2005 One Pocket HOF call for nominations

[FoxyCoxy]

Lingo

Lingo

How about Hayden Lingo from Oklahoma City? I`ve heard he invented the game of 1P. Logically he should be honored for that if for no other reason.

 

[bjspivey]

COOKIE M / STEVE COOK he was a guy that played his best-always, one of the good-guys!

 

[fred bentivegna]

The dead and undead

The dead and undead

This is getting to be too hard. I keep thinking of more guys that deserve to be in. Earl Heisler from New Orleans, unbeatable on the wet tables. Isadore "Pony" Rosen from Chicago. Big Nose Roberts. Even Joe Procita who tried to spot Rags Fitzpatrick 9 to 8 on a five by ten table! He lost of course. Joe conceded that he had no chance on a 4 1/2 by 9. Maybe we need 2 categories, alive and dead. I think the guys that are alive should get first consideration. No-brainers who are still alive as far as I am concerned, are:

#1 Eugene Clem Metz -- Was even with Eddie Taylor for a long time.
#2 Marshall Squirrell Carpenter -- Big-time, big-money player.
#3 Artie Bodendorfer --his batting average was higher than Ty Cobb's.
#4 Eddie Kelly -- He used to sneer at the balls.
#5 Jose Parica -- Giant heart. Can bet his own money.
#6 Allen Hopkins -- Was #1 for awhile.
#7 Steve Mizerak -- Didnt know the game, but was close to #1 for awhile.
#8 Jimmy Fusco -- Watch him play and learn

This is a listing of who I think could beat who.

Old school pool. Bank on, brother!
the Beard

 

[gulfportdoc]

So, who do you like for this second group of nominees, and why should they join the legends already in the One Pocket Hall of Fame?

"Champagne" Eddie Kelly should be a lock. He played about the same speed and style as Ronnie; he won tournaments; and he was a terror in the back rooms for the cheese.

Doc

 

[Tom]

Such A List !

Such A List !

Virftually every name offered up deserves to be in the Hall, and I especially like Freddy's ability to shorten the list. The biggest problem is deciding who has to wait until next year.

One small correction. Haydon Lingo didn't invent One-Pocket. Apparently that was a guy named, if memory serves, Joe Hill. Lingo and Hubert Cokes were the two "locals" (Cokes lived in KC and OC during the early oil days) who learned the game and spread it among money players when they went east, Cokes back o Evansville, and Lingo on a long road trip all the way to Boston. Cokes got Fats into it early on and he talked it up, too.

Tom

 

[Smorgass Bored]

I don't see Buddy Hall's name mentioned, but maybe I missed it.

 

[ironman]

A lot of great names have been mentioned and as I agree with most, I've felt that Eddie Kelly should have been one of the first. Ronnie told me that every time he gave Eddie 9-8, that either they broke even, or Eddie won. He further stated that every time they played even, Ronnie won, or they broke even.Another name that comes to my mind is Jack Cooney. He was cut fom the same cloth as Artie. He has snuck around this country for many years. P.S. ( VV did beat Ronnie in San Antonio two years ago. They played a race to four for $500 and VV won 4-3. I should know, I staked Ronnie!)

 

[fred bentivegna]

Cant find his pocket

Cant find his pocket

I don't see Buddy Hall's name mentioned, but maybe I missed it.

Buddy was one of the top 9ball and 10 ball players of all time, and while he has won a few one pocket tourneys, he needs a guide-dog to find his pocket. Check out accu-stat tape, Baton Rouge 1 pocket Legends tourn. Buddy against Marco Marcus. Buddy survives in 1 pocket tourns. because of a fantastic stroke system, concentration, doggedness and heart. When Artie asked him to play 1pocket at North Shore Billiards, he laughed and asked for 10 to 8.
Old school pool. Bank on, brother!
the Beard

 

[BackPocket9Ball]

From what I've heard, Buddy's one pocket game in the past 10 years has been a lot stronger than it was in the 70s and 80s. I think it might be a bit of an exaggeration to say that he needs a guide dog to find his pocket.

