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A "What to do?" from AzB

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Patrick Johnson
    Here's a shot that was recently posted over on AzB by "daphish1". I think it's an interesting situation that calls for choosing between at least three viable options and wanted to hear more opinions about it, so here it is for the onepocket.org denizens.

    The three main options (for the player with pocket B) discussed on AzB are:

    1. Two-rail the 4, leaving the CB near the top left corner. The argument for this is that it might go and leave an easier shot on the 13. The argument against it is that you might leave a bank on the 4 if it stops short and you don't want to put a third ball in play needing only two.

    2. Cut the 13, leaving the CB on the head rail. The argument for this is that it's aggressive without putting a third ball in play. The argument against it is that the scratch might be too much of a risk.

    3. Three-rail the 13 uptable, leaving the CB on the foot rail for a safety. The argument for this is that it takes a ball out of play and it's time to play tight. I haven't heard the argument against it yet, but I wonder if it's too passive.

    Here's the post from AzB:



    Thanks for your responses,

    pj
    chgo
    Dont think deffense. THink About getting the move on him. You control the game. Make him shoot what you want him to shot. THats another important factor that the greatest players don do. Belive it or not.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Patrick Johnson
      Here's a shot that was recently posted over on AzB by "daphish1". I think it's an interesting situation that calls for choosing between at least three viable options and wanted to hear more opinions about it, so here it is for the onepocket.org denizens.

      The three main options (for the player with pocket B) discussed on AzB are:

      1. Two-rail the 4, leaving the CB near the top left corner. The argument for this is that it might go and leave an easier shot on the 13. The argument against it is that you might leave a bank on the 4 if it stops short and you don't want to put a third ball in play needing only two.

      2. Cut the 13, leaving the CB on the head rail. The argument for this is that it's aggressive without putting a third ball in play. The argument against it is that the scratch might be too much of a risk.

      3. Three-rail the 13 uptable, leaving the CB on the foot rail for a safety. The argument for this is that it takes a ball out of play and it's time to play tight. I haven't heard the argument against it yet, but I wonder if it's too passive.

      Here's the post from AzB:



      Thanks for your responses,

      pj
      chgo

      Patrick, it is completely and totally verbotten to lift something posted on one group and post it to another. Steve is death on this :-)

      Lou Figueroa
      has been to
      the wood shed
      on this one

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by lfigueroa
        Patrick, it is completely and totally verbotten to lift something posted on one group and post it to another. Steve is death on this :-)
        Lou, good poke at the Boothster. But actually in this case, it looks as though we've gained an interested member.

        Daphish, a very general, but trustworthy, statement in answer to your question is: when a tough shot and tough safety are of roughly equal difficulty, take the shot.

        In this particular case there is no benefit to taking the 13-ball shot. If you make the ball, there is no good follow up. The 4-ball is practically a routine 2 rail shot common to 1P; and if you make it, your winning ball is then the 13.

        Welcome to onepocket.org!

        Doc

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by gulfportdoc
          Lou, good poke at the Boothster. But actually in this case, it looks as though we've gained an interested member.

          Daphish, a very general, but trustworthy, statement in answer to your question is: when a tough shot and tough safety are of roughly equal difficulty, take the shot.

          In this particular case there is no benefit to taking the 13-ball shot. If you make the ball, there is no good follow up. The 4-ball is practically a routine 2 rail shot common to 1P; and if you make it, your winning ball is then the 13.

          Welcome to onepocket.org!

