Calling a foul

[newfosgatesucks]

How many players call a foul here? Literally, do you expect a player to leave the table, wait for opponent to select a shot, interrupt and say "Let me see if it is frozen" Here? HERE?

CueTable Help

A ref catches this. A player will not 99 percent of the time - he just sees a straight down the rail shot, no threat of a foul , he is just hoping it misses. But Now, You would be STRAIGHT IN on game ball. Refs are trained. Players are not, for this type of situation.

A player needs to be able to relax and focus on HIS inning at the table. That is the perk of ANY professional sporting event. There are literally dozens more of overlooked situations, a hand full of which can slip by a top professional.

But now be reasonalbe and HONEST...would you know to be on your toes for a potential foul waiting for this shot - PROBABLY not. And this is how we judge PROFESSIONAL EVENTS!!!!

[newfosgatesucks]

BTW, this is my resume for applying to be a ref. I'll do it for 25,000 and expenses. Come on, poverty is 27,000....Let me be impoverished and help the game out.

[Cowboy Dennis]

too each his own. i am a cold blooded hustler at times but i feel it is my job to always have a stellar rep. my opponent knows he can go to the can and come back and he gets the right count. This thread has nothing to do with the theft of balls while oppo is away.

if i scratch i put one up with out anyone saying a word. i expect the same from my opponent. if he plays the other way i watch him like a hawk.Watching like a hawk is your duty and responsibility when it's not your inning.

if it is okay to not call one on yourself then it follows that every time you scratch that may not be clear you should quickly shoot again so you miss the penalty. is that okay as well.This is simply ludicrous.

in a tournament i feel it is entirely different as there are srict rules and sportsmanship isnt involved. as long as you do not violate the rules its fair game. From SactownTom: In the rules, the non-shooter is suppose to make the calls.

Artie, for years youve said all your cared about was getting the money. Thats who you are but that does mean everyone who play the game feels the same way and it doesnt mean that a player who calls a foul on himself is a sucker. Rather it means he is a man that can be trusted, a man with integrity. To a lot of people that is very important, more important than losing a ball or losing a game.

John asked a question and he got a few response. its his decision how he chooses to play. Keith

I'm disappointed that anyone would equate this with being dishonest or lacking integrity or not being trustworthy. Let me be perfectly clear here:I will not let YOU call a foul on yourself and spot a ball up. You can put it in your pocket, in your ear or in the trunk of your car but it is not going on the spot. It is my job to call fouls on you when I'm in the chair and I will do my job.

Often the shooter isn't aware of the foul that has been committed.

And visa versa;He may be watching the Object ball to see if it hit a rail and it doesn't but the cue ball did. He calls a foul on himself and it is a wrong call.

Most players will call the obvious fouls because they think they are suppose to. In the rules, the non-shooter is suppose to make the calls.

Gambling seriously or with strangers aside, if I was playing a longtime opponent who I knew well or cheaply with good acquaintances I would and have called a foul on myself and spotted a ball up. Usually what would follow is an explanation to my opponent for the spotted ball. Nobody yet has refused me spotting a ball up.

Dennis

[John Brumback]

First things first. Your opp should never ever leave the table Unless It's his shot.( gambling or tourny) Most big tournys, the director will MAKE you go ahead and shoot while He's gone( If It's your shot) to the bathrrom or smoking or whatever.I have had that happen quite a few times. Here's alittle story that happened to me one time...I'm playing this punk and he doesn't know the rules.(I don't know, he must have missed the players meeting or something like that) well he thinks he going to pull some ole stall move and goes to the bathroom while It's my shot.He didn't know (but I did) that I could go ahead and shoot. As soon as he walked away I ran to the director and said can you come over here and rack these balls for me? He said sure thing! We need to keep this tourny moving. This was a 9 ball tourny race to 7.
I think It was like 2 to 2 when he left the table but when he got back, you should have seen the look on his face when he looked up at the score and I was on the hill.LOL It was PRICELESS!!!

I don't know how many of you have played with the real pros or not,But you better not be wating around for them to call fouls on themselves. I grew up playing with all the pros that are around my age and older.(Most all of them)
Let me tell ya...I learned the hard way Is all I'm going to say.

Now I didn't say that If I fudge the cueball first and then go ahead and shoot and hope I don't get caught. To me that Is not even close to what I started with this thread. Just to be clear about this I would never ever cheat. But what I'm talking about Is not about cheating. Thanks,John B.

[Cowboy Dennis]

How many players call a foul here? Literally, do you expect a player to leave the table, wait for opponent to select a shot, interrupt and say "Let me see if it is frozen" Here? HERE?

CueTable Help

A ref catches this. A player will not 99 percent of the time - he just sees a straight down the rail shot, no threat of a foul , he is just hoping it misses. But Now, You would be STRAIGHT IN on game ball. Refs are trained. Players are not, for this type of situation.

