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Owen vs. Chohan 2007 U.S. Open final

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Dudley View Post
    Agreed, But I wanted to add another shot to the conversation. If I thought I could make it I might take a swing at it. Getting lucky shooting the wrong shot is a skill I possess-> So I hear.

    Dud
    I gave my reasons, its not a good idea. At that point in the game, it is an unnecessary risk. Gabe needs one and Tony is a monster at making shots, getting out, plus he is very imaginative. I played him many times and just giving him a little shot turns out badly for me. Of course he has lost as many games shooting the same way. Of course if the two balls are not at Tonys side of the table close to his pocket, its different. I will be very happy to see him back on the scene again. You make your own luck Simon and firing is the only way yo get lucky. Your statement reminds me of Fhilpino Gene. ABC Always Be Closing but in pool its Always Be Cunning. No pool for me until after Jan 18, 2013. I'll meet you in church.
    Attached Files
    Coyotes, Eagles, and Deer, oh my!

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    • #32
      You don't understand my shot. I'm taking a foul, not kicking at the 5 or 10.

      I want the qb on the rail or very close to the 5 with the 5 blocking the 15. That seems better than the qb near the rt top corner.


      Originally posted by wincardona View Post
      If the intentional is taken where I suggested (top right corner close to the rail) Chohan has only two reasonable replies. He can possibly cross the 15ball to his side and bring the cue ball back up table to hopefully the top rail. Or he can shoot off the 5ball with a medium speed and send the 5ball to his side rail far enough up the rail not to leave a cross corner return bank for Gabe. Either one of his replies carries a penalty if not struck well. Plus there really isn't any production to speak of with either reply if hit well.

      With John's kick safety if not hit well you run the risk of selling out the straight back on the 15ball to either possibly win the game or improve your position (for Chohan) depending on how you prefer playing off the 15ball. In terms of the speed you hit it with. With John's kick safety you're probably a 65% favorite to strike the 5ball without fouling. However when you strike the 5ball you will allow Chohan to see the 15ball allowing him to dictate how the game will be played from there. If you miss the 5ball with John's kick you still may allow Chohan to see the 15ball, plus you lose a ball for fouling with the shot. Imo the best result you can get with the kick safety of John's is to miss the 5ball and "snooker" Chohan in back of the 5ball not allowing him to dictate how the game will be played.

      If my forecast is accurate I would rather lose a ball by taking the intentional to the top right corner, insuring that I will not be in trouble with my next shot, nor will I ever lose the game from that position. Taking the foul is the price you pay for the insurance of getting out of trouble, and remaining the favorite in the game.

      Kicking at the 5ball is a gamble. It could work out well for you, however, it could also cost you the game. Taking the intentional is playing a controlled game while being the favorite. Plus your destiny will always be in your hands with the intentional.

      Dr. Bill

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      • #33
        Okay, lads. Here's what Gabe did. I was shocked to see him cut the 15!! He's a good mover, and he'd tied Tony up for most of the match, so I about fell of my chair when he shot the cut.

        He looked at the layout for 3-4 minutes, then leaned over and rolled it. He over-cut the 15, and the CB kicked down to leave a beautiful layout for Tony, needing all three:

        Click image for larger version

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        Surprisingly, Tony did not get out! He shot the 5 ball in, then got a little high on the 14. So after making the 14 the CB banked up for shape on the 15-ball bank too long, so that it wasn't makeable. Then they both needed one. Gabe ended up screwing up another shot, allowing Tony to prevail in that game.

        My favorite shot from the original layout would be what a few of you have discussed: a relatively simple kick into the 5. If Tony went for the 15 and missed, which he undoubtedly would, then Gabe would have had much easier options than he had with the original layout:

        Click image for larger version

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        The commentators, John Schmidt and Shawn Putnam --who provided excellent commentary-- both liked the kick to the 5 ball. BTW, I also like the two-rail kick to the 5 ball, but that's a shot that's easier to screw up... ~Doc

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        • #34
          Originally posted by gulfportdoc View Post
          Okay, lads.
          BTW, I also like the two-rail kick to the 5 ball, but that's a shot that's easier to screw up... ~Doc
          i know that billy and sjd and the commentators of the match liked( or considered it as a REASONABLE option) the 2 rail kick to the 5
          if i knew how to do a poll i would do it here


          so come on guys
          all of you regulars that post be honest
          was that a shot you would have considered as realistic for you??
          and if you didnt see it
          would it still be a realistic shot for you???
          yes or no will do
          if there is a qualifier ok

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          • #35
            Thanks for posting this one up Doc. Your shot, also mentioned by others, is also the shot I like in this situation.

