,

Dick

PS Theres nothing wrong with him quitting pool to pursue other more profitable ventures. But I'm getting a little sick of his talking down to everyone who never played him.(which was just about everybody)