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  • #31
    I have to pick the man who makes the fewest mistakes. Even the best shooter misses, careful players have more control over their "mistakes."
    DeeMan

    Comment


    • #32
      best ever! opinion only!

      I understand a little bit about 8 and out not happening that often, especially against a mover opponent and....... playing on tight pockets, which seems to be left out of the equation lately. The pockets today are merciless as compared to the old 5" pockets of old. I never meant to imply that Efren runs 8 and out every third or fourth time he's at the table. I only compared a few players like Kelly, Rags,Squirrel and Ronnie because of what I've heard about their abilities in 9 ball and other games, as well as one pocket. I know there are many other players that I left out like Hopkins, Varner etc. I was only trying to make a point Artie. And remember it's only an opinion from someone who admits he has a lot to learn from this complex game.

      As far as Efren betting his own money I think he does most of the time or at least he has someone managing it with him. I'm not sure though. When he first came to America I understand he was being backed most of the time.

      Anyway, considering Efren, that is one of my reasons that I pick him. Like I said in my post, I don't think the money bothers Efren like it does most players because he can take it or leave it. All he wants is enough to get a bowl of rice and some good fish (I may be exaggerating a little, I'm trying to make a point) and have some money left to help someone less fortunate at the hotel or from his country. That quality alone puts undo pressure on his opponents, especially people who know him best like, Bustamonte, Pagulyan, Luat, Parica, etc. I think that's why Bustamante often loses to Efren. I'm sure you know a psychological edge is a terrible thing. It opens up the "fear factor" to new levels. From what I gather from observation and hearsay Ronnie Allen was a master of it, only in a different manner. From what I've heard Ronnie talked a good game and was successful at sharking a lot of people. I've personally seen Ronnie do things at the table that I didn't approve of but then again, I've also heard stories how he would spend half of his winnings on his friends and was very generous and also had a big heart. He also loved to spend money on high living. But that's all part of the American culture. I've never heard of Efren ever trying to shark anyone and I've never heard anyone else say it either. He doesn't have to. His has too much confidence in his abilities. But then again, in the culture he comes from, for the most part, money is not their god. Not to say that it doesn't rub-off after prolonged exposure to it.

      I agree with you in the regard that Efren often shoots the wrong shot as seen on the tapes. But he usually has a plan of action well in advance of the next shot. I recall Grady and Billy often commenting about some of those peculiar shots that he executes. When you can consistently baffle Grady, Billy, Freddy, Danny and other commentators you know something different is going on in his head.

      Artie, I'm sure you have seen Efren shoot many shots that were the wrong shots and I'm sure they were often the "wrong shots" even if they were being measured by someone as defensive as your style. I guess it's similar to chess in that there is hardly ever just one move. There is often a better move but hardly ever just the one move. In chess you only have limited offense. But in one pocket, a "defensive mover" is more apt to say a shooter or a (shooter/mover) shot the wrong shot. But to me and others that is what makes Efren so unique. More often than not he gets away with it. Even against the greatest firepower of the day. Granted in the days gone by he may not have had the opportunity as often to shoot his game but he is a master at making a way for it to happen. And I'm sure he would adapt a little differently depending on the style and firepower of his opponent. I saw that myself when he got beat the first round of play with Billy Palmer in the 2004 Derby City. On the second round though, Efren tightened a few moves and took Palmer down rather easily.

      When Squirrel was in Mobile a couple of months ago we asked him about some of the older one pocket players and to compare them to Efren. He said: "Well, he's in another class by himself'". And I've heard other players from the past say the same thing. Of course, that's just another opinion in a long list of good shooters who all have opinions themselves.

      I would like to hear a lot of opinions also on the next subject. But my answer to your question on comparing best touch, best position player, best shooter or player without a mistake I would choose Efren as best touch, best position player of anyone and a very close on best shooter. Like I said mistakes are in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure Efren has made many mistakes. I never said he was perfect. But who can measure every shot. That is what makes one pocket such a great game. There is never only one shot. There may be a better shot that we can see at the moment, especially if someone is sitting in front of a screen looking from all different directions, like straight down on the table from 15 feet high and while rested and sipping a beer in a lounge chair with a remote to rewind and study the situation. I don't know if you've ever played on TV Artie (not taking anything from your game) but it must be a lot different with the TV lights and all of the other distractions not present in a one on one session with a few dozen ardent supporters in the background of your hometown pool room.

