G. Mathews vs. J. Parica 1995 Roanoke

[Cowboy Dennis]

There are other ways for the shot to succeed but this was not it. If the 1 ball hung, it would have been a gravy train for Grady.

With all those balls in front of Grady's pocket, it was already a gravy train and anybody who elects to try and play conservative shots to wiggle out is sure to get run over by that train anyway.

Beard

Just to allay your fears, after Parica made the 1 ball he ran three more balls and missed a shot leaving Mathews this layout. He got 2 from here.

 

[NH Steve]

Just to allay your fears, after Parica made the 1 ball he ran three more balls and missed a shot leaving Mathews this layout. He got 2 from here.

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Maybe so, but when I look at how the balls lie after Parica's nice carom of the 1-ball -- I would surely much rather be shooting to Grady's pocket than I would at Parica's (should the 1-ball have been missed).

 

[fred bentivegna]

Maybe so, but when I look at how the balls lie after Parica's nice carom of the 1-ball -- I would surely much rather be shooting to Grady's pocket than I would at Parica's (should the 1-ball have been missed).

Steve, do I need a diamond tipped drill to penetrate....:frus

Beard

You know I actually get paid to tell people what I have been releasing for free here.

 

[jtompilot]

With all those balls in front of Grady's pocket, it was already a gravy train and anybody who elects to try and play conservative shots to wiggle out is sure to get run over by that train anyway.

Beard

Beard I do understand that sometimes you just have to run with it. My luck the 1 ball would have been fools gold.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Beard I do understand that sometimes you just have to run with it. My luck the 1 ball would have been fools gold.

That is the exact same kind of thinking that you must learn to shuck and put out of your mind if you want to be successful in 1pkt.

Beard

positive visualization is a big part of pool.

 

[NH Steve]

Steve, do I need a diamond tipped drill to penetrate....:frus

Beard

You know I actually get paid to tell people what I have been releasing for free here.

I get your concept just fine Freddy, and I am sure many others do, and we all appreciate it. The only disagreement we have here is that as I personally viewed the table, without someone else pointing out the 1-5 carom shot, would probably not have seen Parica's shot as a viable option in this situation -- for me, with my particular skill set.

My reluctance here has nothing to do with not liking and agreeing with your concept -- but as I understand it, it's a concept, not a specific shot imperative. I just did not see this particular shot and even if I did, I would not have liked my own odds of shooting it. I am pretty certain that I would have either caromed off the 8-ball into the back side of the 4 or shot the three railer on the 2-ball -- presuming in real life they looked as workable as they look on screen. I would have shot one of those because I LIKED THEM -- not because I was desperately looking for a bail out shot.

If that means I didn't get the concept, I guess I'll still lose some games I *might* have won as a result

 

[fred bentivegna]

I get your concept just fine Freddy, and I am sure many others do, and we all appreciate it. The only disagreement we have here is that as I personally viewed the table, without someone else pointing out the 1-5 carom shot, would probably not have seen Parica's shot as a viable option in this situation -- for me, with my particular skill set.

My reluctance here has nothing to do with not liking and agreeing with your concept -- but as I understand it, it's a concept, not a specific shot imperative. I just did not see this particular shot and even if I did, I would not have liked my own odds of shooting it. I am pretty certain that I would have either caromed off the 8-ball into the back side of the 4 or shot the three railer on the 2-ball -- presuming in real life they looked as workable as they look on screen. I would have shot one of those because I LIKED THEM -- not because I was desperately looking for a bail out shot.

If that means I didn't get the concept, I guess I'll still lose some games I *might* have won as a result

I'll say again. I have considered your skill set when I make my recommendation. For this to work you must "believe."
Also, do you think it would be impossible to cut the 1 ball in and send the cue ball to scatter the balls by Gradys pocket? If you are looking for an option where the percentages are on your side -- there aint one.
When you understand that whatever you do you will be taking the worst of it, that might make it a little easier.
The closest thing would be the 2 ball three rails, but the cue ball is not in a good enough place to do that.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Beard

You know I actually get paid to tell people what I have been releasing for free here.

So do I...:heh...

That is the exact same kind of thinking that you must learn to shuck and put out of your mind if you want to be successful in 1pkt.

Beard

positive visualization is a big part of pool. <------ What you said here Freddy, and that I deservedly enlarged and bolded, is probably more important advice than all of the shot-choice threads posted on this site combined.......

- Ghost

 

[wincardona]

Maybe so, but when I look at how the balls lie after Parica's nice carom of the 1-ball -- I would surely much rather be shooting to Grady's pocket than I would at Parica's (should the 1-ball have been missed).

Steve, Parica made the 1 ball and was rewarded with a shot, plus he has for the most part worked his way out of a horrible situation where the players that would of chosen another option would of still been in.

