A "What to do?" from AzB

Patrick Johnson

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Here's a shot that was recently posted over on AzB by "daphish1". I think it's an interesting situation that calls for choosing between at least three viable options and wanted to hear more opinions about it, so here it is for the onepocket.org denizens.

The three main options (for the player with pocket B) discussed on AzB are:

1. Two-rail the 4, leaving the CB near the top left corner. The argument for this is that it might go and leave an easier shot on the 13. The argument against it is that you might leave a bank on the 4 if it stops short and you don't want to put a third ball in play needing only two.

2. Cut the 13, leaving the CB on the head rail. The argument for this is that it's aggressive without putting a third ball in play. The argument against it is that the scratch might be too much of a risk.

3. Three-rail the 13 uptable, leaving the CB on the foot rail for a safety. The argument for this is that it takes a ball out of play and it's time to play tight. I haven't heard the argument against it yet, but I wonder if it's too passive.

Here's the post from AzB:

daphish1:

I had this shot earlier, I was at 6 (pocket B). What shot do you shoot? I was playing against a guy who i consider a better shot then me so always thinking defense. I did get out but curious what other people would do. I haven't played much one pocket so still learning and would like to see how others would play this

[cuetable]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4APYW4BXon4CRTT3DJdG1IAMe1MADS4PDvh1RdOv@[/WEI][/cuetable]

Thanks for your responses,

pj
chgo
 

Fanatic

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Patrick Johnson said:
Here's a shot that was recently posted over on AzB by "daphish1". I think it's an interesting situation that calls for choosing between at least three viable options and wanted to hear more opinions about it, so here it is for the onepocket.org denizens.

The three main options (for the player with pocket B) discussed on AzB are:

1. Two-rail the 4, leaving the CB near the top left corner. The argument for this is that it might go and leave an easier shot on the 13. The argument against it is that you might leave a bank on the 4 if it stops short and you don't want to put a third ball in play needing only two.

2. Cut the 13, leaving the CB on the head rail. The argument for this is that it's aggressive without putting a third ball in play. The argument against it is that the scratch might be too much of a risk.

3. Three-rail the 13 uptable, leaving the CB on the foot rail for a safety. The argument for this is that it takes a ball out of play and it's time to play tight. I haven't heard the argument against it yet, but I wonder if it's too passive.

Here's the post from AzB:



Thanks for your responses,

pj
chgo


I would 2 rail the 4 at pocket speed and leave the qball on the rail nice and long for my opponent. If it goes I have a chance at pocketing two more balls and if not I put him on some serious defense. I certainly wouldn't want to leave the qball anywhere near the scoring pockets at this point. IMHO.
XOXO
Fanny
 

lll

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^^^^^^ my shot selection too. also it moves the 4 from his side taking a good ball for him out of position
 

senor

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Cut the thirteen, you make it you need one. You miss it, ideally you have a ball near your pocket with whitey downtown and your opponent needs to decide whether to shoot the 9 or move the 13. Neither being a great option, but that's what they're left with behind in the count.

Where are they talking about scratching? Straight into the corner?
 

androd

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Saw the 13 ball in, you might get shape on the 3 ball.
Rod. >>.------ still a gofer.
PS; As to the 4 ball, no reason to move another ball into play. although it isn't a bad shot.
 

lll

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fanny i think the seasoned players are going to play the score which is probably the percentage way to win the game. so even tho tempting proably that shot ( 2 railing the 4) selection will be in the minority. we will see.
 

senor

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lll said:
i assume thats the scratch. what dont you like about options #1 and #3?

Being ahead in the count, I would not two rail the 4 ball unless the cue ball and the object ball were a little closer and the angle was "on" or straight in.

I'm not sure what option #3 was because I quickly dismissed it after having seen that it had to do with moving the 13 back downtown. I would not be trying to move the 13 or the 9 downtown if I had a free shot at one of them. Shooting at the 13 seems like the easiest shot available that has little risk.

I can't believe some of the dissenters to this shot are worried about that scratch.
 

Dudley

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I shoot the 13 all day. You can leave your opponent in a tough spot no matter what. And when it goes in you'll have a shot at something to win the game.

I'm with senor on the scratch it doesn't exist unless you miss by a daimond or so.

Dudley
 

lll

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not trying to hijack the thread but isnt there a guideline to when the scratch is a worry with the spot shot. i use the "feel" method by eyeballing the tangent line but i vaguely remember something about if the q is near the first diamond by the corner there is a potential scratch if you are trying to thin cut the spotted ball to the pocket on the same side. maybe someone can clarify this or does everyone do it by "eye"?
 

daphish1

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my account finally got activated, this was my original post on AZ. I'm just a novice one pocket player and never really thought to play more uptable from this position. I'm slowly starting to see some of the more subtle things you need to win in 1 pocket consistently from the few posts people made.

When do you play a semi-difficult shot when you don't think your opponent can get out from the shape you left them in? Most people i play in 1 pocket aren't world beaters (well none of them) but i'd like to play the game correctly.
 

androd

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lll said:
not trying to hijack the thread but isnt there a guideline to when the scratch is a worry with the spot shot. i use the "feel" method by eyeballing the tangent line but i vaguely remember something about if the q is near the first diamond by the corner there is a potential scratch if you are trying to thin cut the spotted ball to the pocket on the same side. maybe someone can clarify this or does everyone do it by "eye"?