      Anyway I'm tired of debating this subject. After all it's only an opinion anyway. And I enjoy seeing a lot of other good one pocket players whether they be the best or 100th best. I would rather just concentrate on my game and try to keep my mind and eyes open to continue to listen, observe and learn more about this great game and how it can be played better and in the correct fashion. And, how we can get the Chinese, the German's, the Japanese etc. to take a bigger interest in the game and start to raise the prize money up to a level that people can make a decent living without having to shark and scuff and argue every inch of the way.

      Plus I've got to get my Fall garden started so I can raise some kale and chard and other greens to build my stamina for future matches. And, I need to get to work helping to rid our country of George Bush and company before they swindle us out of everything, with their unjust wars, unscrupulous bailouts and unchecked military defense programs that are siphoning away social security and the infrastructure of our country and everything else that made America the nation it once was.

      Wishing all you a great day

      george
      George

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Deeman
        I have to pick the man who makes the fewest mistakes. Even the best shooter misses, careful players have more control over their "mistakes."
        You are correct and that goes for every sport the person or team that makes the most mistakes will lose. And when we talk about great players their is not to much difference in ability. Even in sports thats why on any given day the team with the worst record can beat the team with the best record. But if you would let me bet on the team or player with the least mistakes you will win the money. The only excepion would be if the player or team are 40 % better then the other player or team then they could over come the mistakes. But every situation is different. I would like to take one mistake and eliminate what hapenes off of that mistake and bet on the other person or team Just one mistake one. And Now I will point out why it will not show up because the person he is playing will make just as many or more mistakes then Efrin so if the player playing Efrin makes as many mistakes as efrin makes. THen Efrin will destoy him because he will get more out of the mistake then you will because of his ability and position and caroms. So you see the people playing him are not even out moving him and their mistakes WILL COST THEM MORE THEN WHEN EFRIN MAKES A MISTAKE. AND thats why I said you have to play the whole game mistake free. And Efrin can not spot any good player one mistake a game especialy a major mistake. But I am wrighting this to show people that what I wrote in the beginning is the truth not just a story or BS. And You can prove it to youreself. Just watch all the cds or DVD and take away the mistakes and the other person will win the game. You can see it in a lot of taps. And I am not saying that one mistake will cost you the game. But I am saying it could cost you the game. Especialy if its near the end of the game. But if two great players play I will bet on the player who makes the least amount of mistakes. So you see if Efrin playes he might be the player who makes the least amount of mistakes. And the mistake you make will be worse for you then when Efrin makes the same mistake because he can do more at the table running out. THat is why I keep saying if you play the game mistake free and Efrin makes two mistakes. I will lay 3 to 2 that Efrin will lose that game. And in Boxing it only takes one mistake to loose the fight. What I am telling you is correct and you can belive me or not. And if you are playing some one that playes your speed of one pocket keep playing him and dont make as many mistakes as he makes and you will beat him easy. You can prove it to yourself you dont have to take my word for it. And I am not benafitting anything by telling you. I am not selling a DVD or a Cd or a book I am telling you this to help you and make you aware of what you need to do to improve your game. And you will have the biggest high of your life once you get their and understand it. And as far as the election goes I am for neither party. I am nutral and for the people and the people should have the power not the GOVERMENT. And both candadats make all these promises and what the will do and the debate against each other the waste a Zillion dollares campaining and debating.. ANd as soon as the get into office its all over THE DO WHAT THE WANT. And forget all the promises and things the said the would do. Its like me HUstling a sucker and telling them what the want to her and ten I take his money. And I have seen all their promisess and lies with other presidents. And the Republicans would do and say whatever the can to get them in office and the Democrates would do the same. I am not telling you to vote or not vote what I am telling you is look what hapens to all the things the said in their campain when the get into office. And the will do what the want. And BUsch did what he wanted and nobody stoped him and all I herd was we need a new President. Will my good people of America you Voted Busch in and you got what you voted for and I can tell you this through experience people pick more loosers than winners. But Who ever wins I will live with it and I will see what happened to all the promisess the made to become president. And the will do what the want. NOt what the people want or what the promised. Its like backing a pool player he can do what he wants with the backers money. THink about it. But no matter what anyone tells you playing one pocket mistake free is the way to go. Because we dont all shoot and bank like Harold Worst And Efrin Or Bugs or EDdie taylor so we have to adjust to OUR ABILITY. THis is very important to ajust to youre ability. And not try to do what the best players try because you have to play and shoot shoots according to yopur ability tell you learn and improve your skills. I hope you understand what I am saying. And good luck with your game and keep thinking and learning and you need to learn to have strong concentration. Take the game serious not like a joke. And remember while you are playing count your mistakes and that you should be able to iomprove on even if you have reached your shooting potential. And if you are serious about becomeing a champion then learn the correct tools and put in more houers and take it more serious and practice what will improve your game and mind. And dont just get some balls and bang them around the table because you like their colores and the way the sound. THis is not a terapy session. Its up to you what you want to be. And I am talking through my experience and I am not selling you a story. But what you have to do to become a great player. If you want it bad enough then give it 100% and go for it. YOU CAN DO IT.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by gbru
          I understand a little bit about 8 and out not happening that often, especially against a mover opponent and....... playing on tight pockets, which seems to be left out of the equation lately. The pockets today are merciless as compared to the old 5" pockets of old. I never meant to imply that Efren runs 8 and out every third or fourth time he's at the table. I only compared a few players like Kelly, Rags,Squirrel and Ronnie because of what I've heard about their abilities in 9 ball and other games, as well as one pocket. I know there are many other players that I left out like Hopkins, Varner etc. I was only trying to make a point Artie. And remember it's only an opinion from someone who admits he has a lot to learn from this complex game.

