WWYD? - Bernie vs Darren

[tylerdurden]

He took a foul back is what he did and spotted a ball.

Which definitely isn't a bad shot. I know others disagree

[sappo]

Lenny, did Bernie go on to win that game. keith

[Fast Lenny]

Lenny, did Bernie go on to win that game. keith

No he did not much to my surprise.

[backplaying]

What did he accomplish by taking a foul, compared to banking the ball on the one in his pocket for the win?

[One Pocket Ghost]

No he did not much to my surprise.

Lenny....What shot did Darren shoot when he finally had to shoot from that spot?

- Ghost

[tylerdurden]

Lenny....What shot did Darren shoot when he finally had to shoot from that spot?

- Ghost

I'd really like to know too.

It really isn't that surprising to hear he lost because even the 8 is really in play. All the balls but 2 are out right now for DA. Banking that ball into the hanger you also have a great chance to lose imo. The one way you dont have a good chance to lose, and have a great chance to win is the kick.

If you hate the kick, I like the scratch, but the problem is scratching and losing that opportunity to get in the one hole against a ball runner is just such a bad move. I dare anybody to come up with some scenario where bernie would lose here on the kick. The whif on the kick just isn't an option in my mind, i mean if you can't hit that ball 1 rail give up pool You are gonna at LEAST hit it.

Anyway... i promised i would stop taking about that kick

[timdog24]

I'd really like to know too.

It really isn't that surprising to hear he lost because even the 8 is really in play. All the balls but 2 are out right now for DA. Banking that ball into the hanger you also have a great chance to lose imo. The one way you dont have a good chance to lose, and have a great chance to win is the kick.

If you hate the kick, I like the scratch, but the problem is scratching and losing that opportunity to get in the one hole against a ball runner is just such a bad move. I dare anybody to come up with some scenario where bernie would lose here on the kick. The whif on the kick just isn't an option in my mind, i mean if you can't hit that ball 1 rail give up pool You are gonna at LEAST hit it.

Anyway... i promised i would stop taking about that kick

How do you have "a great chance to lose" banking that stripe into the ball hanging in your pocket-if you need 2?? What is Appleton going to do from the back rail, a ball in the jaws of your hole, and now the stripe you just banked should be also near your pocket? The best he can do is make it for you. So why would you shoot an unnatural kick with the cue ball hanging in the jaws? Appleton is going to have to give it to you next inning, as long as you bank the stripe ball anywhere near your hole.
Senor described the shot on the 1st page.

[Dudley]

I'd really like to know too.

It really isn't that surprising to hear he lost because even the 8 is really in play. All the balls but 2 are out right now for DA. Banking that ball into the hanger you also have a great chance to lose imo. The one way you dont have a good chance to lose, and have a great chance to win is the kick.

If you hate the kick, I like the scratch, but the problem is scratching and losing that opportunity to get in the one hole against a ball runner is just such a bad move. I dare anybody to come up with some scenario where bernie would lose here on the kick. The whif on the kick just isn't an option in my mind, i mean if you can't hit that ball 1 rail give up pool You are gonna at LEAST hit it.

Anyway... i promised i would stop taking about that kick

The thing about your kick that you like so much is that if you don't hit it you lose a ball. A ball that you are pretty much guaranteed to get anyway. Why take a risk at losing it? By taking a shot at the bank on the 12 at least you have a shot to win the game in this inning and no danger of going negative.

What percentage do you have to be able to make this kick to make it worthwhile? It would have to be very very high to be justifiable... and after you make it there is no follow up offensive shot.

It might be workable for you but I can't see myself shooting it.

Dud

[Frank Almanza]

I was there and if I remember correctly there was not a straight kick at his hanging ball. I believe he would have had to spin the cue ball to make the ball, which is why he took the foul. I think he did the correct thing in taking the foul.

[newfosgatesucks]

At some point in my history I might have banked the 3 to my hole and left him on the end rail. That point may be now if you can get a good hit on it....

[tylerdurden]

How do you have "a great chance to lose" banking that stripe into the ball hanging in your pocket-if you need 2?? What is Appleton going to do from the back rail, a ball in the jaws of your hole, and now the stripe you just banked should be also near your pocket? The best he can do is make it for you. So why would you shoot an unnatural kick with the cue ball hanging in the jaws? Appleton is going to have to give it to you next inning, as long as you bank the stripe ball anywhere near your hole.
Senor described the shot on the 1st page.

See post 11. And mind you probably wont freeze him to the rail or anything, right? Did DA end up getting into those balls off the 3?? I'd be curious to know. I guess the game took a different turn so it is moot. Look where you are putting the cb if you kick vs the bank and you have the lead. And again, this is all in previous posts but i think the problem is we dont play that kick enough... ask a billiard player how many time he will hit that ball going 1 rail. I mean that is a gigantic ball. Anyway.. it is all water under the proverbial bridge.

