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  • #16
    Questions:
    Could industrious conditional integrity lead to problems?
    Is snooze you lose in a rule book?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis
      John,

      You're gonna wanna be careful about seeing things the way I do, people will start to think you're strange .

      Dennis
      I knew better than to say what I think first.Thanks for backing me up.I think you just explained It perfect.John B.
      Click here to order the DVD
      Click here to order JB shirts

      Comment


      • #18
        [QUOTE=markgriffin]So - with the questions about 'snooze you loose' - or if you had a legitimate reason for not having your eyes on the table.

        Do you guys think we should have a ref on the final table? Who would rule on all fouls made?

        Would this be a good addition and on which matches should a ref be present.

        We cannot have a ref on every table and every shot - but we can on so many of the final matches.

        Your thoughts???

        mark Griffin
        (markg@playcsipool.com)
        702-719-7665 office[/QUOT


        Her you go Mark. Griffen. Number one everyone is responsable for thier own game and table. No exceptions.

        Even if a bomb goes off. Number two. Ask both players ahead off time iff they need a reff or not.

        If you have enough Reffs I would use them in the finale 8 games down twords thee end.In every game.

        Any shot that is qouistionable where a foul can oqouer or could happen. Both players must stand at the table and waite for a referee to come by and call the shot.

        The player cannot shoot while the other player is standing at the table tell a refferee showes up. And calls the shot.

        If the player shoots any way. He spots up a ball and looses his balls he made in that inning and its his opponents shot.

        Breacking this rule twice in the same match. Is diequalification. And loss off match.

        Just so thier are no tricks. The player who wants a reff to call the shot. Has to be standing up by the head off the table with his hand in the air. So the reff can see him.

        And two players standing at the table should be noticed by a referee.


        A player cannot run up too the table the last few seconds and call for a reff .

        Or run up too the table too shark the player. Or put in a claim.

        You need one or two head referees. In case A reff didnt see the shot or cant make a decision.

        Waite and see what happines if the player doesnt call a foul let the game continue.

        If the player calls a foul and the other player agrees then let the game continue.

        If the player says he didnt foul then both players have a choice. flip a coin for who gets the decision. OR play the game over. And flip for the breack.

        Anything that happines in a game rule or a tecknacalities.. The head referee makes a fair decision. Or go by the rules they are playing by first.

        Any player trying to talk or shark his opponent. Or bothers the shooter in any way. A reff needs to be thier watching their game.

        And unsportsmanship conduct is not allowed. And the player needs too be bared from playing in your totrnement.

        You do not need people like that playing in your tournement. Because they will do whatever they can th shark and talk too win the game.

        You do not need players like that. And thier are people like that. And you people running the tournements still let them play.

        These people need too be told one time site down and keep quite no mumbling or talking too the audience. No moveing around while the other player is shooting,

        Any out bursts or extra talking . Is didqualification from the game. And out off your tournements.

        And the players no who these few people are.

        Any rule or claim made the head reff must make a fair decision. And if a reff doesnt no the rule. Ask the head reff.


        This should keepthe tournement pretty honest. And Peace full.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by sappo
          Dennis, i think your comments are for the most part absolutely correct but this is one that i have to disagree with.
          I dont know about the other members here but my position is when John represents OnePocket.org in Las Vegas I hope he would call a foul on himself if he committed one. Keith
          Hello sappo.I knew this was going to be a sticky subject that's why I wanted to bring It up. I have been arguing with people about this for quite some time.
          IMO If there Is not a ref watching the match and EVERY shot then It's your opp job to watch every little thing that happens.That means don't drop anything or look away while I'm shooting.Pay attention. I'll say It again, that's why I brought It up.If Mark wants to make a rule that says you MUST call your own fouls,I will be glad to.Untill then.........NO Sorry to sound mean
          But that's how I feel about this.John B.
          Click here to order the DVD
          Click here to order JB shirts

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by John Brumback
            This might be a dumb ? or It might have been gone over,But anyway....
            What if your opp Is not paying attention and you don't hit a rail after contact,
            do you call It on yourself or not? I have wondered about this for a long time.
            Thanks,John B.
            I made a living for many years booking the sports. a lot of my success was based my reputation and word. I thought it would look bad to people I was doing credit business to not seem honest. I've played a lot of high stakes pool. When my opponent was OK and not doing anything wrong, if I fouled I put one up. Playing cheap with jerks I still volunteer them. I even leave my made balls in the rack below the front of the table, I haven't had more than one stolen by the same guy.
            Rod.
            PS, I certainly understand you and Cowboy's point of view and think it to be technically correct.
            Rod.

