Scott/efren again

[jtompilot]

i wont belaber this thread much longer because that shot was the last efren took in that game.........
he didnt play off the 3 but instead 2 railed the 11??
you could tell he was playing all cue ball as the cue ball drew straight bakck behind the wall
the camera angle obscured the view but eveidently the 11 comboed in a ball and scott was in perfect position to run out
[ATTACH]5691[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]5692[/ATTACH]

A fine example of why the QB should have replaced the 5 ball with the 5 tying up the 10.

[One Pocket Ghost]

Agree with your logic? are you still high on the juju? - it wasn't logic, it was illogic...

What's so illogical about leaving a shot that carries a 99% make percentage, and a 1% chance of getting position? Just maybe he'll shoot it and settle for the obvious...no, he won't.....


99% - I don't think so...He'll be shooting off the rail - with at least fairly tight pockets - and if the table rolls off in the slightest he misses...I've seen this scenario 1,000,000 times, like you have - nobody ever shoots it - not even Corey, Rafael, or Tony Chohan would shoot it.....


Sorry your sick with the flu, get yourself a cup of soup.

Thanks, I did.


Dr Bill

- Ghst



....

[One Pocket Ghost]

Really don't know what he was thinking about choosing that shot. As you can plainly see Frost now has taken control of this position based on the shot Reyes just shot.

Careful there - you're criticizing Efren - you know that's not allowed - people will hate on you for that...



Maybe the Ghost can coach Reyes.


Most intelligent thing you've said all week.....

Dr. Bill

- Ghost


....

[wincardona]

- Ghost
Originally Posted by wincardona *
Really don't know what he was thinking about choosing that shot. As you can plainly see Frost now has taken control of this position based on the shot Reyes just shot.
Careful there - you're criticizing Efren - you know that's not allowed - people will hate on you for that...

Maybe the Ghost can coach Reyes.

Most intelligent thing you've said all week.....

....

I always like to close a thread by saying something intelligent.


You're wrong again


Dr. Bill

[One Pocket Ghost]

I always like to close a thread by saying something intelligent.


Your wrong again


Dr. Bill

Pretty damn funny, to say the least, when somebody says they like to make a final statement by saying something intelligent, then in that final sentence where they feebly tried to say you're wrong - they can't spell the word you're......

- Ghst

[sappo]

Forgive me for coming in late, I just read this entire thread and I want to say that I feel Efrin should have kicked 2 rails softly into the 10 ball when he was confronted with the shot in post #54. Billy I know you feel this was a difficult/delicate shot but I disagree. I feel this would have been an easy shot for the worlds greatest player and I believe Efrin missed a good shot. Keith

[timdog24]

Forgive me for coming in late, I just read this entire thread and I want to say that I feel Efrin should have kicked 2 rails softly into the 10 ball when he was confronted with the shot in post #54. Billy I know you feel this was a difficult/delicate shot but I disagree. I feel this would have been an easy shot for the worlds greatest player and I believe Efrin missed a good shot. Keith

I liked that shot too at first Sappo. Like you, I don't think it would be that difficult for Efren to execute. But, even if hit well, Scott will just come off the 3 ball and stick 'em behind those three balls. And that's basically gin.

The two-rail kick at the 8/5 is probably the best shot.

Ghost, I thought about your shot, off the 3 with english and spinning back into the 5/8 (I know you hit these well). But, like Billy and jtpilot said, tough to do with the rock on the rail AND that 10 ball is a big ball.
A kicking fool like you shoulda been drooling to show off your billiard knowledge here

Anything would've been better than what Efren did though.

[wincardona]

I liked that shot too at first Sappo. Like you, I don't think it would be that difficult for Efren to execute. But, even if hit well, Scott will just come off the 3 ball and stick 'em behind those three balls. And that's basically gin.

The two-rail kick at the 8/5 is probably the best shot.

Ghost, I thought about your shot, off the 3 with english and spinning back into the 5/8 (I know you hit these well). But, like Billy and jtpilot said, tough to do with the rock on the rail AND that 10 ball is a big ball.
A kicking fool like you shoulda been drooling to show off your billiard knowledge here

Anything would've been better than what Efren did though.