          As far as Efren betting his own money I think he does most of the time or at least he has someone managing it with him. I'm not sure though. When he first came to America I understand he was being backed most of the time.

          Anyway, considering Efren, that is one of my reasons that I pick him. Like I said in my post, I don't think the money bothers Efren like it does most players because he can take it or leave it. All he wants is enough to get a bowl of rice and some good fish (I may be exaggerating a little, I'm trying to make a point) and have some money left to help someone less fortunate at the hotel or from his country. That quality alone puts undo pressure on his opponents, especially people who know him best like, Bustamonte, Pagulyan, Luat, Parica, etc. I think that's why Bustamante often loses to Efren. I'm sure you know a psychological edge is a terrible thing. It opens up the "fear factor" to new levels. From what I gather from observation and hearsay Ronnie Allen was a master of it, only in a different manner. From what I've heard Ronnie talked a good game and was successful at sharking a lot of people. I've personally seen Ronnie do things at the table that I didn't approve of but then again, I've also heard stories how he would spend half of his winnings on his friends and was very generous and also had a big heart. He also loved to spend money on high living. But that's all part of the American culture. I've never heard of Efren ever trying to shark anyone and I've never heard anyone else say it either. He doesn't have to. His has too much confidence in his abilities. But then again, in the culture he comes from, for the most part, money is not their god. Not to say that it doesn't rub-off after prolonged exposure to it.

          I agree with you in the regard that Efren often shoots the wrong shot as seen on the tapes. But he usually has a plan of action well in advance of the next shot. I recall Grady and Billy often commenting about some of those peculiar shots that he executes. When you can consistently baffle Grady, Billy, Freddy, Danny and other commentators you know something different is going on in his head.

          Artie, I'm sure you have seen Efren shoot many shots that were the wrong shots and I'm sure they were often the "wrong shots" even if they were being measured by someone as defensive as your style. I guess it's similar to chess in that there is hardly ever just one move. There is often a better move but hardly ever just the one move. In chess you only have limited offense. But in one pocket, a "defensive mover" is more apt to say a shooter or a (shooter/mover) shot the wrong shot. But to me and others that is what makes Efren so unique. More often than not he gets away with it. Even against the greatest firepower of the day. Granted in the days gone by he may not have had the opportunity as often to shoot his game but he is a master at making a way for it to happen. And I'm sure he would adapt a little differently depending on the style and firepower of his opponent. I saw that myself when he got beat the first round of play with Billy Palmer in the 2004 Derby City. On the second round though, Efren tightened a few moves and took Palmer down rather easily.