A player needs to be able to relax and focus on HIS inning at the table. That is the perk of ANY professional sporting event. There are literally dozens more of overlooked situations, a hand full of which can slip by a top professional.

But now be reasonalbe and HONEST...would you know to be on your toes for a potential foul waiting for this shot - PROBABLY not. And this is how we judge PROFESSIONAL EVENTS!!!!

NFS,

Almost without exception, any player that I've ever gambled with would call the 1 ball frozen before he sat down. If he didn't and I executed the shot the way you've shown it would not be a foul because the ball was not called frozen and confirmed by me as such. In order for a ball to be considered frozen it must be called frozen by your opponent and confirmed by you. The 1 ball is not frozen until both players agree it is frozen.

Dennis

[Cowboy Dennis]

First things first. Your opp should never ever leave the table Unless It's his shot.( gambling or tourny) Most big tournys, the director will MAKE you go ahead and shoot while He's gone( If It's your shot) to the bathrrom or smoking or whatever.I have had that happen quite a few times. Here's alittle story that happened to me one time...I'm playing this punk and he doesn't know the rules.(I don't know, he must have missed the players meeting or something like that) well he thinks he going to pull some ole stall move and goes to the bathroom while It's my shot.He didn't know (but I did) that I could go ahead and shoot. As soon as he walked away I ran to the director and said can you come over here and rack these balls for me? He said sure thing! We need to keep this tourny moving. This was a 9 ball tourny race to 7.
I think It was like 2 to 2 when he left the table but when he got back, you should have seen the look on his face when he looked up at the score and I was on the hill.LOL It was PRICELESS!!!

I don't know how many of you have played with the real pros or not,But you better not be wating around for them to call fouls on themselves. I grew up playing with all the pros that are around my age and older.(Most all of them)
Let me tell ya...I learned the hard way Is all I'm going to say.

Now I didn't say that If I fudge the cueball first and then go ahead and shoot and hope I don't get caught. To me that Is not even close to what I started with this thread. Just to be clear about this I would never ever cheat. But what I'm talking about Is not about cheating. Thanks,John B.

John, now you're posting at the same exact minute as me? People will talk .

Dennis

[John Brumback]

NFS,

Almost without exception, any player that I've ever gambled with would call the 1 ball frozen before he sat down. If he didn't and I executed the shot the way you've shown it would not be a foul because the ball was not called frozen and confirmed by me as such. In order for a ball to be considered frozen it must be called frozen by your opponent and confirmed by you. The 1 ball is not frozen until both players agree it is frozen.

Dennis

Yes!! you are very correct again!! John B.

[gulfportdoc]

This might be a dumb ? or It might have been gone over,But anyway....
What if your opp Is not paying attention and you don't hit a rail after contact,
do you call It on yourself or not? I have wondered about this for a long time.
Thanks,John B.

Well, a foul is supposed to be called. A foul is a foul, whether or not it's seen by the opponent. Many guys will not call a foul on themselves, and I can certainly see why they wouldn't, especially if there is money on the line.

However, not admitting to a foul will affect some guys pyschologically. In my case it seems as though every time I've not called a foul on myself when I know it was a foul, it seems to have risen up and bit me on the backside later.

I don't know whether it's guilt or "karma", but some guys will end up paying the price. So I think that it depends upon a guy's character and state of mind.

Doc

[John Brumback]

John, now you're posting at the same exact minute as me? People will talk .

Dennis

I do not care.I really like how you think. I'm gonna be riding your coat tail
all the way through this.Thanks ole buddy,hehehehe John B.

[John Brumback]

[QUOTE=Artie Bodendorfer]

Sappo,It's not about "getting away with It" And I have alot of (Integrity)
It's not cheating or anything thing close to that. I'm sorry you feel that way. John B.[/QUOTE

Your playing too win. Not to get the nicest guy off the year award. People loose all the time because they make mistakes.

If a player is not watching and something happines its not Johns faulte or responsability too tell the player anything. Its the players responsability too watch the game.

And if he cant do that he souldnt be playing. Ansking someone else to do hid responsability too help him win. Its not Johs fault.

But the other players. For nor doing what he is supoose too do. I guess if you have a choice your life or someone elses life.

You shoild die for him for integraty. Even if it was your faulte in the accedent.

In the real world we are responsable for our mistakes. And so is the other person. And the responsability is too look out for ourselves.

And if a person sleeps a mistake that you made but it was his responsability. To call it and see it. And thier are people who loose thier money.

Because they are fools waiting to get beat. Thier are a millions off them in the Casinos every day.

And playing pool with some one you can beat fof 10 thousand you should have integraty and not beat him. Because he has no chance too win.

Itegraty is one thing being a fool is another. And a fool and his money soon depart.

And their are millions off fools getting taken every day. Look at the car salesman. New and used. How mant people loose every day that has no chance too win.

Look at Rosse he never won. After 15 million dollaers. Where is the integraty. And a person sleeps a scratch. Its not on John its on the other player.