[tylerdurden]

The thing about your kick that you like so much is that if you don't hit it you lose a ball. A ball that you are pretty much guaranteed to get anyway. Why take a risk at losing it? By taking a shot at the bank on the 12 at least you have a shot to win the game in this inning and no danger of going negative.

What percentage do you have to be able to make this kick to make it worthwhile? It would have to be very very high to be justifiable... and after you make it there is no follow up offensive shot.

It might be workable for you but I can't see myself shooting it.

Dud

I have played champs before. Put them on the end rail with that three there with his back to the wall and see what happens out of 10 tries. These guys that shoot so straight know better, they like to take their shot at the game, not kick the ball out of bernies hole or make it for him (like us). They just dont think like that because they simply knock shots like that 3 in. And to answer your question even if I missed it i think that is the best area for the cb with the lead. But id never miss that, really, i feel like id at least graze it or give up pool. Look at where that ball is... hit it TERRIBLE and miss it short you catch the point you get the hit.. on the long side youd have to hit above the diamond to miss that kick. Pool is mostly about having confidence in accuracy... i mean cmon guys, that is a BIG area

After you knock that kick in the game is over just knock a couple uptable -- done.

I'll be curious to see how he actually did lose anyway.

[Dudley]

I have played champs before. Put them on the end rail with that three there with his back to the wall and see what happens out of 10 tries. These guys that shoot so straight know better, they like to take their shot at the game, not kick the ball out of bernies hole or make it for him (like us). They just dont think like that because they simply knock shots like that 3 in. And to answer your question even if I missed it i think that is the best area for the cb with the lead. But id never miss that, really, i feel like id at least graze it or give up pool. Look at where that ball is... hit it TERRIBLE and miss it short you catch the point you get the hit.. on the long side youd have to hit above the diamond to miss that kick. Pool is mostly about having confidence in accuracy... i mean cmon guys, that is a BIG area

After you knock that kick in the game is over just knock a couple uptable -- done.

I'll be curious to see how he actually did lose anyway.

I don't think it's that simple... knock a few up table and the game is over. With the balls up table It can be fairly common to make a comeback.
however--> that's not the point in this situation for me.

Champ or no Champ if they shoot the 3 with two balls in front of my hole while frozen to the rail with the score being what it is I think they are trying to lose. No reward for a low percentage shot.

But I do understand your point... You think the kick is a hanger and would have no problem deciding to shoot it.

I personally don't think the kick is worth the risk of losing a ball. Even if it was an 85% shot.

The 13 is already in your hole and if you bank the 12 ball anywhere on your side of the table it can make the situation difficult for your opponent to respond to. --> especially if you can get them lined up with the 12 on the 13.

Jmho though,

Dud

[tylerdurden]

I don't think it's that simple... knock a few up table and the game is over. With the balls up table It can be fairly common to make a comeback.
however--> that's not the point in this situation for me.

Champ or no Champ if they shoot the 3 with two balls in front of my hole while frozen to the rail with the score being what it is I think they are trying to lose. No reward for a low percentage shot.

But I do understand your point... You think the kick is a hanger and would have no problem deciding to shoot it.

I personally don't think the kick is worth the risk of losing a ball. Even if it was an 85% shot.

The 13 is already in your hole and if you bank the 12 ball anywhere on your side of the table it can make the situation difficult for your opponent to respond to. --> especially if you can get them lined up with the 12 on the 13.

Jmho though,

Dud

I understand you too, but as those old, wise sayings go: "the last place you want to fight your opponent is with his back against a wall with no other escape (especially when he shoots as straight as DA)." DA will be taking a good look at that 3, I can guarantee that. One of the balls in "front of your hole" is going to be like a hanger bank that you are putting there. It is just a different game with those guys -- which incidentally is where I think all the "he shoots the wrong shots, yet he always wins" sentiments were born. Anyway.

[Jimmy B]

I understand you too, but as those old, wise sayings go: "the last place you want to fight your opponent is with his back against a wall with no other escape (especially when he shoots as straight as DA)." DA will be taking a good look at that 3, I can guarantee that. One of the balls in "front of your hole" is going to be like a hanger bank that you are putting there. It is just a different game with those guys -- which incidentally is where I think all the "he shoots the wrong shots, yet he always wins" sentiments were born. Anyway.

You're not going to let it go are you?? If you're guts tells you to kick, then by all means, Kick like a mule. Just kick em in the ass, as we use to say. Usually it was when we were going to take another pill, we would say " Imona kick me anothern in, rat now......