          When Squirrel was in Mobile a couple of months ago we asked him about some of the older one pocket players and to compare them to Efren. He said: "Well, he's in another class by himself'". And I've heard other players from the past say the same thing. Of course, that's just another opinion in a long list of good shooters who all have opinions themselves.

          I would like to hear a lot of opinions also on the next subject. But my answer to your question on comparing best touch, best position player, best shooter or player without a mistake I would choose Efren as best touch, best position player of anyone and a very close on best shooter. Like I said mistakes are in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure Efren has made many mistakes. I never said he was perfect. But who can measure every shot. That is what makes one pocket such a great game. There is never only one shot. There may be a better shot that we can see at the moment, especially if someone is sitting in front of a screen looking from all different directions, like straight down on the table from 15 feet high and while rested and sipping a beer in a lounge chair with a remote to rewind and study the situation. I don't know if you've ever played on TV Artie (not taking anything from your game) but it must be a lot different with the TV lights and all of the other distractions not present in a one on one session with a few dozen ardent supporters in the background of your hometown pool room.

          Anyway I'm tired of debating this subject. After all it's only an opinion anyway. And I enjoy seeing a lot of other good one pocket players whether they be the best or 100th best. I would rather just concentrate on my game and try to keep my mind and eyes open to continue to listen, observe and learn more about this great game and how it can be played better and in the correct fashion. And, how we can get the Chinese, the German's, the Japanese etc. to take a bigger interest in the game and start to raise the prize money up to a level that people can make a decent living without having to shark and scuff and argue every inch of the way.

          Plus I've got to get my Fall garden started so I can raise some kale and chard and other greens to build my stamina for future matches. And, I need to get to work helping to rid our country of George Bush and company before they swindle us out of everything, with their unjust wars, unscrupulous bailouts and unchecked military defense programs that are siphoning away social security and the infrastructure of our country and everything else that made America the nation it once was.

          Wishing all you a great day

          george
          George,

          You pulled a "movie star" move, (as they are prone to do when accepting an Oscar, see Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, Di Caprio etc.) You have turned a pool forum into a platform to express YOUR political views.
          As there is no NPR forum on 1P.org., I consider this a "low blow". So I will respond with MY views. I will also remind you, that you are responding to a person (Artie) who is the epitome of all the things you seem to detest.
          The liberally biased media, and all of Hollywood, cannot overcome the fact that this country is, what it is, by virtue of ALL the people who were SMART ENOUGH to make money, and provide jobs. I'm talking Andrew Carnigie, J.P.Morgan, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates,
          and thousands of others who saw through the liberal views that have created some of the WORST years this country has had to endure.
          Yes, we are up against it again. I have never been a fan of Bush/Cheney, but I KNOW we'd be really screwed if we had a Clinton or a Carter trying to deal with our current economic problems, AND the terrorist threat.
          Let's hope our next President can provide the leardership we need now, more than ever. I wish you luck with your Fall garden, but I think you need to let the "Big Boy's" deal with our financial situation. Protecting our entitlements will not get it. Do you really want a "Welfare State" ?
          I've said my piece, (more than I meant to) we can debate further if you'd like, but maybe we should do it via PM. I'm sure Steve would prefer that too.