            Martin


            Originally posted by gulfportdoc View Post
            Okay, lads. Here's what Gabe did. I was shocked to see him cut the 15!! He's a good mover, and he'd tied Tony up for most of the match, so I about fell of my chair when he shot the cut.

            He looked at the layout for 3-4 minutes, then leaned over and rolled it. He over-cut the 15, and the CB kicked down to leave a beautiful layout for Tony, needing all three:

            [ATTACH]7265[/ATTACH]

            Surprisingly, Tony did not get out! He shot the 5 ball in, then got a little high on the 14. So after making the 14 the CB banked up for shape on the 15-ball bank too long, so that it wasn't makeable. Then they both needed one. Gabe ended up screwing up another shot, allowing Tony to prevail in that game.

            My favorite shot from the original layout would be what a few of you have discussed: a relatively simple kick into the 5. If Tony went for the 15 and missed, which he undoubtedly would, then Gabe would have had much easier options than he had with the original layout:

            [ATTACH]7264[/ATTACH]

            The commentators, John Schmidt and Shawn Putnam --who provided excellent commentary-- both liked the kick to the 5 ball. BTW, I also like the two-rail kick to the 5 ball, but that's a shot that's easier to screw up... ~Doc
            superiorcues.com

            Comment


            • #36
              no feminine hygiene products for gabe......surprised he missed it, especially that bad.

              lot of diverse opinions on this one with some excellent analysis....coming in behind them would have been pretty tough.

              thanks for putting it up.

              dustin "backcut" miller

              Comment


              • #37
                If your kicking one rail into the 5, I'll be jumping so fast to bank the 15 and send the qb three rails your head might spin

                Comment


                • #38
                  On the cut shot did the qb hit below the side pocket? I was wondering if top right would have sent the qb three rails not selling out an easy shot.

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                  • #39
                    Dr. Bill

                    Please refer to my post #28. I'm really lost here in this discussion. Thanks -
                    If it ain't funny, it ain't much.

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                    • #40
                      nice thought provoking layout doc
                      good job

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by gulfportdoc View Post
                        Here's the situation: Gabe has come back to win the first set (has to win two sets in true dbl elim) in the finals match. This is the second game of the second set, races to 4. Gabe has won the first game. Now in the second game Gabe needs one; Tony needs all three. This is a tricky situation. What would you do; and what do you think Gabe did? ~Doc

                        [ATTACH]7256[/ATTACH]
                        Just slightly cut the 15 with a 9 o'clock Spinner and land it on the bottom rail, cue will not have enough speed to get to the side pocket.
                        Bill Meacham
                        WBT
                        www.worldbilliardtour.com
                        no link....

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by jtompilot View Post
                          On the cut shot did the qb hit below the side pocket? I was wondering if top right would have sent the qb three rails not selling out an easy shot.
                          Yes, it hit the long rail below the side pocket. I think if he had hit it hard enough to go three rails he would have been in danger of a kiss, or of leaving the 15 in a sell-out position.

                          I'm sure in this case, Gabe mulled over all the options, then made a snap judgement to try to win the game right there. It was a dumb decision, but we all make them... He'd had control of the match until then, which tied them at 1-1.

                          BTW, Gabe went on to lose the set to Chohan after winning the first of the two matches. Whether he learned from that, it's hard to say, but he did go on to win the DCC 1P several months later.

                          Doc

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                          • #43
                            I would like to run into Gabe sometime in my travels. Looks like I'll be in L. A. after Thanksgiving. Think I'll try hard times this time.

                            I'm heading to New Orleans right now. Will be there for a week. Maybe we could meet in Slidell.

                            Originally posted by gulfportdoc View Post
                            Yes, it hit the long rail below the side pocket. I think if he had hit it hard enough to go three rails he would have been in danger of a kiss, or of leaving the 15 in a sell-out position.

                            I'm sure in this case, Gabe mulled over all the options, then made a snap judgement to try to win the game right there. It was a dumb decision, but we all make them... He'd had control of the match until then, which tied them at 1-1.

                            BTW, Gabe went on to lose the set to Chohan after winning the first of the two matches. Whether he learned from that, it's hard to say, but he did go on to win the DCC 1P several months later.

                            Doc

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                            • #44
                              .........................................
                              Last edited by Hungarian; 11-24-2012, 10:40 PM.

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