          Doc
          If you are just playing deffense then you are playing to loose.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Artie Bodendorfer
            If you are just playing deffense then you are playing to loose.
            if setting a trap is playing defence and "playing defence is playing to lose" .... artie are you now saying we should be shooters? im confused.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by lll
              if setting a trap is playing defence and "playing defence is playing to lose" .... artie are you now saying we should be shooters? im confused.
              Thier Is A Differece just playing safe and not making a mistake. Ray Dooly Played That WAy. When You Play Safe You ave to do something that will help you and put youre opponent in a position to make a mistake. You Think That is playing safe. But You Are Playing Offense Because You Are Playing Safe But You Are putting your opponent in a position to make a mistake. And Putting your opponent in a position to make a mistake is playing offense. You do not have to shot at youre pocket to play offense. But most players just play safe and dont do anything to thier opponent. THATS WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT TO DO. A Deffensive Shot Is Putting You In A position you cant do anything but play safe. A Offensive shot is putting you in a position to make a mistake. And Manovering balls in cetain positions is playing offense not deffense. THis Is Probabbly all new to you because I have never herd anyone else say it. But When you are at the table you can shoot a offensive shot to get youre opponent to make a mistake Like The Shot Billy Was Talkimg About. That Billy And I both choose. And Jay And Dick Didnt like that shot. And If I was Playing Those Are The People To Play Because THe Are not going to put any real pressure on you with thier shots. THe are playing a great safe game. And The Will Win With it . Excepte not against a good player. RAy Dooly was a Perfect Example. He Played a safe game . But He Realy Didnt do anything. And He Played Banks The Same Way. I hope this helps you?

              Comment


              • #22
                it does help. i look at it as billy would say "a productive inning" as one where you strengthened your position and end with pressure on the opponent. like you said offense isnt always making a ball, offensive defence. just playing safe is survival shooting and that is a sure way to lose.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by lll
                  it does help. i look at it as billy would say "a productive inning" as one where you strengthened your position and end with pressure on the opponent. like you said offense isnt always making a ball, offensive defence. just playing safe is survival shooting and that is a sure way to lose.
                  Very Good I Have Been Pushing This From The Beginning When I Sarted Posting. The Way You Explain It Tahe Is Exacly what I Am Tal;king about. I Am Very Happy That You Under stant. An Its Great Because I Know That I Am not just talking to myself. AND reasuring myself. That Is Correct. And Playing safe and not doing anything is not playing correct one pocket. Like Hopkines and varner waiting for some one to make a mistake. Thier is way more to correct one pocket then playing that style. Or Playing Like Ronnie Bugs And Efren And shooting at every shot no mater what the ods are. BUt I am Very Happy That Some One Can See That You Can Play Offense By shooting certain shots. That Turn Out Better Then Shooting A ball at your whole. You can play offense by were you put the cue ball and the object balls. But Thats Good that you understand it. THats A Great Way To Think To Improve your one pocket game.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I'm pretty sure I'm offensive minded but If I only need two this seems like a pretty good spot to be in. Considering the score it leaves the most balls up table and with the nine there it makes it a tough play for my opponent to take out the 13 (if it doesn't go in)without selling a bank.

                    just my $.02

                    Dudley

                    <a href="http://cuetable.com/Support/Installing_Adobe_Shockwave.htm"> <IMG SRC= "http://CueTable.com/images/CueTableShockwaveMsg.jpg" WIDTH=750 HEIGHT=450 BORDER=0> </a>
                    CueTable Help
                    Last edited by Dudley; 05-28-2009, 12:28 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by lfigueroa
                      Patrick, it is completely and totally verbotten to lift something posted on one group and post it to another. Steve is death on this :-)

                      Lou Figueroa
                      has been to
                      the wood shed
                      on this one
                      Always trying to stir things up

                      Now, now, haven't you noticed I even edited "Respect" so that covers both directions But isn't it true in the science lab, going from the general to the specific -- that helps you obtain a concentration; while going from the specific to general -- that would be dilution, lol. Lou ---> who got himself some diluted science advice

                      And to daphish1, thank you for your patience signing up, and welcome to the One pocket fun house!
                      "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
                      -- Strawberry Brooks

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by NH Steve
                        Always trying to stir things up

                        Now, now, haven't you noticed I even edited "Respect" so that covers both directions But isn't it true in the science lab, going from the general to the specific -- that helps you obtain a concentration; while going from the specific to general -- that would be dilution, lol. Lou ---> who got himself some diluted science advice

                        And to daphish1, thank you for your patience signing up, and welcome to the One pocket fun house!