          Dick

          PS It looks like once again, whoever is elected, they won't be the best man for the job....all those guys are too smart to want it. Lets ask Artie, I'll bet he agrees with what Fat's said re; politicians, "They're all thieves and hustlers"
          Last edited by SJDinPHX; 10-02-2008, 03:04 PM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Dick Mc Morran
            George,

            You pulled a "movie star" move, (as they are prone to do when accepting an Oscar, see Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, Di Caprio etc.) You have turned a pool forum into a platform to express YOUR political views.
            As there is no NPR forum on 1P.org., I consider this a "low blow". So I will retaliate with MY views, I will only remind you, that you are responding to a person who is the epitome of all the things you seem to detest.
            The liberally biased media, and all of Hollywood, cannot overcome the fact that this country is, what it is, by virtue of ALL the people who were smart enough to make money, and provide jobs. I'm talking Andrew Carnigie, J.P.Morgan, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates,
            and thousands of others who saw through the liberal views that have created some of the WORST years this country has had to endure.
            Yes, we are up against it again. I have never been a fan of Bush/Cheney, but I KNOW we'd be really screwed, if we had a Clinton or a Carter trying to deal with our current economic problems, AND the terrorist threat.
            Let,s hope our next President can provide the leardership we need, now more than ever. I wish you luck with your Fall garden, but I think you need to let the "Big Boy's deal with our financial situation.
            I've said my piece, (more than I meant to) we can debate further if you'd like, but maybe we should do it via PM. I'm sure Steve would prefer that too.

            Dick

            PS It looks like once again, whoever is elected, they won't be the best man for the job....all those guys are too smart to take it. Lets ask Artie
            You get what you vote for and then you might not get the person you vote for. But you are correct about one thing one of the will win even if its not your choice. And I hope it will change whats going on and make it ok again. But wright now were in a little bit of a slump.

            Comment


            • #36
              one pocket forum

              Dear Dick and others who were offended by my short reply.

              I apologize for touching a nerve. I shouldn't have done it. That's all I'll say.

              I do agree fully with your PS Dick. And it is a shame that the best suited will never run for office.

              From now on it's strictly one pocket talk for me.

              Have another nice day tomorrow and forget what I said today! Okay?

              george
              George

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Dick Mc Morran
                George,

                You pulled a "movie star" move, (as they are prone to do when accepting an Oscar, see Susan Sarandon, Tim Robbins, Di Caprio etc.) You have turned a pool forum into a platform to express YOUR political views.
                As there is no NPR forum on 1P.org., I consider this a "low blow". So I will respond with MY views. I will also remind you, that you are responding to a person (Artie) who is the epitome of all the things you seem to detest.
                The liberally biased media, and all of Hollywood, cannot overcome the fact that this country is, what it is, by virtue of ALL the people who were SMART ENOUGH to make money, and provide jobs. I'm talking Andrew Carnigie, J.P.Morgan, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates,
                and thousands of others who saw through the liberal views that have created some of the WORST years this country has had to endure.
                Yes, we are up against it again. I have never been a fan of Bush/Cheney, but I KNOW we'd be really screwed if we had a Clinton or a Carter trying to deal with our current economic problems, AND the terrorist threat.
                Let's hope our next President can provide the leardership we need now, more than ever. I wish you luck with your Fall garden, but I think you need to let the "Big Boy's" deal with our financial situation. Protecting our entitlements will not get it. Do you really want a "Welfare State" ?
                I've said my piece, (more than I meant to) we can debate further if you'd like, but maybe we should do it via PM. I'm sure Steve would prefer that too.

                Dick

                PS It looks like once again, whoever is elected, they won't be the best man for the job....all those guys are too smart to want it. Lets ask Artie, I'll bet he agrees with what Fat's said re; politicians, "They're all thieves and hustlers"
                For sure, Dick. That shit belongs on AZ, NPR.........
                JMO,ICBW.............$Bill

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by gbru
                  Dear Dick and others who were offended by my short reply.

                  I apologize for touching a nerve. I shouldn't have done it. That's all I'll say.

                  I do agree fully with your PS Dick. And it is a shame that the best suited will never run for office.

                  From now on it's strictly one pocket talk for me.

                  Have another nice day tomorrow and forget what I said today! Okay?

                  george
                  George,

                  I was not fishing for, nor do I deserve, an apology. You have shown me you are a true gentleman for offering one. Obviously politics and religion are best discussed over a beer or two. Hopefully we'll get to do that someday friend.