Timdog, the kick on the 10 ball is a difficult kick when you consider the distance the 10 is from the rail. (1-1/2") Not only that you must also consider the position of the cue ball resting close to the long cushion (clumsy position)more difficult to strike and judge. But I agree that if Reyes was accurate with the kick, Frost would put him behind the balls, true. But keep in mind that the 10 ball will now be positioned in an easier spot to defend against, making it a fair trade off. The position of the 10 ball was Frost's strength, and if moved to, or away from the position it's now in, Frost's position would be weakened considerably.

The option that Reyes chose, (bad option) suggested that he didn't like the kick. Neither would I. The difference in 1-1/2" and 2-1/2" from the rail is huge when kicking this kind of shot, even 1-1/2 to 2" could be a reason to kick, or not to kick.

Dr. Bill

[tylerdurden]

Timdog, the kick on the 10 ball is a difficult kick when you consider the distance the 10 is from the rail. (1-1/2") Not only that you must also consider the position of the cue ball resting close to the long cushion (clumsy position)more difficult to strike and judge. But I agree that if Reyes was accurate with the kick, Frost would put him behind the balls, true. But keep in mind that the 10 ball will now be positioned in an easier spot to defend against, making it a fair trade off. The position of the 10 ball was Frost's strength, and if moved to, or away from the position it's now in, Frost's position would be weakened considerably.

The option that Reyes chose, (bad option) suggested that he didn't like the kick. Neither would I. The difference in 1-1/2" and 2-1/2" from the rail is huge when kicking this kind of shot, even 1-1/2 to 2" could be a reason to kick, or not to kick.

Dr. Bill

Well, that makes 2 at least (you and reyes), that is strong evidence against that kick. I like that kick, and I still like it. The cb is lying in an almost ideal position (for me anyway) to judge that kick, being almost the mirror image of the ob. I'm not saying i'd hit it perfect every time, but i like it. Look at it this way, not sure how that table was playing, but on most tables you simply hit the middle of the end rail with center ball and the cb will be where it is at now but on the other side of the table. How does that look? That shot at a slow pace tends to come very long off that second rail too, which helps keep it on the left side of the 10.

I'll also note, if you hit that kick real bad (if you get a short kick off the end rail), you have the chance to make the 10 -- there is definitely a little hidden error there, however slight.

Anyway, Efren didn't choose it, but considering the shot he DID choose, i'm not sure that is good evidence against the kick in this case. But the Dr. Bill evidence is always compelling.

Larry, can you mention is words what Efren did after Scott put him behind the 8 in that picture. I was thinking kick at that ball uptable (if he could not see it), I wondered if he did that, if you know.

[androd]

Larry, can you mention is words what Efren did after Scott put him behind the 8 in that picture. I was thinking kick at that ball uptable (if he could not see it), I wondered if he did that, if you know.

i wont belabor this thread much longer because that shot was the last Efren took in that game.........
he didn't play off the 3 but instead 2 railed the 11??
you could tell he was playing all cue ball as the cue ball drew straight back behind the wall
the camera angle obscured the view but evidently the 11 combo'ed in a ball and Scott was in perfect position to run out
Attachment 5691

If this is what you're asking.?
Rod.

[stevelomako]

I thought about something with this match.

Is this the one they played in Phoenix where they were both paid to play (exhibition match) and no one got extra for winning?


I'm not trying to take away anything from either player but I was told that neither player was super serious in shot selections, that they were (Scott always is anyway) being mainly offensive minded first.

If you were going to watch or pay to watch these two play you'd want to see them trying to run out such as Scott did after Efrens' well thought out safe, not strangle each other like Artie would do.

That would help explain a little in why some shots weren't taken (such as safety's and intenionals) as to drag the game and match out long.



So that got me thinking:

It would be interesting to set up something at DCC or Tunica or Vegas and have it taped where there's a table lay-out such as this one (do one pocket and banks) and a few players (such as Freddie, Artie, Dr. Bill, Efren, Scott, Brumback etc.) come in, one at a time to look over the situation then choose and explain their shot. Like on here but it's better in real time at a real table with real players.