            Rodney Stephens.
            (e-mail) rod.stephens0105@att.net(e-mail) #713-973-0503 is now working

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis
              Steve,

              When I was playing John McCue at your place I shot a ball and he was turned around lighting a cigarrette. He turned around when I shot a slow moving safety and he never saw anything hit a rail although a couple of balls did. He took a chance anyway, just to see how stupid I was. He said "did you get a rail there?". I told him that if he had been watching the shot then he would know. That ended the conversation.

              As to your question: I have never and would never fail to see my opponents shot and then ask what happened. It's my possible loss for not paying attention to his shot.

              Dennis
              I would feel stupid If i had to ask my opp what just happened. I like It when I'm playing somebody banks and I have to say "hey... over here" I'm going to call this shot..umm straight back. Another reason I don't think anyone should ware head phones and the like. John B.
              Click here to order the DVD
              Click here to order JB shirts

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by sappo
                John, i guess if your opponent doesnt see it you could get away with it BUT if you fail to hit a rail IT IS A FOUL! I beleive you should tell your opponent you fouled, that is if you have integrity.. keith
                Sappo,It's not about "getting away with It" And I have alot of (Integrity)
                It's not cheating or anything thing close to that. I'm sorry you feel that way. John B.
                Click here to order the DVD
                Click here to order JB shirts

                Comment


                • #23
                  Often the shooter isn't aware of the foul that has been committed.

                  And visa versa;He may be watching the Object ball to see if it hit a rail and it doesn't but the cue ball did. He calls a foul on himself and it is a wrong call.

                  Most players will call the obvious fouls because they think they are suppose to. In the rules, the non-shooter is suppose to make the calls.

                  Calling fouls on yourself may make you feel good about yourself, but if you are talking about "integrity" who will go back and refile their taxes when they find mistakes that cause them to pay more?

                  When you run a stop sign, do you look for a cop to write you a ticket?

                  When playing in a ref''d match, if you are talking while your opponent is at the table it is considered unsportsmanlike conduct. Silent and in your assigned chair is the tournament rule when there is a Ref presiding. The ref is there to make calls, this is to relieve the shooter from having to make calls on himself and for the non-shooter to be represented at the table.
                  Last edited by SactownTom; 03-28-2011, 12:56 AM.
                  Been practicing more and more... still need a consistant stroke and glasses

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    IMO area refs should be available for all money matches. Table refs for each of the final 4 matches. Just my opinion.

                    Originally posted by markgriffin
                    So - with the questions about 'snooze you loose' - or if you had a legitimate reason for not having your eyes on the table.

                    Do you guys think we should have a ref on the final table? Who would rule on all fouls made?

                    Would this be a good addition and on which matches should a ref be present.

                    We cannot have a ref on every table and every shot - but we can on so many of the final matches.

                    Your thoughts???

                    mark Griffin
                    (markg@playcsipool.com)
                    702-719-7665 office
                    Been practicing more and more... still need a consistant stroke and glasses

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Refs should be available for TV/streaming matches at a a major event and also the semis and finals obviously. In One Pocket it is needed more than most games because of the little tippy tap shots and stack play.
                      www.ontherailtv.com

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        [QUOTE=John Brumback]Sappo,It's not about "getting away with It" And I have alot of (Integrity)
                        It's not cheating or anything thing close to that. I'm sorry you feel that way. John B.[/QUOTE

                        Your playing too win. Not to get the nicest guy off the year award. People loose all the time because they make mistakes.

                        If a player is not watching and something happines its not Johns faulte or responsability too tell the player anything. Its the players responsability too watch the game.

                        And if he cant do that he souldnt be playing. Ansking someone else to do hid responsability too help him win. Its not Johs fault.

                        But the other players. For nor doing what he is supoose too do. I guess if you have a choice your life or someone elses life.

                        You shoild die for him for integraty. Even if it was your faulte in the accedent.

                        In the real world we are responsable for our mistakes. And so is the other person. And the responsability is too look out for ourselves.

                        And if a person sleeps a mistake that you made but it was his responsability. To call it and see it. And thier are people who loose thier money.

                        Because they are fools waiting to get beat. Thier are a millions off them in the Casinos every day.

                        And playing pool with some one you can beat fof 10 thousand you should have integraty and not beat him. Because he has no chance too win.

                        Itegraty is one thing being a fool is another. And a fool and his money soon depart.

                        And their are millions off fools getting taken every day. Look at the car salesman. New and used. How mant people loose every day that has no chance too win.

                        Look at Rosse he never won. After 15 million dollaers. Where is the integraty. And a person sleeps a scratch. Its not on John its on the other player.

                        One more just too make this clear. You play gin rummy and you discard his gin card. He doesnt pick it up and it was his gin card. Should you tell him.

                        You bet a sports bet in the casino after your team wins the game. You go to collect youre money. And the teller tells you thats the loosing team on your ticket.

                        You loose. Not doing what is your responsability in a game is all on you not the player. Who got away with the scratch. Its got nothing too do with integraty.