Larry lll, there's a diagram from Willie Hoppes' book in the Carom thread, that may help you see or feel it better.
Rod.
 

blackeee

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Jackson, Tn
Patrick Johnson said:
Here's a shot that was recently posted over on AzB by "daphish1". I think it's an interesting situation that calls for choosing between at least three viable options and wanted to hear more opinions about it, so here it is for the onepocket.org denizens.

The three main options (for the player with pocket B) discussed on AzB are:

1. Two-rail the 4, leaving the CB near the top left corner. The argument for this is that it might go and leave an easier shot on the 13. The argument against it is that you might leave a bank on the 4 if it stops short and you don't want to put a third ball in play needing only two.

2. Cut the 13, leaving the CB on the head rail. The argument for this is that it's aggressive without putting a third ball in play. The argument against it is that the scratch might be too much of a risk.

3. Three-rail the 13 uptable, leaving the CB on the foot rail for a safety. The argument for this is that it takes a ball out of play and it's time to play tight. I haven't heard the argument against it yet, but I wonder if it's too passive.

Here's the post from AzB:



Thanks for your responses,

pj
chgo

I'd 2 rail the four playing it on the short side. If you miss it it forces your opponet to move it and leave the cue ball on the rail under the 9. you can then maybe knock both the nine and the 13 out of play or one or the other of them. If I'm feeling good I'd just haul off and cut the 13 in.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Patrick Johnson said:
Here's a shot that was recently posted over on AzB by "daphish1". I think it's an interesting situation that calls for choosing between at least three viable options and wanted to hear more opinions about it, so here it is for the onepocket.org denizens.

The three main options (for the player with pocket B) discussed on AzB are:

1. Two-rail the 4, leaving the CB near the top left corner. The argument for this is that it might go and leave an easier shot on the 13. The argument against it is that you might leave a bank on the 4 if it stops short and you don't want to put a third ball in play needing only two.

2. Cut the 13, leaving the CB on the head rail. The argument for this is that it's aggressive without putting a third ball in play. The argument against it is that the scratch might be too much of a risk.

3. Three-rail the 13 uptable, leaving the CB on the foot rail for a safety. The argument for this is that it takes a ball out of play and it's time to play tight. I haven't heard the argument against it yet, but I wonder if it's too passive.

Here's the post from AzB:



Thanks for your responses,

pj
chgo
Dont think deffense. THink About getting the move on him. You control the game. Make him shoot what you want him to shot. THats another important factor that the greatest players don do. Belive it or not.
 

lfigueroa

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Patrick Johnson said:
Here's a shot that was recently posted over on AzB by "daphish1". I think it's an interesting situation that calls for choosing between at least three viable options and wanted to hear more opinions about it, so here it is for the onepocket.org denizens.

The three main options (for the player with pocket B) discussed on AzB are:

1. Two-rail the 4, leaving the CB near the top left corner. The argument for this is that it might go and leave an easier shot on the 13. The argument against it is that you might leave a bank on the 4 if it stops short and you don't want to put a third ball in play needing only two.

2. Cut the 13, leaving the CB on the head rail. The argument for this is that it's aggressive without putting a third ball in play. The argument against it is that the scratch might be too much of a risk.

3. Three-rail the 13 uptable, leaving the CB on the foot rail for a safety. The argument for this is that it takes a ball out of play and it's time to play tight. I haven't heard the argument against it yet, but I wonder if it's too passive.

Here's the post from AzB:



Thanks for your responses,

pj
chgo


Patrick, it is completely and totally verbotten to lift something posted on one group and post it to another. Steve is death on this :)

Lou Figueroa
has been to
the wood shed
on this one
 

gulfportdoc

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lfigueroa said:
Patrick, it is completely and totally verbotten to lift something posted on one group and post it to another. Steve is death on this :)
Lou, good poke at the Boothster.;) But actually in this case, it looks as though we've gained an interested member.

Daphish, a very general, but trustworthy, statement in answer to your question is: when a tough shot and tough safety are of roughly equal difficulty, take the shot.

In this particular case there is no benefit to taking the 13-ball shot. If you make the ball, there is no good follow up. The 4-ball is practically a routine 2 rail shot common to 1P; and if you make it, your winning ball is then the 13.

Welcome to onepocket.org!

Doc
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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gulfportdoc said:
Lou, good poke at the Boothster.;) But actually in this case, it looks as though we've gained an interested member.

Daphish, a very general, but trustworthy, statement in answer to your question is: when a tough shot and tough safety are of roughly equal difficulty, take the shot.

In this particular case there is no benefit to taking the 13-ball shot. If you make the ball, there is no good follow up. The 4-ball is practically a routine 2 rail shot common to 1P; and if you make it, your winning ball is then the 13.

Welcome to onepocket.org!

Doc
If you are just playing deffense then you are playing to loose.
 

lll

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
If you are just playing deffense then you are playing to loose.
if setting a trap is playing defence and "playing defence is playing to lose" .... artie are you now saying we should be shooters? im confused.:confused:
 
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