                  Dick

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Artie Bodendorfer
                    You are correct and that goes for every sport the person or team that makes the most mistakes will lose. And when we talk about great players their is not to much difference in ability. Even in sports thats why on any given day the team with the worst record can beat the team with the best record. But if you would let me bet on the team or player with the least mistakes you will win the money. The only excepion would be if the player or team are 40 % better then the other player or team then they could over come the mistakes. But every situation is different. I would like to take one mistake and eliminate what hapenes off of that mistake and bet on the other person or team Just one mistake one. And Now I will point out why it will not show up because the person he is playing will make just as many or more mistakes then Efrin so if the player playing Efrin makes as many mistakes as efrin makes. THen Efrin will destoy him because he will get more out of the mistake then you will because of his ability and position and caroms. So you see the people playing him are not even out moving him and their mistakes WILL COST THEM MORE THEN WHEN EFRIN MAKES A MISTAKE. AND thats why I said you have to play the whole game mistake free. And Efrin can not spot any good player one mistake a game especialy a major mistake. But I am wrighting this to show people that what I wrote in the beginning is the truth not just a story or BS. And You can prove it to youreself. Just watch all the cds or DVD and take away the mistakes and the other person will win the game. You can see it in a lot of taps. And I am not saying that one mistake will cost you the game. But I am saying it could cost you the game. Especialy if its near the end of the game. But if two great players play I will bet on the player who makes the least amount of mistakes. So you see if Efrin playes he might be the player who makes the least amount of mistakes. And the mistake you make will be worse for you then when Efrin makes the same mistake because he can do more at the table running out. THat is why I keep saying if you play the game mistake free and Efrin makes two mistakes. I will lay 3 to 2 that Efrin will lose that game. And in Boxing it only takes one mistake to loose the fight. What I am telling you is correct and you can belive me or not. And if you are playing some one that playes your speed of one pocket keep playing him and dont make as many mistakes as he makes and you will beat him easy. You can prove it to yourself you dont have to take my word for it. And I am not benafitting anything by telling you. I am not selling a DVD or a Cd or a book I am telling you this to help you and make you aware of what you need to do to improve your game. And you will have the biggest high of your life once you get their and understand it. And as far as the election goes I am for neither party. I am nutral and for the people and the people should have the power not the GOVERMENT. And both candadats make all these promises and what the will do and the debate against each other the waste a Zillion dollares campaining and debating.. ANd as soon as the get into office its all over THE DO WHAT THE WANT. And forget all the promises and things the said the would do. Its like me HUstling a sucker and telling them what the want to her and ten I take his money. And I have seen all their promisess and lies with other presidents. And the Republicans would do and say whatever the can to get them in office and the Democrates would do the same. I am not telling you to vote or not vote what I am telling you is look what hapens to all the things the said in their campain when the get into office. And the will do what the want. And BUsch did what he wanted and nobody stoped him and all I herd was we need a new President. Will my good people of America you Voted Busch in and you got what you voted for and I can tell you this through experience people pick more loosers than winners. But Who ever wins I will live with it and I will see what happened to all the promisess the made to become president. And the will do what the want. NOt what the people want or what the promised. Its like backing a pool player he can do what he wants with the backers money. THink about it. But no matter what anyone tells you playing one pocket mistake free is the way to go. Because we dont all shoot and bank like Harold Worst And Efrin Or Bugs or EDdie taylor so we have to adjust to OUR ABILITY. THis is very important to ajust to youre ability. And not try to do what the best players try because you have to play and shoot shoots according to yopur ability tell you learn and improve your skills. I hope you understand what I am saying. And good luck with your game and keep thinking and learning and you need to learn to have strong concentration. Take the game serious not like a joke. And remember while you are playing count your mistakes and that you should be able to iomprove on even if you have reached your shooting potential. And if you are serious about becomeing a champion then learn the correct tools and put in more houers and take it more serious and practice what will improve your game and mind. And dont just get some balls and bang them around the table because you like their colores and the way the sound. THis is not a terapy session. Its up to you what you want to be. And I am talking through my experience and I am not selling you a story. But what you have to do to become a great player. If you want it bad enough then give it 100% and go for it. YOU CAN DO IT.

                    Nothing but one pocket.