Check out the Accu-Stats tape from 1998 Legends Tournament semi-finals. Buddy steamrolls Efren.

 

[fred bentivegna]

My criteria is a little stricter

My criteria is a little stricter

From what I've heard, Buddy's one pocket game in the past 10 years has been a lot stronger than it was in the 70s and 80s. I think it might be a bit of an exaggeration to say that he needs a guide dog to find his pocket.

Check out the Accu-Stats tape from 1998 Legends Tournament semi-finals. Buddy steamrolls Efren.

When I say Buddy doesnt know the game, I am speaking of what he is able to do in difficult situations against someone of equal ability that does know the game. Running 8 and out or making give-up bank shots doesnt qualify with me as knowing the game. If you think that call is bad, I also think Nick Varner could use a guide-dog -- and he can rob Buddy playing 1pocket! Both these guys are close pals of mine so I can get away with the knock, but I still stand by my position. In truth, I give credit to only a few humans that really know the game. My guys could miss and still batter you!
Jersey Red, Artie, Clem, Camp, Jimmy Fusco, Cannonball Lefty, Bugs, Marvin Henderson, Corn Bread, Steve Cook, Cooney, Boston Shorty, Kelly, Grady etc., etc.
If you want to call me an elitist, you are probably right. Final point, I dont care for the way Efren plays the game -- because I taught him, and I sneakily inserted many bad habits into his game -- and he's the best player that ever lived!
Old school pool. Bank on brother!
the Beard

 

[eric.ewing]

All of you missed one...

All of you missed one...

What about Billy Incardona?? Everybody is far smarter in one pocket since he does 90+% of the commentary on the game. (He does that much probably because he likes the game, but more likely because he's a top notch commentator)

_____________________________

If the...

Selection criteria for the One Pocket Hall of Fame

1. Great Players who have demonstrated their excellence in tournament competition over time.
Didn't he compete and win a Johnson City (or Stardust) tournament in the 60s. (granted it was 9-ball, but since then he's learned one pocket and he still competes from time to time today in one-pocket, almost 40 years later)

2. After Hours Legends who have demonstrated their excellence and their heart by matching up against the best of their time.
As well as good money player, I hear he is a top notch bookmaker who 'rarely' makes bad bets.

3. Teachers and Promoters of the game who have had a lasting impact on the growth and popularity of One Pocket.
Other than Billy, I can only think of one other person, who is in the same orbit as far as commentating and instructing in the one pocket discipline (and it's Freddy B., not Danny D.) Most other commentary is way offbase. Like I said, everybody is alot smarter since he's done commentary.


______________________________

 

[fred bentivegna]

Billy the kid

Billy the kid

What about Billy Incardona?? Everybody is far smarter in one pocket since he does 90+% of the commentary on the game. (He does that much probably because he likes the game, but more likely because he's a top notch commentator)

_____________________________

If the...

Selection criteria for the One Pocket Hall of Fame

1. Great Players who have demonstrated their excellence in tournament competition over time.
Didn't he compete and win a Johnson City (or Stardust) tournament in the 60s. (granted it was 9-ball, but since then he's learned one pocket and he still competes from time to time today in one-pocket, almost 40 years later)

2. After Hours Legends who have demonstrated their excellence and their heart by matching up against the best of their time.
As well as good money player, I hear he is a top notch bookmaker who 'rarely' makes bad bets.

3. Teachers and Promoters of the game who have had a lasting impact on the growth and popularity of One Pocket.
Other than Billy, I can only think of one other person, who is in the same orbit as far as commentating and instructing in the one pocket discipline (and it's Freddy B., not Danny D.) Most other commentary is way offbase. Like I said, everybody is alot smarter since he's done commentary.