                        If you think I'm breathlessly checking the stickies every few days -- for edits -- you are dreaming :-)

                        Lou Figueroa

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by gulfportdoc
                          Lou, good poke at the Boothster. But actually in this case, it looks as though we've gained an interested member.

                          Daphish, a very general, but trustworthy, statement in answer to your question is: when a tough shot and tough safety are of roughly equal difficulty, take the shot.

                          In this particular case there is no benefit to taking the 13-ball shot. If you make the ball, there is no good follow up. The 4-ball is practically a routine 2 rail shot common to 1P; and if you make it, your winning ball is then the 13.

                          Welcome to onepocket.org!

                          Doc
                          The score is 6 to 6 and you have a relatively free shot on the 4 ball,with 3 balls out of play. This is a perfect time to shoot for your hole, it looks like to me an ideal situation.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by gulfportdoc
                            Lou, good poke at the Boothster. But actually in this case, it looks as though we've gained an interested member.

                            Daphish, a very general, but trustworthy, statement in answer to your question is: when a tough shot and tough safety are of roughly equal difficulty, take the shot.

                            In this particular case there is no benefit to taking the 13-ball shot. If you make the ball, there is no good follow up. The 4-ball is practically a routine 2 rail shot common to 1P; and if you make it, your winning ball is then the 13.

                            Welcome to onepocket.org!

                            Doc
                            Doc,
                            thanks for the welcome, hope to learn a bunch here.

                            In general, as long as i don't think i'm going to sell out i'll take the shot. Since i'm just startin out playing 1 pocket (under 100 games played) i still have alot to learn. What i strugle with is plaing what i think is correct and leaving my oponent what i'd think they'd never shoot at but occasionally they do and the make a great shot (some of the time) and get out.

                            Lol, i've already taken from artie that you are always thinking offensive, trying to put you opponent in a position to make a mistake. It's a great approach, as long as you can remain in controll of the game you can win..

                            I'm trying to get to the point of what Bradon Shuff told me, to put a "Devastating shot" on somone, a shot that basically your opponent can't recover from. Still working on that one I've had a few games where i've been able to do this, just not frequently enough

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The roasting of Eddie Robin

                              I just took a peek at this same thread over on AZ. My old pal, Eddie Robin is firmly entrenched in one of their flame wars re his shot selection. He's been told to "grow up," "go fly a kite" and etc. A very dangerous environment at times. I was going to stick my nose in, but I thought better of it. That's what he gets for not posting here among the elite and cognoscenti. Although he and Artie would probably not get along.

                              the Beard

                              Race Track Phil and I used to end our frequent arguments with Artie by lunging at his throat.
                              New stuff on my site. 100s of pgs. of pool goodness
                              www.bankingwiththebeard.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by fred bentivegna
                                I just took a peek at this same thread over on AZ. My old pal, Eddie Robin is firmly entrenched in one of their flame wars re his shot selection. He's been told to "grow up," "go fly a kite" and etc. A very dangerous environment at times. I was going to stick my nose in, but I thought better of it. That's what he gets for not posting here among the elite and cognoscenti. Although he and Artie would probably not get along.

                                the Beard

                                Race Track Phil and I used to end our frequent arguments with Artie by lunging at his throat.
                                I was wondering why he wasn't posting over here too. I see he is already a member here.... he's only got 4 posts, but he must have logged in over here this month because his last activity was May 16th.

                                Surely he wouldn't think the waters were more calm on that side of the world, would he?

                                Someone ought to tell him that there is a thread over here about his books.

                                We got WEI tables too, lots of them to "debate" and "expound" on.

                                Comment

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