                    I am starting to hear cleared and clearer what you are describing Artie. There is no doubt that you know what you are talking about. Just in the last couple of weeks I have progressed further along with my recognition of shot selection. When I make a mistake and let whitey get away I am reminded of what you keep saying. Shoot more conservative safe shots until you are more confident that your shooting ability can sustain a somewhat riskier shot selection. Every time I lose a game it is usually because I let whitey get away without fully weighing the penalty of how many balls it's is going to cost me if I miss. Especially if I'm playing someone who is a better shooter. Thanks for all of the advise. Believe me I will use it. And I'm through with the debate on best ever. I'm going to focus more energy and time on getting better myself.

                    I hope you, Dick, Freddy and others continue to share your knowledge and expetise as freely as you have been doing these last weeks.

                    Have a nice day

                    george
                    George

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Dick Mc Morran
                      George,

                      I was not fishing for, nor do I deserve, an apology. You have shown me you are a true gentleman for offering one. Obviously politics and religion are best discussed over a beer or two. Hopefully we'll get to do that someday friend.

                      Dick

                      Thanks for the reply Dick. You are absolutely right. Not only would I have a beer with you but it would be an honor to treat someone of your caliber of one pocket player to a fine meal also. Hopefully I will have that oportunity some day.

                      In my opinion one pocket transcends politics and religion. Especially in a conversation. BTW, I'm not looking for an argument. I'm just frustrated like a lot of other people.

                      thanks again.........george
                      George

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by gbru
                        Nothing but one pocket.

                        I am starting to hear cleared and clearer what you are describing Artie. There is no doubt that you know what you are talking about. Just in the last couple of weeks I have progressed further along with my recognition of shot selection. When I make a mistake and let whitey get away I am reminded of what you keep saying. Shoot more conservative safe shots until you are more confident that your shooting ability can sustain a somewhat riskier shot selection. Every time I lose a game it is usually because I let whitey get away without fully weighing the penalty of how many balls it's is going to cost me if I miss. Especially if I'm playing someone who is a better shooter. Thanks for all of the advise. Believe me I will use it. And I'm through with the debate on best ever. I'm going to focus more energy and time on getting better myself.

                        I hope you, Dick, Freddy and others continue to share your knowledge and expetise as freely as you have been doing these last weeks.

                        Have a nice day

                        george
                        You dont have to apolagize to me as far as I am cocerned you only gave your opinion and I listen to everyones opinion and I belive every one should voice their opinion wether the are wright or wrong or weither we like it or not its better then saying nothing. And I hope you keep playing and learning all the things you need to learn and that goes for everyone. Be the greatest you can be. And maybe we can help to create the greatest one pocket player in life. Because my moey would be on the future player. Because the old and over the hill players cant take it to a higher level anymore. But a young very talanted player can pass us all up if he has the ability and knowledge combined. And I hope such a person comes along. And learns the percentages in one pocket and can play the whole game mistake free and explain exacly what he is doing and WHY. I have given some things to help you with your game and you need to answer the quistions I am asking you yourself. Its ok to ask good player what do I do her but it is more important you learn the lesson then the players who already have the answers. Play hard and play every chance you get. If you want to become a champion and you have the ability. I recomed you eat sleep and think about pool. And if you want it bad enough. Own it. Its all up to the indevidule. And if you dont have the ability of the champion player you can still enjoy the game and learn and understand what you are doing. AND WHY YOU ARE DOING IT. Go ahead and enjoy yourself And the more you learn I promise you you will even enjoy it even more. Because every human being craves for knowledge. And all these players are still playing for the LOVE OF THE GAME. AND IT SHOWES. Be open to learning no mater who it is or how the play. You can learn somthing from everyone. Imagine how great it would be to play a whole game perfect. Their is no greater feeling in life. I have been their and I felte like the whole world was mein. And if you ever get that feeling you will no what I am talking about and how I felt. If you go to the table to practice or play I hope you are playing to learn and wright down what you want to learn. And get the aswers to your quistions. Its a chalange and it is up to you to meet that chalange. I hope everything works out for you and I hope you learn more than the world already knowes. You can do it. Stay positive and keep striving for your goal many people never reach their goal and give up or say it does not matter. But it does matter. You can do whatever you want bad enough. I am trying to incourage you so if that is your goal stay focused tell you reach your goal.