You said that you would of rather had Grady's pocket, the way the balls lay if Parica would of missed. But if Parica would of missed, maybe the balls would of ended up in a position where Grady might not have a shot, right?

You would be surprised to see the difference in how balls spread from one shot to another, when the shot moves 5 and 6 balls. It would be foolish to judge the outcome of a shot where 5 and 6 balls are moved as a bad choice of shots because that one particular time the shooter would of sold out. The slightest difference in the hit can produce a big difference in the ending position of the balls when you move this many balls. Especially when the balls are in close proximity to one another.

Dr. Bill

 

[wincardona]

I get your concept just fine Freddy, and I am sure many others do, and we all appreciate it. The only disagreement we have here is that as I personally viewed the table, without someone else pointing out the 1-5 carom shot, would probably not have seen Parica's shot as a viable option in this situation -- for me, with my particular skill set.

My reluctance here has nothing to do with not liking and agreeing with your concept -- but as I understand it, it's a concept, not a specific shot imperative. I just did not see this particular shot and even if I did, I would not have liked my own odds of shooting it. I am pretty certain that I would have either caromed off the 8-ball into the back side of the 4 or shot the three railer on the 2-ball -- presuming in real life they looked as workable as they look on screen. I would have shot one of those because I LIKED THEM -- not because I was desperately looking for a bail out shot.

If that means I didn't get the concept, I guess I'll still lose some games I *might* have won as a result

Steve, your argument is based on the unknown principle. You would of not shot the carom because you didn't understand the shot. So with this mindset the fear of the shot was based on the fact that you weren't familiar with that type of shot, so you would of passed it, right? Answer this question for me. If you developed the feel for caroms, and this situation arose would you have a different perspective on the situation? I ask this question with the understanding that there weren't any other decent options available, ok?

If you will, allow me to help you understand this concept from a different perspective. Lets say you were familiar with caroms and this situation showed itself, do you think that you would win one out of three games if you shot the carom? That's my guess on how you would fare if you didn't shoot the carom. You would lose 2 out of 3 games. If you think that you could win at least 1 out of 3 games then it's not a bad shot, personally I think you would average more than 1 out of 3 games, providing you shot the shot with confidence that was developed from understanding the shot.

Dr. Bill

 

[SJDinPHX]

You know I actually get paid to tell people what I have been releasing for free here.

So do I.....:heh...

Ghastess

You guy's are simply AMAZING !..Your arms must be stretched 8"-10"...from patting yourselves on the back !
It is also unreal, that you NEVER seem to tire of it !..(unlike the rest of the world) ..:help :help

SuperDuck <--Is sending you each a copy of Peggy's book, (with a forward by the Duck)..Autographed, by both of us, of course..

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[One Pocket Ghost]

You guy's are simply AMAZING !

SuperDuck

Thank you - that's very nice of you to say...


SuperGhost

 

[tylerdurden]

Happy 4th. to you too. But I never said that Parica had a 50% chance of pocketing the 1 ball, what I said that for a player like Parica the success percentage choosing the 1 ball option would be around 50%. Let's not forget that with this shot there are other way's to succeed other than pocketing the 1 ball.

And the answer to your other question is yes, I did pocket the 1 ball carom on my first attempt. And I also agree with what you said about playing a carom off of frozen multiple balls is different than playing a carom off a singular ball. And I also said that it doesn't hurt to familiarize yourself with caroms by practicing them, then if you need to play one off of multiple balls you'll know to hit less of the first ball of the carom.

And about that losing 70% of the time by choosing another option still stands, regardless of how you play it if you don't shoot the 1 ball carom, imo.

It's all about putting the work in to understand as much as you can about the percentages of succeeding with all types of shots, isn't it? After all playing one pocket at some point you will have the option to use that understanding, and then some you haven't learned.

Dr. Bill

Thanks to Billy, Freddy and to all for the responses. It is always amazing to get input like this from you guys, and throw mine in as well and have it analyzed. I can't think of too many things better for one's game, except maybe doing it all on an actual table

 

[fred bentivegna]

You guy's are simply AMAZING !..Your arms must be stretched 8"-10"...from patting yourselves on the back !
It is also unreal, that you NEVER seem to tire of it !..(unlike the rest of the world) ..:help :help

SuperDuck <--Is sending you each a copy of Peggy's book, (with a forward by the Duck)..Autographed, by both of us, of course..

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Ho hum, just another of your "informative" posts in a thread where people are actually learning something. Keep up the good work.

Beard

 

[3RAILKICK]

Thank you gentlemen

Thank you gentlemen

Thanks to Billy, Freddy and to all for the responses. It is always amazing to get input like this from you guys, and throw mine in as well and have it analyzed. I can't think of too many things better for one's game, except maybe doing it all on an actual table

Amen-as a newcomer to the game-I seldom see the right move.