One more just too make this clear. You play gin rummy and you discard his gin card. He doesnt pick it up and it was his gin card. Should you tell him.

You bet a sports bet in the casino after your team wins the game. You go to collect youre money. And the teller tells you thats the loosing team on your ticket.

You loose. Not doing what is your responsability in a game is all on you not the player. Who got away with the scratch. Its got nothing too do with integraty.


And John said it real nice Im sorry you feel that way. I would have told you you deserve it and hope you learned something from it.

Pay attention to the game and the stupitity wont show up. Thier are no excuses you either watch the game.

And see what is going on. Or its simple if you cant protect yourself ion a game. Why are you playing .

You have no buisness gambling or playing in a tournement. If you dont no the rules or protect whats your responsability too do.

Maybe U should tell you youre shooting in my pocket too. Its up too the player. Too watch the game and if a rule is brocken.

Tell the player what he did. And he pays for his mistake.

But you want me to rat on myself. And call it integraty. I call that a Idiote. Too rat on youreself.

John has lots off integraty. In fact that might be his weakness being too nice.

I say it just the way it is. If a sucker wants too get beat then so be it.

He has a choice to play or not too play. He has a choice too call the foul or not too call it.

THe mistake was made by the other person not calling the foul. John didnt do anything out off line.

If the other player would have called a foul . John would have spotted a
ball. But the player didnt do what he was supose too.

Thats the other players faulte not Johns And you are putting the blame on the wrong person.

Put it on the idiote that deserves it. Not on someone that didnt do anything. Nothing in the rule book says you have too help your oponent with the rules.

This isnt a nice guys contest. Thie is playing too win. And you watch the game and the rules.

And its your responsability too call a foul. Not your opponent calling a foul on himself.

Artie That Is one of THE best posts I have read of yours ..so far.John B.

[gulfportdoc]

So - with the questions about 'snooze you loose' - or if you had a legitimate reason for not having your eyes on the table.

Do you guys think we should have a ref on the final table? Who would rule on all fouls made?

Would this be a good addition and on which matches should a ref be present.

We cannot have a ref on every table and every shot - but we can on so many of the final matches.

Your thoughts???

mark Griffin
(markg@playcsipool.com)
702-719-7665 office

There didn't seem to be many problems with not having a referee at the vast majority of 1P matches at the DCC, so a referee at each match would not only be impossible, but it would be unnecessary at the US Open 1P.

Also, if the final matches will be streamed or taped, that's going to make it even more unlikely that a player would cheat. I'd recommend having a ref at the final four matches, and, as usual, have refs available for calls when requested by the players in the other matches.

Doc

[bstroud]

I have always called a foul on myself even if my opponent doesn't see it. It doesn't matter how much you are playing for. It is just the right thing to do.

What if your opponent went to the rest room and told you to keep on shooting and you missed. Would you just keep on shooting? It's the same thing.

Winning by cheating isn't winning at all. How could you stand yourself?


Bill Stroud

[John Brumback]

Let me try to make this a little more clear. I didn't say anything about stealing balls or fouling the cueball or cheating or going to the bathroom while It's my opp shot or dropping things on the floor or lets see....what else am I'm leaving out? What are you going to do If say you fram In to like 5 or 6 balls but your not real sure If anything made It to the rail or not.What are you going to say...? Well I'm not sure If anything hit the rail or not maybe
I need to spot one up cause I'm not real sure If anything hit a rail after I made contact?? Oh sure. There Is only one way to play.Have a ref every single time you play. Like I said before...You better not wait for ANY and that means ALL PROS to call a foul on themselves. I can't think of one that would.
Is that not a good example? I'm talking about pros, not amatures who play jolly pool. John B.

[John Brumback]

Well, a foul is supposed to be called. A foul is a foul, whether or not it's seen by the opponent. Many guys will not call a foul on themselves, and I can certainly see why they wouldn't, especially if there is money on the line.

However, not admitting to a foul will affect some guys pyschologically. In my case it seems as though every time I've not called a foul on myself when I know it was a foul, it seems to have risen up and bit me on the backside later.

I don't know whether it's guilt or "karma", but some guys will end up paying the price. So I think that it depends upon a guy's character and state of mind.

Doc

Hey there Doc. Whenever I'm playing It's going to be for some kind of $.
I don't play Jolly pool. If I call a foul on myself I can't make a ball after that cause I feel like a big ole sucker and I don't like that feeling. On top of that,
I do not cheat,never have never will. John B.

[sappo]

Last Post On The Subject

John, I was under the impression that if a player fouled it was his duty to alert his opponent to the foul. If that is the case and it is truely the other players responsibility to see and call the foul then there is nothing wrong with the shooting player not to call the foul.

Since im not a big gambler and since im not a big tournament player, however, even if its not my responsibility to call a foul on myself, i will continue to call it. However if thats not what the rules say then i no longer would frown on a player not calling a foul on himself.

This is my last post on this subject.

I wish you the best at Vegas. Ill be sure to talk to you there. keith