______________________________

You're probably right, Billy was overlooked. You may or may not know this, but at one point in the early 70s Billy was rated the number 1 nineball player in the country. (The list didnt include Lassiter or Worst. They were a separate category.) I probably left him out because we were such rivals for so long. We were always trying to take a bite out of each other. One thing is for sure, he could certainly beat Weenie Beenie.
Old school pool. Bank on, brother!
the Beard

 

[J.D. Dolan]

1PHOF nominations

1PHOF nominations

For players:

Steve Cook
Cliff Joyner
Shannon Daulton (probably the youngest 1p champion ever)
Jose Parica
Scott Frost

For those who helped the game:

Eddie Robin
Billy Incardona (could also be in prev. list)
Freddie "The Beard" Bentivegna (could also be in prev. list)

These guys should all be in there...and how about some of the game's early players:

Haydon Lingo (did he invent this damn game we love?)
Johnny "Irish" Lineen
"Connecticut Johnny" Vives

Forgive me if I got the spelling wrong on any of the names.

J.D.

 

[fred bentivegna]

How could I forget Cliff?

How could I forget Cliff?

For players:

Steve Cook
Cliff Joyner
Shannon Daulton (probably the youngest 1p champion ever)
Jose Parica
Scott Frost

how about some of the game's early players:

Haydon Lingo (did he invent this damn game we love?)
Johnny "Irish" Lineen
"Connecticut Johnny" Vives

J.D.

How could I have left out Cliff Joyner? Great creative, offensive player. (He still has big gaps in his game when it comes to protecting a lead. He only has one speed -- forward.) Cookie and Jose, of course. Shannon and Scott? They play good, but they're too young! They havent suffered enough.
Old school pool. Bank on, brother!
the Beard

 

[stevelomako]

Living:

Jose Parica
Jack Cooney
Eddie Kelly
Jimmy Fusco
Allen Hopkins
Artie Bodendorfer
Marshall Carpenter
James Walden
Cliff Joyner
Billy Cardone
Melvin Brooks
Cecil Tugwell



Deceased:

Steve Cook
Rags Fitzpatrick
Marvin Henderson
Minnesota Fats
Earl Heisler
Johnny Ervolino
Harold Worst
Joey Spaeth
Johnny Irish
Hayden Lingo
Larry Johnson
Marcel Camp
Danny Jones



These are guys for whatever reason I would sit and sweat playing.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

An excerpt from my upcoming book, The GosPool According To The Beard:

The most telling description regarding Ronnie Allen's One Pocket game came from top player, Bill Incardona, the voice of the Accu-Stat Pool Videos. When Bill was asked to rate Ronnie's game against Allen Hopkins of NJ, Billy gave this account: "I played Hopkins for $1000 a game in his basement in Jersey. He spotted me 10 to 8. Even though we were in his house, and he is a great player, his game is very conservative and predictable. I was totally comfortable and relaxed, and able to play my game, which allowed me to beat him. I later played Ronnie in Las Vegas, in my pool room, on my tables, for the same bet, and with the same spot, 10 to 8. The difference was when I played Ronnie, the whole time I felt like I was in a very hot oven. I never had a clue as to what Ronnie was going to do next. He was crashing balls and running out, and the cue ball was constantly flying around all over the table. I got to thinking the only safe place to leave the cue ball was in a bank vault."

Does that answer your question?
Old school pool. Bank on, brother!
the Beard

Bill,

Here's the original post by Fred. In post #19 he's responding to a question regarding Hopkins' stroke. This is from 9-28-2005.

Dennis

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

For players:

Steve Cook
Cliff Joyner
Shannon Daulton (probably the youngest 1p champion ever)
Jose Parica
Scott Frost

For those who helped the game:

Eddie Robin
Billy Incardona (could also be in prev. list)
Freddie "The Beard" Bentivegna (could also be in prev. list)
These guys should all be in there...and how about some of the game's early players:

Haydon Lingo (did he invent this damn game we love?)
Johnny "Irish" Lineen
"Connecticut Johnny" Vives

Forgive me if I got the spelling wrong on any of the names.

J.D.

Now there's an interesting nomination from six years ago. The earliest mention of Eddie Robin that I've seen (for HOF).

Dennis