                        And John said it real nice Im sorry you feel that way. I would have told you you deserve it and hope you learned something from it.

                        Pay attention to the game and the stupitity wont show up. Thier are no excuses you either watch the game.

                        And see what is going on. Or its simple if you cant protect yourself ion a game. Why are you playing .

                        You have no buisness gambling or playing in a tournement. If you dont no the rules or protect whats your responsability too do.

                        Maybe U should tell you youre shooting in my pocket too. Its up too the player. Too watch the game and if a rule is brocken.

                        Tell the player what he did. And he pays for his mistake.

                        But you want me to rat on myself. And call it integraty. I call that a Idiote. Too rat on youreself.

                        John has lots off integraty. In fact that might be his weakness being too nice.

                        I say it just the way it is. If a sucker wants too get beat then so be it.

                        He has a choice to play or not too play. He has a choice too call the foul or not too call it.

                        THe mistake was made by the other person not calling the foul. John didnt do anything out off line.

                        If the other player would have called a foul . John would have spotted a
                        ball. But the player didnt do what he was supose too.

                        Thats the other players faulte not Johns And you are putting the blame on the wrong person.

                        Put it on the idiote that deserves it. Not on someone that didnt do anything. Nothing in the rule book says you have too help your oponent with the rules.

                        This isnt a nice guys contest. Thie is playing too win. And you watch the game and the rules.

                        And its your responsability too call a foul. Not your opponent calling a foul on himself.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          too each his own. i am a cold blooded hustler at times but i feel it is my job to always have a stellar rep. my opponent knows he can go to the can and come back and he gets the right count.

                          if i scratch i put one up with out anyone saying a word. i expect the same from my opponent. if he plays the other way i watch him like a hawk.

                          if it is okay to not call one on yourself then it follows that every time you scratch that may not be clear you should quickly shoot again so you miss the penalty. is that okay as well.

                          in a tournament i feel it is entirely different as there are srict rules and sportsmanship isnt involved. as long as you do not violate the rules its fair game.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            [QUOTE=Artie Bodendorfer]
                            Originally posted by John Brumback
                            Sappo,It's not about "getting away with It" And I have alot of (Integrity)
                            It's not cheating or anything thing close to that. I'm sorry you feel that way. John B.[/QUOTE

                            Your playing too win. Not to get the nicest guy off the year award. People loose all the time because they make mistakes.

                            If a player is not watching and something happines its not Johns faulte or responsability too tell the player anything. Its the players responsability too watch the game.

                            And if he cant do that he souldnt be playing. Ansking someone else to do hid responsability too help him win. Its not Johs fault.

                            But the other players. For nor doing what he is supoose too do. I guess if you have a choice your life or someone elses life.

                            You shoild die for him for integraty. Even if it was your faulte in the accedent.

                            In the real world we are responsable for our mistakes. And so is the other person. And the responsability is too look out for ourselves.

                            And if a person sleeps a mistake that you made but it was his responsability. To call it and see it. And thier are people who loose thier money.

                            Because they are fools waiting to get beat. Thier are a millions off them in the Casinos every day.

                            And playing pool with some one you can beat fof 10 thousand you should have integraty and not beat him. Because he has no chance too win.

                            Itegraty is one thing being a fool is another. And a fool and his money soon depart.

                            And their are millions off fools getting taken every day. Look at the car salesman. New and used. How mant people loose every day that has no chance too win.

                            Look at Rosse he never won. After 15 million dollaers. Where is the integraty. And a person sleeps a scratch. Its not on John its on the other player.

                            One more just too make this clear. You play gin rummy and you discard his gin card. He doesnt pick it up and it was his gin card. Should you tell him.

                            You bet a sports bet in the casino after your team wins the game. You go to collect youre money. And the teller tells you thats the loosing team on your ticket.

                            You loose. Not doing what is your responsability in a game is all on you not the player. Who got away with the scratch. Its got nothing too do with integraty.


                            And John said it real nice Im sorry you feel that way. I would have told you you deserve it and hope you learned something from it.

                            Pay attention to the game and the stupitity wont show up. Thier are no excuses you either watch the game.

                            And see what is going on. Or its simple if you cant protect yourself ion a game. Why are you playing .

                            You have no buisness gambling or playing in a tournement. If you dont no the rules or protect whats your responsability too do.

                            Maybe U should tell you youre shooting in my pocket too. Its up too the player. Too watch the game and if a rule is brocken.

                            Tell the player what he did. And he pays for his mistake.

                            But you want me to rat on myself. And call it integraty. I call that a Idiote. Too rat on youreself.

                            John has lots off integraty. In fact that might be his weakness being too nice.

                            I say it just the way it is. If a sucker wants too get beat then so be it.

                            He has a choice to play or not too play. He has a choice too call the foul or not too call it.