For Freddy, Billy et al-how long did it take for you to 'see' the best shot or move in a game? Does that ability change depending on whether you are in the game or observing/commentating/analyzing?

Did/do you learn the most by losing or winning?

thanks again to the resident experts and others willing to post their opinions for potential dismemberment. Actually, I get the sense that 'schooling' for the most part is good natured, and meant to help. Being asked to defend a move or strategy seems a good learning tool.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Amen-as a newcomer to the game-I seldom see the right move.

For Freddy, Billy et al-how long did it take for you to 'see' the best shot or move in a game? Does that ability change depending on whether you are in the game or observing/commentating/analyzing?

Did/do you learn the most by losing or winning?

thanks again to the resident experts and others willing to post their opinions for potential dismemberment. Actually, I get the sense that 'schooling' for the most part is good natured, and meant to help. Being asked to defend a move or strategy seems a good learning tool.

Looking from the outside in, in the booth, Billy and I never miss a move or a ball -- especially Billy. In virtual pool Dr Bill could spot Efren.

Beard

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Amen-as a newcomer to the game-I seldom see the right move.

For Freddy, Billy et al-how long did it take for you to 'see' the best shot or move in a game? Does that ability change depending on whether you are in the game or observing/commentating/analyzing?

Did/do you learn the most by losing or winning?

thanks again to the resident experts and others willing to post their opinions for potential dismemberment. Actually, I get the sense that 'schooling' for the most part is good natured, and meant to help. Being asked to defend a move or strategy seems a good learning tool.

3RK,

Since the definition of Et Al. is:

et al.
abbreviation for
1. (Physics / General Physics) et alibi
[Latin: and elsewhere]
2. et alii
[Latin: and others]

I'll give my input. As to how long it took me to "see" the "right" shot in a game, I'd say 10 years. In an individual game I'd say I usually knew the "right" shot for me while I was in the chair. I usually knew what I was going to do ( with a few exceptions) before I reached the table for my shot.

P.S. That's a very good question and one of the best ever asked here on this forum.

Dennis

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Looking from the outside in, in the booth, Billy and I never miss a move or a ball -- especially Billy. In virtual pool Dr Bill could spot Efren.

Beard

Freddy,

I've never seen you play except for a match that you or someone posted where the camera was far away from your table and there was no commentary so I can't comment on your "speed" at perceiving, but, I can unequivocally state that BI shoots the same shots that he calls in the booth when others are shooting. Don't think for a moment that I don't notice inconsistencies and call them out when seen. BI shoots what he says you should shoot and he's consistent at it.

P.S. I know you're just slightly jerking BI's chain.

RBL

 

[wincardona]

Amen-as a newcomer to the game-I seldom see the right move.

For Freddy, Billy et al-how long did it take for you to 'see' the best shot or move in a game? ( I'm still working on it... seeing the best shot... but I think i'm clearly getting better) Does that ability change depending on whether you are in the game or observing/commentating/analyzing? (infrequently..never...yes...yes I think)

Did/do you learn the most by losing or winning? ( Any one knows they learn the most from losing, haven't you noticed how much Freddie knows?)

thanks again to the resident experts and others willing to post their opinions for potential dismemberment. Actually, I get the sense that 'schooling' for the most part is good natured, and meant to help. Being asked to defend a move or strategy seems a good learning tool.

The spice of teaching is the "contrarian" with out a doubt. This site is by far the best site ever, on the net or what have you, for learning one pocket, period. But try to understand my way of thinking, you'll greatly benefit by it.

Dr. Bill

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Amen-as a newcomer to the game-I seldom see the right move.

For Freddy, Billy et al - how long did it take for you to 'see' the best shot or move in a game? Does that ability change depending on whether you are in the game or observing/commentating/analyzing?

Some correct, or at least viable, shot choices can be determined from afar - more so in the second half of the game when there are not so many balls on the table, and sightlines are clearer....but a great deal of the time, to fully and accurately be able to analyze and see the best options and best shot - you have to be at the table....the reason being - is that the viability of so many shot choices is dependant on the exact lay of particular balls, with 1/4", 1/8", or 1/16" being the difference between a shot being available, and/or a solid choice, or not.



Did/do you learn the most by losing or winning?

You can learn a lot mentally, emotionally, strategically, and psychologically from losing or winning.....but losing or winning is not the main factor as far as learning the game of One Pocket....no, learning the game of One Pocket to a high degree comes from putting in your time by playing seriously yourself against knowledgable opponents, and also by watching high calibre One Pocket play, in person and by watching dvd's...

...and were talking about doing those two things seriously, studiously, intensely, and with ultimate, unfalterring determination - for ideally - 20-40 years...


thanks again to the resident experts and others willing to post their opinions for potential dismemberment. Actually, I get the sense that 'schooling' for the most part is good natured, and meant to help. Being asked to defend a move or strategy seems a good learning tool.

Your welcome, Ghost