Not to see who's right or wrong but to show the different options that players could have.

I think that would be a decent instructional tool for people, looking into the thinking of alot of great players.

[wincardona]

Pretty damn funny, to say the least, when somebody says they like to make a final statement by saying something intelligent, then in that final sentence where they feebly tried to say you're wrong - they can't spell the word you're......

- Ghst

You're right, but I figured out where you would be at your best, in terms of coaching? You would be an excellent spelling coach. I'll phone Artie and let him know you're available for the position. If that's ok with you.

Dr. Bill

[wincardona]

I thought about something with this match.

Is this the one they played in Phoenix where they were both paid to play (exhibition match) and no one got extra for winning?


I'm not trying to take away anything from either player but I was told that neither player was super serious in shot selections, that they were (Scott always is anyway) being mainly offensive minded first.

If you were going to watch or pay to watch these two play you'd want to see them trying to run out such as Scott did after Efrens' well thought out safe, not strangle each other like Artie would do.

That would help explain a little in why some shots weren't taken (such as safety's and intenionals) as to drag the game and match out long.



So that got me thinking:

It would be interesting to set up something at DCC or Tunica or Vegas and have it taped where there's a table lay-out such as this one (do one pocket and banks) and a few players (such as Freddie, Artie, Dr. Bill, Efren, Scott, Brumback etc.) come in, one at a time to look over the situation then choose and explain their shot. Like on here but it's better in real time at a real table with real players.

Not to see who's right or wrong but to show the different options that players could have.

I think that would be a decent instructional tool for people, looking into the thinking of alot of great players.

Funny you mentioned that, that's what I have been doing for over 30 years doing commentary. I've sat opposite of a lot of the worlds greatest players doing commentary, and yes that helped me as well as others , in terms of improving our game from a thinking standpoint.

Dr. Bill

[One Pocket Ghost]

You're right, but I figured out where you would be at your best, in terms of coaching? You would be an excellent spelling coach. I'll phone Artie and let him know you're available for the position. If that's ok with you.
Dr. Bill

It's ok with me - but make sure and tell him that he needs so much work that my price would have to be the same as he wants for giving One Pocket lessons - $30,000.........

- Ghost

PS, And by the way Witch Doctor Billy...I can't shake this flu - ya think maybe you could send me one of your exotic, never fails, curative potions, made of crushed bat wings, or ground up Malaysian centipedes, or the like...

[wincardona]

Well, that makes 2 at least (you and reyes), that is strong evidence against that kick. I like that kick, and I still like it. The cb is lying in an almost ideal position (for me anyway) to judge that kick, being almost the mirror image of the ob. I'm not saying i'd hit it perfect every time, but i like it. Look at it this way, not sure how that table was playing, but on most tables you simply hit the middle of the end rail with center ball and the cb will be where it is at now but on the other side of the table. How does that look? That shot at a slow pace tends to come very long off that second rail too, which helps keep it on the left side of the 10.

I'll also note, if you hit that kick real bad (if you get a short kick off the end rail), you have the chance to make the 10 -- there is definitely a little hidden error there, however slight.

Anyway, Efren didn't choose it, but considering the shot he DID choose, i'm not sure that is good evidence against the kick in this case. But the Dr. Bill evidence is always compelling.

Larry, can you mention is words what Efren did after Scott put him behind the 8 in that picture. I was thinking kick at that ball uptable (if he could not see it), I wondered if he did that, if you know.

Timdog, being the stickler that I am I had to go to the table to experiment with this kick, and it is actually a worse kick then I originally thought it was. Both the 10 ball and the cue ball are only 6" from the pocket mirroring one another. From this position you also have bridging problems, because of the pocket. I shot this shot 6 times and was only successful once with the kick. I for certain wouldn't shoot this shot in a game, and I definitely wouldn't shoot it in a situation like this one.

Another thing of most importance when shooting shots of this kind (shots that you jeopardize the game with but can't win the game with)you must avoid shooting these types of shots at all cost, especially if they carry less then an 80% success rate, unless your forced to shoot them.

Dr. Bill