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                        • #42
                          Artie,

                          A lot of us on here really appreciate your participation. It is not often we get to see a little into the thought process of champion caliber players and are very happy with anything you share with us. The same goes for Dick, Grady et al.

                          We gotta keep this great game alive. I can't believe there are pool player who say, "One pocket, that's boring!"

                          We will settle for tips, strategy or stories.

                          DeeMan
                          DeeMan

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Deeman
                            Artie,

                            A lot of us on here really appreciate your participation. It is not often we get to see a little into the thought process of champion caliber players and are very happy with anything you share with us. The same goes for Dick, Grady et al.

                            We gotta keep this great game alive. I can't believe there are pool player who say, "One pocket, that's boring!"

                            We will settle for tips, strategy or stories.

                            DeeMan
                            The reason people think that one pocket is boaring is because the dont understand the game. And why play something the dont understand. One pocket is a control game. Not just a shooting game. Even eight ball is a control game if played correctly. And learning the game and shots and controling the cue ball takes a lot of time and patience. And every champion has gone through tough times and poor shooting. But the over come it and get back to their top game unless father time has slowed them down to much. I love one pocket and I always found it fun and exciting. And people who truly love the game will hold on to it and imbrase it and the dont have to be a champion player. Because it is about the game and not how good you play it. Jerry Hubbart loves one pocket so much he would travel any were in the country to watch a one pocket game. And Bugs was his Hero and champion. And he would have given his right arm to play like Bugs. And these are the people who desirve the credit and the have give their whole life to pool. What more can anyone give then their whole life dedicated to pool. The are the people who keep the spirit of the game alive. And Jerry Hubbart would have flown any were in the world just to watch Bugs and Ronnie Allen play each other. And Thats what I call being loyale to the game.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by gbru
                              Thanks for the reply Dick. You are absolutely right. Not only would I have a beer with you but it would be an honor to treat someone of your caliber of one pocket player to a fine meal also. Hopefully I will have that oportunity some day.

                              In my opinion one pocket transcends politics and religion. Especially in a conversation. BTW, I'm not looking for an argument. I'm just frustrated like a lot of other people.

                              thanks again.........george
                              George,

                              I totally agree, one pocket does transcend politics and religion. (well put) I wonder if ALL politicians get as much satisfaction out of "frustrating" us, as we derive out of playing "squeeze" one pocket ? Those sadistic bast##ds.

                              Tricky Dicky (another name I may have copyright problems with.)
                              Last edited by SJDinPHX; 10-02-2008, 09:11 PM.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Artie Bodendorfer
                                I would like to ask you a quistion who would you take in a game the best shooter and best posision player and the player with the best touch or the player that playes without a mistake. I would like to her a lot of responses on this not just one person.
                                If it was just one game, I would take the shooter/position player because he might be able to play that one game without a mistake, also. His other skills would be better than his oppenent's and that would give him the edge.

                                In a 6 ahead match, I'd go with the guy who doesn't make mistakes. He won't wear down or lose concentration because in order to do anything without mistakes, not just 1p, you have to have mastered yourself by putting yourself through more unpleasantness than your opponent probably ever could. They say Irving Crane used to practice safes against himself for two hours a day, for example.

                                And that in my opinion is the key to a perfect performance at anything. It is not just knowledge and skill, but perfect self-mastery. A person who has mastered himself is very difficult to outperform unless you have mastered yourself as well. It is a helluva thing to watch when two guys like that match up at anything. The Ali-Frazier fights come to mind as a non-pool example.

                                Of course, this is basically the same stuff Artie has already said. I've just been thinking about it is all.

                                Skin

                                P.S. Dick is coming up with a lot of clever, entertaining new nicknames for himself, and as much as I would like to try to do the same for myself, I know it would be a disaster. For example, were I a golfer also I might try to play off of that.

                                "Fore!Skin".

                                See what I mean?

                                S
                                Last edited by Skin; 10-03-2008, 12:34 AM.
                                Skin

                                "It's easy!" - Coach Acosta, former Mexican pro, instructing his 10 y/o little leaguers

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