                            THe mistake was made by the other person not calling the foul. John didnt do anything out off line.

                            If the other player would have called a foul . John would have spotted a
                            ball. But the player didnt do what he was supose too.

                            Thats the other players faulte not Johns And you are putting the blame on the wrong person.

                            Put it on the idiote that deserves it. Not on someone that didnt do anything. Nothing in the rule book says you have too help your oponent with the rules.

                            This isnt a nice guys contest. Thie is playing too win. And you watch the game and the rules.

                            And its your responsability too call a foul. Not your opponent calling a foul on himself.
                            Artie, for years youve said all your cared about was getting the money. Thats who you are but that does mean everyone who play the game feels the same way and it doesnt mean that a player who calls a foul on himself is a sucker. Rather it means he is a man that can be trusted, a man with integrity. To a lot of people that is very important, more important than losing a ball or losing a game.

                            John asked a question and he got a few response. its his decision how he chooses to play. Keith

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by beatle
                              too each his own. i am a cold blooded hustler at times but i feel it is my job to always have a stellar rep. my opponent knows he can go to the can and come back and he gets the right count.

                              if i scratch i put one up with out anyone saying a word. i expect the same from my opponent. if he plays the other way i watch him like a hawk.

                              if it is okay to not call one on yourself then it follows that every time you scratch that may not be clear you should quickly shoot again so you miss the penalty. is that okay as well.

                              in a tournament i feel it is entirely different as there are srict rules and sportsmanship isnt involved. as long as you do not violate the rules its fair game.

                              I played Bugs a lot off times . We never did anything against each other. We never checket the rack. We never would sleeop balls , And we never called a foull on each other.

                              I paly the same way. I played John And I went too the bath room I told him he could shoot. I no who I was playing. And I dont win by taking shots or makeing false clams.

                              But just because I dont do anything that does not mean that someone who is. That didnt breack no rules. And the player slepte it. I still make the correct choice.

                              And if a player sleeps his responsability. Its that persons faulte. Its not the players responsability toogive himself up. And help the other player.

                              Just like if a person cant win and looses a lot off money. its nobodys faulte but the person who lost the money. If he wats too be a fool or a sucker.

                              Then so be it. If he wants too give his money away. He is the person doing it. He made the choice too play. We have too be responsable for our mistakes.

                              We are not responsable forother peoples mistakes. We are responsable for our mistakes. And in life some mistakes we make we get away with .

                              And we call it luck. We cannont be held accountable for what another person is suposse too do.

                              Just like if I throw a winning ticket away and i thought it lost. Nobody id responsable but me.

                              And have have done that more then once. It happines in the casinos and race books. And even droping money out off our pocket.

                              If I drop 1 hundred dollaer bill. And someone picks it up. They didnt do anything wrong. I made the mistake. And if I get lucky enough too get it back.

                              I give them 10 or 20 dollars But if they would have keepte it. They didnt do
                              anything dishonest. Im the fool for droping it.

                              Or if I play pool and my opponent foules and I dont see it. Its all on me. Integraty has nothing too do with my stupitity.

                              If someone goes too the bath room and tells me too shoot and I Foul. Then Its my responsability and other players too.

                              Too make the right call. Because you are bonding a agreemont with trust.

                              And thatsa different sercomestance. And when a player tells mre too shoot I never shoot tell he gets back.

                              Because I dont want no dought on weather my shot was legele or not. Because a sweather mite tell him that I cheated him while he was in the bath room and I shot and even moved a ball with my hand.

                              I dont want no dought in the players mind that I am playing. And I will never shoot tell he comes back. And thats how I feel. And thats doing the wright thing taken all the dought out what happened.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Seriously consider the consequences of implementing this rule - something as little as a player creating a distraction, a fan distracting, or for instance someone bringing a drink to a player can cause the distraction needed to let an error slip judgement. It is not a PROFESSIONAL players duty to forgo a drink of water during play to abide by the proposed rules there. It IS your duty to see it all happen when playing un-reff'ed, or matching up, which is all amateur - to my knowledge the pro tour does not sponsor or promote gambling.

                                A professional sport requires a professional setting.

                                For the record, I agree in full with Dennis with that opinion, when gambling, in amateur events, and in any setting where a ref is not an option. However I fully believe it is to the integrity of the SPORT at a professional level, that you call fouls on yourself. I am VERY firm on this, and know of two times I myself let it go in nine ball after an opponent misses, leaves you hooked, you kick two rails, hit the ball, and it lays up 1/16 from the rail.

                                My very shot itself created the distraction - the excitement in the railbirds and clapping- YES it is his ultimate responsibility, but there are situations where the situation is bigger than the player. The true greats speak with their cue. You MUST facilitate that in any professional event.
                                The "Tyrranosaurus" of "One-Porous"..

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